How do you feel about someone using Adderall to score high on the MCAT?

[OCDOCDOCD]

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As someone who took Adderall for awhile in college for ADD, and who may not actually have ADD because of my reaction to it, let me just say that Adderall isn't a great way to go about studying. It'll make you focused, sure. It'll also make you hyper-excitable to the point that you start exhibiting symptoms of bipolar disorder, and speaking from personal experience, once that happens you aren't going to be getting much more studying done for the rest of the day.

Personally I've always been dubious of the idea that amphetamine will make you do better in school. Most people can do well without having to resort to controlled substances. And really, if you're in the habit of illegally obtaining prescription drugs for academic reasons you're taking a massive risk since if you get caught you can kiss med school goodbye.

 

[mmmcdowe]

I heard of a guy doing this, and it really bugged me. I've never tried it, but I've heard that it really tunnels your focus. He ended up pulling like a 35+, and he strongly states that he wouldn't have gotten close to that without it. It bugs me in two ways

1. Obviously the way it probably bothers most people in that it's an unfair advantage. To my understanding it makes you insanely efficient in studying, and if that's the case then pretty much anyone could do well on the test studying with the stuff for a few weeks.

2. The guy's going to live his entire med school career, and maybe there after, in doubt of his abilities. When you're in med school you fall back on the assumption that you're as good as anyone else there because you at least pulled a comparable score compared to them on the MCAT. When you don't have that you'll either use adderall again and again to do decent on your tests or just crash.


I dunno, it just seems terrible all around. I mean I want to be easy on the guy and say, "Well, you just try hard from here on out", but it only gets tougher from here and if you can't handle the MCAT I can't imagine handling sciences that compound on that knowledge.

It seems that people are overestimating the effect in score improvement by being on adhd meds for the test. Most data suggests that the effect is diminishing as one looks at higher achievers, whereas it allows below average students to catch up to the average rather than break the curve. If this 35+ kid would have otherwise scored in the <32 range, he probably needed to be on adhd meds to begin with. The effect they have on people without a learning disability, while real, is much less impressive (particularly in high adrenaline situations like when taking the MCAT where your focus is likely to be pretty good). As far as studying for the MCAT goes (assuming you actually study and don't clean your house 3 times), it ultimately doesn't make you a better problem solver beyond the ability to focus, nor does it increase your memory over what it would be if you had put in the time to begin with (other than shorter term types of memory). I'm not saying it shouldn't be looked down upon, only that it isn't as big of a deal as people on it sometimes like to make. I wonder sometimes if 50% of the "edge" it gives is simply more confidence.

 

[Oxygen206]

It'll make you focused, sure. It'll also make you hyper-excitable to the point that you start exhibiting symptoms of bipolar disorder, and speaking from personal experience, once that happens you aren't going to be getting much more studying done for the rest of the day.
.

So true. I gave my non-ADD boyfriend one of my pills one time because he had a huge p-chem exam but after it took effect he spent 9 hours on one problem he couldn't figure out. It ended up being a huge waste of time he could have been regularly studying instead. Another non-ADD friend of mine spent 6 hours jogging around the block it made him so hyper. These are rather unusual reactions to it though, most people just have super concentration, lose their appetite, and can't sleep. One friend did report heart palpitations though...that was scary.

 

[Sephiroth]

commonly[/B] causes adverse reactions, which certainly wouldn't help me or others. Being nervous, while having palpitations, dry mouth, a head ache, and diarrhea coupled with your natural anxiety and the "WOW-OMFG" factor of the MCAT is pretty much the worst thing that can possibly happen to you.

No thanks. I'd rather minimize my chances of crapping myself.

I think this is an important point to make about Adderral. The person taking the meds is taking an significant risk. This is frequently overlooked.

I agree with this, and also I think people vastly overrate what adderall can do for you. I'm prescribed it, and all it does is help me not constantly start goin "hmm, i wonder about this other completely irrelevant thing..." in my head. I doesn't bestow any super powers or enhance one's reasoning ability. And yes, it causes some gastric distress for me too, so I only take very small doses (like 1/4th a pill) at a time. I would not take any significant amount immediately before a long test as I think that would do more harm than good due to this. And if anyone is curious, the day of my MCAT, I took that same 1/4 dose first thing in the morning, several hours before my test, so I wasn't like "feeling it" or whatever at that point (nor would I want to be, personally I don't like the feeling).

 

[mapandterritory]

[YOUTUBE]qeGyxODATtA[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Sephiroth]

[YOUTUBE]qeGyxODATtA[/YOUTUBE]

I just started watching Community a few days ago and am just about through season 1. Love it.

 

[ShoTyme]

Most of you have missed the real point in that it's not like taking the drug automatically equals a higher score. Taking the drug may help focus more during study time. But in all reality, it's not going to magically make you smarter. Why focus so much on what other people are doing? Is it something you can change? The guy still showed that he knew the material and will likely be able to replicate his results. Life isn't fair. I'm sure there will be things in medical school you find unfair. Get used to it.

 

[mapandterritory]

I just started watching Community a few days ago and am just about through season 1. Love it.

Annie reminds me of myself in some ways, minus the Adderall. 😀

I've only seen a few episodes, although I thought Adderall Annie would be appropriate for this thread. I'm sad because I kept on seeing the Tyrion avatar in the religion thread, and I've been too lazy to watch the second season ever since we stopped paying for HBO. D:

 

[gettheleadout]

It isn't illegal. It's a controlled substance. Get your facts straight. Immoral? Ha.

Use of prescription drugs not prescribed to you is illegal. This topic isn't discussing test takers who are prescribed adderall.

Every time the word adderral has been used in this stupid discussion, you can substitute "corrective lenses" and the argument is the exact same. How about lets not show your jealousy for those of us who score in the mid-30s...that's all this is. Some guy is pissy because he can't get that score and needs a scape goat.

Btw I wear corrective lenses...never used adderral

Poor vision + corrective lenses = Normal vision
ADHD + adderall = (hopefully) no ADHD (normal)
normal + adderall = (possibly) hyperfocus/attention/whatever

The idea that someone without medical need using adderall is equivalent to a person with impaired vision using corrective lenses is logically flawed.

Also, while I think the discussion of what effects adderall will actually have on the test taker is interesting, let's not confuse whether or not it confers an advantage with the legal nature of its use. Maybe you end up with a lower score or no change at all taking adderall, but regardless it's illegal to take it and a violation of the test rules to do so.

 

[GladifImakeit]

This is a tough one. I am very opposed to the idea of using a prescription drug to get an unfair advantage, but I drink coffee everyday. Sometimes I drink 2 rockstars and a 5-hour energy before a test - is that cheating too? I am also clearly addicted as I get a terrible headache without it.

 

[gettheleadout]

This is a tough one. I am very opposed to the idea of using a prescription drug to get an unfair advantage, but I drink coffee everyday. Sometimes I drink 2 rockstars and a 5-hour energy before a test - is that cheating too?

Is drinking coffee illegal? Pardon the rhetorical question but since I assume we're not considering test takers who have medical need for such medication (ADHD, etc.) then everyone who we're talking about who uses these prescription medications during testing is committing a crime. As a society we've determined that caffeine does not merit regulation as a controlled substance, so presumably its use as a stimulant is acceptable.

 

[GladifImakeit]

Maybe it's time to drug test before standardized exams then. What do you think?

 

[Sephiroth]

Maybe it's time to drug test before standardized exams then. What do you think?

Applying to med school is expensive enough, the cost associated with this would be outrageous. Also, legal issues aside, I really don't think any of these drugs generate the advantage you think they do to warrant such extreme measures.

 

[235788]

Applying to med school is expensive enough, the cost associated with this would be outrageous. Also, legal issues aside, I really don't think any of these drugs generate the advantage you think they do to warrant such extreme measures.

plus it's only in your system a short while (less than a week). The people who take the drug would detox and get it out of their system in 2-3 days = administration wouldn't catch people unless it was random, which is unrealistic.

 

[gettheleadout]

plus it's only in your system a short while (less than a week). The people who take the drug would detox and get it out of their system in 2-3 days = administration wouldn't catch people unless it was random, which is unrealistic.

I'm sure there would be a way to detect the drug while it's in one's system though, i.e. in the case of one who took it for use during the test.

Not that this sort of measure would necessarily be pragmatic, just thinking...

 

[Fed]

I'm in favor of mandatory drug testing before each MCAT writing. Would it really be that expensive? I mean, the test is already $200+. It's not that big of a deal to go pee in a cup. You take the exam and if your urine test later turns up positive, you either contest the result or have your score nullified and you're deferred from testing for a year. Fine by me.

 

[freshbagels]

You guys don't know how ADHD or Adderall work. Those with a neurotypical brain receive little to no boost to their focusing abilities; Adderall works in the ADHD brain as a dopamine reuptake inhibitor, as the ADHD brain is hypodopaminergic.

 

[mmmcdowe]

I'm sure there would be a way to detect the drug while it's in one's system though, i.e. in the case of one who took it for use during the test.

Not that this sort of measure would necessarily be pragmatic, just thinking...

It could be like those dui devices, you'd have to pee in the cup after every break 😀

 

[trackstr22]

Let's be honest, many people on these forums, although they will not admit would use adderall if it was the only way that they could score high on the MCAT and get into medical school.

 

[Napoletana1007]

Taking Adderall to take the MCAT is not a good idea... it would cause you to over analyze and potentially not finish your exam. It alters your perception of time. It's not that much of a wonder drug, your friend may think that he wouldn't have made such a high score without adderall but I'm willing to bet that he would have been pretty close to it.

 

[neoevolution]

Even with drug testing, getting an Adderall prescription isn't hard to fake synptoms for. Read the articles linked about HS students getting legal supplies of it.

 

[235788]

You guys don't know how ADHD or Adderall work. Those with a neurotypical brain receive little to no boost to their focusing abilities; Adderall works in the ADHD brain as a dopamine reuptake inhibitor, as the ADHD brain is hypodopaminergic.

lol, have you ever taken it? Or talked to someone who has (illegally)?

 

[Tatiana3325]

Taking Adderall to take the MCAT is not a good idea... it would cause you to over analyze and potentially not finish your exam. It alters your perception of time. It's not that much of a wonder drug, your friend may think that he wouldn't have made such a high score without adderall but I'm willing to bet that he would have been pretty close to it.

This is so true.

These stimulants seem to only work well for those who really need it. Everyone I know without ADHD, who score well on things on their own, who has taken adderall has experienced the same weird altered perception if time you've described. They hate it. Whereas people who take it bc they have a prescription and have been diagnosed with ADHD seem to do very well with it.

So I don't think it gives anyone who doesn't probably already need it to some degree an advantage.

 

[SpecterGT260]

It has been stated but I just wanted to re-emphasize:
adderall is not the "limitless" pill that people think it is. It is just amphetamine. It will stay off the fatigue you feel naturally which can give you some extra study time without hating yourself. For ADD/ADHD people this feeling comes on much faster so this bump levels the playing field.
I've never considered the MCAT to be a "what do you know" sort of test to begin with so I dont think adderall is going to give that much of a advantage.

 

[freshbagels]

lol, have you ever taken it? Or talked to someone who has (illegally)?

Yes, I take it as one part of my treatment for ADHD. I know many who have taken it illegally, and as has been stated the only effects they feel are the generalized amphetamine ones.

 

[brandonh4]

People who use legality as a barometer for morality need to spend a little more time thinking and a little less time speaking.

 

[SpecterGT260]

People who use legality as a barometer for morality need to spend a little more time thinking and a little less time speaking.

if you download music from a P2P site you will not make a good doctor

 

[sender]

I bet taking an MCAT prep course helps your score more than Adderall would. Not everyone can afford a prep course - does that make them immoral? With or without Adderall, the playing field isn't level.

Drink some coffee 👍

 

[Sephiroth]

I bet taking an MCAT prep course helps your score more than Adderall would. Not everyone can afford a prep course - does that make them immoral? With or without Adderall, the playing field isn't level.

Drink some coffee 👍

Honestly, I feel more moral outrage over this fact than anyone using adderall. Even moreso, the fact that the AAMC themselves charges money for their old tests (and theirs are obviously the best practice tests to use), which can put the poor at a disadvantage I take issue with. This I believe is worse than the level of unfairness illegal adderall use could produce.

 

[gettheleadout]

People who use legality as a barometer for morality need to spend a little more time thinking and a little less time speaking.

For the record, since I've mentioned legality and few times and your post is probably directed at least somewhat toward me, I haven't equated legality with morality or drawn any sort of inference from the former. Using legality as a grounds for "cheating" status is valid, IMO, but I haven't commented at all on the morality of using adderall in itself.

 

[cincincyreds]

There was just an article about adderall being used by high school kids to improve grades and such. I think if you need adderall to boost your MCAT so you can get into medical school, you will be a bad doctor. I mean how are you going to focus yourself. Eventually you will need so much adderall you will go insane.

I think what Adderall does is improve your memory and help you focus. Thos are 2 things that are needed on standardized exams. But you still need the basic skills first. Kind of like a baseball player on steroids. Steroids won't helpe me hit 60 home runs, but if it adds 20 feet to each swing for Barry Bonds, well you know the deal on that.

 

[mapandterritory]

Honestly, I feel more moral outrage over this fact than anyone using adderall. Even moreso, the fact that the AAMC themselves charges money for their old tests (and theirs are obviously the best practice tests to use), which can put the poor at a disadvantage I take issue with. This I believe is worse than the level of unfairness illegal adderall use could produce.

Although I hinted at that earlier in the thread (I'm all for a meritocracy, but to think that we really live in one is naive at best), I never mentioned my love of the OpenCourseWare/e-learning movements. There are a lot free resources available online that anyone can use. Granted, it would be harder for someone to filter out the relevant information if they were preparing for the MCAT, but I don't see how that can stop online communities (with volunteers and resources modeled after past exams) from springing up.

 

[MDschoolorbust]

Honestly, I feel more moral outrage over this fact than anyone using adderall. Even moreso, the fact that the AAMC themselves charges money for their old tests (and theirs are obviously the best practice tests to use), which can put the poor at a disadvantage I take issue with. This I believe is worse than the level of unfairness illegal adderall use could produce.

Hence why the fee assistance program is in existence.

 

[Tatiana3325]

I think that it's reasonable to think that individuals who need adderall to earn high marks, despite having the desire and motivation to do so, probably need a stimulant like adderall XR or Concerta or the short acting versions......because they have some level of ADHD or depression or whatever to begin with.

Seems like the biggest issue isn't that students are using it without a prescription but rather that it's availability and abuse is preventing or delaying proper treatment of underlying mental disorders.

 

[AestheticGod]

From my "Epocrates" app on my phone:

Serious Reactions:
dependency, abuse
withdrawal if abrupt D/C (long-term use)
depression
psychosis
mania
aggressive behavior
Tourette syndrome
HTN, severe
MI
Stroke
Sudden Death (my favorite -_-)
cardiomyopathy (long-term use)
seizures
growth suppression (long-term use)
hypersensitivity rxn
anaphylaxis
angioedema
Stevens-Johnson syndrome
toxic epidermal necrolysis

Common Reactions
anorexia
insomnia
abdominal pain
headache
emotional lability
weight loss
nervousness
dry mouth
nausea/vomiting
asthenia
diarrhea
dyspepsia
dizziness
palpitations
elevated BP
tachycardia
tremor
dyskinesia
constipation
libido changes
impotence
visual disturbances
motor/phonic tic exacerbation

I think most people never even look at adverse reactions, and never consider how truly common they are. Everyone always focuses on the positive, but never considers the risks.

Personally I suffer from ridiculous anxiety, and my stomach turns itself inside out when a huge event is about to occur (ie: MCAT in a few hours). Taking adderral commonly causes adverse reactions, which certainly wouldn't help me or others. Being nervous, while having palpitations, dry mouth, a head ache, and diarrhea coupled with your natural anxiety and the "WOW-OMFG" factor of the MCAT is pretty much the worst thing that can possibly happen to you.

No thanks. I'd rather minimize my chances of crapping myself.

I think this is an important point to make about Adderral. The person taking the meds is taking an significant risk. This is frequently overlooked.

Are you going to be diagnosing all your patients like this? You realize that EVERY medication has side affects, right? There's no medication that's 100% safe, you're ALWAYS taking a risk. But in the end, does the risk out weight the positives?

For your case, you have social anxiety, so if you take it, it'll increase it..so don't take it. That doesn't mean that no one else should take it. Besides, you talk as if the chance of those side affects are even above 50%..if it was, the FDA wouldn't have ever let it go through the first 3 years of trials.

 

[mapandterritory]

Hence why the fee assistance program is in existence.

I was aware of the assistance for application fees, but I did not know it also provided free past exams. Since I just seriously started to consider med school, I haven't really looked into that yet. That is good to know, although I agree with Sephiroth in that my moral outrage at those taking Adderall only goes so far.

 

[Myuu]

The misconception and gross ignorance of ADHD of some in this thread is just sad.

 

[AestheticGod]

Sure it's illegal, but there is no data (correct me if I'm wrong) proving that adderall improves academic performance.

Therefore, it's not "cheating" to eat an adderall before, during, or after your studying or MCAT exam day.

You're wrong.

Why is there a thread like this EVERY other week? I would rather see threads like "3.9 gpa, 36mcat score. Should i apply DO?"
Cmon people, let's all be honest:

BOTTOM LINE:

-IF YOU DON'T HAVE ADHD AND YOU'RE TAKING ADDERALL, THEN YOU'RE CHEATING AND ABUSING THE SYSTEM.
-IF YOU HAVE ADHD AND ARE TAKING ADDERALL, THEN YOU'RE JUST PUTTING YOURSELF IN THE SAME LEVEL AS OTHERS, THEREFORE IT'S NOT CHEATING.
-EVERY DRUG HAS SIDE AFFECTS, IF THE POSITIVES OUTWEIGH THE NEGATIVES, THEN TAKE IT. IT'S UP TO THE INDIVIDUAL TO DECIDE WHAT IS MORE IMPORTANT TO THEM.

 

[Tatiana3325]

The misconception and gross ignorance of ADHD of some in this thread is just sad.

Couldnt agree more.

 

[AestheticGod]

The misconception and gross ignorance of ADHD of some in this thread is just sad.

What's your opinion on it?

 

[GladifImakeit]

Perhaps you could enlighten us?

 

[UCFKnight]

Study for MCAT high. Take MCAT high. Get high score?

Hahahaha

This whole discussion is pointless. It's like arguing about health care reform.

 

[Sephiroth]

Hence why the fee assistance program is in existence.

To my knowledge, there is no fee assistance for their practice tests.

 

[Tummytroubles]

This thread is disturbing. I really want to go to med school but I'm not crazy engough to take performance enhancing drugs. You can say I don't want it engough but I do, I'm just not crazy engough to mess with my brain chemistry for the sake of being able to cram more. Forget it, I'll just work on my time management skills.

 

[Lifeman]

It's funny how some people are like "Omg its against the law, its wrong!". Who cares what the law says about what you do to yourself. During the prohibition, would you think that alcohol is morally wrong? Then the next year, after it is legalized, that alcohol is okay to drink? Are you really going to have the reason you do not smoke marijuana, be because someone rich guy wanted to make more profits on his paper industry, so he lobbied to make it illegal? Grow a pair of balls and think for yourself, you sheep.

 

[freshbagels]

-IF YOU DON'T HAVE ADHD AND YOU'RE TAKING ADDERALL, THEN YOU'RE CHEATING AND ABUSING THE SYSTEM.

This is incorrect. Adderall in the non-ADHD brain does not improve mental performance beyond staving off fatigue (analogously to caffeine).

 

[linebacker57]

I agree with thego2guy and drzaius. Adderall isn't some miracle drug that makes you smart, and with all its potential adverse reactions it doesn't even help everyone. I myself received a year's worth of refillable prescriptions for adderall after just one cursory meeting with a neurologist--and after taking it for a week, I never ended up taking it again. Adderall made me unfocused, but that's just my own internal chemistry, and it does help a lot of people. Maybe this guy who used adderall to study for/take the MCAT actually had serious ADHD, and, despite being able to get by in regular college classes, needed something to help him focus on an abnormally long, 5.5-hour exam. Even if he doesn't have ADHD, who cares? It's not like adderall relieved him of the need to study for the test. He had to work for that score, just like everyone else. Don't hate the player, hate the game.

Ok, I know its a little thing but I just gotta point it out, Adderall is a CII drug and therefore not refillable in the United States, under the controlled substances act. Just sayin...

 

[mmmcdowe]

This is incorrect. Adderall in the non-ADHD brain does not improve mental performance beyond staving off fatigue (analogously to caffeine).

No, that's not quite true. It does improve focus and some short term memory in "normal" individuals. The data are mixed, but everyone can agree that the effect is far less notable than in those with ADHD.

 

[911 Turbo]

The misconception and gross ignorance of ADHD of some in this thread is just sad.

Yeah seriously you do this on so many threads (just make a comment about what other people said).

What do YOU think?

 

[freshbagels]

No, that's not quite true. It does improve focus and some short term memory in "normal" individuals. The data are mixed, but everyone can agree that the effect is far less notable than in those with ADHD.

I'd be interested to see the data on this. I don't know how, mechanistically, amphetamines would produce such an effect in the normal brain.