How do you pay off 400-500K in school loans?

[Destiny11]

How do you do it in a timely manner? Have you or do you know anyone that actually was able to pay it off (without parental help or military/NHSC)?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[psiyung]

workout a lot and become a private dancer

 

[AlyssaRof2012]

Dave Ramsey method. And possibly a side hustle.

 

[Incis0r]

I've often wondered this myself.

Part of the problem is that 400K-500K loans are relatively new...our generation of dentists will be among the first to have them. So you're not going to find a 40-year old dentist who has paid it off (or even a 30-year old dentist). It's going to take these new dentists time to pay it off.

You mentioned "timely manner"- so I will assume you are NOT doing IBR/PAYE which are over 25-30 year periods (also, if you used a 3K/month 30 year-repayment that is NOT IBR/PAYE, you would eventually pay a total of around $1.2M at the end of 30 years).

So, in my approach, I'll assume that you are willing to work a little harder than the average dentist, and that you want to pay them off ASAP ("timely manner"). I will also assume be on the conservative side and assume that your hourly income NEVER increases. All my calculations are in today's dollars.

Let's figure this out...

The typical starting salary for a dentist working 50 weeks a year at 40 hours a week = $120K pre-tax. That's $60/hr.

Let's say you pick up side hustle like @AlyssaRof2012 said and begin to work 60 hrs a week. Salary? $180K.

Assuming one personal exemption, the max contribution to tax-advantaged retirement accounts (18K...i'll assume you don't get an HSA), and a standard deduction, your federal tax burden comes out to $35,547/year.

Let's assume you live in a state with no state income tax.

$180,000-$18,000 Retirement-$35,547 taxes = $126,453 post-tax income/year.

Now, there are going to be professional fees, licensing fees, CE you want to take that bosses won't cover, etc.. Let's just put a budget of $5K aside for that.

You have $121,453 left.

Now, a single person can live comfortably on $3K/month (assuming you aren't in NYC or San Francisco or some other place with an outrageous cost of living). So take out $36K for living expenses including food, housing, vehicle, etc.

$85,453 left to throw at your loans.

Let's assume you graduated with $450K loans, and that you pay the loans after interest accumulates on them.

End of year 1: $450K * 1.07 = $481.5K - $85.4K payment = $396.1K.
End of year 2: $396.1K * 1.07 =$423.8K- $85.4K payment = $338.4K
End of year 3: $338.4K * 1.07 = $362K- $85.4K payment = $276.6K
End of year 4: $276.6K*1.07=$296K- $85.4K payment = $210.6K
End of year 5: $210,600*1.07 = $225.3K- $85.4K payment = $140K
End of year 6: $140K*1.07= $150k-85.4k payment = $64.6K
Year 7: loans paid off.

So, your answer: seven years. Working seven years, 50 weeks a year, at 60 hours a week, living on $36K a year, maxing out your retirement accounts each year, you should be able to pay off a $450K student loan. Again, this assumes your hourly wage never increases. If it does increase, then obviously your time horizon will be shorter.

Obviously there are other strategies out there. Build a practice for more cash flow. Specialize for more cash flow. IBR/PAYE. Military loan repayment. NHSC loan repayment.

But this was just intended to be one example/sample calculation. Hope it helped!

 

[dp93]

I've often wondered this myself.

Part of the problem is that 400K-500K loans are relatively new...our generation of dentists will be among the first to have them. So you're not going to find a 40-year old dentist who has paid it off (or even a 30-year old dentist). It's going to take these new dentists time to pay it off.

You mentioned "timely manner"- so I will assume you are NOT doing IBR/PAYE which are over 25-30 year periods (if you were, it would be just above 3K/month for a total of around $1.2M at the end of 30 years).

So, in my approach, I'll assume that you are willing to work a little harder than the average dentist, and that you want to pay them off ASAP ("timely manner"). I will also assume be on the conservative side and assume that your hourly income NEVER increases. All my calculations are in today's dollars.

Let's figure this out...

The typical starting salary for a dentist working 50 weeks a year at 40 hours a week = $120K pre-tax. That's $60/hr.

Let's say you pick up side hustle like @AlyssaRof2012 said and begin to work 60 hrs a week. Salary? $180K.

Assuming one personal exemption, the max contribution to tax-advantaged retirement accounts (18K...i'll assume you don't get an HSA), and a standard deduction, your federal tax burden comes out to $35,547/year.

Let's assume you live in a state with no state income tax.

$180,000-$18,000 Retirement-$35,547 taxes = $126,453 post-tax income/year.

Now, there are going to be professional fees, licensing fees, CE you want to take that bosses won't cover, etc.. Let's just put a budget of $5K aside for that.

You have $121,453 left.

Now, a single person can live comfortably on $3K/month (assuming you aren't in NYC or San Francisco or some other place with an outrageous cost of living). So take out $36K for living expenses including food, housing, vehicle, etc.

$85,453 left to throw at your loans.

Let's assume you graduated with $450K loans, and that you pay the loans after interest accumulates on them.

End of year 1: $450K * 1.07 = $481.5K - $85.4K payment = $396.1K.
End of year 2: $396.1K * 1.07 =$423.8K- $85.4K payment = $338.4K
End of year 3: $338.4K * 1.07 = $362K- $85.4K payment = $276.6K
End of year 4: $276.6K*1.07=$296K- $85.4K payment = $210.6K
End of year 5: $210,600*1.07 = $225.3K- $85.4K payment = $140K
End of year 6: $140K*1.07= $150k-85.4k payment = $64.6K
Year 7: loans paid off.

So, your answer: seven years. Working seven years, 50 weeks a year, at 60 hours a week, living on $36K a year, maxing out your retirement accounts each year, you should be able to pay off a $450K student loan. Again, this assumes your hourly wage never increases. If it does increase, then obviously your time horizon will be shorter.

Obviously there are other strategies out there. Build a practice for more cash flow. Specialize for more cash flow. IBR/PAYE. Military loan repayment. NHSC loan repayment.

But this was just intended to be one example/sample calculation. Hope it helped!

you're also assuming that your starting income is 180k. Which is rather bold for a general dentist right outta school. That seems more like a 3rd or 4th year salary

 

[Incis0r]

you're also assuming that your starting income is 180k. Which is rather bold for a general dentist right outta school. That seems more like a 3rd or 4th year salary

I would agree with you that it is bold, IF you're talking about a 40 hour work week.

Do you agree that 120K for 40 hrs/week is reasonable? If so, just extrapolate it to 60 hours ($180K). Remember we are talking pre-tax dollars here.

Remember, in my post, I emphasized a 60 hour work week for a 180K income. Assuming you get paid at the same wage rate ($60/hour which is what many new grads can get at a corp), it is reasonable to expect 180K for 60 hours a week.

 

[dp93]

60 hours is quite the work week. No most corporate chains don't have that many hours available to the best of my knowledge. You'd probably be working one full time job and part time at another person's clinic or another corp chain assuming you find someone who wants a part time employee. Heck even if they did, i would never want to work that many hours.

 

[LFA20]

How do you do it in a timely manner? Have you or do you know anyone that actually was able to pay it off (without parental help or military/NHSC)?

you should have joined military/nhsc

 

[LFA20]

I would agree with you that it is bold, IF you're talking about a 40 hour work week.

Do you agree that 120K for 40 hrs/week is reasonable? If so, just extrapolate it to 60 hours ($180K). Remember we are talking pre-tax dollars here.

Remember, in my post, I emphasized a 60 hour work week for a 180K income. Assuming you get paid at the same wage rate ($60/hour which is what many new grads can get at a corp), it is reasonable to expect 180K for 60 hours a week.

not a chance you will make 180k starting...

 

[LFA20]

if you are lucky you will make 120k+

 

[Incis0r]

60 hours is quite the work week. No most corporate chains don't have that many hours available to the best of my knowledge. You'd probably be working one full time job and part time at another person's clinic or another corp chain assuming you find someone who wants a part time employee. Heck even if they did, i would never want to work that many hours.

Never said it would be easy, but then again, neither is getting out of 450K debt ASAP.

I know plenty of people who would kill for a shot in a profession such as ours, and who would be willing to work 60 hours a week for it. There are many people in fields outside dentistry who work 60+ hrs a week in their job.

And yeah, the assumption is multiple employers.

not a chance you will make 180k starting...

180K starting is based on a 60 hour workweek, not 40.
Either way, it's just a sample calculation to give the OP some idea of what to expect.

 

[allantois]

Whoever is going 500K in debt upon graduation for a 120K job is totally nuts. You'd be better off as a science teacher.

I know plenty of people who would kill for a shot in a profession such as ours, and who would be willing to work 60 hours a week for it. There are many people in fields outside dentistry who work 60+ hrs a week in their job.

People go into dentistry because it's a lifestyle profession. One might as well go into medicine if they are OK with working 60 hour weeks; you'd end up with less debt, better back and could do loan forgiveness.

 

[navydentist]

60 hours a week is an insane recipe for burnout. The reason dentists work low hours is because of the inevitable chronic back/neck pain that you will have from being chairside. Once they are there they don't go away. Do not sacrifice your health for student loans.

I'm telling you, do not plan on working chairside 60 hours a week, it is not sustainable, and you will regret it once your body hurts.

 

[navydentist]

How do you do it in a timely manner? Have you or do you know anyone that actually was able to pay it off (without parental help or military/NHSC)?

If you want to pay this off without any outside resources, you need to become a practice owner as soon as possible. It's never gonna happen working for $500/day or whatever these corporate chop shops are offering these days.

Personally I think it's insane to spend $500k to go to dental school unless someone else is paying. This is a good job, but it's not that great.

 

[68PGunner]

If you go into 400-500K debt to get a 60hr/wk job, you might as well sell your soul to finance and become a banker in the first place. I personally think that any debt over 300K isn't worth it in the long run. Given that scenario, you might as well consider the military or work for the government for 2 decades to have that money forgiven.

 

[jenfromdablock]

I've often wondered this myself.

Part of the problem is that 400K-500K loans are relatively new...our generation of dentists will be among the first to have them. So you're not going to find a 40-year old dentist who has paid it off (or even a 30-year old dentist). It's going to take these new dentists time to pay it off.

You mentioned "timely manner"- so I will assume you are NOT doing IBR/PAYE which are over 25-30 year periods (if you were, it would be just above 3K/month for a total of around $1.2M at the end of 30 years).

So, in my approach, I'll assume that you are willing to work a little harder than the average dentist, and that you want to pay them off ASAP ("timely manner"). I will also assume be on the conservative side and assume that your hourly income NEVER increases. All my calculations are in today's dollars.

Let's figure this out...

The typical starting salary for a dentist working 50 weeks a year at 40 hours a week = $120K pre-tax. That's $60/hr.

Let's say you pick up side hustle like @AlyssaRof2012 said and begin to work 60 hrs a week. Salary? $180K.

Assuming one personal exemption, the max contribution to tax-advantaged retirement accounts (18K...i'll assume you don't get an HSA), and a standard deduction, your federal tax burden comes out to $35,547/year.

Let's assume you live in a state with no state income tax.

$180,000-$18,000 Retirement-$35,547 taxes = $126,453 post-tax income/year.

Now, there are going to be professional fees, licensing fees, CE you want to take that bosses won't cover, etc.. Let's just put a budget of $5K aside for that.

You have $121,453 left.

Now, a single person can live comfortably on $3K/month (assuming you aren't in NYC or San Francisco or some other place with an outrageous cost of living). So take out $36K for living expenses including food, housing, vehicle, etc.

$85,453 left to throw at your loans.

Let's assume you graduated with $450K loans, and that you pay the loans after interest accumulates on them.

End of year 1: $450K * 1.07 = $481.5K - $85.4K payment = $396.1K.
End of year 2: $396.1K * 1.07 =$423.8K- $85.4K payment = $338.4K
End of year 3: $338.4K * 1.07 = $362K- $85.4K payment = $276.6K
End of year 4: $276.6K*1.07=$296K- $85.4K payment = $210.6K
End of year 5: $210,600*1.07 = $225.3K- $85.4K payment = $140K
End of year 6: $140K*1.07= $150k-85.4k payment = $64.6K
Year 7: loans paid off.

So, your answer: seven years. Working seven years, 50 weeks a year, at 60 hours a week, living on $36K a year, maxing out your retirement accounts each year, you should be able to pay off a $450K student loan. Again, this assumes your hourly wage never increases. If it does increase, then obviously your time horizon will be shorter.

Obviously there are other strategies out there. Build a practice for more cash flow. Specialize for more cash flow. IBR/PAYE. Military loan repayment. NHSC loan repayment.

But this was just intended to be one example/sample calculation. Hope it helped!

PAYE is not near 1.2 million. PAYE in the situation the OP mentioned is more like 550k total. 10% for 20 years + the tax bomb = around 550k total. Do the math, I've done it.

 

[Incis0r]

People go into dentistry because it's a lifestyle profession. One might as well go into medicine if they are OK with working 60 hour weeks; you'd end up with less debt, better back and could do loan forgiveness.

I agree with this; but remember, the OP asked how it can be paid off in a "timely" manner. I took that to mean something less than 10 years. I tailored my math to the OP's situation.

So if you want to knock out a 450K loan that quickly, something has to give, you know? Either you work longer every week, specialize for a higher income, or as Navydentist says below, get into practice ownership.

If you want to pay this off without any outside resources, you need to become a practice owner as soon as possible. It's never gonna happen working for $500/day or whatever these corporate chop shops are offering these days.

This is potentially a solid idea as well, but that often comes with additional debt, and given the premise of the question- to rid themselves of student debt in a "timely" manner, I doubt the OP would want to take on practice debt, even if it is considered "good debt."

PAYE is not near 1.2 million. PAYE in the situation the OP mentioned is more like 550k total. 10% for 20 years + the tax bomb = around 550k total. Do the math, I've done it.

Good catch- I mixed up PAYE with a normal 30-year repayment. Obviously you wouldn't pay $3K/month for 30 years (which is what led to the $1.2M number) in PAYE. Calculation error.

One thing I would caution you about is being so definitive about the tax bomb and total damage done. You don't know what tax rates will be like in 25-30 years. The tax bomb could be substantially higher at that point. This is all assuming that the PAYE program, something that was not intended for dentists, survives into the future.

In fact, uncertainty in tax rates is something the OP should consider when reviewing my own calculations as well.

 

[jenfromdablock]

I agree with this; but remember, the OP asked how it can be paid off in a "timely" manner. I took that to mean something less than 10 years. I tailored my math to the OP's situation.

So if you want to knock out a 450K loan that quickly, something has to give, you know? Either you work longer every week, specialize for a higher income, or as Navydentist says below, get into practice ownership.




This is potentially a solid idea as well, but that often comes with additional debt, and given the premise of the question- to rid themselves of student debt in a "timely" manner, I doubt the OP would want to take on practice debt, even if it is considered "good debt."



Good catch- I mixed up PAYE with a normal 30-year repayment. Obviously you wouldn't pay $3K/month for 30 years (which is what led to the $1.2M number) in PAYE. Calculation error.

One thing I would caution you about is being so definitive about the tax bomb and total damage done. You don't know what tax rates will be like in 25-30 years. The tax bomb could be substantially higher at that point. This is all assuming that the PAYE program, something that was not intended for dentists, survives into the future.

In fact, uncertainty in tax rates is something the OP should consider when reviewing my own calculations as well.

Yeah 10% over 20 years over an average dentist's income starting at 120k and increasing 3% each year + the tax bomb is about half a million making the assumptions I'm making.

As far as the viability of the program, PAYE is here to stay. Hell, they just EXPANDED PAYE to everyone with loans before October 2007. The new program is called REPAYE, and it's 25 years instead of 20 and 50% of interest is capitalized. Spouses's income also counts. Overall, it's worse than PAYE but it's certainly better than nothing.

As for as PAYE/REPAYE staying put, sure a new Congress can wipe them out but I'm fairly certain everyone under these programs will be grandfathered in. They won't kick people off the rolls during the 19th year LOL.

 

[DaleDoback]

How do you do it in a timely manner? Have you or do you know anyone that actually was able to pay it off (without parental help or military/NHSC)?

To the OP, I pay off 4-500k of loans by one set of third molars at a time.

 

[navydentist]

To the OP, I pay off 4-500k of loans by one set of third molars at a time.

Yep. If you want to pay off your $400-500k in loans in one year, become an OMS. The real ballers of dentistry.

 

[jeffk805dent]

Yep. If you want to pay off your $400-500k in loans in one year, become an OMS. The real ballers of dentistry.

my wife is an oral surgeon, can attest that even with the extra years for residency and loan deferment, Oral Surgery is the way to go. Even in saturated areas such as Los Angeles or Phoenix, they easily can make $300k.

Of course the catch is the applicant has to be incredibly smart and hard working to match into OMS.

 

[oralcare123]

my wife is an oral surgeon, can attest that even with the extra years for residency and loan deferment, Oral Surgery is the way to go. Even in saturated areas such as Los Angeles or Phoenix, they easily can make $300k.

Of course the catch is the applicant has to be incredibly smart and hard working to match into OMS.

Sure, I was just offered to place a bone graft for my son after wisdom teeth removal. Good way to make money

 

[DaleDoback]

Sure, I was just offered to place a bone graft for my son after wisdom teeth removal. Good way to make money

Can't argue with Perio literature.

That's insane and not the norm. It would take me longer to socket graft each site than it would to just move on to my next set of thirds.

 

[oralcare123]

Can't argue with Perio literature.

That's insane and not the norm. It would take me longer to socket graft each site than it would to just move on to my next set of thirds.

Houses are very expensive here

 

[JTheHopeful]

60 hours a week is an insane recipe for burnout. The reason dentists work low hours is because of the inevitable chronic back/neck pain that you will have from being chairside. Once they are there they don't go away. Do not sacrifice your health for student loans.

I'm telling you, do not plan on working chairside 60 hours a week, it is not sustainable, and you will regret it once your body hurts.

My dad has worked 12 hour work days, 6 days a week for over 20 years as a machinist. Not once has he complained about dealing with "too much pain". So honestly, working chairside as a dentist is COMPLETELY manageable.

 

[navydentist]

My dad has worked 12 hour work days, 6 days a week for over 20 years as a machinist. Not once has he complained about dealing with "too much pain". So honestly, working chairside as a dentist is COMPLETELY manageable.

The fact that we're even discussing doing dentistry for 60hrs /wk goes to show how this profession is changing. I have no interest in looking like Quasimodo to make a living. That's just me though!

 

[jeffk805dent]

My dad has worked 12 hour work days, 6 days a week for over 20 years as a machinist. Not once has he complained about dealing with "too much pain". So honestly, working chairside as a dentist is COMPLETELY manageable.

I get the feeling your viewpoint will change once you work as an associate dentist.

Machinists dont have to deal with $300,000+ debt, 4 years of schooling and dental board exams on top of dealing with back pain

 

[JTheHopeful]

I get the feeling your viewpoint will change once you work as an associate dentist.

Machinists dont have to deal with $300,000+ debt, 4 years of schooling and dental board exams on top of dealing with back pain

You knew what you signed up for when you applied to dental school so in all honesty, there should be no reason for you to bring up the amount of student loan debt. And how about after you finish paying off all your loans? You're way better off financially than 99% of Americans. And really? Board exams? Most dental schools have over 95% first time pass rate. Hell if you're complaining about back pain, imagine being on call for 14 hour work days as a physician.

Seriously dude, I get the feeling you haven't been exposed much to other fields. Your viewpoint will change once you do.

It's such a shame to see practicing dentists not enjoying their careers. You knew what you were getting into. If you don't enjoy the process, just change paths man.

 

[jeffk805dent]

You knew what you signed up for when you applied to dental school so in all honesty, there should be no reason for you to bring up the amount of student loan debt. And how about after you finish paying off all your loans? You're way better off financially than 99% of Americans. And really? Board exams? Most dental schools have over 95% first time pass rate. Hell if you're complaining about back pain, imagine being on call for 14 hour work days as a physician.

Seriously dude, I get the feeling you haven't been exposed much to other fields. Your viewpoint will change once you do.

It's such a shame to see practicing dentists not enjoying their careers. You knew what you were getting into. If you don't enjoy the process, just change paths man.

Actually I worked as a mechanic in East Los Angeles for a couple of years, so technically my viewpoint has changed.

In case you havent noticed a lot of medical school students are shifting towards psychiatry and EM - with 40 hours/wk being a huge factor. And not all physicians are working 14 hour work days as a physician - thats more more of the surgeons and on occasions FM/IM.

 

[Blake1e]

How do you do it in a timely manner? Have you or do you know anyone that actually was able to pay it off (without parental help or military/NHSC)?

My plan is to pay the bare minimum monthly (just enough to keep the interest from capitalizing) (no PAYE or IBR) and use that money for something useful like opening up my own private practice or buying a peice of property or something. Augment my income by investing in myself and some other things, this way I'll become established that much quicker and have more earning power. And from there start making some serious headway into repaying my loan but maybe not too fast b/c you do get tax breaks from paying interest on loans.

 

[RoseEndo]

I paid off my student loans in about seven years after graduating from Endo program. I had to work as an associate for several years before opening my own practice.

 

[charlestweed]

My wife and I paid off our combined student loan of $450k in 5 years. It wasn’t from our dental incomes. With our good dental incomes, we were able to come up with a 10% down fairly quickly and bought our first house 3 months after graduation. Two years later, we upgraded to a bigger house and sold our first house for a nice profit. We then moved again to another bigger house and sold our second house also for a good profit. We used the profits from selling our houses to pay off our student loans.

We weren’t debt free after paying off our student loans. In fact, we tripled our debt (home mortgage, investment properties’ mortgages, business loans for our practices, leased cars etc). I continued to keep my full time associate job and worked Saturdays and Sundays at my own newly built practice. Working 6-7 days/week wasn’t too bad. I was in my mid 30s and healthy. While many of our colleagues struggled to find work, I felt very fortunate to have enough work to keep myself busy. It’s a good feeling to see the saving accounts grow and the debts being gradually paid off. It’s actually more depressing working fewer days/week and have to see the student loan bills in the mailbox every month.

Unlike my colleagues, I didn’t borrow 300-400k loan to set up my practice. They wanted a big office because they worried it may not be big enough for future growth. I, on the other hand, always think of an “escape plan” just in case my practice fails. Therefore, I spent as little (only $120k for my first practice) as possible. To reduce overhead, I always run an understaffed office and try to do a lot by myself. I am ok with jumping from chair to chair to treat patients. It’s a good thing to have an extremely busy day when it’s at my own office. It’s actually more depressing to have a light schedule.

Now we are both in our mid 40s (44 to be exact), my kids are getting older and my wife can work less. I continue to work 5 days/week… only from 2pm-6pm weekdays and 8am-noon on weekends. The recent increase in new ortho grads, fewer available associate jobs, more GPs doing ortho, economic recession don’t really bother us. I don’t think I can have such a worry free lifestyle today if I took things easy and worked just enough to pay back my student loan during my earlier years.

 

[Cold Front]

Yep. If you want to pay off your $400-500k in loans in one year, become an OMS. The real ballers of dentistry.

Ha! 4-6 years of residency... you can do lot more with your time and potential as an ambitious general dentist.

 

[Incis0r]

Ha! 4-6 years of residency... you can do lot more with your time and potential as an ambitious general dentist.

Yeah! Like graduate with significant debt, open three practices within a short period of time, and be ballin' like the Cold Front legend.

Seriously, what you did took guts and ambition. Very inspirational.

 

[Cold Front]

My wife and I paid off our combined student loan of $450k in 5 years. It wasn’t from our dental incomes. With our good dental incomes, we were able to come up with a 10% down fairly quickly and bought our first house 3 months after graduation. Two years later, we upgraded to a bigger house and sold our first house for a nice profit. We then moved again to another bigger house and sold our second house also for a good profit. We used the profits from selling our houses to pay off our student loans.

We weren’t debt free after paying off our student loans. In fact, we tripled our debt (home mortgage, investment properties’ mortgages, business loans for our practices, leased cars etc). I continued to keep my full time associate job and worked Saturdays and Sundays at my own newly built practice. Working 6-7 days/week wasn’t too bad. I was in my mid 30s and healthy. While many of our colleagues struggled to find work, I felt very fortunate to have enough work to keep myself busy. It’s a good feeling to see the saving accounts grow and the debts being gradually paid off. It’s actually more depressing to see the student loan bills in the mailbox.

Unlike my colleagues, I didn’t borrow 300-400k loan to set up my practice. They wanted a big office because they worried it may not be big enough for future growth. I, on the other hand, always think of an “escape plan” just in case my practice fails. Therefore, I spent as little (only $120k for my first practice) as possible. To reduce overhead, I always run an understaffed office and try to do a lot by myself. I am ok with jumping from chair to chair to treat patients. It’s a good thing to have an extremely busy day when it’s at my own office. It’s actually more depressing to have a light schedule.

Now we are both in our mid 40s (44 to be exact), my kids are getting older and my wife can work less. I continue to work 5 days/week… only from 2pm-6pm weekdays and 8am-noon on weekends. The recent increase in new ortho grads, fewer available associate jobs, more GPs doing ortho, economic recession don’t really bother us. I don’t think I can have such a worry free lifestyle today if I took things easy and worked just enough to pay back my student loan during my earlier years.

That's the way to do it. Plan, plan, plan... you save money and headaches down the road.

I use to work weekends, until my wife talked me out of it a year ago. But if I could today with longer work hours, I would. However, I realized that there is more to life than $$$ to a degree.

My wife is not a dentist, but she is an employee of my offices, she helps me manage the real-estate side of my businesses (propery management per se). You have to swim through debt these days if you want to succeed very quickly.

2010-2015 were my "get into more debt" years, from 2016-retirmenet will be "no more debt" years. I'm on course to retire with zero debt ofcourse, but if all goes to plan, I should be able to retire with $15-20M in assets and retirmenet funds.

Congrats with your success charles! You were one of the first members who inspired me on these forums before I got out to the real world!

 

[Incis0r]

General question to anyone who has a private practice:

If, by some twist of fate, you cannot pay for the practice loan any longer, are your personal assets seized?

Let's say you're over $1M in debt for a practice loan (maybe for multiple practices). For some reason, you can't pay that anymore. What happens? If you have $1M in personal assets, are those assets taken away?

 

[EasTexan]

That's the way to do it. Plan, plan, plan... you save money and headaches down the road.

I use to work weekends, until my wife talked me out of it a year ago. But if I could today with longer work hours, I would. However, I realized that there is more to life than $$$ to a degree.

My wife is not a dentist, but she is an employee of my offices, she helps me manage the real-estate side of my businesses (propery management per se). You have to swim through debt these days if you want to succeed very quickly.

2010-2015 were my "get into more debt" years, from 2016-retirmenet will be "no more debt" years. I'm on course to retire with zero debt ofcourse, but if all goes to plan, I should be able to retire with $15-20M in assets and retirmenet funds.

Congrats with your success charles! You were one of the first members who inspired me on these forums before I got out to the real world!

This is awesome. You... uh... need a partner?

😀

 

[phungy]

you're also assuming that your starting income is 180k. Which is rather bold for a general dentist right outta school. That seems more like a 3rd or 4th year salary

I don't find that a bold statement at all, most of my GP friends and I (class of 2013) were over 200k our first year and on track to 300k our third year.

 

[phungy]

not a chance you will make 180k starting...

I made 204k my first year working 4-5 days. I'm on track to make 300k my third year working 6 days and I'm a GP. Not impossible and definitely doable depending how hard you're willing to work. In fact I have a handful of classmates who were making easily over 230k their first year as GP.

 

[redmau5]

I made 204k my first year working 4-5 days. I'm on track to make 300k my third year working 6 days and I'm a GP. Not impossible and definitely doable depending how hard you're willing to work. In fact I have a handful of classmates who were making easily over 230k their first year as GP.

Just curious, in what environment are you and your classmates practicing? Urban? Rural? Corporate? Private?

 

[phungy]

Just curious, in what environment are you and your classmates practicing? Urban? Rural? Corporate? Private?

All corporate, two are in a population of 200,000, others are in a major city Sacramento & Phoenix. I'm in Fort Worth.

 

[gn4]

Met this dentist who was a million dollars in educational debt and he seemed pretty chill about it. He went to USC for dental school and went to USC for ortho residency. He was a million in debt before he started working. He said the fastest way to get out of that debt is to get your own practice. Even with all that debt, he was still able to get a practice loan from the bank. After talking to him, I felt better about my private school debt.

 

[SigmaFS]

Here's a simulation of a PAYE repayment schedule assuming a 5% annual income increase:

 

[DocVaquero]

You don't

 

[Incis0r]

@SigmaFS ,

Check your PM. It's critical.

 

[longhornpride]

It's tough. I graduated with about 420-430k in debt with dental school and undergrad combined. dental school was close to 400k. graduated in 2014 and started working the day i got my license in the mail. definitely need to hustle after school. i'm putting in 50-60 hour weeks. no vacation. work till 8 pm friday nights. work 10 hour days saturdays. i wroked 9 am to 9 pm yesterday. I don't want to be in debt forever so I'd rather bust my ass now than have to deal with this mountain of debt. Hoping to have it all paid off within 5 years. It's definitely taken a toll on me mentally and physically. I already feel burned out 18 months in. I'm making around 320k a year associating but I'm working long ass hours and sometimes seeing 20 patients day. I literally run from chair to chair some days. I hate it. Cannot wait to pay this off and work a cushy 10-3 job mon-thurs. I guess the pros are that it's good money and I basically refer nothing out except ortho and implants. Do all impacted 3rds, oral sedation, pedo, crown and bridge. Hell I'll even do the cleanings and SRP if it means extra money when it's slow. But I'm not going to lie, it takes a massive toll. I have 260k left of debt and saved about 100k for the future.

anyways, i guess my point is that if you want to pay it off, you need to live within your means and work like a dog at a practice with lots of volume. i have lots of buddies and colleagues in similar situations. you can easily make 250k as an associate but it's not going to be a job you necessarily like. it is what it is... have to make the best of a **** sandwich i guess.

 

[Legacy382]

Move to a state without income tax. Pay much more than the minimal amount of a payment. Live in a really cheap house/apartment. Live like a student. Loan repayment program through various state govts.