How do I make as much money as possible?

[sotto voce]

---

Members do not see this ad.

I have some advice that is a bit more practical than inventing a revolutionary new drug or a game-changing medical device. We all know that the money, regardless of specialty, will be there. So live frugally, save up, and purchase a rental property in an area preferred by renters (near a college campus, for example). Use the income from this property to make payments on a second rental property that you purchase. Continue until you have a handful of properties. Have a property management company manage the properties--you don't have time to unclog toilets and kick out bad tenants. In a college town or neighborhood, you can easily charge $1500 - $2000 per month for a large rental house. If you can only buy a two-bedroom home, that's fine; just "finish" the basement or convert it to a second unit. Either way, you double the number of rooms to lease out.

The trick is to save up so you can buy the first property outright, in cash. This sounds hard, but you can easily find a run-down rental for ~$150,000. The income from that property pays the mortgage of the second, and so on. There is a lot of money to be made this way, especially in a college town.

Good luck.

 

[CaptainSSO]

Easy, captain. I didn't want to limit the ideas. This is a forum, isn't it? But yes secretly I am trying to gather ethically corrupt ideas to maximize profits once I don't match into neurosurgery.

If this is purely an intellectual curiosity I understand, but I assumed since you were asking you had a dog in the fight, so to speak.

 

[cookiecutting]

I guess this question kind of boils down to: what do you consider rich, and how much money do you want to make. Do you want a lot of income from work, do you want a lot of passive income, or do you want a large net worth? For reference, the top 1% have a passive income of $344,000 a year and a net worth thats either about $1.8 million or $8 million, depending on whether you believe the IRS or Federal Reserve, respectively.

The kind of money that you can make by compromising on morals or running a ****ty high volume, low quality practice is chump change compared to starting a biotech that actually benefits society.

Having revolutionary ideas is difficult and not everyone can do it. But inventing new products remains a great way for a physician to make huge money (i.e 100's of millions) and actually help people on a larger scale than practice. Reference the previous posters about doctors who are billionaires. Keep your eyes open, keep up to date, and think about what people really need, what is most inefficient in your practice, etc.

You don't need to be first; recognizing a great idea is often more lucrative than than actually coming up with them - and its a repeatable process that requires less time input. This requires just knowing the game changers in healthcare and being ready to front cold hard cash if they have a great idea. Network, network, network.

Or invest in public biotech companies. Hell, investors in early stage biotechs can make 100's of percent return on investment per year.

Investing your income wisely is probably the easiest way to get rich, but it probably won't get you the same kind of money as creating/being an early investor in a biotech. It likewise carries almost zero ethical implications. If you can make it through medical school, you can probably learn how to value stocks, buy good rental properties, or own high-return businesses (including healthcare-related businesses).

Maybe join an investment club or partnership. Stock investment clubs outperform the average mutual fund, they don't charge fees, and are less time consuming because you get to share the work. Partnerships help you enter businesses or real estate deals with large up-front costs.

If you are lucky, you could meet an extremely talented hedge fund manager and get rich off investments with literally no work, but great managers are few and far between, and you need an income above $250,000 or a net worth above $1,000,000 to be eligible for hedge funds.

Of course, getting a high-paying specialty helps, because the amount of money you can save is the single biggest predictor of your eventual net worth with an investment approach. However, with good money management and prudent investment, it is not unreasonable to expect a 10 million plus net worth even with lower paying specialties, which will earn you a secure spot in the top 1%.

 

[SpecterGT260]

Evolution of scrilla.

Money --> Paper --> scroll --> scrill --> scrilla, with skrilla as as alternative spelling.

I prefer the shrimp pathway

 

[sirenomelia]

I have some advice that is a bit more practical than inventing a revolutionary new drug or a game-changing medical device. We all know that the money, regardless of specialty, will be there. So live frugally, save up, and purchase a rental property in an area preferred by renters (near a college campus, for example). Use the income from this property to make payments on a second rental property that you purchase. Continue until you have a handful of properties. Have a property management company manage the properties--you don't have time to unclog toilets and kick out bad tenants. In a college town or neighborhood, you can easily charge $1500 - $2000 per month for a large rental house. If you can only buy a two-bedroom home, that's fine; just "finish" the basement or convert it to a second unit. Either way, you double the number of rooms to lease out.

The trick is to save up so you can buy the first property outright, in cash. This sounds hard, but you can easily find a run-down rental for ~$150,000. The income from that property pays the mortgage of the second, and so on. There is a lot of money to be made this way, especially in a college town.

Good luck.

Thats horribly oversimplified. The aggravation of renters finding them and the damage they do, and chasing them down and getting them to pay is bad enough before you even consider in these times there's no guarantee your property wont be worth less than what you paid.

To answer the OP IMO medical execs/ admin/ CEO's make ridiculous amounts of money for the work they do. If you have people skills and dont mind being a chronicopathologic BS'er than the MD/MBA would be they way to go.

 

[CaptainSSO]

Thats horribly oversimplified. The aggravation of renters finding them and the damage they do, and chasing them down and getting them to pay is bad enough before you even consider in these times there's no guarantee your property wont be worth less than what you paid.

To answer the OP IMO medical execs/ admin/ CEO's make ridiculous amounts of money for the work they do. If you have people skills and dont mind being a chronicopathologic BS'er than the MD/MBA would be they way to go.

Yea but the problem with that is you can't just wake up one day and decide to be a CEO, etc. It would be like me just suggesting to you that you become an NFL player. Well, it's not that easy.

 

[NickNaylor]

I have some advice that is a bit more practical than inventing a revolutionary new drug or a game-changing medical device. We all know that the money, regardless of specialty, will be there. So live frugally, save up, and purchase a rental property in an area preferred by renters (near a college campus, for example). Use the income from this property to make payments on a second rental property that you purchase. Continue until you have a handful of properties. Have a property management company manage the properties--you don't have time to unclog toilets and kick out bad tenants. In a college town or neighborhood, you can easily charge $1500 - $2000 per month for a large rental house. If you can only buy a two-bedroom home, that's fine; just "finish" the basement or convert it to a second unit. Either way, you double the number of rooms to lease out.

The trick is to save up so you can buy the first property outright, in cash. This sounds hard, but you can easily find a run-down rental for ~$150,000. The income from that property pays the mortgage of the second, and so on. There is a lot of money to be made this way, especially in a college town.

Good luck.

I would agree with this (and this is something I plan on doing). Of course it's not a guarantee, but it IS something that can sustain itself - including growth - independently past a certain point. Stay away from markets that are extremely volatile and stick to places where demand will almost certainly always be there (like a college town). Obviously this is oversimplified, but it's a pretty good idea in principle if you have the means to acquire the capital necessary to get started.

 

[sotto voce]

Thats horribly oversimplified. The aggravation of renters finding them and the damage they do, and chasing them down and getting them to pay is bad enough before you even consider in these times there's no guarantee your property wont be worth less than what you paid.

To answer the OP IMO medical execs/ admin/ CEO's make ridiculous amounts of money for the work they do. If you have people skills and dont mind being a chronicopathologic BS'er than the MD/MBA would be they way to go.

You're right, I should have fleshed out the details. ??? Or not, since this is an online forum and that was just an idea.

And you suggested instead to be an exec or admin. Very practical advice, thanks.

I specifically mentioned TO USE A PROPERTY MANAGEMENT COMPANY. They will do all the work for you. You lose some income but you don't have to unclog toilets and deal with renters, ever. I'm speaking from personal experience.

Again, if you buy in the right neighborhood, you don't have to worry about property values lowering. My college town of 50,000 people has an incredibly strong local economy and housing prices stayed high throughout the Great Recession.

 

[CaptainSSO]

You're right, I should have fleshed out the details. ??? Or not, since this is an online forum and that was just an idea.

And you suggested instead to be an exec or admin. Very practical advice, thanks.

I specifically mentioned TO USE A PROPERTY MANAGEMENT COMPANY. They will do all the work for you. You lose some income but you don't have to unclog toilets and deal with renters, ever. I'm speaking from personal experience.

Again, if you buy in the right neighborhood, you don't have to worry about property values lowering. My college town of 50,000 people has an incredibly strong local economy and housing prices stayed high throughout the Great Recession.

That's a terrible idea, man.

I would suggest playing the guitar for a band and becoming a multi-platinum rock star instead.

 

[45408]

Be this guy.

http://www.larelybeagle.com/2009/01...ends-endorsement-to-new-hydroxycut-snake-oil/ - lol

 

[phltz]

On the theory that it's only illegal if you're successfully prosecuted, you could get rich by committing massive medical fraud, become the governor of Florida, and then get off Scott free.

 

[STAT EKG]

http://www.larelybeagle.com/2009/01...ends-endorsement-to-new-hydroxycut-snake-oil/ - lol

I don't think it gets any scammier than naming the product "snake oil."

The guy is literally a snake oil salesman.

 

[JP2740]

I don't think it gets any scammier than naming the product "snake oil."

The guy is literally a snake oil salesman.

Lol look at the first comment on that page.

 

[sirenomelia]

You're right, I should have fleshed out the details. ??? Or not, since this is an online forum and that was just an idea.

And you suggested instead to be an exec or admin. Very practical advice, thanks.

I specifically mentioned TO USE A PROPERTY MANAGEMENT COMPANY. They will do all the work for you. You lose some income but you don't have to unclog toilets and deal with renters, ever. I'm speaking from personal experience.

Again, if you buy in the right neighborhood, you don't have to worry about property values lowering. My college town of 50,000 people has an incredibly strong local economy and housing prices stayed high throughout the Great Recession.

People that dont handle the details on their own and have 3rd party mgt usually recoup a fraction of their mortgage. Stop posting if you dont know wtf you're talking about.

 

[realmeaning]

Call me podunk, but what's wrong with making a 200k salary? I find that to be impressive to an extent, and feel no need to make millions. I like villas in Europe as much as the next guy, but sometimes I feel like I have a totally skewed vision of salaries because I come from a middle class family.

 

[couldabeenadoc]

Play a doctor on TV. 😛

I believe Hugh Laurie was making more than $700,000 per episode!

This is out of curiosity, not personal motivation, so spare me the advice not to focus on money. So here goes: In which ways can an MD yield the highest income for his educational attainment?

Spinal orthopedics and neurosurgeons have a range of salary that already breaks $1 million per year. However, I am interested in hearing your personal stories or experiences in other ways that MDs of all kinds have made above and beyond normal salaries. For example, have you heard of any MDs going into consulting/advising, pharmaceuticals, medical devices, hospital administration, etc.? Private practive vs hospital? East vs west coast?

 

[link2swim06]

Call me podunk, but what's wrong with making a 200k salary? I find that to be impressive to an extent, and feel no need to make millions. I like villas in Europe as much as the next guy, but sometimes I feel like I have a totally skewed vision of salaries because I come from a middle class family.

There is alot more to being rich than buying villas. If you had hundreds of millions of dollars you could start companies to cure diseases, create new technology, solve problems in the world etc...

Most people who are mega-rich dont spend most of their money on themselves...rather they spend it on developing it their interests and as a force to make their dreams in reality.

Alot of rich people enjoy being venture capitalist, which allows them to have a large say in the future. I guess it depends what you want...

 

[CaptainSSO]

Start selling 98% pure blue methamphetamine.

 

[Xiao]

.

 

[mydodger]

Start selling 98% pure blue methamphetamine.

Yo, Mr. White!

 

[Shnurek]

Start selling 98% pure blue methamphetamine.

The meth market is saturated. Almost anybody with a high school education can make it. Now mastering how to make lysergic acid diethylamide. That's a whole different ballgame 😀 Requiring college orgo at least.

 

[duckie99]

This is out of curiosity, not personal motivation, so spare me the advice not to focus on money. So here goes: In which ways can an MD yield the highest income for his educational attainment?

Spinal orthopedics and neurosurgeons have a range of salary that already breaks $1 million per year. However, I am interested in hearing your personal stories or experiences in other ways that MDs of all kinds have made above and beyond normal salaries. For example, have you heard of any MDs going into consulting/advising, pharmaceuticals, medical devices, hospital administration, etc.? Private practive vs hospital? East vs west coast?

not sure if this has been brought up yet but you do realize that the fields which make an excessive amount of money have some really big drawbacks. For example, in neurosurgery it is no secret hours are absolutely terrible pretty much for life. In orthopedic surgery sure you may end up only doing 2-3 different surgeries being super efficient but not really being able to do anything else.

Honestly I think a better way to look at it is how you can get the most bang for your buck. I'd say this falls under three categories:
1. making good money (variable)
2. interesting job (varies from person to person)
3. good hours.
Also realize you can make lots of money outside of medicine as a MD such as investments, clinical trials, etc.

So you gotta pick what's important because it is very unlikely to find a job that is great in all three categories. There will always be give and take. Want more money? Well then work more hours... Want a more interesting varied job? Likely comes at the expense of making more money.

You can also choose fields that have loan forgiveness so you essentially come out after a few years of residency with no debt making around 200k. Having good money management skills and living in an area with a lower cost of living will take that amount very far.

But there's not much I can say if you want to live in LA and make 750k. You'd probably have to do plastic surgery which basically just gives you good money and probably pretty good hours at the expense of interesting cases (you're going to be doing lipo and boob jobs all day). All the neurosurgeons I know hardly ever see their families. Ortho has become very specialized where one surgeon will only do knee replacements, another shoulder, another spine, etc.

 

[USCTrojan11]

It may take a while to do but establish a private practice in a niche market not owned by hospitals. This is best for primary care as patient recruiting is much easier. Accept Medi-Cal(Medicaid), provide accountable care and live off capitation and cash for the uninsured. Hire NPs and PAs to save cost, do your own billing as well. Takes probably 5 years to develop but after that, the money comes in consistently, especially if you empower your patients to take care of themselves. You'll be your own boss and work 9-5. While it's developing or if you need more money, you can always do hospitalist as a side job (outside of 9-5 hours). Finally, once you have a big patient population, you have enough leverage to join an IPA or start your own. #PROFIT - Private practice guys in my area bring home cool 600 after all expenses (those who take Medicaid maybe alittle less), no ceiling for IPA owner/medical directors

Takes a huge leap of faith and large investment - not the easiest thing to do when you're finishing residency, getting settled with a family, paying off loans, the first car, house and kids tuition.

Also demonstrates why being active and playing a leadership role in your community is important. And networking is huge if you're a specialist.

 

[mordounhas]

In orthopedic surgery sure you may end up only doing 2-3 different surgeries being super efficient but not really being able to do anything else.

Ortho has become very specialized where one surgeon will only do knee replacements, another shoulder, another spine, etc.

Ortho is definitely a very specialized field, but many surgeons still do a variety of surgeries on various parts of the body. Fellowship-trained sports med doctors often do a wide variety of cases and act as de facto Orthopaedic generalists in the community (some will do total knees, total hips, total shoulders, scopes on all three of those and cover a lot of other MSK pathology that they either get while on call or is referred to them by a PCP).

All this being said, if your end-goal was to make money as an Orthopod, joint replacements might not be a bad avenue. At one of my aways, there was a surgeon who ran 2 rooms 3-4 times a week and often did between 7-10 knees/hips (more knees than hips) on each of those days. This required 2 different PAs to do the exposure and closure and I believe he also had a PA or NP in office most days. I'm sure he made bank.

 

[realmeaning]

There is alot more to being rich than buying villas. If you had hundreds of millions of dollars you could start companies to cure diseases, create new technology, solve problems in the world etc...

Most people who are mega-rich dont spend most of their money on themselves...rather they spend it on developing it their interests and as a force to make their dreams in reality.

Alot of rich people enjoy being venture capitalist, which allows them to have a large say in the future. I guess it depends what you want...

Very good points. Reading my thread I can see how it sounds like a moral critique of wealth, which I didn't mean it to be at all. If people want to make millions, I respect that. I guess I'm just exploring how rich is 'rich--' it definitely is heavily skewed depending on socioeconomic upbringing.

 

[Oxer45]

Lets say you wanted to make enough money to live well, but weren't innovative enough to invent something, moral enough not to do something corrupt, didn't have the business background to be CEO or start your own imaging center. Then you best bet is to save and invest (probably S&P500 index fund). 40k a yr in savings for 30 yrs with a return of 6% gives you 3.5 mil. Sure its not as sexy as inventing next big biotech device, but we can all save 3,500 a mo on attending salary.

 

[FSU2013]

Lets say you wanted to make enough money to live well, but weren't innovative enough to invent something, moral enough not to do something corrupt, didn't have the business background to be CEO or start your own imaging center. Then you best bet is to save and invest (probably S&P500 index fund). 40k a yr in savings for 30 yrs with a return of 6% gives you 3.5 mil. Sure its not as sexy as inventing next big biotech device, but we can all save 3,500 a mo on attending salary.

You're forgetting the time-value of money and the ridiculous rate of inflation. 3.5 mil in 30+ years wont be a jaw dropping number.

 

[Oxer45]

You're forgetting the time-value of money and the ridiculous rate of inflation. 3.5 mil in 30+ years wont be a jaw dropping number.

Avg stock market return is around 10%. I assumed inflation of 4%, hence the rate of real return of 6%.