How do Private Med Schools Justify Charging 50K for tuition, Where does all that money Go?

[EMDO2018]

A girl I went to undergrad with just posted that she got into the Northwestern medical school. I did a little research on the school and the tuition is ~52k a year, cost of living is ~80k! 😱 Honestly I understand its a prestigious school, but how will students ever pay off 320k in loans, in most cases they have undergrad debt too so it may be close to 400k. How is this steep rise in tuition justified? I understand there is Paye and IBR but the numbers are still daunting. The ironic thing is schools want everyone to do primary care, but you have to be a brain surgeon to pay off that kinda debt.

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[WillburCobb]

Private schools generally offer more for scholarships. Also, public schools tend to be highly subsidized by the state government (hence IS biases), and private schools receive significantly less from the state government.

 

[SN12357]

A girl I went to undergrad with just posted that she got into the Northwestern medical school. I did a little research on the school and the tuition is ~52k a year, cost of living is ~80k! 😱 Honestly I understand its a prestigious school, but how will students ever pay off 320k in loans, in most cases they have undergrad debt too so it may be close to 400k. How is this steep rise in tuition justified? I understand there is Paye and IBR but the numbers are still daunting. The ironic thing is schools want everyone to do primary care, but you have to be a brain surgeon to pay off that kinda debt.

The schools have never had to justify it. Tuition goes up because people will go and pay either way, because they can get unlimited loans and everyone is still buying the myth that doctors can pay off any amount of debt.

It's a terrible system, but it's the one we're stuck with.

 

[lmn]

They don't really need to justify anything, there are plenty of students willing to take those seats and pay full price for the chance at a medical education. Also, $50k tuition and an $80k+ COA price tag is not an extreme in terms of the price of schools (other than if you're lucky enough to have IS). Sure a good number of schools can give some scholarship (especially at the higher ranked schools), but there are a ton of students who either don't have parents paying for their school, or aren't low enough income to receive heavy scholarship/need-based aid, who are stuck with these full price tags.

Why do you think everyone is specializing? If you can come up with a great, pretty much for sure way (safe/reliable) to pay off $300k+ of debt by the time I graduate in a reasonable amount of time, sure I'll consider Primary Care, but otherwise it is already off the table before I even attend orientation. Then tack on the nice people in government, etc that complain that med students won't pursue primary care while at the same time complaining that we earn to much as attendings and need to be taxed further... 🙄

 

[3rdarmageddon]

I'm one of those people who will be facing >300K of debt🙁 I guess no primary care for me.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

It's gotten ridiculous. If you want to see the increases over time, follow this link.

https://services.aamc.org/tsfreports/

2013-2014
Median Tuition for IS public: ~$29,000
Median Tuition for private: ~$47,000

1996-1997
Median Tuition for IS public: ~$8,000
Median Tuition for private: ~$23,000

In less than 20 years, public schools have tripled in cost and private schools have doubled in cost. I legitimately want to know why costs have skyrocketed. Can anybody explain it?

 

[lmn]

It's gotten ridiculous. If you want to see the increases over time, follow this link.

https://services.aamc.org/tsfreports/

2013-2014
Median Tuition for IS public: ~$29,000
Median Tuition for private: ~$47,000

1996-1997
Median Tuition for IS public: ~$8,000
Median Tuition for private: ~$23,000

In less than 20 years, public schools have tripled in cost and private schools have doubled in cost. I legitimately want to know why costs have skyrocketed. Can anybody explain it?

It's not just unique to medical school, look at the price of college, the ballooning cost has struck there as well. There are a lot of articles about that which may help give some insight.

 

[sazerac]

They are just taking money from the families of the medical students. Look at the stats. Do the schools charge that much tuition? Yes. Are they getting paid that much? Mostly yes (there are few scholarships).

Are the students graduating with that much debt? NO HELL NO

Average med student debt at graduation hovers around $160K or so. That extra money is coming from somewhere. Med students traditionally come from very wealthy families. No harm done.

 

[Goro]

Same way people pay off mortgages, only with higher salaries.

After you finish residency, you can count on a nice 6-figure salary, much more than any Professor can make.

A girl I went to undergrad with just posted that she got into the Northwestern medical school. I did a little research on the school and the tuition is ~52k a year, cost of living is ~80k! 😱 Honestly I understand its a prestigious school, but how will students ever pay off 320k in loans, in most cases they have undergrad debt too so it may be close to 400k. How is this steep rise in tuition justified? I understand there is Paye and IBR but the numbers are still daunting. The ironic thing is schools want everyone to do primary care, but you have to be a brain surgeon to pay off that kinda debt.

 

[EMDO2018]

They are just taking money from the families of the medical students. Look at the stats. Do the schools charge that much tuition? Yes. Are they getting paid that much? Mostly yes (there are few scholarships).

Are the students graduating with that much debt? NO HELL NO

Average med student debt at graduation hovers around $160K or so. That extra money is coming from somewhere. Med students traditionally come from very wealthy families. No harm done.

except some of us don't come from wealthy families, thank goodness my tuition is 20k. The average debt is probably more like 200k. Will most likely be 250k in 4 years.

 

[goft20]

All that money is used for baking cookies. Yup. Cookies.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[LizzyM]

There are scholarships and need based aid. My old MSAR (2012-2013) indicates that the average 2010 graduate indebtedness was $149,626 (at at time when total COA was $72K) and 78% of enrolled students were receiving aid.

 

[derpina]

http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2012/05/11/152511771/the-real-price-of-college
Enjoy!

 

[allantois]

I think that no one really knows why the price is going up. The fact that there are students who are willing to take on such a huge debt, does not mean that those students have a clear understanding of how they will be paying it off.

 

[noleknight16]

The government got involved and took over as pretty much the only provider of student loans, with a few exceptions. With guaranteed tuition from a federal entity (that does not adjust in the presence or absence of risk factors), why not charge more?

 

[Redpancreas]

The government got involved and took over as pretty much the only provider of student loans, with a few exceptions. With guaranteed tuition from a federal entity (that does not adjust in the presence or absence of risk factors), why not charge more?

No. The government providing student loans is not the reason tuitions are going up. It's not that simple.

 

[NickNaylor]

No. The government providing student loans is not the reason tuitions are going up. It's not that simple.

It's not that simple, but the ease with which otherwise unqualified borrowers are allowed to borrow huge sums of money destroys a key check against rising costs. Normally schools would be under some pressure to ensure that their costs don't balloon to absolutely insane levels because students would simply become unable to afford what the school is trying to charge. Does that mean we should do away with student loans? IMO, no. But to deny that the huge amount of freely flowing credit doesn't play a role does not reflect reality.

FWW, my institution charges nearly $100k for the third and fourth years for the total cost of attendance. Pretty insane.

 

[mrh125]

another question: How does university of illinois justify charging 100k to OOS students? that's even worse.

 

[Promethean]

another question: How does university of illinois justify charging 100k to OOS students? that's even worse.

They don't. That is how they tell OOS students to stay away.

 

[mrh125]

They don't. That is how they tell OOS students to stay away.

yet 21% of the people who go there are OOS students. they make 27 million dollars off of 4 years for one class of OOS students. that's atrocious.

 

[Promethean]

Take in revenue is not the same as making profit, but that is a side point.

I agree, it is an outrageous sum. I wouldn't apply there. It isn't the last school on earth. The school is telling people from OOS that it doesn't really care for them, and if they come anyway, they will get screwed. 21% of their student body showed up to class with lube in hand. I don't blame the school. If someone were to give me $100k, would it be atrocious for me to accept it? I am willing to find out, if anyone is interested! PM for address.

Edited because I am quite serious. Please send money.

 

[hushcom]

The government got involved and took over as pretty much the only provider of student loans, with a few exceptions. With guaranteed tuition from a federal entity (that does not adjust in the presence or absence of risk factors), why not charge more?

For a given academic medical center the percentage of total revenue derived from medical school tuition has historically been rather small, often on the order of around 5% or less. Marking up medical school tuition alone would help the bottom line only slightly while making it more difficult to recruit students.

But when you consider tuition from all the other schools in the center (nursing, health science, PA, etc.) that slice of the revenue pie becomes significant. Combined with an era of declining research funding and increased competition for clinical revenue, it provides a justification to edge up tuition across the board, especially if most of the other medical centers in the country are facing the same environment.

I'm not saying it's right, but the argument of "they screw us because they can" is rather myopic.

 

[deleted480308]

it's a simple equation, when you turn down 50% of your applicants and they all have access to money, you can raise fees.

just change the wording of our "would you eat a poop hotdog for an acceptance" to "would you pay an extra $25k for an acceptance".......the answer for most of us is yes. at a certain point we will rea,h equilibrium and it will settle down like law schools are doing now, but we aren't there yet

 

[phunky]

The same way private colleges do...

 

[BrCo]

If you think 50K is bad, you should take a look at the cost of some dental schools. Pretty sure some of my friends have told me that for a single year some dental schools can charge 90-120K.

 

[LMBLBM]

Simple demand and supply. Medical schools are drug cartel. They set price and we pay

 

[DermViser]

A girl I went to undergrad with just posted that she got into the Northwestern medical school. I did a little research on the school and the tuition is ~52k a year, cost of living is ~80k! 😱 Honestly I understand its a prestigious school, but how will students ever pay off 320k in loans, in most cases they have undergrad debt too so it may be close to 400k. How is this steep rise in tuition justified? I understand there is Paye and IBR but the numbers are still daunting. The ironic thing is schools want everyone to do primary care, but you have to be a brain surgeon to pay off that kinda debt.

It's bc the market justifies it. It's why schools like "College of Henricopolis School of Medicine" can pop up and actually be taken seriously, bc there are more than enough medical students who are willing to go. Do you believe that the increase in tuition has actually resulted in better basic science instruction to med students? Or better clinical rotations where grading is more fair? Likely not.

In-state medical schools push students to do primary care bc their state legislatures that fund them demand that they do so as they receive taxpayer funding and are accountable to the taxpayer. However, medical students do their own research and see the realities in their MS-3 clerkships.

 

[DermViser]

I'm one of those people who will be facing >300K of debt🙁 I guess no primary care for me.

Depends on your application.

 

[DermViser]

If you think 50K is bad, you should take a look at the cost of some dental schools. Pretty sure some of my friends have told me that for a single year some dental schools can charge 90-120K.

They can also practice right out of dental school with no residency required. Big difference.

 

[oldstock]

The schools have never had to justify it. Tuition goes up because people will go and pay either way, because they can get unlimited loans and everyone is still buying the myth that doctors can pay off any amount of debt.

It's a terrible system, but it's the one we're stuck with.

All about supply and demand !! 😉

 

[mysdnhandle]

Trade deficit with other countries and the declining dollar?

 

[F1rstGen]

They can also practice right out of dental school with no residency required. Big difference.

To further drive @DermViser 's point home, a 250K loan at 7.8% interest (the 2015 gradplus rate) will accumulate and extra 60K in interest just during a three year residency. Now if you do decide to pursue a surgical field with an accompanying fellowship and push residency to 6 or even 7 years, you're looking at the possibility of up to an additional 175K added your original COA loan amount at graduation. This puts your effective loan amount at approximately $425,000 before you even can use that new six-figure salary to start making payments. Add in the modest $250K house and new car you will inevitably want to purchase and you're now essentially paying a mortgage on a million dollar home as soon as you begin your career. Feel free to check/critique my rough projections.

Finance buffs call this being "home poor" and will advise against it strongly but on SDN we call this "being a doctor".

 

[oldstock]

To further drive @DermViser 's point home, a 250K loan at 7.8% interest (the 2015 gradplus rate) will accumulate and extra 60K in interest just during a three year residency. Now if you do decide to pursue a surgical field with an accompanying fellowship and push residency to 6 or even 7 years, you're looking at the possibility of up to an additional 175K added your original COA loan amount at graduation. This puts your effective loan amount at approximately $425,000 before you even can use that new six-figure salary to start making payments. Add in the modest $250K house and new car you will inevitably want to purchase and you're now essentially paying a mortgage on a million dollar home as soon as you begin your career. Feel free to check/critique my rough projections.

Finance buffs call this being "home poor" and will advise against it strongly but on SDN we call this "being a doctor".

👍👍

 

[moisne]

The non specialty 200k+ salary apparently will justify it

 

[FFH]

It's not that simple, but the ease with which otherwise unqualified borrowers are allowed to borrow huge sums of money destroys a key check against rising costs. Normally schools would be under some pressure to ensure that their costs don't balloon to absolutely insane levels because students would simply become unable to afford what the school is trying to charge. Does that mean we should do away with student loans? IMO, no. But to deny that the huge amount of freely flowing credit doesn't play a role does not reflect reality.

FWW, my institution charges nearly $100k for the third and fourth years for the total cost of attendance. Pretty insane.

Same with U of S.Carolina. All $80k plus tuition alone.
What I don't get is U of S. Dakota chatting $65k...why do they need $65k in S. Dakota?

 

[LMBLBM]

http://www.amazon.com/Maruchan-Rame...=1406816570&sr=8-1&keywords=ramen+noodle+bulk

Lets buy 1000 of these. Considering inflation, I think this is a great investment

 

[BestDoctorEver]

except some of us don't come from wealthy families, thank goodness my tuition is 20k. The average debt is probably more like 200k. Will most likely be 250k in 4 years.

Your tuition is very low... You should be thankful that you will come out with <200k debt when most people will be in the 250k + (including myself)... I don't know how I am going to be able pay back that 250k+ with a psych or PCP salary...

 

[BestDoctorEver]

It's bc the market justifies it. It's why schools like "College of Henricopolis School of Medicine" can pop up and actually be taken seriously, bc there are more than enough medical students who are willing to go. Do you believe that the increase in tuition has actually resulted in better basic science instruction to med students? Or better clinical rotations where grading is more fair? Likely not.

In-state medical schools push students to do primary care bc their state legislatures that fund them demand that they do so as they receive taxpayer funding and are accountable to the taxpayer. However, medical students do their own research and see the realities in their MS-3 clerkships.

This sounds like another Liberty University to me except it will be an allopathic med school... I guess it's a race to the bottom..