How does the OOS system work?

[hannahfox]

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I am a Florida resident right now;
I go to UF, and have lived in Florida all my life;

I am moving to Michigan for graduate school and may apply to medical school after I get a PhD;

PhD program will likely require I become a Michigan resident.

Clearly I will be applying to the lot of Florida medical schools when that time rolls around, but will that make me an "OOS" and lump me into the low percentage of "OSSer" who have a chance of getting in?

 

[chicubsfan]

The degree to which being an OOSer matters obviously varies from school to school. You will have to look at the MSAR or the schools website to see what % IS and OOS they take. That being said, many schools consider strongly "ties to the state" - you obviously have huge ties to Florida and can explain that you grew up there, your parents live there, etc. Basically you are saying if they accept you, you are more likely to matriculate than someone from another state who added a Florida school on a whim. You still might have to pay OOS tuition though - this is also school dependent. Some schools will let you become a resident after 1 year - you will just have to check with the specific schools you are applying to. It might be worth trying to stay a FL resident if you are sure you want to go to med school there. Hope that helps!

 

[morning]

It would absolutely not be worth it to become a Michigan resident for medical school purposes. We only have 3 state medical schools and one of them (U of M) proudly states that they try to take at least 50% OOS every year. We will be getting 3 new medical schools, but they will be privately funded and won't have in-state preferences as far as I know.

 

[flip26]

Why not MD/PhD programs? Seems kinda crazy to do this separately; others who know more about it can chime in, but won't it take you longer to do them separately, plus won't med school cost you $$$, versus doing a combined program with no tuition plus stipends?

 

[LizzyM]

The MD/PhD is often "full ride" including a stipend. A PhD is often "full ride with a stipend" but it would be unusual for the holder of a doctorate to get a full ride through medical school.

On the other hand, an applicant must be much stronger to get into a MD/PhD program than a regular PhD program.

On to the residency situation: If you become a resident of the state of Michigan, you will be not be a Florida resident when it comes time to apply to medical school. That could hurt you.

Trying to justify having earned a PhD before medical school may hurt you even more particularly at state schools that aim to train primary care providers for the people of the state.

 

[SilentSoldier]

Does anyone know if you can't hold dual residency in states right (like having dual citizenship for countries?). Is it on a state by state basis or is it one state or the other.

 

[fizzgig]

dunno but doubt it on the dual state... uh.. citizenship... residency 🙂

OP, check the specifics of the med schools you want to apply to. i am in a phd program too, and even if i live here for years, do taxes here, have banks/bills/domicile here, have a license here, i am STILL not a resident for in state tuition purposes, because i am here in an institution of higher learning. i haven't gone back to check the med school policies but the universities around here where i need to do prereqs reference the same state code. they have me pegged as a transient who doesn't really love their state who is here for the edu and will run away when i'm finished, so they don't want people to get in state tuition that way. with that said i will contact the schools here when its time to find out and try to find out if there is any possibility to get around that.

the state i grew up in, on the other hand, has a rule that you must have lived in the state physically for 12 months consecutively before going to school for you to be considered a resident, so even maintaining my home state res does not directly help, unless i go back and tool around for a year before med.

i am homestateless so that's pretty much AWESOME to not have anywhere that you can get in state tuition unless someone cuts you a break from the rules. 😡

so anyway, dunno what it will be for MI and FL but it's worth doing the hunting because surprises suck.

 

[flip26]

The MD/PhD is often "full ride" including a stipend. A PhD is often "full ride with a stipend" but it would be unusual for the holder of a doctorate to get a full ride through medical school.

On the other hand, an applicant must be much stronger to get into a MD/PhD program than a regular PhD program.

On to the residency situation: If you become a resident of the state of Michigan, you will be not be a Florida resident when it comes time to apply to medical school. That could hurt you.

Trying to justify having earned a PhD before medical school may hurt you even more particularly at state schools that aim to train primary care providers for the people of the state.

The OP wasn't clear in this thread, but like you, I suspect that this is a tactical decision by the OP to earn a PhD to "strengthen" her med school chances; OP reports an MCAT of 21 plus a poor GPA in other posts she has written suggesting her thinking that she needs the PhD to burnish her academic cred. I agree with LizzyM that this tactic could backfire on the OP...

OP, it is none of our business, but do you really have this path figured out? What is your goal - medical research, academic medicine, or what? Why invest the time in a PhD prior to separately attending med school? You are signing up for, what, 5 to 7 years for the PhD, then 4 years med school, then residency and extras adding on another 4 to 7 or more years...holy cow - this could take you 15 to 20 years!!!

As for the state residency, I doubt if you will be forced by Michigan to take on residency status - were you told this by someone at the grad program?

 

[Morsetlis]

Take the PhD if research excites you. Do not take it in hopes of becoming a better candidate for an MD.

 

[hannahfox]

The MD/PhD is often "full ride" including a stipend. A PhD is often "full ride with a stipend" but it would be unusual for the holder of a doctorate to get a full ride through medical school.

On the other hand, an applicant must be much stronger to get into a MD/PhD program than a regular PhD program.

On to the residency situation: If you become a resident of the state of Michigan, you will be not be a Florida resident when it comes time to apply to medical school. That could hurt you.

Trying to justify having earned a PhD before medical school may hurt you even more particularly at state schools that aim to train primary care providers for the people of the state.

Thank you for the input,
I knew MD students who become MD students after earning a PhD (how few there are at least) are not supported on a stipend.

I didn't realize earning a PhD could actually hurt my chances at getting into medical school. Even if the direct results of having a PhD were null I wouldn't mind.

I am going to go for a PhD (not like I really have other options with a 21 MCAT right ).

The individual who said I feel I need to earn a PhD because my profile for medical school is not good enough to get in is dead on. Hopefully it doesn't come down to me just not being smart enough.

By the way, I was thinking... Clearly I need to prove myself if I was to ever get into medical school. Could taking Gross Anatomy at the medical school coupled with the Biomedical Sciences program I am entering help prove that? If that was even possible, and I did everything possible to earn an A, should I do it? It might look kind of bad trying to take a medical school class while working on a PhD right?

It's strange, and probably pretty pathetic. If I COULD get into a MD/PhD program, I would do it in a heart beat. If I could get into a MD program and use it to do research as well as practice, that is probably where I would end up. I love research but also want to be a doctor. I don't think I could sit at the desk for my entire life (regardless of how little of it will be left when I am done "training").
I am already a year behind my peers. I am 22 now, will be 23 soon (4 year BS turned into 5 year dual BS degrees). It would take me likely 2 years to even have a chance at getting into medical school (unless I could study enough to get my 21 up to a 33 in the month of April =(, and take the MCAT in May, then apply this summer - that would probably put me out of commission for 1 year).
Hopefully spending the extra time (that I need to prepare myself to even have a chance at competing with my peers for a seat in medical school) doing something I like will not shoot me in the foot.

 

[hannahfox]

It is kind of funny though... I get into University of Michigan (as well as a few others) PhD program in Biomedical sciences, yet I probably have NO chance in hell at getting into any US medical school.

If you guys don't mind, could you comment on and offer some advice on what I can do (if anything) about my GPA?
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=714262
My most recent reply (as of 3/30/10 06:48 PM) to that thread has an updated breakdown of my GPA that may make it easier for your input.

 

[HAART]

Any reason not to do a masters instead of PhD? And by masters I mean SMP? There are plenty with MCAT prep classes built in, which would prepare you for a retake.

 

[Xcited392]

Any reason not to do a masters instead of PhD? And by masters I mean SMP? There are plenty with MCAT prep classes built in, which would prepare you for a retake.

I wouldn't do an SMP. Her GPA is okay, but her MCAT score is the weakest point. SMPs usually cater to people with a high MCAT (~30+) with a low GPA. Her situation is kind of opposite.

To the OP, if med school is your first priority, I would prepare intensively to retake the MCAT and withdraw from the PhD.

 

[organdonor]

If it is the MCAT score holding you back, why don't you improve your MCAT score?

instead of getting a PhD? I mean a PhD isn't going to help your MCAT so you will be in the same boat after your PhD?

Check out the SMP's. I didn't know some had an MCAT component built in, but that sounds ideal.

If one of these isn't going to work, just do a regular 1 year masters or just take some classes i.e. informal post-bacc while doing at least one MCAT prep course.

If you think you have a low MCAT now, just wait until you are 7+ years out of o chem.

 

[mvenus929]

I am already a year behind my peers. I am 22 now, will be 23 soon (4 year BS turned into 5 year dual BS degrees). It would take me likely 2 years to even have a chance at getting into medical school (unless I could study enough to get my 21 up to a 33 in the month of April =(, and take the MCAT in May, then apply this summer - that would probably put me out of commission for 1 year).

I get this, I really do. I'm on the young side for medical school (22 right now, will turn 23 about 2 months after starting med school). But really, age shouldn't be a factor here, especially if you're thinking about doing a PhD, and THEN an MD program. I mean, you'll already be well into your 30's by the time you get out of residency. But the average age for students in med school is like 24... putting entering off a year while you get your stuff together isn't going to kill you, nor will it make you the oldest person in your class by a long shot.

My suggestion? Take some time off from school. Study for that MCAT, maybe take it next January after some intensive studying. See if you can get that score up. What made it so low the first time you took it? Did you not study enough, the right way, were you stressed on test day (more than the usual test butterflies)? Figure that out and fix it. Then apply to med school.

 

[Parts Unknown]

I am already a year behind my peers. I am 22 now, will be 23 soon (4 year BS turned into 5 year dual BS degrees). It would take me likely 2 years to even have a chance at getting into medical school

PhD -> MD here.

Considering that a PhD can take 7+ years, and many medical schools will not even look at your application until you have completely finished your doctorate, I would think long and hard about this game plan if you're worried about age.

Had I the nutters to solidify my med school app right out of college rather than do a PhD, I could be 36 with 4-5 years of practice under my belt. As it stands I'm 36 just finishing my fellowship.

If you want to go to medical school your game plan should be fairly simple. Finish your bachelors, keep your GPA as high as possible, and take every practice MCAT you can. Take the exam again and see how you do. If you're unhappy with your next score then just buckle down and do it again. Move into your parents' basement and work at Orange Julius if you have to. Whatever you do, do not wade into the long, frustrating, high attrition quicksand of graduate school unless you absolutely want to be a PhD as your primary career.

 

[sustentacular]

PhD program will likely require I become a Michigan resident.

Clearly I will be applying to the lot of Florida medical schools when that time rolls around, but will that make me an "OOS" and lump me into the low percentage of "OSSer" who have a chance of getting in?

Do you know for sure that the PhD program will require you to become a Michigan resident? I've not heard of this practice before.

What I do know is Michigan will not consider you as an in state applicant if you've only lived there whilst earning your PhD.. even if it takes you 6 or 7 years to complete. They have very strict residency requirements. So if you become a Michigan resident while attending school there you will loose your Florida In State status while gaining no advantage for applying to Michigan schools. My advice: keep your Florida license and file your taxes as a Florida resident.

 

[sustentacular]

Does anyone know if you can't hold dual residency in states right (like having dual citizenship for countries?). Is it on a state by state basis or is it one state or the other.

You could maybe make a case for this if you are claimed as a depended of two people who live in two different states. However, as I recall, you claim only one state as your state of residency on the AMCAS application.

 

[hannahfox]

You could maybe make a case for this if you are claimed as a depended of two people who live in two different states. However, as I recall, you claim only one state as your state of residency on the AMCAS application.

Yeah, I am looking into it. It's strange because Florida schools (like UF's graduate program) will have you become a Florida resident (if you are not already) after the first year (unless you are international) "for tuition reasons". Maybe that isn't the case for other states like Michigan.

 

[sustentacular]

Yeah, I am looking into it. It's strange because Florida schools (like UF's graduate program) will have you become a Florida resident (if you are not already) after the first year (unless you are international) "for tuition reasons". Maybe that isn't the case for other states like Michigan.

Yes, every state is different. There are some that will help students attain in state status to give them a break on tuition (like Florida and I think Ohio) and there are states that seem to go out of their way to deny people instate tuition like MI and MA.

 

[medat101]

I am a Florida resident right now;
I go to UF, and have lived in Florida all my life;

I am moving to Michigan for graduate school and plan on applying to medical school after I get a PhD;

PhD program will likely require I become a Michigan resident.

Clearly I will be applying to the lot of Florida medical schools when that time rolls around, but will that make me an "OOS" and lump me into the low percentage of "OSSer" who have a chance of getting in?

Are you sure you can become a Michigan resident while a phd student? The UM admissions office made it very clear that Michigan does not consider students as "residents" even if you buy a house, car, etc. because you came to the state for school and are not a permanent resident with history.

 

[hannahfox]

Are you sure you can become a Michigan resident while a phd student? The UM admissions office made it very clear that Michigan does not consider students as "residents" even if you buy a house, car, etc. because you came to the state for school and are not a permanent resident with history.

That's what I am hearing. TBH, I made the assumption I would end up becoming a resident of Michigan. Reason being, UF grad program made it very clear that if you are OOS, you are reclassified as a Florida resident after your first year. Reason being, the school pays for tuition. They save money by having you become a Florida resident. I figured it was the same in Michigan (even through it wasn't said explecity). I sent out the email yesterday asking. No reply yet though =/...

 

[Parts Unknown]

I am a Florida resident right now;
I go to UF, and have lived in Florida all my life;

I am moving to Michigan for graduate school and plan on applying to medical school after I get a PhD;

PhD program will likely require I become a Michigan resident.

Clearly I will be applying to the lot of Florida medical schools when that time rolls around, but will that make me an "OOS" and lump me into the low percentage of "OSSer" who have a chance of getting in?

In the event you ignore my earlier advice and start a PhD program, here is what happened to me:

I was born and grew up in State A until age 21. At that point I left and moved to State B and started a PhD. I was in State B for six years.

During that period State B never considered me a resident as I was enrolled in an institution of higher learning.

When I applied to two public medical schools back in State A, one told me that it would consider me an IS applicant if I agreed to pay six years of back-state income tax (F that). The other considered me IS without any grief. I attended the second school and got my MD.

The bottom line is that each Florida school may have its own criteria for determining your residency status when coming home from an OOS PhD. I would contact each school and see if you can clarify their respective policies. It may help avoid ugly suprises in the future.

Good luck in Michigan. You'll regret it, but good luck.

 

[CarlATHF]

You are going to be miserable in a PhD program if you aren't passionate about research or the scientific method. The stress you'll go through at an academic institution like Michigan with such a high caliber of grad students tends to weed out people who aren't passionate about research.

Bump up your MCAT and you'll be set to go with your cGPA and sGPA. If you are passionate about becoming a doc, you should consider options like DO school if you are afraid of your GPA holding you back.

 

[hannahfox]

You are going to be miserable in a PhD program if you aren't passionate about research or the scientific method. The stress you'll go through at an academic institution like Michigan with such a high caliber of grad students tends to weed out people who aren't passionate about research.

Bump up your MCAT and you'll be set to go with your cGPA and sGPA. If you are passionate about becoming a doc, you should consider options like DO school if you are afraid of your GPA holding you back.

I am not 100% certain I want to go into medicine. (Also not certain I could even get into medical school, even if I did bust my ass preparing for the MCAT). I love research (also really like what I have seen while shadowing physicians). My poor MCAT score made my decision (Medical school or Graduate school) really easy for me. If I could get into a MD/PhD program, I would do it in a heart beat. If I did go MD only (in some world I could actually get my MCAT score high enough to pull that off) I would end up considering doing research anyway.