How do u get in

[slickrikk]

Can any derm residents out there tell me what it takes to get into a derm spot? Do you have to go to Harvard, AOA, massive research, know a residency director, interview at every hospital, rock boards, etc.

Give me an idea of what a weak applicant presents and what a strong applicant presents. What did u have?

thanx

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[JOEYSOBANK]

So Rikky, I know you asked for a derm resident to chime in but I am currently going through the interview process right now. I will be honest that MOST (notice I don't say ALL) applicants that I know and have met on the trail have the standard:
1.great preclinical grades
2.stellar board scores (240-5+)
3.stellar clinical grades (acing 3rd year with honors along with awesome faculty comments)
4.great LORs
5.some form of research
6.AOA (many jr. AOA)

But I think what separates those who get more than 10 interviews from those who don't is something we'll refer to as the "X" factor. This varies among great applicants and MAKES THESE APPLICANTS' ERAS FORMS STAND OUT in the selection process (which you need to happen when there over 500 people that are applying to each program for only 20-40 interview slots/program). Getting your foot into the door for an interview is key and here are a few examples of "X" factors that have helped people:
1.getting GREAT LORs from well-known/respected faculty in the field or other program directors
2.doing away rotations at specific programs and getting the people there to realize you are not fake and are really a cool person that they would love to work with for at least 3 years
3.being published, especially in well-known derm journals such as JAAD or Archives of Derm, etc.
4.doing worthwhile research that can be carried into residency at departments that have similar research interests (ex: melanoma prognostication would go a long way at more than 10 programs I have read about/seen)
5.having a PhD
6.having already finished another residency such as int med or psych(shows maturity and one would possess great consultation skills for co-residents)

The above are just a few ways that separate the applicants. They do not by any means say who would make a better dermatologist. However, the process is by far the most competitive of all residencies (yes, even plastics and rad onc) and one just needs to accumulate as many interviews as possible to increase the likelihod of matching. Of course, you can have 20+ interviews (very rare) and not match (even less likely). Or you can have 5-7 interviews and match just as well.

SlickRikk, realize that almost 1/2 of matched applicants match at either their home program or a site where an away elective was done. At 1st this data angered me, but it makes sense for the programs to take people they know, like, and can rely upon, rather than going out on a limb for someone they met for 5-8 hours on an interview day. Furthermore, there is also a large regional bias component to the whole process. I am lucky to say that I have many interviews right now, but I must admit that >75% of them come from the region I am located in. This does not mean that an applicant from NY can't get Cali interviews, it's just a little harder. You need to prove to those programs far away from your hometown that you will travel 3K miles from home for 3 years of residency. This may be done by doing an away elective far away or by some other means (see the 4th "X" factor above)

This post is not intended to scare away people who are thinking about going into derm. The field is awesome and the people are amazing. I have a friend who matched last year that was not a "stellar" applicant. He found a program that really liked him b/c he "fit in" really well. This "fitting-in" factor should not be underestimated.

Oh, one last thing. That derm board on another website, that many people speak of, may do more harm than good. Yes, it posts key information on interview dates,etc., however, if you decide to look at it do not be intimidated or psyched out. People post weird stuff on there that can be misinformative and/or malicious.

By the way, I usually don't post on here but I loved your name too much:
I got courage, and I don’t like porridge
I’ve never been to college, but got crazy knowledge
Over eighteen and my eyes are green
I wear more gold than that man on a-team

All the best,
Bank

 

[slickrikk]

So Rikky, I know you asked for a derm resident to chime in but I am currently going through the interview process right now. I will be honest that MOST (notice I don't say ALL) applicants that I know and have met on the trail have the standard:
1.great preclinical grades
2.stellar board scores (240-5+)
3.stellar clinical grades (acing 3rd year with honors along with awesome faculty comments)
4.great LORs
5.some form of research
6.AOA (many jr. AOA)

But I think what separates those who get more than 10 interviews from those who don't is something we'll refer to as the "X" factor. This varies among great applicants and MAKES THESE APPLICANTS' ERAS FORMS STAND OUT in the selection process (which you need to happen when there over 500 people that are applying to each program for only 20-40 interview slots/program). Getting your foot into the door for an interview is key and here are a few examples of "X" factors that have helped people:
1.getting GREAT LORs from well-known/respected faculty in the field or other program directors
2.doing away rotations at specific programs and getting the people there to realize you are not fake and are really a cool person that they would love to work with for at least 3 years
3.being published, especially in well-known derm journals such as JAAD or Archives of Derm, etc.
4.doing worthwhile research that can be carried into residency at departments that have similar research interests (ex: melanoma prognostication would go a long way at more than 10 programs I have read about/seen)
5.having a PhD
6.having already finished another residency such as int med or psych(shows maturity and one would possess great consultation skills for co-residents)

The above are just a few ways that separate the applicants. They do not by any means say who would make a better dermatologist. However, the process is by far the most competitive of all residencies (yes, even plastics and rad onc) and one just needs to accumulate as many interviews as possible to increase the likelihod of matching. Of course, you can have 20+ interviews (very rare) and not match (even less likely). Or you can have 5-7 interviews and match just as well.

SlickRikk, realize that almost 1/2 of matched applicants match at either their home program or a site where an away elective was done. At 1st this data angered me, but it makes sense for the programs to take people they know, like, and can rely upon, rather than going out on a limb for someone they met for 5-8 hours on an interview day. Furthermore, there is also a large regional bias component to the whole process. I am lucky to say that I have many interviews right now, but I must admit that >75% of them come from the region I am located in. This does not mean that an applicant from NY can't get Cali interviews, it's just a little harder. You need to prove to those programs far away from your hometown that you will travel 3K miles from home for 3 years of residency. This may be done by doing an away elective far away or by some other means (see the 4th "X" factor above)

This post is not intended to scare away people who are thinking about going into derm. The field is awesome and the people are amazing. I have a friend who matched last year that was not a "stellar" applicant. He found a program that really liked him b/c he "fit in" really well. This "fitting-in" factor should not be underestimated.

Oh, one last thing. That derm board on another website, that many people speak of, may do more harm than good. Yes, it posts key information on interview dates,etc., however, if you decide to look at it do not be intimidated or psyched out. People post weird stuff on there that can be misinformative and/or malicious.

By the way, I usually don't post on here but I loved your name too much:
I got courage, and I don’t like porridge
I’ve never been to college, but got crazy knowledge
Over eighteen and my eyes are green
I wear more gold than that man on a-team

All the best,
Bank

thanks a ton; great reply

good luck; hope u go where u want

hope u don't mind if i hit u up for some more info some time

slickest of all slickrikk's

 

[snoopy69]

What if you really want to do derm but don't get any residency spots. Would you try again next year? How does it work?

 

[ny skindoc]

What if you really want to do derm but don't get any residency spots. Would you try again next year? How does it work?

You can reapply,many do.But you'll need to identify things to improve your application. If you had a number of interviews the first time around but didnt match a second try may be worthwhile if you can figure out what the problem was.

 

[PathOne]

Have to agree with NY skindoc. If you get several interviews, but no offers, you can reexamine your strategy, do research or whatever to improve your stats, and reapply.
However, if you get NO or very few interviews, you should probably look elsewhere. Know of people who do lengthy research to compensate for weaknesses, e.g. a Carib. MD or less than stellar Steps, but problem is that derm is currently so madly competitive that it probably will not help. There's just too many people with spotless resumes, so if you're not grade 1A out of Med School it'll be a severely uphill battle.

 

[bigfrank]

This may sound silly, but all of my older friends who have matched derm were able to come up with some B.S. story about "why they were interested in derm" like "I had psoriasis and the dermatologist changed my life" and the like.

Everybody knew it was B.S., but they could speak [lie] with such earnesty and conviction, it had to have helped out.

 

[PathOne]

This may sound silly, but all of my older friends who have matched derm were able to come up with some B.S. story about "why they were interested in derm" like "I had psoriasis and the dermatologist changed my life" and the like.

Everybody knew it was B.S., but they could speak [lie] with such earnesty and conviction, it had to have helped out.

I wouldn't recommend anyone to claim that they recovered from psoriasis when interviewing for a derm spot - unless it's actually the case. Apparently, there's a derm PD or two who has some experience in evaluating signs of that particular disease...

It's probably also not a brilliant idea to tell the PD that the sole reason you want to go into derm is that you want to make $$$, do botox-injections and advance the field of cosmetic dermatology.

 

[tupac_don]

So Rikky, I know you asked for a derm resident to chime in but I am currently going through the interview process right now. I will be honest that MOST (notice I don't say ALL) applicants that I know and have met on the trail have the standard:
1.great preclinical grades
2.stellar board scores (240-5+)
3.stellar clinical grades (acing 3rd year with honors along with awesome faculty comments)
4.great LORs
5.some form of research
6.AOA (many jr. AOA)

But I think what separates those who get more than 10 interviews from those who don't is something we'll refer to as the "X" factor. This varies among great applicants and MAKES THESE APPLICANTS' ERAS FORMS STAND OUT in the selection process (which you need to happen when there over 500 people that are applying to each program for only 20-40 interview slots/program). Getting your foot into the door for an interview is key and here are a few examples of "X" factors that have helped people:
1.getting GREAT LORs from well-known/respected faculty in the field or other program directors
2.doing away rotations at specific programs and getting the people there to realize you are not fake and are really a cool person that they would love to work with for at least 3 years
3.being published, especially in well-known derm journals such as JAAD or Archives of Derm, etc.
4.doing worthwhile research that can be carried into residency at departments that have similar research interests (ex: melanoma prognostication would go a long way at more than 10 programs I have read about/seen)
5.having a PhD
6.having already finished another residency such as int med or psych(shows maturity and one would possess great consultation skills for co-residents)

The above are just a few ways that separate the applicants. They do not by any means say who would make a better dermatologist. However, the process is by far the most competitive of all residencies (yes, even plastics and rad onc) and one just needs to accumulate as many interviews as possible to increase the likelihod of matching. Of course, you can have 20+ interviews (very rare) and not match (even less likely). Or you can have 5-7 interviews and match just as well.

SlickRikk, realize that almost 1/2 of matched applicants match at either their home program or a site where an away elective was done. At 1st this data angered me, but it makes sense for the programs to take people they know, like, and can rely upon, rather than going out on a limb for someone they met for 5-8 hours on an interview day. Furthermore, there is also a large regional bias component to the whole process. I am lucky to say that I have many interviews right now, but I must admit that >75% of them come from the region I am located in. This does not mean that an applicant from NY can't get Cali interviews, it's just a little harder. You need to prove to those programs far away from your hometown that you will travel 3K miles from home for 3 years of residency. This may be done by doing an away elective far away or by some other means (see the 4th "X" factor above)

This post is not intended to scare away people who are thinking about going into derm. The field is awesome and the people are amazing. I have a friend who matched last year that was not a "stellar" applicant. He found a program that really liked him b/c he "fit in" really well. This "fitting-in" factor should not be underestimated.

Oh, one last thing. That derm board on another website, that many people speak of, may do more harm than good. Yes, it posts key information on interview dates,etc., however, if you decide to look at it do not be intimidated or psyched out. People post weird stuff on there that can be misinformative and/or malicious.

By the way, I usually don't post on here but I loved your name too much:
I got courage, and I don’t like porridge
I’ve never been to college, but got crazy knowledge
Over eighteen and my eyes are green
I wear more gold than that man on a-team

All the best,
Bank

I think just about anyone would make a good dermatologist. Its not like dermatology is a difficult field, so that those with the best stats are taken b/c it is so difficult and only the most intelligent can grasp it. IM or FP is more difficult and more encompassing then derm. Surgery is way above dermatology. But people who get into surgery can't make it into dermatology. "they are not good enough". Give me a break. The only reason why derm is so tough to get into, is b/c they work 40hrs a week and bring in a lot of cash in comparison with time spent working. Whereas they slave 80hrs a week in other not so lifestyle oriented specialist. Bottom line
why people go into derm is b/c of lifestyle, sure you gotta like it and have affinity for it. But the lifestyle is a huge selling point for dermatology.

 

[slickrikk]

Wow that was deep!

Did u hurt yourself coming up with those comments. Go state the obvious on your FP forum (such a difficult residency/career, please). You sound like someone who wishes they could do derm. Too bad! Have fun with that incredibly demanding and difficult FP residency.

pppppppeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaccccccccccceeeeeeeee
slickrikk

I think just about anyone would make a good dermatologist. Its not like dermatology is a difficult field, so that those with the best stats are taken b/c it is so difficult and only the most intelligent can grasp it. IM or FP is more difficult and more encompassing then derm. Surgery is way above dermatology. But people who get into surgery can't make it into dermatology. "they are not good enough". Give me a break. The only reason why derm is so tough to get into, is b/c they work 40hrs a week and bring in a lot of cash in comparison with time spent working. Whereas they slave 80hrs a week in other not so lifestyle oriented specialist. Bottom line
why people go into derm is b/c of lifestyle, sure you gotta like it and have affinity for it. But the lifestyle is a huge selling point for dermatology.

 

[medcurious]

Wow that was deep!

Did u hurt yourself coming up with those comments. Go state the obvious on your FP forum (such a difficult residency/career, please). You sound like someone who wishes they could do derm. Too bad! Have fun with that incredibly demanding and difficult FP residency.

pppppppeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaccccccccccceeeeeeeee
slickrikk

Slick RIck you are right on. That guy is obviously insecure about his chosen specialty. AND he shouldn't be. Family Medicine is a wonderful field with a world of experience waiting and just as life is what you make of it...so is your specialty....(unless you are a neurosurgeon :/) I also am interested in dermatology. Why> For one I have been interested in the aging process for years. One of the first things that shows aging is changes in the skin, and there is a world of research to be done regarding aging with dermatology-based research. I want to do a combined residency in derm/Im because I am interested in derm and the complex illness that are associated with it, as well as I will be able to have a broader knowledge base which would help in my research approaches during and after residency. SO NO, not everyone is going into derm for the hours. I am going into derm so yes, I can practice it, but I also want to do derm research part time as well to satisfy my passion for it and finally I would like to work one day a week doing IM in private practice for its specific appeal IE (variety in patients and illnesses, never gets boring...at least to me, and one can really build a relationship with a patient or at least have adaquete time to make them feel comfortable about the situation at hand. So dont hate derm peeps you! Most people going into derm are going in for the lifestyle....some like me...are going in for a mix of passion for derm and derm research and the lifestyle associated with it.

 

[plusminus]

Slick RIck you are right on. That guy is obviously insecure about his chosen specialty. AND he shouldn't be. Family Medicine is a wonderful field with a world of experience waiting and just as life is what you make of it...so is your specialty....(unless you are a neurosurgeon :/) I also am interested in dermatology. Why> For one I have been interested in the aging process for years. One of the first things that shows aging is changes in the skin, and there is a world of research to be done regarding aging with dermatology-based research. I want to do a combined residency in derm/Im because I am interested in derm and the complex illness that are associated with it, as well as I will be able to have a broader knowledge base which would help in my research approaches during and after residency. SO NO, not everyone is going into derm for the hours. I am going into derm so yes, I can practice it, but I also want to do derm research part time as well to satisfy my passion for it and finally I would like to work one day a week doing IM in private practice for its specific appeal IE (variety in patients and illnesses, never gets boring...at least to me, and one can really build a relationship with a patient or at least have adaquete time to make them feel comfortable about the situation at hand. So dont hate derm peeps you! Most people going into derm are going in for the lifestyle....some like me...are going in for a mix of passion for derm and derm research and the lifestyle associated with it.

Make no mistake about it, the competitiveness of Derm these days is a function of derm being considererd "one of the best, most difficult specialties to gain a residency in." With the prototypical medical student always wanting to be the best in everything they do, naturally these things can spiral out of control. When I ask my friends who want to do Derm why they want to do derm, they say, "Because it's the best," not "Because I love skin."
Occasionally you do find people with true passion for the field but I would say that is the exception rather than the rule.