How do I make a School List???

[saj000]

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I just took the MCAT and I need help in creating a school list for me. I see a lot of people asking about the lists, but how do I even create a possible list to begin with. I want to apply to certain schools, but I'm not sure if they are too out of reach.

How do I know what average MCAT each school takes?
What would be a reach school (+2 +3 ...on their MCAT average?)
How do I know which schools are OOS friendly?
Any criteria to eliminate or put schools on your list?

Any other suggestions when making a school list would be greatly apreciated.

Also, are services like MedEdit worth getting? Are there any services out there that are better or cheaper?

I didn't do as well on the MCAT as I wanted, but just trying to get my application reviewed in the best possible way to boost my chances.

 

[toffee_bloom]

Invest in the MSAR - Medical School Admission Requirements through the aamc and they will have all of this information and more! How I started was with my state schools and then branched out into places that I could see myself going to med school in. Then I went further by choosing schools based off their median MCAT scores and GPAs of their incoming classes. Reach schools are ones whose stats are above yours, usually the top 20 schools and such, match schools are working your range, and safety schools have lower stats. This stuff is based off the numbers, but just remember things like your PS, LOR, ECs and your interview factors in too.

 

[saj000]

Does the MSAR have somewhere I input my info to tell me what are reach and match schools?

 

[toffee_bloom]

I think maybe you can filter through schools based off of GPA and MCAT scores but I might be thinking of something else! I made an excel spreadsheet that listed all of the schools I'm going to apply to along with their stats so I can have it all in one place.

 

[saj000]

Ok thanks. I'll get that tonight and take a look at it. My GPA is subpar since I wasn't a bio major and was in engineering. How many points higher than a school's MCAT average would you consider to be a reach? or match?

 

[HCHopeful]

LizzyM score. You take your (GPA*10) + MCAT. Then you find the median GPA's and MCAT scores for medical schools on MSAR, find their average LizzyM score, and make a list according to which are closest to your LizzyM.

This is an easy way to offset the GPA and MCAT when wondering which to put more weight on. For instance, a 3.6 GPA and a 33 MCAT = 69 LizzyM. In that case, it would be best to find schools that have a LizzyM around 69, give or take a few points. Obviously lower than that would be a go, but higher than that would be a reach (especially anything 2-3+ out of your range).

 

[Spinach Dip]

Remember to take state residency into account.

Some schools only accept ~1:300 out of state applicants, so applying to them is a longshot unless your stats are significantly above their averages.

 

[saj000]

sorry if I'm not familiar, but what is a LizzyM score?

Will the MSAR have the schools that are not OOS friendly?

I'm from Hawaii so there's only one in state option for me....

 

[HCHopeful]

I just explained the LizzyM score. It's GPA*10 + MCAT. It's simply a way of finding schools close to you stats wise using both measures instead of trying to guess just with one or the other.

 

[saj000]

Sorry I misread the post earlier. Thanks for the help. I'll get the MSAR when I get home and compare the scores. Should I limit myself to 1 or 2 schools that have a LizzyM score 4 points higher, or is that unrealistic to even try

 

[Inventor of Post-Its]

Sorry I misread the post earlier. Thanks for the help. I'll get the MSAR when I get home and compare the scores. Should I limit myself to 1 or 2 schools that have a LizzyM score 4 points higher, or is that unrealistic to even try

The MSAR also gives the 10th and 90th percentile GPA and MCAT score, so you'll have an idea of the range of scores the school accepts. But just keep in mind that the students in the 10th percentile probably strengthened their application in other ways - extensive research experience, volunteering, interesting life circumstances, etc.

 

[rachel993]

+1 to MSAR. also, this may be slightly outdated, but here is a link to the LizzyM spreadsheet google doc. on one of the tabs at the bottom, you can enter in your stats and it will categorize each school as "long shot" "reach" "go for it" or "hopeful" based on your numbers

http://is.gd/sdn_med_matriculant_data

 

[HCHopeful]

That sheet is gold if you go back and re-enter the up-to-date data for the schools you may be interested in. Otherwise it's an outdated piece of paper.

 

[rachel993]

That sheet is gold if you go back and re-enter the up-to-date data for the schools you may be interested in. Otherwise it's an outdated piece of paper.

agreed. I used it this cycle but pretty much just as a gauge, and kind of self-corrected the results (AKA if a school I was interested in said "hopeful" i would go and actually compare to MSAR and then often took the "hopeful" as more of a "go for it". i've been hoping someone would take on the task of updating the whole thing (I've also read talk about changing the actual LizzyM calculation too).

 

[HCHopeful]

agreed. I used it this cycle but pretty much just as a gauge, and kind of self-corrected the results (AKA if a school I was interested in said "hopeful" i would go and actually compare to MSAR and then often took the "hopeful" as more of a "go for it". i've been hoping someone would take on the task of updating the whole thing (I've also read talk about changing the actual LizzyM calculation too).

Yeah, the score has already been changed once. It was (GPA*10 + MCAT) - 1. The -1 has since been taken off.

It will undoubtedly have to be corrected for with the new MCAT score.

 

[mehc012]

That sheet is gold if you go back and re-enter the up-to-date data for the schools you may be interested in. Otherwise it's an outdated piece of paper.

I've been updating as I go for schools I'm interested in. For the most part, the changes have been minimal. Then again, I believe my version is only couple of years out of date to begin with (it's the version SDN won't let be posted).

PS. No, I don't feel guilty using it, as I have purchased both the MSAR and the USNWR access separately. It's not my fault that neither organization can provide as useful a format as a simple Excel document! I went through and edited mine to color code both the IS% and the LizzyM column by color (LizzyM column in a gradient from red=reach to green=my score is well above the school's, IS also in a gradient, but taking my home state into account). Now I just sort the two columns and look for green/green side by side!

 

[HCHopeful]

I've been updating as I go for schools I'm interested in. For the most part, the changes have been minimal. Then again, I believe my version is only couple of years out of date to begin with (it's the version SDN won't let be posted).

The one I have is from 2012, so it's not extremely outdated. The numbers are still slightly different, though.

As long as you change the necessary information, it's quite beneficial.

 

[mehc012]

The one I have is from 2012, so it's not extremely outdated. The numbers are still slightly different, though.

As long as you change the necessary information, it's quite beneficial.

I'm usually pulling from USNWR, and thus far none of the changes have even come close to affecting whether any school is a reach vs good chance, etc. Since that's the main value of the chart, I don't see that the updates are even remotely consequential. Usually the difference isn't even great enough to be seen with the sort of rounding USNWR applies.

What DOES change a lot is the IS%, though, because the spreadsheet was based on MSAR, which doesn't have accepted stats (just interviewees and matriculants), but the USNWR does. That changes things a TON.

 

[HCHopeful]

I'm usually pulling from USNWR, and thus far none of the changes have even come close to affecting whether any school is a reach vs good chance, etc. Since that's the main value of the chart, I don't see that the changes are even remotely consequential.

What DOES change a lot is the IS%, though, because the spreadsheet was based on MSAR, which doesn't have accepted stats (just interviewees and matriculants), but the USNWR does. That changes things a TON.

Well, I don't know if it's because you're looking at higher tier schools than I am or if it's USNWR, but every school I've checked I've had to adjust. Usually by 1-2 MCAT points and .1-.2 GPA. I've had several that have changed. Interesting!

 

[mehc012]

Well, I don't know if it's because you're looking at higher tier schools than I am or if it's USNWR, but every school I've checked I've had to adjust. Usually by 1-2 MCAT points and .1-.2 GPA. I've had several that have changed. Interesting!

Haha, I'm definitely not looking at higher tier schools than you are.

 

[medic86]

Should someone who has a significantly higher sGPA than cGPA adjust their LizzyM score to compensate? Or does it not really matter, given that the weight it's given will likely vary from school to school?

 

[HCHopeful]

Should someone who has a significantly higher sGPA than cGPA adjust their LizzyM score to compensate? Or does it not really matter, given that the weight it's given will likely vary from school to school?

I've never heard of someone putting their sGPA above their cGPA for the LizzyM. Especially considering you can't get the sGPA stats :/

 

[medic86]

I've never heard of someone putting their sGPA above their cGPA for the LizzyM. Especially considering you can't get the sGPA stats :/

I just mean ballparking a correction vs. outright replacement. 😛

My sGPA is a solid 0.3 points higher than my cGPA.

 

[HCHopeful]

I just mean ballparking a correction vs. outright replacement. 😛

My sGPA is a solid 0.3 points higher than my cGPA.

Erm. Personally, I would say no, but I am far from an authority on this topic.

 

[efle]

How the hell does LizzyM scoring work well at all? High GPAs are way way way more common than high mcats at most universities, so a 3.5 40 should be much rarer and more beneficial than a 4.0 35

 

[mehc012]

How the hell does LizzyM scoring work well at all? High GPAs are way way way more common than high mcats at most universities, so a 3.5 40 should be much rarer and more beneficial than a 4.0 35

You'd think so, but if you look at the stats graphs thread, you see the opposite effect, at least for the set you mentioned.
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...e-who-applied-with-your-cgpa-and-mcat.888650/

Then again, you picked the best gpa, and an above-average MCAT vs an average gpa and (we'll just lump 40+ together) the best MCAT, so Or maybe it's just that 'well, most people have a good gpa, so if you're missing that you're actively deficient, but a bit more range is expected on the MCAT'. I dunno.
It's not an exact science, that's for sure, but I suppose it gets you in the ballpark. Unless you're really skewed, your LizzyM matches should get you a good set of schools/reaches/good chances to pick among. You have to use more exact measures to pare down that initial set, though.

 

[efle]

You'd think so, but if you look at the stats graphs thread, you see the opposite effect, at least for the set you mentioned.
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...e-who-applied-with-your-cgpa-and-mcat.888650/

Then again, you picked the best gpa, and an above-average MCAT vs an average gpa and (we'll just lump 40+ together) the best MCAT, so Or maybe it's just that 'well, most people have a good gpa, so if you're missing that you're actively deficient, but a bit more range is expected on the MCAT'. I dunno.
It's not an exact science, that's for sure, but I suppose it gets you in the ballpark. Unless you're really skewed.

Interesting that the 3.8-4, 33-35 apps do better in Table 24 than the 3.4-59, 39+ apps despite the higher rarity of the MCATs - I wonder if that's because the former group is better organized/motived during the app process than the latter group of lazy geniuses.

your LizzyM matches should get you a good set of schools/reaches/good chances to pick among. You have to use more exact measures to pare down that initial set, though

Too bad at LizzyM >80 it turns into: no reaches/schools with similar stats where you still have slim odds because they're so freaking selective/good chance you'll get rejected because of y̶i̶e̶l̶d̶ ̶p̶r̶o̶t̶e̶c̶t̶i̶o̶n̶ "resource management".

 

[mehc012]

Too bad at LizzyM >80 it turns into: no reaches/schools with similar stats where you still have slim odds because they're so freaking selective/good chance you'll get rejected because of y̶i̶e̶l̶d̶ ̶p̶r̶o̶t̶e̶c̶t̶i̶o̶n̶ "resource management".

Good thing I tanked my gpa, then, so my MCAT didn't destroy my chances

 

[efle]

Good thing I tanked my gpa, then, so my MCAT didn't destroy my chances

You can be just like mimelim!

 

[mehc012]

You can be just like mimelim!

Oh man, I wish! I need more than 4hrs of sleep per night, though, sadly. I mean, I can go with none for a few days, but I've got to make up the deficit somewhere!

 

[efle]

Oh man, I wish! I need more than 4hrs of sleep per night, though, sadly. I mean, I can go with none for a few days, but I've got to make up the deficit somewhere!

I've started taking micronaps during brief periods of unavoidable time-wasting activities, like driving, and walking down stairs. Step up your game, gunnerette

 

[mehc012]

I've started taking micronaps during brief periods of unavoidable time-wasting activities, like driving, and walking down stairs. Step up your game, gunnerette

Ah, but see, my gunning was convincing you to nap while driving. Once you're out of the picture, less competition for me!