how "doable" is part-time as a physician?

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shevie said:
Nursing shortage perhaps, but please show me statistics stating that there is a "doctor shortage" in the US. I havent heard that as of late.

It is pretty old news actually. Maybe you should pay more attention.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/06/17/eveningnews/main1726479.shtml

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2005-03-02-doctor-shortage_x.htm

shevie said:
Again, where is your evidence?

There evidence is in common sense. If someone who is planning on just being a part time doctor doesn't get the spot than someone who is planning on being full time will get it. That is unless you believe there are people who will go to med school, do nothing, wait for the interest in their loans to pile up, and wait for the repo man.


shevie said:
I am not even gonna respond to this because it is just so immature and narrow minded. are you living in the 1800s? or do you come from some arab country where women are forced to walk around covered in black cloth w/ only their eyes peeking out?
Come on.

It has nothing to do with sexism. If a female doctor wants to work full time than that is great. I think just as negatively of men who just want to be part time doctors. But somehow you manage to raise the "SEXISM" alarm.

shevie said:
and, to the OP - YOU GO GIRL!!!

No...just no.

shevie said:
Before you jump to conclusions abt the "PA thing," have you ever even talked to a PA? Do you know that there are major differences between what is done and what is allowed to be done by an MD vs PA? I mention this because after successfully completing all my premed requiremetns and taking the MCAT, I took a break, and a major step back from my medical aspirations and considered PA school for quite a while, but ultimately concluded that although as a PA i might (and i emphasize might) have more freedom in terms of hrs and time to spend w/ my family off call, etc etc, It was never my dream, is never my dream, and I would always be looking back saying that I shouldve gone to medical school and I would always be frustrated in that I esseintlally would never become anything more than (no offense to pre-pa or pa students) a glorified senior resident.

I actually do know a PA. She does a lot of things a doctor does but of course she will never be top dog. At the same time, she can take time off of work to be with her kids and no one is really hurt by it.

You can be a great mother and a full time doctor. But it seems you want to have your cake and eat it too. I have already shown you there is a doctor shortage and instead of helping it by being a full doctor you are only being half of a doctor. Doctors who really want to be there have to pick up any of your slack they can and will have to hurt their own family lives. At the same time patients are going to have to wait longer and get less treatment because of people like you. I hope that is worth it for your "dream".
 
I have already shown you there is a doctor shortage and instead of helping it by being a full doctor you are only being half of a doctor. Doctors who really want to be there have to pick up any of your slack they can and will have to hurt their own family lives. At the same time patients are going to have to wait longer and get less treatment because of people like you. I hope that is worth it for your "dream".
You're creating a false dichotomy here. The third option is that they could open more medical schools and address the root of the problem rather than placing guilt trips on everyone saying "Either you can work 60 hours a week like everyone else, or everyone else will have to work 80 hours a week to make up for your laziness."
 
Granted, one or two people who actually know what they're talking about (medical students, residents, etc.) have responded to the OP, but why in the hell are so many of you people who are only pre-med assuming you know what's best for medicine or the OP? You know as much as I do about being a doctor; jack ****. Why? Because neither you pre-meds nor I am a doctor. It's that simple.

As far as medicine just being a job, I will say that I'm not going to discourage anyone from trying to get into medical school, but even as just an EMT it became quite obvious to me on my first call that there is no magic to this...it is indeed just a job that you do. I don't get any magical sensations running down the palms of my hands when I assess a patient, I don't suddenly turn wine to water, and I don't feel like jesus when I put oxygen on 'em. I feel like I'm doing a job, which I happen to enjoy (although non-911 is lame as hell, if you can avoid it then please do so for your own sake) most of the time, and that's all medicine will ever be to me is a job. I don't see why it needs to be a magical experience, a calling, or whatever.
 
my mom worked 25 hours a week as a pediatrician. (Caveat - she did her residency there and worked at the same hospital for like 5 years before they let her have part time, and her boss loves her.)
 
You're right, there's nothing wrong with

You can't be a good mother and a good doctor. Pick one or the other.
Really terrible generalization here. Is this just b/c ur a chauvanist? or did you have some workaholic mom and so youre harboring some resentful feelings? I hate to break it to you, but this is the 21st century, and it is possible to do both. If it ISNT, then are you saying that all women who are doctors, should just not have kids, because they wont be good mothers? I think thats pretty extreme. sorry.
 
...it is indeed just a job that you do.

There are approximately 850,000 practicing physicians in the United States right now. That's approximately 850,000 different perspectives on medicine. There is no need to generalize.
 
I am shadowing a family practice doc. She just finished residency 4 years ago a currently works mon-thurs. She has call once every 6 weeks. She has two little kids at home so it works out well for her.
 
I recommend listening to the current Residents and Medical Students about this topic. Many pre-meds, including myself, cannot really tell you how "doable" it is to be a part-time doctor because we have yet to experience the real world of medicine.
 
I tried searching this but I couldn't find a real thread about it.

How doable is it to have part time work as a doctor after residency and fellowships? Are their certain specialties that lend themselves more to part time opportunities? And when I mean part time, I am talking 30-40 hours/ week, maybe a little more.

Thanks! I would love to hear personal experiences or doctors you know in this situation.

hahahahahahahahaha

just be sure you mention this @ your interview
 
No, it's not. InshAllah is a word Mohammedans insert into their sentences to indicate their desire that Allah's will be done. So pakbabydoll has revealed that not only does she not belong in medicine, she doesn't belong in America either.

Unbelievable.

Trismegistus, I'm sure you'd have no problem wheel chairing the boxer Muhammad Ali out of the country and you were probably happy when the Chappelle Show (who is Muslim) ended as well. I wonder if it even matters to you that a 1/3rd of the American Muslim population is African-American, whose ancestors have probably been in this country longer than yours. Then again, you probably hate black people too. My advice is to keep your bigotry to yourself, b/c I think most of us on this forum are here b/c we aspire to wear white coats, not white sheets.
 
I have to say I'm actually pretty surprised by the overall response here - seems most people feel it's totally OK to want to be a part time physician. Why does that surprise me?

Because this is the same forum where the majority of people constantly spew junk about how you shouldn't be a doctor for money or prestige or lifestyle, etc - it should all be for altruism and for the love of patient care. So can someone please explain to me how a glut of part time doctors (I'm talking under 30 hrs week here) will benefit overall patient care and continuity of care? Can someone please explain to me how it's altruistic for a FP physician to work 20 hours a week when the waiting time for a patient to be seen in the clinic is 2 weeks? Sounds like putting family before patients to me. So much for medical altruism, eh? Turns out maybe being a physician is actually just a job afterall.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not actually saying I'm inherently against doctors working part time or anything. It's fine by me. I just hope you folks will agree that if wanting to have a family is a good reason to work part time as a physician, then having a family should also be a good reason for why someone would want to make great money, not want to have to rack up all these crazy volunteer hours to get into med school, and think residents shouldn't have to work more than normal hours in the name of learning and "patient care".
 
I am shadowing a family practice doc. She just finished residency 4 years ago a currently works mon-thurs. She has call once every 6 weeks. She has two little kids at home so it works out well for her.
god. she must be a terribly inept dr then. maybe she should put those kid up for adoption. I think she needs to be taking more call. every 6 wks is despicable to say the least. and WTF WHO works m-thurs??? what about all those patients who cant see her friday cuz shes home with those nasty lil kids? That is SO NOT FAIR! she took a spot in a) a class and b) a residency program where someone else who could be 90 hrs/wk couldve been!! she better quit now before she kills too many pts out of negligence b/c shes so busy thinking abt her kids all day.
 
On another point, "part time" and "full time" are meaningless terms in medicine where in some specialties, fifty hour weeks are considered "part time." A general surgeon working only fifty hours per week is the envy of his peers even if they do consider him something of a slacker.

I thnk this is a point not to be overlooked. I came from another profession and certainly saw a number of people who sought part-time options for family reasons. Very frequently the end result was that they got "allowed" to work 75% of their previous hours for 50% of the salary.
 
Doable, but more doable after a few years. Certain specialities lend itself to it more than others. My dad currently works 8-10 weeks a year as a radiologist, but he is partially retired. As much as we all enjoy our time, there is a happy point where you'll just make so much more money that 2 or 3 days a week is somewhat pointless. Your life tends to adjust to your spending.
 
Because this is the same forum where the majority of people constantly spew junk about how you shouldn't be a doctor for money or prestige or lifestyle, etc - it should all be for altruism and for the love of patient care. So can someone please explain to me how a glut of part time doctors (I'm talking under 30 hrs week here) will benefit overall patient care and continuity of care? Can someone please explain to me how it's altruistic for a FP physician to work 20 hours a week when the waiting time for a patient to be seen in the clinic is 2 weeks? Sounds like putting family before patients to me. So much for medical altruism, eh? Turns out maybe being a physician is actually just a job afterall.
Example: I have a friend who is a pediatrician (husband is a banker), and after four kids, she decided she didnt want to be working 50 h/wk, she didnt want weekend call, etc etc. So, she now works at a public clinic three days per week, making just a little over 10,000/yr! The major pay cut doesnt bother her, cuz shes NOT doing it for the $. it works for her, it works for her patients, and it works for her family. She is happy where she is, her kids love having a mother home when they get home a couple days per week, and I truly think she is helping people who REALLY need her. Now you may argue that not everyone has the "luxury," of no loans to pay off, a spouse who has a higher-paying job so that both husband and wife dont HAVE to be working full time to support a family, etc etc. but does that mean that those who do, are inherintly doing something wrong? Is she a worse doctor because of it? Is she NOT helping people who otherwise wouldnt even be seeing a dr? Think abt it. It works for some people, not for others. each case is different.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not actually saying I'm inherently against doctors working part time or anything. It's fine by me. I just hope you folks will agree that if wanting to have a family is a good reason to work part time as a physician, then having a family should also be a good reason for why someone would want to make great money, not want to have to rack up all these crazy volunteer hours to get into med school, and think residents shouldn't have to work more than normal hours in the name of learning and "patient care".
NOT necessarily. A: Two people are not ALWAYS required to "make great money." if one spouse is making enough to support a family comfortably, it may not be necessary for both to work full-time, and for that particular family, it might work to have one home at least on a part time basis.
B: with regard to racking up volunteer hrs and all the other crazy stuff we do to get in, in a majority of cases, all that is done BEFORE having kids, and in alot of cases, BEFORE getting married as well. Why should the crazy hrs a person works, all the hard work they do at TWENTY, to get into school, automatically mean that they have to be working JUST as much at THIRTY?
C: "think residents shouldnt have to work more than normal hrs?" - I think (I hope) that everyone going to med school, including all those who are toying w/ the idea or are even 100% sure that they want to work part time after finishing their training, are well aware of the 7-10 yr stretch that lies ahead of them, which WONT be easy. I want to have a family, and I want to be a good dr, MAYBE work part time at some point later on, but I still ****le when i hear other girls say stuff like "well ill just do a derm residency." like A: do you realize that those are pretty hard to come by, and if youre intending on doing this all half-assed like that, its not happening? do you understand what the "MATCH" really means? even funnier are the ones who are like B: "well ill just do a part time residency." OK then. Good luck on that. I think that most people going into medicine (with the exception of these few pretty dumb premeds who throw lines like those i mentioned, who probly wont be getting in anywhere in the US anyway...), are well aware of what a residency entails. Even if theyre willing to sign their life away for those 3-7 years, its not written anywhere, that once those 7 yrs are up, they MUST continue that grueling schedule OR ELSE theyll be a bad dr.
 
1. Your post is all screwed up.

2. How can you know how you want to practice when you are "C/O 2015"

3. At the age of 18 at least 1/2 of the 300 students in my biology class were "pre-med" (a term that I find silly except that is makes sense on SDN) and about 10 of them went to medical school. You might not even end up in medical school.


Its called positive thinking. I realize that 35% of people who apply don't get in but that does not mean I have to always be thinking that I am going to be one of them. Even if God willing I am one I am not going to think about it that way because then whats the point of everything. you must be the glass is half empty people.
 
No, it's not. InshAllah is a word Mohammedans insert into their sentences to indicate their desire that Allah's will be done. So pakbabydoll has revealed that not only does she not belong in medicine, she doesn't belong in America either.


InshAllah mean God willing like you said, it does not have anything to do with Mohamed (pbuh). oh and you should know more then half of my family is in medicine so I do belong in medicine. I have lived in FL most of my life I think that counts as belonging to a country.
 
Its called positive thinking. I realize that 35% of people who apply don't get in ...

Just to correct you, it's about 50% who apply to US med schools who don't get in. The prior poster's point though was that over 90% of folks who decide they are "premed" freshman year won't even make it to the applicant pool.
 
oh and you should know more then half of my family is in medicine so I do belong in medicine.
I have no problem with all your inch allah (sp) stuff, I dont really see why u were picked on for this...Anway though, just b/c "more than half your family is in medicine (does that mean that out of four siblings, two are doctors and two arent, both ur parents are drs, etc = >than 1/2? or that a majority of the people in ur family are "in medicine" - doing things in various allied health fields,because that means somehting else) doesnt mean that you are going to be a doctor, its pretty IRRELEVANT. Just b/c neither of my parents are physicians, doesnt mean that I have a "lesser chance," or that theres "less probability" that ill end up a physician. I dont really get ur point here.
 
InshAllah mean God willing like you said, it does not have anything to do with Mohamed (pbuh). oh and you should know more then half of my family is in medicine so I do belong in medicine. I have lived in FL most of my life I think that counts as belonging to a country.


No one is predisposed to belong to medicine. Just because your father, mother, uncle, aunt, granny, pappy, great granny, and so forth were doctors, does not mean that you "belong" in medicine. Everyone has a different calling, regardless of their ancestry. You were just fortunate enough to have direct contact with numerous doctors through your bloodline.
 
I think I belong and thats what counts.
for the record I am the first generation college student in my house. When I said my family I meant like my cusions and my parents cousions.
You guys are of course right that it hardly means that i'll get accepted. But it also does not mean that I have to be all pessimistic about getting accepted.
50%? wow I did not know. Thanks for the information.
you probably have a more chance then me of getting accepted.
 
What about peeps that want to work for part of the year? Can one potentially get, say, a 3-months-per-year gig with ease?
 
I don't think even doctors make enough money just to work 3 months a year.
 
I know four ER physicians that work three 12-hour shifts per week and make 160$ per hour. That's 250,000$ per year with over a month off.
 
So pakbabydoll has revealed that not only does she not belong in medicine, she doesn't belong in America either.

There was no call for that, and there is nothing she has said that would indicate that she has any less right to be in America than you do. Even by your reasoning, asking Allah's will to be done is simply her expressing a religious belief, and the last I checked, freedom of religious expression (and her expression is in no way harming anyone else) is a right protected by the AMERICAN constitution. If you want to cause trouble, go ahead, but what you said was rude and out of line.
 
I know four ER physicians that work three 12-hour shifts per week and make 160$ per hour. That's 250,000$ per year with over a month off.

What hospital do they work at?

Man that's awesome.

:idea:

I think I'm starting to like ER medicine!:hardy:

And its not for the money. Time is worth much more than money. I think the guys talking about how they want to work 70 hours a week are just saying that now because they are still young. once you get older and have a significant other and later on a family... you will see what all these other people are saying about wanting to be "part-time"
 
Man that's awesome.


I think I'm starting to like ER medicine!

I dunno how often this happens, but I know that some ER docs (more than any other specialty) often burn out and end up switching later on in life. Usually they have to complete another residency (which later in life would probably be pretty rough). Having said that, I have no idea what percentage actually switch.
 
I have no real problem with anecdotal evidence expect when used here, it tends to run along the line of "My mom did it, so I know you can" or "I got in with a 29, so you can too". Such sweeping generalization that are not backed with statistics or factual evidence is unreliable and should be kept to oneself.

And then, sometimes, it's just more fun to whine at people who don't agree with you, rather than use google:

https://aap.org/womenpeds/practiceoptions.pdf
http://www.aamc.org/workforce/pwrc06/erikson.pdf
http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/category/7129.html
 
I dunno how often this happens, but I know that some ER docs (more than any other specialty) often burn out and end up switching later on in life. Usually they have to complete another residency (which later in life would probably be pretty rough). Having said that, I have no idea what percentage actually switch.


I am not sure emergency medicine has the highest burn out rate of any other specialty, but I have met some burned out worthless ER docs. I guess that is why the pay is so good.

On the other hand, the four docs I mentioned before are in their forties and are very happy. Their plan is to continue working the same schedule until they turn fifty and retire to one shift a week and recruit a couple more ER docs to work with their group. I really think they have a great plan.

FYI, they work at a very small-rural critical access hospital in VA.
 
I would argue that the more people that want this option, the harder they will be to come by in 10 years. Things in short supply in medicine don't always (or even usually) result in an increase in supply.

I am two minded about this. On one hand, health care is constantly in flux and we could see a downward trend for available part time work because of the reimbursement issues.

OTOH, an increase in demand for certain job arrangements may lead to more flexible employers. Case in point, former stay at home moms who want to re-enter the work force and/or work part time. US News recently did a cover story about that.

The article mentioned that now, companies are starting to see that the key to retaining employees is to offer flexibility, especially for workers who have family needs. And so employers are doing so, and moms are trying out various work arrangements (including starting their own businesses) to allow for family and jobs.

People on these boards tend to see medicine as either a sacred calling in which one will find eternal and absolute fulfillment or a hellish slave ship run by satanic worshipers.

I'm seeing it as a highly demanding job with positions to fill. No matter how difficult insurance companies or hospitals/clinics try to make it, they still depend on doctors to actually reel in the patients. If there is a high demand for more flexible work hours (i.e part time work), manager/supervisors will make arrangements. We live in a capitalistic society where the free market still determines the employee-employer relationship.

With a 50% increase in women filling the role of doctors, I can't see the long work days of doctors can be sustained by everyone. Medicine will ALWAYS be filled with workaholics, but that number seems to be diminishing as people want to see more balanced lives, as both spouses are more prone to work, as women enter professions.

Part time residencies seems to be popping up with popular female specialties like peds. I was over at MomMD.com and it seems I'm hearing more about part time residences and part time jobs.

So to me, that seems like the work place is budging, and changing as employees demand them. Like the rest of corporate America, the medical field seems to be getting the idea that people may drift in and out of the workplace in varying degrees throughout their lives and are adjusting accordingly. That isn't to say that medicine will no longer be exhausting---all professional jobs have long hours---but I think medicine may be more flexible with their job options. I see that trend not just for medicine but for other jobs too. Even in my old work place, we had a lady who worked until 3pm, then took her work home with her---and our company was known to be pretty inflexible with the job arrangements (as an IT company), so I can see bosses becoming more accommodating, and eventually having programs where they try to make part time arrangements with their employees.
 
So to me, that seems like the work place is budging, and changing as employees demand them. Like the rest of corporate America, the medical field seems to be getting the idea that people may drift in and out of the workplace in varying degrees throughout their lives and are adjusting accordingly. That isn't to say that medicine will no longer be exhausting---all professional jobs have long hours---but I think medicine may be more flexible with their job options. I see that trend not just for medicine but for other jobs too. Even in my old work place, we had a lady who worked until 3pm, then took her work home with her---and our company was known to be pretty inflexible with the job arrangements (as an IT company), so I can see bosses becoming more accommodating, and eventually having programs where they try to make part time arrangements with their employees.

Well, the bigger difference between medicine and other fields is that the costs really don't go down with hours. You have to carry hefty medmal insurance whether you work 20 hours or 60. So getting two people to each work part time is always less lucrative than one person to work full time in medicine, while it might not be in other fields where individual liability is not an issue. Another poster in another thread suggested some places bypass this by having everyone pay their own costs -- but this creates risks of negative cashflow (as well as an incentive for an employer to throw you under the bus if things go bad, seeing as you have your own coverage).

Time will tell. But firms that can staff with full timers and have more throughput are simply going to be more profitable in a reimbursement driven system, so the incentive is always going to be to do this kind of hiring if possible, and only become accommodating to employees if they can't find enough satisfactory full timers.
 
I tried searching this but I couldn't find a real thread about it.

How doable is it to have part time work as a doctor after residency and fellowships? Are their certain specialties that lend themselves more to part time opportunities? And when I mean part time, I am talking 30-40 hours/ week, maybe a little more.

Thanks! I would love to hear personal experiences or doctors you know in this situation.

Pediatrics, family practice, and internal medicine are all part-time doable. Part time = one day off.
 
I have no problem with all your inch allah (sp) stuff, I dont really see why u were picked on for this...Anway though, just b/c "more than half your family is in medicine (does that mean that out of four siblings, two are doctors and two arent, both ur parents are drs, etc = >than 1/2? or that a majority of the people in ur family are "in medicine" - doing things in various allied health fields,because that means somehting else) doesnt mean that you are going to be a doctor, its pretty IRRELEVANT. Just b/c neither of my parents are physicians, doesnt mean that I have a "lesser chance," or that theres "less probability" that ill end up a physician. I dont really get ur point here.

Doctors children are taught to value and cultivate qualities that many times are perfectly suited for medicine. They do have more of a chance to get into medicine just because having a parent in medicine many times is like getting advice from a medical school admissions counselor or someone on the adcom. Many times interviewers realize that children of doctors also have a more realistic expectations and ideas about medicine. And of course they have amazing connections for research mentors, doctors to shadow, etc to boost their extra-curriculars. Sad but true.
 
I have to say I'm actually pretty surprised by the overall response here - seems most people feel it's totally OK to want to be a part time physician. Why does that surprise me?

Because this is the same forum where the majority of people constantly spew junk about how you shouldn't be a doctor for money or prestige or lifestyle, etc - it should all be for altruism and for the love of patient care. So can someone please explain to me how a glut of part time doctors (I'm talking under 30 hrs week here) will benefit overall patient care and continuity of care? Can someone please explain to me how it's altruistic for a FP physician to work 20 hours a week when the waiting time for a patient to be seen in the clinic is 2 weeks? Sounds like putting family before patients to me. So much for medical altruism, eh? Turns out maybe being a physician is actually just a job afterall.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not actually saying I'm inherently against doctors working part time or anything. It's fine by me. I just hope you folks will agree that if wanting to have a family is a good reason to work part time as a physician, then having a family should also be a good reason for why someone would want to make great money, not want to have to rack up all these crazy volunteer hours to get into med school, and think residents shouldn't have to work more than normal hours in the name of learning and "patient care".

You're going to have to work with and trust the system if you want to get anywhere in medicine. If you want the power to make the hoops you're going to have to jump through them first. Medicine can be a very hierarchical/molding/secret club profession, unlike others where you may get to make your own rules.
 
If you work say 20 hours/week, don't expect to get paid 50% of your full-time salary. Even though you work less, the expenses to run a practice including rent, staff salaries, malpractice fees, etc do not change. When one woman radiologist asked on auntminnie.com how much she could expect to make working part-time, the concensus was around 35-40% of her full-time salary.
 
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