How does wRVU works for Inpatient consultation?

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Batman's Underwear

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Let's assume that I did full initial interview (99255) , and wrote 4 follow-up notes (I could not find CPT) for one consultation, will this considered as 1 wRVU or 4wRVU or 0wRVU?. I have heard that medicare and many private insurance companies have eliminated the use of CPT for consultation all together...

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Very unlikely you would be meeting requirements for 99255 even if you were able to use it. Medicare stopped recognizing the consultation codes in 2010, and most insurers followed suit by 2020. In my area only medicaid recognizes it. Keep it simple and do 90792 for new consults (which btw is worth 4.16 wRUVs if on new system, more than 99255). You use inpatient f/u codes (99231-99233) for follow ups which are worth 0.76, 1.39 and 2 wRVUs respectively. You can use psychotherapy add on codes in the consult setting where appropriate. The hospital probably isn't collecting on most of this work. When I did consults, we only collected 18% of the time. The bougie hospital collected 40% of the time, and that is recognized as much higher than nationally.

In my view consults does not work on an RVU basis. Where I worked, I argued against having an RVU system for consults and the hospital went for it. There should be no productivity requirement for consults. Unfortunately, this may also impact your income potential compared to other areas unless they happen to pay well for covering consults. But good consult work includes lots of time that is not readily billable, and the workflow is too variable. It should either be straight salaried, or an hourly rate for consults. Can also consider a rate per new and follow up consult but would generally discourage this unless seeing consults is on top of inpt/outpt work.
 
Very unlikely you would be meeting requirements for 99255 even if you were able to use it. Medicare stopped recognizing the consultation codes in 2010, and most insurers followed suit by 2020. In my area only medicaid recognizes it. Keep it simple and do 90792 for new consults (which btw is worth 4.16 wRUVs if on new system, more than 99255). You use inpatient f/u codes (99231-99233) for follow ups which are worth 0.76, 1.39 and 2 wRVUs respectively. You can use psychotherapy add on codes in the consult setting where appropriate. The hospital probably isn't collecting on most of this work. When I did consults, we only collected 18% of the time. The bougie hospital collected 40% of the time, and that is recognized as much higher than nationally.

In my view consults does not work on an RVU basis. Where I worked, I argued against having an RVU system for consults and the hospital went for it. There should be no productivity requirement for consults. Unfortunately, this may also impact your income potential compared to other areas unless they happen to pay well for covering consults. But good consult work includes lots of time that is not readily billable, and the workflow is too variable. It should either be straight salaried, or an hourly rate for consults. Can also consider a rate per new and follow up consult but would generally discourage this unless seeing consults is on top of inpt/outpt work.
Wow thank you so much for the explanation! I have a job offer for CL, with base pay of 260k for supervising two mid levels + about 5~9 new + f/u consult + 13 weeks of call and $30 wRVU after the minimum of 2500 wRVU in East Coast suburban area. Is this a good offer?
 
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Wow thank you so much for the explanation! I have a job offer for CL, with base pay of 260k for supervising two mid levels + about 5~9 new + f/u consult + 13 weeks of call and $30 wRVU after the minimum of 2500 wRVU in East Coast suburban area. Is this a good offer?
Do you get the RVUs for the NPs work or is that only your own? Are you expected to see 5-9 new consults per day by yourself? If so, that sounds nuts. And for the NP supervision, is it direct supervision? It used to be good having mid levels under the model where they work like a resident and then you do a "shared visit" where you basically addend their note and bill for it. Unfortunately, you can't do that from 2023 unless you've spent more than 50% of the time with the pt. So if you were getting their RVUs in the past, this was not a terrible set up (and since they were more in a directly supervised role you could train them to work quite well). But now, it's not so good. In general 260k is outstanding for 2500 wRVUs, and you won't be able to make that unless you get all the RVUs from the NPs. 13 weeks of call sounds terrible. Not sure what the call entails, but still sounds terrible if no ectra pay.
 
I heard that shared note deal....got pushed back to 2024? I use the 90792 and 99232 usually. few 99233 if involved. Job sounds good on its face but I agree once you start tearing it down some you can see some issues. Much better if 9 new consults per day split between the three of you. 13 weeks of call could suck. I would try and get a good idea of how much they call.
 
13 weeks of call is built into the base rate of 260k, and any additional call is paid. During the call week, you have to be available after 5 PM by phone to provide consultation, on top of 8AM-5PM typical M-F day. On weekend, you are basically working for 48 hours with 'option?' to answer consults from home. I am not sure about RVU from NPs... I think this is the important piece of information that I need to ask
 
13 weeks of call is built into the base rate of 260k, and any additional call is paid. During the call week, you have to be available after 5 PM by phone to provide consultation, on top of 8AM-5PM typical M-F day. On weekend, you are basically working for 48 hours with 'option?' to answer consults from home. I am not sure about RVU from NPs... I think this is the important piece of information that I need to ask
That’s a lot of call and a lot of supervision for not much pay
 
13 weeks of call is built into the base rate of 260k, and any additional call is paid. During the call week, you have to be available after 5 PM by phone to provide consultation, on top of 8AM-5PM typical M-F day. On weekend, you are basically working for 48 hours with 'option?' to answer consults from home. I am not sure about RVU from NPs... I think this is the important piece of information that I need to ask
Yes, your "option" is to say that can wait until tomorrow morning or I can give you generic stat recs without seeing the patient (not good).

My wife take's Q4 call and it's quite miserable (particularly once you add children to the mix), although she is a surgeon and can't really avoid it even with a big pay cut. Her salary is also a wee bit different than yours would be.
 
13 weeks of call is built into the base rate of 260k, and any additional call is paid. During the call week, you have to be available after 5 PM by phone to provide consultation, on top of 8AM-5PM typical M-F day. On weekend, you are basically working for 48 hours with 'option?' to answer consults from home. I am not sure about RVU from NPs... I think this is the important piece of information that I need to ask
This is still terrible. For reference, my base salary at an academic hospital is $210k/yr, 6-7 call weeks per year built in (average <3 calls per week taken by a resident and checked out to me, have taken 2 calls total since July), with weekend call days paying an additional $1k per day to be present for ~6 hours supervising residents, $2k/day if it's a holiday. This does not include any resident supervision outside of call, no mid-level supervision. I also get additional quarterly RVU bonuses and bi-annual department bonuses. I typically see 3-5 patients per day (this is new and f/ups).

I have some additional job duties (teaching, research) that I do voluntarily for extra RVUs or side pay, but these are separate from the consult portion of my position.


In general 260k is outstanding for 2500 wRVUs, and you won't be able to make that unless you get all the RVUs from the NPs.
Unless I'm misunderstanding, this is just not true. Bill 90792 3x per day for 45 weeks and that's 2808 wRVUs per year. Batman should easily hit 2500 wRVUs even without NP involvement.
 
What about this VA job? Strictly CL-work + appointment with local academic hospital w/ potential for tenure track + usual VA perks + >50k sign-on bonus for 2 years
 
Yes, VA is the way to go if you want to do consult work. Forget all of this billing stuff...
 
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