How do I avoid yield protection? (527 / 4.0)

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

princeofmediocrity

Full Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2024
Messages
22
Reaction score
17
Points
46
Hi everyone,

I am wondering about yield protection and to what extent that exists as well as to what extent I may be able to curtail it.

I am a VA resident with a 527 MCAT and 4.0 GPA. In many cases this puts me several MCAT points above the 90th percentile matriculant for schools I am applying to.

I have a pretty solid application otherwise (I think) with no red flags, solid ECs, great letters, the whole nine.

I am a bit worried about yield protection, especially at some of the state schools and "lower-tier schools" I am applying to. Examples include VCU, Iowa Carver, Cincinnati, Rochester, Hofstra, and Einstein. Is there any good way to avoid this?

I'm especially concerned about Einstein, not so much that they're "known" for yield protecting or whatnot but moreso I want to signal that they are one of my absolute top choices (due largely to the fact that they are $400-450k less expensive than many T20 private MDs when you factor in tuition+interest through residency).

I would really hate to get rejected/waitlisted there because someone doubted I would attend.

Same with the other programs I mentioned, even through it is true that in many cases I would attend a higher ranked program if finances were relatively comparable. I want to have options of course.

Anyways, if anyone has ideas about how I might avoid yield protection so I can make sure I attend a solid program (or Einstein especially, fingers crossed!), I would appreciate it.

Thanks again!
 
Is there any reason you would expect U VA not to admit you? Is Einstein less expensive that U VA for you as an in-state applicant? You've got your answer right there as to why Einstein might yield protect you. Would you pay full-tuition at Einstein if you also had a 50% tuition scholarship at Wash U in St. Louis? There's another reason to yield protect. The school that knows that it can't compete on price or prestige will yield protect itself when faced with a highly desirable candidate. Don't collect offers just to collect them. Apply to the 15 or 20 schools you will attend if offered a slot and be done with it.
 
Is there any reason you would expect U VA not to admit you? Is Einstein less expensive that U VA for you as an in-state applicant? You've got your answer right there as to why Einstein might yield protect you. Would you pay full-tuition at Einstein if you also had a 50% tuition scholarship at Wash U in St. Louis? There's another reason to yield protect. The school that knows that it can't compete on price or prestige will yield protect itself when faced with a highly desirable candidate. Don't collect offers just to collect them. Apply to the 15 or 20 schools you will attend if offered a slot and be done with it.
Not particularly, I think I have an excellent chance at UVA, but Einstein is tuition free now, so it is way less expensive than UVA for me. To the tune of ~215k plus interest for however many years. Barring a large merit scholarship at UVA or elsewhere, I'd attend Einstein.

I'm not really interested in super competitive (or well-paid) specialties and will need to pay full sticker anywhere I go, so cost will be a big factor for me. WashU 50% tuition would be an interesting question though, since a powerhouse like that would have some advantages in terms of clinical training, research, and other opportunities.
 
Wash U is pretty well known for offering big scholarships (sometimes 100%) to high MCAT applicants. I had forgotten about the big gift to Einstein. You'll be in line with every other 4.0/524 and you'll need to really make the case for WHY Einstein in keeping with their mission etc. If you had that free ride and Wash U's, or NYU, or wherever else, how would you choose?
 
Wash U is pretty well known for offering big scholarships (sometimes 100%) to high MCAT applicants. I had forgotten about the big gift to Einstein. You'll be in line with every other 4.0/524 and you'll need to really make the case for WHY Einstein in keeping with their mission etc. If you had that free ride and Wash U's, or NYU, or wherever else, how would you choose?
Fair enough. I would certainly choose NYU or WashU, to your point. However, such offers are of course far from guaranteed.

I also do have some mission fit with Einstein due to their location, focus, and clinical population especially in my areas of interest. I will be sure to highlight this point in interviews, and also if their secondaries provide a "Why Einstein" or the like.

Thank you very much for your advice!
 
Previously

Your in-state programs should not exclude you due to yield protection. However, they could exclude you if your profile clearly doesn't fit with their mission and offerings. They can make the call because of their experience with other applicants with a similar profile as yours.

Again, you need 250 hours of service orientation experience MINIMUM to keep pace with other applicants with your metrics. Your mission fit with a place like Einstein isn't just about where you have lived... your actions and history must back your vision.
 
Hi everyone,

I am wondering about yield protection and to what extent that exists as well as to what extent I may be able to curtail it.

I am a VA resident with a 527 MCAT and 4.0 GPA. In many cases this puts me several MCAT points above the 90th percentile matriculant for schools I am applying to.

I have a pretty solid application otherwise (I think) with no red flags, solid ECs, great letters, the whole nine.

I am a bit worried about yield protection, especially at some of the state schools and "lower-tier schools" I am applying to. Examples include VCU, Iowa Carver, Cincinnati, Rochester, Hofstra, and Einstein. Is there any good way to avoid this?

I'm especially concerned about Einstein, not so much that they're "known" for yield protecting or whatnot but moreso I want to signal that they are one of my absolute top choices (due largely to the fact that they are $400-450k less expensive than many T20 private MDs when you factor in tuition+interest through residency).

I would really hate to get rejected/waitlisted there because someone doubted I would attend.

Same with the other programs I mentioned, even through it is true that in many cases I would attend a higher ranked program if finances were relatively comparable. I want to have options of course.

Anyways, if anyone has ideas about how I might avoid yield protection so I can make sure I attend a solid program (or Einstein especially, fingers crossed!), I would appreciate it.

Thanks again!
None of those schools will resource protect you.
 
None of those schools will resource protect you.
I think you were wrong about this. I've received several T20 interviews yet have been rejected from Hofstra and Iowa. At this point, none of those other schools I mentioned being worried about have interviewed me except VCU, where I was accepted (in state so makes sense).

There may be some aspect of mission fit in play (especially for Einstein), but do you really believe there was NO aspect of "resource protection" at some of these more upper-mid tier MD schools explaining why none of them offered me an interview?

How am to believe that I am not only qualified for, but "good enough" to be interviewed at e.g. T5 ivies yet Hofstra doesn't think I'm worth the time to interview for reasons totally separate from yield protection?

To be fair, their resource protection (which I absolutely believe is in play here) does seem to be logical considering how things have shaken out, but I don't think your analysis was correct overall.
 
I think you were wrong about this. I've received several T20 interviews yet have been rejected from Hofstra and Iowa. At this point, none of those other schools I mentioned being worried about have interviewed me except VCU, where I was accepted (in state so makes sense).

There may be some aspect of mission fit in play (especially for Einstein), but do you really believe there was NO aspect of "resource protection" at some of these more upper-mid tier MD schools explaining why none of them offered me an interview?

How am to believe that I am not only qualified for, but "good enough" to be interviewed at e.g. T5 ivies yet Hofstra doesn't think I'm worth the time to interview for reasons totally separate from yield protection?

To be fair, their resource protection (which I absolutely believe is in play here) does seem to be logical considering how things have shaken out, but I don't think your analysis was correct overall.
I cannot assess a case in point. Perhaps you did not fully explain why you were a good fit for those schools.
 
I cannot assess a case in point. Perhaps you did not fully explain why you were a good fit for those schools.
Yeah, I really don't think so. I definitely made strong cases for every school I applied to with my secondaries, lest I light application money on fire. Even more so for these places where I was (evidently) worried they might not take my app seriously. I made my writing good.

I'm not on their adcoms obviously, but it seems like a very unlikely coincidence.
 
Do you have any offers from schools you'd rather attend than Hofstra or Iowa? If so, they guessed right in deciding not to interview you because you'd end up going elsewhere.
 
Do you have any offers from schools you'd rather attend than Hofstra or Iowa? If so, they guessed right in deciding not to interview you because you'd end up going elsewhere.
Yes, I do, which I'm for one thing very happy about and is also what I was sort of alluding to here:

"To be fair, their resource protection (which I absolutely believe is in play here) does seem to be logical considering how things have shaken out"

They did guess right, and so I'm not upset about it.

My point was that even schools with high average stats might do this sort of "yield protect" thing and do I think it happened in my case, which I thought was worth mentioning to Goro in case this data point may affect future judgements or advice to other students who come after me.
 
I think you were wrong about this. I've received several T20 interviews yet have been rejected from Hofstra and Iowa.
Iowa literally just passed a law to increase the amount of applicants with in state roots they accept to be at least 80%. There’s a lot more to research before claiming “yield protection”. Did you address how you would help to address healthcare needs in Iowa and stay to practice? Because that’s where those other 20% of students get in from.

You also mentioned previously you had “some mission fit” with Einstein, but some doesn’t get you an interview everywhere even with your incredible stats. If you don’t fit their mission, that also plays into their “yield protection”. For example, say you stress research in your application but apply to a low tier service school. You wouldn’t be happy at their program, so why should they offer you a spot when they know that?
 
Yeah, I really don't think so. I definitely made strong cases for every school I applied to with my secondaries, lest I light application money on fire. Even more so for these places where I was (evidently) worried they might not take my app seriously. I made my writing good.

I'm not on their adcoms obviously, but it seems like a very unlikely coincidence.
I might be reading too much into this, but I'm generally getting a weird attitude vibe. You came to ask for help and are arguing with people who have years of experience on adcoms.

Perhaps that is coming across in your application in ways you don't realize.
 
I think you were wrong about this. I've received several T20 interviews yet have been rejected from Hofstra and Iowa. At this point, none of those other schools I mentioned being worried about have interviewed me except VCU, where I was accepted (in state so makes sense).

There may be some aspect of mission fit in play (especially for Einstein), but do you really believe there was NO aspect of "resource protection" at some of these more upper-mid tier MD schools explaining why none of them offered me an interview?

How am to believe that I am not only qualified for, but "good enough" to be interviewed at e.g. T5 ivies yet Hofstra doesn't think I'm worth the time to interview for reasons totally separate from yield protection?

To be fair, their resource protection (which I absolutely believe is in play here) does seem to be logical considering how things have shaken out, but I don't think your analysis was correct overall.
At this point, does it even really matter? You got into VCU, which you have in-state tuition. If you get into WashU, you have very good odds at getting a full ride. I do agree with your desire to interview with Einstein because of cost. However, there are a lot of people in your stat range that want too as well. Fit will matter more than anything else. You have to get in line with all the other 4.0/52X applicants.

Tuition will be high for nearly all programs, but it's the cost that our generation must bear for this journey. BUT, it will all pay itself off in the end. Don't fret over things like this and enjoy your acceptance future doctor.
 
I might be reading too much into this, but I'm generally getting a weird attitude vibe. You came to ask for help and are arguing with people who have years of experience on adcoms.

Perhaps that is coming across in your application in ways you don't realize.
I'm not trying to be argumentative here; I originally made this post months ago.

In retrospect, it seemed to me that one of the judgements of an experienced adcom was incorrect, and I wanted to let him know not out of personal spite or anything of the sort but rather so I could give an accurate idea of what might be the case for future students in certain situations such as this one.

I don't know, I feel like yield protection is a thing which I could never get a solid idea about (which is why I ultimately made this post looking for advice). Some sources say it happens, some others say it doesn't, and there's little consistent or reliable information pertaining to whom it happens to, at what schools it might occur, etc.

It could be useful information to know for students crafting a school list because I really had no idea which ones to add and where to avoid based on this. Again, it didn't end up mattering in my case but that's not to say it couldn't've.

Maybe it'd be useful information and I'm just trying to give associated context to make clear how unlikely I think it is that yield protection wasn't in play in this case. Of course, there are always a ton of factors involved and I can't be totally sure as to what's what, but yeah.

Tone doesn't travel particularly well on online forums, so I can definitely see how my attempt at providing as much clarity to the situation as possible here comes off as having an attitude but...well I didn't mean it to lol. Just trying to emphasize my point.
 
I don't know, I feel like yield protection is a thing which I could never get a solid idea about (which is why I ultimately made this post looking for advice). Some sources say it happens, some others say it doesn't, and there's little consistent or reliable information pertaining to whom it happens to, at what schools it might occur, etc.
The phrase "yield protection" confuses the issue.

A very basic question to ask for each applicant is "Would this person actually come here?" It's not unreasonable to pass on a given candidate if the answer appears to be "Not a snowball's chance in Hell."

But nobody in admissions offices actually sits around talking about protecting their "yield." On the contrary, the general understanding is that it's really about conserving resources. There is limited manpower to screen applications, offer invitations, organize and run interview days, aggregate feedback, staff and run committee meetings, implement second look events, manage all the back-end functions (financial aid, health records, etc.), and so on. Best not to waste time on randos, even if they have perfect metrics.

At the end of each cycle, the admissions dean has to present the statistics on the new class to the dean dean, and prove that they filled every spot with a sufficiently diverse and highly qualified group of people (while still having a buffer of acceptable candidates on the waitlist). Do this well and everyone is happy. Do it badly and you might be looking for a new job.
 
Even applicants with perfect stats do not necessarily get II's to most or all of the schools they apply to. And applying to only the top 20 runs a legitimate risk.
 
The phrase "yield protection" confuses the issue.

A very basic question to ask for each applicant is "Would this person actually come here?" It's not unreasonable to pass on a given candidate if the answer appears to be "Not a snowball's chance in Hell."

But nobody in admissions offices actually sits around talking about protecting their "yield." On the contrary, the general understanding is that it's really about conserving resources.
OK, so let's call it 'resource protection'. How would an applicant not get filtered out due to something like this? I live in a city with 4 schools - 3 MD and 1 DO. While I would indeed prefer the MD schools over the DO school, I would go to that DO school over the other 18 schools I applied to just because it's local to me and that's a very important factor for me. So how would I make sure the DO school would not filter me out because they think there is 'not a snowball's chance in Hell' that I would go there, when I would absolutely go.
 
OK, so let's call it 'resource protection'. How would an applicant not get filtered out due to something like this? I live in a city with 4 schools - 3 MD and 1 DO. While I would indeed prefer the MD schools over the DO school, I would go to that DO school over the other 18 schools I applied to just because it's local to me and that's a very important factor for me. So how would I make sure the DO school would not filter me out because they think there is 'not a snowball's chance in Hell' that I would go there, when I would absolutely go.
This is somewhat different as DO schools charge a deposit, so they still will benefit even if someone turns them down later on down the line. TMDSAS's DO schools are a different circumstance as well since those are pretty much TX applicants applying to largely only TX schools.
 
I recently interviewed an applicant with GPA 4.0 and MCAT 528, then one with 4.0 and 527. They both had stellar ECs, literally world class ECs (can't be more specific to discuss). Neither of them made it through the interviews to be considered. It definitely was not yield protection.
Yes of course, poor interview performance definitely leads to rejection no matter who you are or what your test scores may be; I was more referring to yield protection (or "resource protection" as it has been more accurately, though less commonly, described) at the level of pre-II screening. That is, "hey, do we really think this student would matriculate here? If chances are quite low, let's not waste the time to interview them."

I guess I used the term "yield protection" because I thought others would be more likely to recognize it.

It wouldn't make much sense to go through the trouble and interview someone only to later reject them for yield concerns.
I guess that would be yield protection as the term is often defined because it would affect yield, but I do understand that it's much more about not giving someone an interview because faculty time is valuable, rather than obsession with post-II matriculation rate. Hence "resource protection."

Any mention of "yield protection" affecting a post-interview decision is, IMO, a serious cope.

As chilly_md described, applying only to the top 20 schools or whatever is a bad plan, so it is generally advisable to not do that. There is just such a significant element of randomness in the process on an individual applicant level, and many of us have heard of the "horror stories".

Wanting to not put all my eggs in the top-schools basket (because at the end of the day who really cares, prestige is just extra) was the principal reason I had concerns about resource protection initially, hence this original post which I have revisited.
 
OK, so let's call it 'resource protection'. How would an applicant not get filtered out due to something like this? I live in a city with 4 schools - 3 MD and 1 DO. While I would indeed prefer the MD schools over the DO school, I would go to that DO school over the other 18 schools I applied to just because it's local to me and that's a very important factor for me. So how would I make sure the DO school would not filter me out because they think there is 'not a snowball's chance in Hell' that I would go there, when I would absolutely go.
Your in-state programs will not yield/resource/whatever protect
 
Your in-state programs will not yield/resource/whatever protect
OK. But then I'm just trying to understand what happened for me. I live in Houston. I got interviews at Baylor and Texas A&M. But I got a pre-II R from Sam Houston DO. I've worked and volunteered in rural and other under served communities. I felt like I had a good mission fit. But I'm not sure why they wouldn't even interview me. My first thought was maybe they didn't think I would ever go there but I certainly would.
 
OK. But then I'm just trying to understand what happened for me. I live in Houston. I got interviews at Baylor and Texas A&M. But I got a pre-II R from Sam Houston DO. I've worked and volunteered in rural and other under served communities. I felt like I had a good mission fit. But I'm not sure why they wouldn't even interview me. My first thought was maybe they didn't think I would ever go there but I certainly would.
What are your metrics?
 
Thought I would make an open solicitation to apply to USF, too. I take it that they are clamoring for someone of your merit. Have you heard they're the #1 medical school in the country?

1764191944615.png


Fun Love GIF by Kool Aid


(Festive Kool-Aid! Bonus points!)
 
OK. But then I'm just trying to understand what happened for me. I live in Houston. I got interviews at Baylor and Texas A&M. But I got a pre-II R from Sam Houston DO. I've worked and volunteered in rural and other under served communities. I felt like I had a good mission fit. But I'm not sure why they wouldn't even interview me. My first thought was maybe they didn't think I would ever go there but I certainly would.
Any individual school has to pass up on perfectly good candidates. If you had extenuating circumstances requiring you to be in the area, that could have been helpful to mention in the secondary. But otherwise, it is just something that happens.
 
I recently interviewed an applicant with GPA 4.0 and MCAT 528, then one with 4.0 and 527. They both had stellar ECs, literally world class ECs (can't be more specific to discuss). Neither of them made it through the interviews to be considered. It definitely was not yield protection.
Yield protection (I do like the term "resource protection") is more pertinent in giving interview invites than making offers. The offer costs almost nothing to make in terms of time and money. An interview, on the other hand, is a very limited resource where a school knows that they have room to interview x applicants/day for y days/cycle and they are really limited to no more than x*y interview invites.

When we "spend" an interview slot on an applicant who looks good on paper, there is sometimes as high as a 50-50 chance that they will be a dud when interviewed and either get a deep waitlist spot or a straight up rejection. It is hard to tell on paper that someone will have the personality of seal snot (just learned today that that's the transliteration of the Irish word for jellyfish).
 
Last edited:
OK. But then I'm just trying to understand what happened for me. I live in Houston. I got interviews at Baylor and Texas A&M. But I got a pre-II R from Sam Houston DO. I've worked and volunteered in rural and other under served communities. I felt like I had a good mission fit. But I'm not sure why they wouldn't even interview me. My first thought was maybe they didn't think I would ever go there but I certainly would.
Then I would conclude you didn't sufficiently convince them of this when you wrote your Sam Houston essays.
Dwell on the schools in your future and not on the ones that got away.
 
What are your metrics?
3.6 cGPA, 3.9 sGPA, 521 MCAT

120 hours shadowing
750 hours rural clinical
500 hours volunteering
60 hours research

My research is one of my weakest points but I don't think it matters as much for DO schools (and Baylor did interview me). I think not having a DO shadow probably hurt me more.
 
Then I would conclude you didn't sufficiently convince them of this when you wrote your Sam Houston essays.
Dwell on the schools in your future and not on the ones that got away.
Fair enough. I would have thought that applying and writing secondaries would be proof enough that I want to go there but I guess I would have to find a better way to emphasize it without sounding demeaning.

As for focusing on schools in my future, yeah, I understand. I did get 3 interviews and that gives me a good shot of getting an A this year. But being neurotic as everyone else in the cycle, I'm already thinking about reapplying for the next cycle and trying to understand what I need to do better.
 
3.6 cGPA, 3.9 sGPA, 521 MCAT

120 hours shadowing
750 hours rural clinical
500 hours volunteering
60 hours research

My research is one of my weakest points but I don't think it matters as much for DO schools (and Baylor did interview me). I think not having a DO shadow probably hurt me more.
Your MCAT is 15 points above their average. They would be foolish to burn an interview slot on you.
 
OK, so let's call it 'resource protection'. How would an applicant not get filtered out due to something like this? I live in a city with 4 schools - 3 MD and 1 DO. While I would indeed prefer the MD schools over the DO school, I would go to that DO school over the other 18 schools I applied to just because it's local to me and that's a very important factor for me. So how would I make sure the DO school would not filter me out because they think there is 'not a snowball's chance in Hell' that I would go there, when I would absolutely go.
DO schools typically don't practice resource protection, or, at least at mine we don't. And we have interviewed people with Harvard/Stanford class stats.

You can increase your odds of acceptance by shadowing a DO, and being able to articulate why you want to be a DO without using the cliches, and why you're a good fit for the school, and vice-versa.
 
Last edited:
OP: Don't you have an IS A?

Yes yes lol I actually have a couple now so this isn't a big deal to me at this point, this was just something I noticed with these other schools and looked a lot like resource protection to me, even from places with high stats, which was something I wasn't sure would happen.

Irrelevant to where I will go at this point (so the institutional strategy does seem logical) but something I noticed nonetheless.
 
Your MCAT is 15 points above their average. They would be foolish to burn an interview slot on you.
Well, I guess this is what people call yield protection/resource protection, right? And this thread is all about how do I avoid that thought process from the school's adcom. How do I make sure it doesn't seem 'foolish' to them?

Because I think I have that awkward tweener stats level. My MCAT is higher than the median for all of the TMDSAS schools. But my GPA is also lower than the TMDSAS average of 3.85 or whatever. So I don't cleanly fit into any school's stats.
 
Well, I guess this is what people call yield protection/resource protection, right? And this thread is all about how do I avoid that thought process from the school's adcom. How do I make sure it doesn't seem 'foolish' to them?

Because I think I have that awkward tweener stats level. My MCAT is higher than the median for all of the TMDSAS schools. But my GPA is also lower than the TMDSAS average of 3.85 or whatever. So I don't cleanly fit into any school's stats.
This is where you tell them you're a fit for their school. Usually accomplished in the secondaries. They'll ask questions like "Anything else you want to add?" or "Why us?", this is where you can avoid resource protection by telling them exactly why, despite your stats, you would actually attend.
 
This is where you tell them you're a fit for their school. Usually accomplished in the secondaries. They'll ask questions like "Anything else you want to add?" or "Why us?", this is where you can avoid resource protection by telling them exactly why, despite your stats, you would actually attend.
Networking before applying also helps.
 
Well, I guess this is what people call yield protection/resource protection, right? And this thread is all about how do I avoid that thought process from the school's adcom. How do I make sure it doesn't seem 'foolish' to them?

Because I think I have that awkward tweener stats level. My MCAT is higher than the median for all of the TMDSAS schools. But my GPA is also lower than the TMDSAS average of 3.85 or whatever. So I don't cleanly fit into any school's stats.
I don’t think any MD school in Texas is going to pass on you because your MCAT is too high for them.

The thing about yield/resource protection is that you can’t avoid it unless you have a genuine reason to select a school that otherwise doesn’t seem like an obvious fit. If you would rather die than leave the Houston area then contact Sam Houston and appeal their pre-II rejection (but shadow a DO first).
 
Did I not post this yet? I guess not.


Also
 
DO schools typically don't practice resource protection, or, at least at mine we don't. And we have interviewed people with Harvard/Stanford class stats.

You can increase your odds of acceptance by shadowing a DO, and being able to articulate why you want to be a DO without using the cliches, and why you're a good fit for the school, and vice-versa.
In this case, would a DO letter of rec also help increase odds of acceptance.
 
Top Bottom