HOW do people get so many face-to-face hours?

[futureapppsy2]

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For those of you who apply to internship with 700+ F2F hours (especially those with 1000 or more), how do you get so many hours? Certain types of placements (in patient, schools, prisons, etc) where no-shows are less likely? Taking additional pracs? Overscheduling clients in anticipation of no-shows? Certain types of clinical work? I'm legitimately curious, as it seems like no-shows and/or heavy support hour requirements can be such a struggle in some settings, which can create APPIC hour issues.

 

[PurplePants80]

Full-time summer + full time this past half year. I only barely broke 1000 doing that. If you count just my practicum 8-10 hrs/F2F/week experiences the prior two years (40 weeks each), I think I came out to 700ish.

 

[PHD12]

For those of you who apply to internship with 700+ F2F hours (especially those with 1000 or more), how do you get so many hours? Certain types of placements (in patient, schools, prisons, etc) where no-shows are less likely? Taking additional pracs? Overscheduling clients in anticipation of no-shows? Certain types of clinical work? I'm legitimately curious, as it seems like no-shows and/or heavy support hour requirements can be such a struggle in some settings, which can create APPIC hour issues.

There are a good number of programs where people start clinical work in the first year. Also, many people apply for internship during the 5th year these days so at that point you may have3- 4 years of practicum experience, if not 5. In my location, several of the hospital positions required a 3 day per week commitment so you are looking at 24 hours per week (8-10 are going to be face to face).

 

[AcronymAllergy]

I had a decent amount when all was said and done (somewhere around 1300 or 1500 maybe?), with the vast majority coming from assessments. Pulling off 2 full-on (i.e., 6+ hour) neuropsychs per week in addition to maybe 2 or 3 therapy clients, 1 or 2 hour-long intakes, and a bunch of short check-ins over the course of my last two years helped the hours pile up pretty quickly, even in the context of a decent number of no-shows.

And yes, we also overbooked to an extent at some of our clinics.

Edit: Also, as PHD12 mentioned, we began clinical work in our first year, although not nearly to the degree I mentioned above (e.g., one 6-hour assessment per week or so).

 

[DynamicDidactic]

I had 700+ hours as a 5th year student, started seeing clients in my second year.

I have a departmental clinic that allowed steady access to hours, had a caseload of 5 at a time. Would take on assessment-only cases whenever I get a chance, did a few groups. On top of that I was able to get hours through peer supervision and program development, particularly as the student clinic coordinator.

Another student in our program had over 1000 hours as a fourth year. This was due to 2 days a week at practicums at a Med Center, which had a lot assessment at times.

In previous years, very research heavy students were able to get great placements with just about 500 hours but lots of research productivity.

 

[KillerDiller]

I started prac in my first year (but a very scaled-down version) and applied in my 5th year, meaning 4 full years of prac experience. My pracs went from 2 hours per week of face to face time, to 16 hours per week (about 8 F2F), to 20 hours per week (about 10 F2F), to 24 hours per week (about 12 F2F). When all was said and done, I had around 750 contact hours.

 

[Ollie123]

By taking forever to graduate🙂

I know I keep making that point, but I think its an important consideration. I know almost no one applying in their 4th year with 1000+ hours and the ones I do actually generally had lousy CVs (i.e. no research).

I've known from the start I was research-heavy so have "gamed the system" to some extent to make sure that my practicums were ones that provided a good hours-to-work ratio. Groups are good for that as you generally don't need to worry about no-shows (at least a few people are bound to make it!). I'm not planning on following a neuropsych track (I'm more "neuroscience" than "neuropsychology" if that makes sense), but have found similar payoff from assessments. These are generally longer so I'm getting 2-3 hours per appointment and its much easier for me to chunk my days that way. I'd MUCH prefer do one 4 hour testing session than try and fit in 4 separate one-hour therapy sessions sporadically throughout the week. Plus, integrated reports look good.

For better or worse, I've deliberately avoided places with lots of support hours/didactics. The one I did do was a counseling center and I found it a terrible experience. Full day a week for 2 full semesters for 60 measly F2F hours....oh the things I could have done with that time. More than half my time was spent in poor-quality supervision, meetings that "gave us space to share our thoughts" (i.e. the person in charge didn't plan anything but we still had to sit there and talk about nothing), "diversity" meetings where we basically played games and pretended it made us more effective therapists, etc. It helped diversify my experiences so I'm happy to have it on paper, but I found the slow-paced inefficiency absolutely infuriating (which I'm sure if they knew they would ask me to spend an extra 4 hours/week "analyzing" to determine why I find it frustrating to sit around gabbing about nothing when I have stuff to do). In case you can't tell, I'm more at home in a hospital setting🙂

The final thing I'll mention is that many people get those hours through research. About 200(ish) of mine have come through research. Some of it isn't exactly great experience (100+ SCIDs), some of it I was decent but I think I can spin it as better than it is (supervising other students in our assessments), and some of it was quite good (primary study therapist that got me the only individual therapy hours I'm likely to get in my area of interest). Since I was so heavily involved in one study, I'm taking first authorship of the primary analyses off an R01 we're going to submit to J Abn (though who knows if it will get accepted), will be on 5-10 other pubs once we get all these out (though we're realllly slow at getting things out the door), and have basically been given free reign over several other large datasets. Admittedly if I was "just" doing the clinical aspect this wouldn't happen, but since I'm quite obviously a researcher too my advisor and other faculty here have been happy to let me combine research and clinical experience. So sometimes clinical work can help build the research CV too!

I will finally add, our practicums here clearly work different than many others. I can't imagine anyone here taking an unpaid practicum for 20 hours/week. The norm is probably 8, and the only time people do 20 hours a week is through their own labs that do applied research or the relatively small number of paid clinical placements (that provide stipend/waiver). A 20 hour/week practicum would eat up far too much time from things that are likely more important for my career, but I imagine it would make getting those hours up MUCH easier.

 

[Doctor Eliza]

by taking forever to graduate🙂

+1

 

[neuroal]

I'm inpatient for my practicum working with both adults and adolescents. Being inpatient, approximately 75-80% of my hours are F2F with patients. So far I have logged 600 hours (have until May to finish Master's program) so I'd say about 480ish F2F and I'm being asked to be there more than the 32 hours/wk I currently am working. I should finish with about 700 F2F total. Then I hopefully will have the hours from a doctoral program if accepted.

With inpatient, there are always patients to see and assessments that need to be done. So you don't have the no-show issue. The nice thing about where I am is that I only have to ask to do more assessments, therapy, or treatment planning and I'm readily given the opportunity. The other nice thing is that when I'm on the PHP side for adolescent, I log a minimum of 5 hours per day F2F between admission, asessment, treatment, and discharge planning for next LOC. I like being where I am because busy nature of the units and I was told to log as many hours as possible in case I don't have such a great opportunity elsewhere later in training. It's also become a paid prac which is awesome!

 

[DynamicDidactic]

I know almost no one applying in their 4th year with 1000+ hours and the ones I do actually generally had lousy CVs (i.e. no research).

Two 4th years in our program matched this year to very good, top tier sites and both were very productive research-wise (probably most productive in our research heavy program). One had 1000+ hours and the other had a lot as well, not sure exactly though.

It can happen in the right situation and with the right individual.

 

[Ollie123]

Oh I'm sure its possible. I'd still like to follow these folks around for a week though to see how they do it (and when they sleep). I know some people who produce at incredible rates despite being very busy clinically, but the work is generally junk (even though it gets into moderate to good journals as that is not necessarily a good indicator of quality). I have met a few folks who I genuinely believe do high-quality work at high rates but haven't yet had the privilege to work with one of them and see how on earth they do it.

 

[blindchaos]

I had a lot of hours when I applied for internship but it's largely because I didn't go straight from undergrad into my doctoral program. I completed a 2 year terminal MA program and the 2nd year of that program included a 20 hour per week internship. So I had that plus 3 years of practicum work in my doctoral program.

 

[ResearchGirlie]

Just FYI, be careful on adding your research hours into your F2F hours. I understand at one point you were allowed to count research hours (SCIDS, etc) but the most recent application round did not count research hours in hours, just in # of times administering a measure.

To answer the OP: I didn't have a ton of face to face hours, but I was able to emphasize quality over quantity in that I had very good training and experiences that fit with what I want to do during internship and research.

 

[Ollie123]

Just FYI, be careful on adding your research hours into your F2F hours. I understand at one point you were allowed to count research hours (SCIDS, etc) but the most recent application round did not count research hours in hours, just in # of times administering a measure.

?!?

My understanding was that as long as you were under supervision they could still be counted. The folks I know who applied still found ways to count these though I didn't ask for the details of it. Heck, I'm not even sure how one could differentiate research hours from clinical hours in some settings I've worked. If someone writes a paper based off the intakes in our clinic does that retroactively invalidate my hours?

If they can't be counted, I'm going to direct some pretty intense anger towards APA/APPIC as that 1) makes zero sense and 2) Basically means I have to go experimental at this point as that just knocked out about 60% of the hours I've accrued (and arguably the best experiences).

 

[cara susanna]

There's a great prevention research study (ongoing) going on at my university and APPIC informed the grad students who run the sessions that they can't count the hours as intervention because for some reason they don't meet research intervention requirements. So, yeah, it can be aggravating.

 

[Dream Chaser]

During my therapy practicum year I was at a community mental health center where no shows were quite common, thus I was only able to accrue 260 F2F intervention hours for the year. My next practicum (advanced) was in a correctional setting where clients/inmates cannot technically choose to show or not and if one client was not available, there was another client in line (therapy, intake evaluation, crisis, etc). Additionally I provided a number of groups so even if a couple clients did not show, I was still able to provide direct service hours and completed more than 500 F2F intervention hours that year alone. I also started the doctoral program with a terminal masters degree (practicum in a private practice) where I accumulated another 300 F2F hours. All my practicum experiences were 16 to 24 hours per week for one year. Although these numbers may seem a little high, I did not match my first year with the match, but was more competitive numbers wise after completing the remainder of my advanced practicum. For those interested in outpatient or community mental health centers there can be a high amount of no shows - which can A) be annoying and B) can mess up your number of F2F hours (I had to complete an extra month of my community mental health practicum to meet my schools F2F requirements that year). May be a good thing to ask potential sites about on interviews.

 

[Ollie123]

Just checked APPIC about this since all this has pretty horrific implications for me if true.

Unless I'm missing something, I think it may just be that my school is particularly supportive with regards to finding ways to make sure these things work. In reviewing the instructions there doesn't seem to be anything that suggests these hours wouldn't count as they meet every requirement APPIC lists out. In many cases they seem to leave it up to program DCTs and ours really goes out of the way to make sure these things work out for us. Interventions for "Clinical research positions" explicitly count. Ours are program-sanctioned, supervised, the academic program director is aware, etc. etc. I can't see any possible reason that at least the things I've done wouldn't count for hours in the most recent instructions (and am not about to go looking for loopholes to NOT count them), though I'm sure there are other situations out there where issues might arise.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

A few ppl mentioned hours accrued during "masters" training. From my understanding, none of those hours can be counted. I believe ONLY hours done during your doctoral training, that were sanctioned by your program, under the supervision of a licensed supervisor, and that meet the other req. can be counted. Am I missing something?

IIRC, 6-7 years ago they had MA/MS and Doctoral hours split out (on the paper app). People could list their MA/MS hours there, though they still didn't get added into the total "APPIC" hours that were totaled at the bottom. The MA/MS column was eventually dropped and then the app went electronic, and I don't believe it was on there either.

 

[ResearchGirlie]

There's a great prevention research study (ongoing) going on at my university and APPIC informed the grad students who run the sessions that they can't count the hours as intervention because for some reason they don't meet research intervention requirements. So, yeah, it can be aggravating.

Yes, this.

If you go by APPIC you were not technically supposed to add anything in F2F hours that was related to research. For example, SCIDs and clinical interviews during an assessment for an intervention trial were not supposed to be added nor were hours served as a therapist on a treatment trial. I know that some people and DCTs encourage students to ignore these rules however per APPIC this is not appropriate.

They could change this again next year but per the last 2 years it's not technically allowed. I would have had about 300 more hours if I had been able to count research hours but I chose to follow the rules as stated by APPIC. I don't think it hurt me nor do I think it helped those who went ahead and added the hours in.

 

[Pragma]

Two 4th years in our program matched this year to very good, top tier sites and both were very productive research-wise (probably most productive in our research heavy program). One had 1000+ hours and the other had a lot as well, not sure exactly though.

It can happen in the right situation and with the right individual.

Boy that would be tough! I matched during year 4 with high research productivity (11 or 12 pubs) but just under 500 f2f hours. I could see it working if you did all assessment practica and had some research hours that counted, but that wasn't my situation.

I also hate to mention this, but I am pretty certain that some people fudge their hours to some extent.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Yes, this.

If you go by APPIC you were not technically supposed to add anything in F2F hours that was related to research. For example, SCIDs and clinical interviews during an assessment for an intervention trial were not supposed to be added nor were hours served as a therapist on a treatment trial. I know that some people and DCTs encourage students to ignore these rules however per APPIC this is not appropriate.

They could change this again next year but per the last 2 years it's not technically allowed. I would have had about 300 more hours if I had been able to count research hours but I chose to follow the rules as stated by APPIC. I don't think it hurt me nor do I think it helped those who went ahead and added the hours in.

That was my recollection as well, and I didn't count time spent administering clinical measures in a research context. This was a few years back and might've changed since then, though.

Also, as T4C pointed out, masters hours are counted in a different category/column.

 

[neuroal]

A few ppl mentioned hours accrued during "masters" training. From my understanding, none of those hours can be counted. I believe ONLY hours done during your doctoral training, that were sanctioned by your program, under the supervision of a licensed supervisor, and that meet the other req. can be counted. Am I missing something?

IIRC, 6-7 years ago they had MA/MS and Doctoral hours split out (on the paper app). People could list their MA/MS hours there, though they still didn't get added into the total "APPIC" hours that were totaled at the bottom. The MA/MS column was eventually dropped and then the app went electronic, and I don't believe it was on there either.

Our program checked as far as I remember and the master's level practica is set up the same as the doctoral level and they were told they're accepted (all criteria are met as far as PhD supervision, etc). I'll ask again but I was also told they would be fully transferred to a doctoral program should I be accepted to one while interviewing. So maybe that changed recently? I know they listed clarifications to the rules in 2011 and that may have been part of it.

 

[NotTheHoff]

Our program checked as far as I remember and the master's level practica is set up the same as the doctoral level and they were told they're accepted (all criteria are met as far as PhD supervision, etc). I'll ask again but I was also told they would be fully transferred to a doctoral program should I be accepted to one while interviewing. So maybe that changed recently? I know they listed clarifications to the rules in 2011 and that may have been part of it.

In the AAPI application system, there are a few sections where you input your specific number of hours across different services/settings/populations. One of these also includes different columns for Doctoral Level and "Terminal Masters." If I recall, the ones you input into Terminal Masters will be added into your total number of hours; however, sites are free to set minimum doctoral hours cutoffs.

 

[bmedclinic]

There are a good number of programs where people start clinical work in the first year. Also, many people apply for internship during the 5th year these days so at that point you may have3- 4 years of practicum experience, if not 5. In my location, several of the hospital positions required a 3 day per week commitment so you are looking at 24 hours per week (8-10 are going to be face to face).

This was the case for me. I worked for 3 years in a cmhc 2 days a week and 1 day a week in an integrated primary care. I got used to the faster pace of the integrated primary care and started overbooking my cmhc clients due to the high no show rate. Then I went full time back in May to that cmhc.

 

[neuroal]

In the AAPI application system, there are a few sections where you input your specific number of hours across different services/settings/populations. One of these also includes different columns for Doctoral Level and "Terminal Masters." If I recall, the ones you input into Terminal Masters will be added into your total number of hours; however, sites are free to set minimum doctoral hours cutoffs.

I think that's correct from what I recall also. The nice thing about being inpatient is the nature of the acuity of the work and they are historically accepted. It was one of my motivating factors in being assigned to the site. Thanks!

 

[Pragma]

In the AAPI application system, there are a few sections where you input your specific number of hours across different services/settings/populations. One of these also includes different columns for Doctoral Level and "Terminal Masters." If I recall, the ones you input into Terminal Masters will be added into your total number of hours; however, sites are free to set minimum doctoral hours cutoffs.

IIRC, when I applied in 2008, only doctoral program hours counted. You could not apply terminal masters hours to the total. There was a place for those hours but they did not count towards the total.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

IIRC, when I applied in 2008, only doctoral program hours counted. You could not apply terminal masters hours to the total. There was a place for those hours but they did not count towards the total.

Yeah, I've reviewed applications, but I don't remember if the masters hours are counted toward total hours on the final print-out or not. I think most sites stipulate that their minimum hours requirement only counts doctoral hours, though, and I'm positive that (as another poster mentioned) the two are separated into various columns on the application itself.

Don't let this confuse those of you who didn't have a masters prior to starting your doctoral program, however. The hours you earn in your first ~2 years (i.e., prior to obtaining a masters, if your program awards one en route to the doctorate) do count. It's the hours earned in a separate, non-doctoral masters program that get entered in separately. Pretty sure APPIC mentions this in the FAQ somewhere as well.

 

[Pragma]

Yeah, I've reviewed applications, but I don't remember if the masters hours are counted toward total hours on the final print-out or not. I think most sites stipulate that their minimum hours requirement only counts doctoral hours, though, and I'm positive that (as another poster mentioned) the two are separated into various columns on the application itself.

Don't let this confuse those of you who didn't have a masters prior to starting your doctoral program, however. The hours you earn in your first ~2 years (i.e., prior to obtaining a masters, if your program awards one en route to the doctorate) do count. It's the hours earned in a separate, non-doctoral masters program that get entered in separately. Pretty sure APPIC mentions this in the FAQ somewhere as well.

Yes good point...if you are in a combined masters/phd program all of those hours accrued sanctioned by the program count. But the terminal master's program hours earned outside of a doctoral program do not as I recall.

Issues like this, I believe, contribute to some inflated totals, whether people knowingly or unknowingly break the rules. Not sure if the rules have changed in recent years.

 

[KillerDiller]

Yeah, I've reviewed applications, but I don't remember if the masters hours are counted toward total hours on the final print-out or not. I think most sites stipulate that their minimum hours requirement only counts doctoral hours, though, and I'm positive that (as another poster mentioned) the two are separated into various columns on the application itself.

I reviewed applications this year, and there are separate columns on the print-out that the sites receive. I'm pretty sure the vast majority of sites look at doctoral hours only to fulfill any requirements they may have. I know that's what we did. So, masters hours certainly won't hurt you, but they also aren't going to be counted the same as doctoral hours and won't help you meet cut-offs.

 

[DynamicDidactic]

On the APPIC application there are separate columns for each type of hours where you input "Doctoral" and "Terminal Masters." They do not get added up together but are calculated as separate totals. What the internship sites do with that info is up to them.

Also, any clinical work done for any type of research does not count as F2F hours. So, if you are supervised by a PhD on a study of CBT vs Energy Therapies and you see people from the community, that cannot be counted as F2F hours (I know its dumb). If you do the same exact work but it is not for a study then it counts. However, you can list the amount of assessments you completed (not as hours) even if it was for research purposes.

 

[Psychadelic2012]

Funny about the master's hours. My program (DCT and students) is very vocal about how 75% of sites do look at master's hours (from previous programs) and we have a near-perfect match rate (~85%, small program with only a couple of people over the years not matching) with folks who regularly match in their third year with a terminal master's. It's hard to believe that everyone is applying through the same system!!

 

[cara susanna]

Yeah, I know people who came in with their Masters who had a ton of hours and ended up not doing placements their final year because they already had sufficient hours. So I thought that it counted.

 

[Pragma]

Yeah, I know people who came in with their Masters who had a ton of hours and ended up not doing placements their final year because they already had sufficient hours. So I thought that it counted.

I wonder if any DCTs are telling students to list them as doctoral hours and signing off on them. That would be crazy!

I didn't have a terminal master's before coming in, but a couple of classmates who did were frustrated that it didn't count in their f2f totals.

 

[Pragma]

Funny about the master's hours. My program (DCT and students) is very vocal about how 75% of sites do look at master's hours (from previous programs) and we have a near-perfect match rate (~85%, small program with only a couple of people over the years not matching) with folks who regularly match in their third year with a terminal master's. It's hard to believe that everyone is applying through the same system!!

I am sure some programs do (although not sure where the 75% statistic comes from?), but I am sure there could also be a number of other reasons why students are successful. Hours aren't really everything once you meet a site's minimum threshold.

For example, my former program has awesome (>85% rates annually) match rates and it is uncommon for people to come in with a terminal master's. Not sure if that makes a difference.

 

[Marissa4usa]

I have a question: When people say that hours from a master's degree don't count, why is that? Is it because you weren't supervised by a doctoral psychologist, but "just" somebody with a license at the master's level?

 

[paramour]

By taking forever to graduate🙂

+1

+2.

And by doing LOTS of group work. Even if you have clients who are no-shows, the group still runs. Multiple groups each week... and Intakes for all clients in those groups... equals LOTS of hours.

 

[socialchick01]

I applied during my 6th year (Counseling Psych PhD, w/o terminal masters) with 1304 intervention hours and 180 assessment hours this year (w/more projected). First time applying, matched to top choice, and was very fortunate to receive 12/19 interviews.

Like others have noted, taking the extra time to apply played a large factor in this, and I realize applying in the 6th year is not ideal or necessary for many. Admittedly, the combination of being somewhat slow with my research progression (in diss. data collection now) and the tendency to over-commit to practicum sites (love clinical work!) was the major factor in this... But that was okay for me. I took advantage of every semester (fall, spring, summer) and eventually gained experience in two counseling centers, a department outpatient clinic, private practice, and a residential program. It also gave me time to attend professional meetings and network.

Many people are in a rush to get finished -- which I totally understand given the personal and financial commitments of being in a grad program. Despite the pressure to rush through I took my time, figured out what settings were really the best fit for me (which were different than what I initially thought), and amassed tons of hours in the process. Also, in addition to the FTF hours, I also gained a lot of supervision provided and outreach hours, which count towards intervention hours.

So, here's what I learned: Try not to lose yourself in "trying to match," and remember that our grad prep is all about developing who we are as psychologists/scientists/practitioners. Resist the pressure to make decisions based on probability of matching and more on doing whats best for you.

 

[DynamicDidactic]

I have a question: When people say that hours from a master's degree don't count, why is that? Is it because you weren't supervised by a doctoral psychologist, but "just" somebody with a license at the master's level?

AFAIK, simply b/c those hours were not accumulated while attempting to attain an applied psychology doctorate.

 

[HomeworkHelper]

Yes, this.

If you go by APPIC you were not technically supposed to add anything in F2F hours that was related to research. For example, SCIDs and clinical interviews during an assessment for an intervention trial were not supposed to be added nor were hours served as a therapist on a treatment trial. I know that some people and DCTs encourage students to ignore these rules however per APPIC this is not appropriate.

They could change this again next year but per the last 2 years it's not technically allowed. I would have had about 300 more hours if I had been able to count research hours but I chose to follow the rules as stated by APPIC. I don't think it hurt me nor do I think it helped those who went ahead and added the hours in.

Because I think this can be really relevant for people, can you cite where this is stated please (and what is says?)

 

[neuroal]

Called APPIC and they said that all hours are logged whether terminal masters or doctoral. They said the sites determine if they will count them, however, if they meet all the other requirements (i.e. supervised by licensed PhD, etc) then they are historically counted by most sites. Hope that helps!

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Called APPIC and they said that all hours are logged whether terminal masters or doctoral. They said the sites determine if they will count them, however, if they meet all the other requirements (i.e. supervised by licensed PhD, etc) then they are historically counted by most sites. Hope that helps!

How are those hours verified? I know with the doctoral hours your DCT/program has to sign off on them, so is this same process done for the non-doctoral hours? Does the applicant need to go to their prior institution and have their prior DCT sign off on the hours?

 

[dumbledoresgirl]

+2.

And by doing LOTS of group work. Even if you have clients who are no-shows, the group still runs. Multiple groups each week... and Intakes for all clients in those groups... equals LOTS of hours.

Do you get to count each person in the group as an additional F2F hour? In other words, do 5 people in a group = 5 F2F hours, even though the group was only 1 hour?

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

There is always fuzzy math when counting hours (which was quite frustrating when going through the process), so a best estimate of hours needs to be considered. 1 sixty-minute group should equal 1 hour of F2F contact.

Back in my day *insert story about walking uphill both ways in the snow carrying a giant rock*....all of these questions were present, we were just told to be accurate and make sure not to inflate any hours. I'd hope that hours would cap at some amount, so the #'s that really matter are the minimum ones and whatever the cap may be (800, 1000 hrs, etc) because then the reported hours may start to mean something.

 

[PHD12]

Do you get to count each person in the group as an additional F2F hour? In other words, do 5 people in a group = 5 F2F hours, even though the group was only 1 hour?

No...that is 1 hour. When i'm running a group though I do feel that I'm expanding 5 hours of energy trying to manage 10-12 people who don't want to be in a group!

It would be nice if APPIC let us double up on hours for highly distressing patients! Often times these patients take up 5 hours of your week even though you are meeting with them for only 1 hour 🙂 They should also let us count the amount of time we spend ruminating after a highly charged session! oh...and even the amount of time worrying about matching....thousands of hours there....

 

[dumbledoresgirl]

No...that is 1 hour. When i'm running a group though I do feel that I'm expanding 5 hours of energy trying to manage 10-12 people who don't want to be in a group!

It would be nice if APPIC let us double up on hours for highly distressing patients! Often times these patients take up 5 hours of your week even though you are meeting with them for only 1 hour 🙂 They should also let us count the amount of time we spend ruminating after a highly charged session! oh...and even the amount of time worrying about matching....thousands of hours there....

Haha, yeah I figured that was a stretch. Just wanted to clarify 😳

 

[Ollie123]

Do you get to count each person in the group as an additional F2F hour? In other words, do 5 people in a group = 5 F2F hours, even though the group was only 1 hour?

I wish! Forget internship, I'd have enough hours for licensure by now if that were true....(my VA groups were massive - which isn't really a good thing).

No, definitely not that.

 

[Marissa4usa]

Called APPIC and they said that all hours are logged whether terminal masters or doctoral. They said the sites determine if they will count them, however, if they meet all the other requirements (i.e. supervised by licensed PhD, etc) then they are historically counted by most sites. Hope that helps!

Interesting. I'm asking because I attended an experimental master's program, but accumulated about 160 hours by leading a group (as well as 80 hours of supervision) due to the nature of my adviser's line of research. He's a licensed psychologist. I know my friend who held the same position concurrently was able count those hours but I don't know in what capacity.

 

[paramour]

Do you get to count each person in the group as an additional F2F hour? In other words, do 5 people in a group = 5 F2F hours, even though the group was only 1 hour?

As these guys mentioned previously, only one F2F hour per group hour.

1.5 to 2 hour groups for 2 to 3 years when you're running to 2 to 3 groups with summers included adds up, however.

Like Ollie, my groups had quite a few people in them. This provided me the opportunity to accrue even more hours with their intakes, even if they there was attrition later on... (most of them usually returned, so they had to go through another intake--which resulted in more hours for me).

However, it also screwed me over because my program didn't want to provide me with another practicum opportunity after one year of that experience. I had "too many hours."

I wish! Forget internship, I'd have enough hours for licensure by now if that were true....(my VA groups were massive - which isn't really a good thing).

No, definitely not that.

You & me both.

 

[PHD12]

I can't recall what I did, but do applicants count 45-50 minute sessions as 1 hour?

 

[DynamicDidactic]

I can't recall what I did, but do applicants count 45-50 minute sessions as 1 hour?

yes.

But one should not count a 90 minute assessment as 2 hours. Somebody was trying to make a case for that earlier this cycle. The ridiculousness of some people just kills me.