How easy was admission 10, 20, 40 years ago?

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TheBiologist

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Could a 3.4 and 80th percentile MCAT get you into a highly ranked medical school in the 1970s/80s? what about 2000?

And what are we going to do in the next 20-30 years when there is not enough spots and you need a 3.9 and 98th% MCAT to get in?

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Could a 3.4 and 80th percentile MCAT get you into a highly ranked medical school in the 1970s/80s? what about 2000?

And what are we going to do in the next 20-30 years when there is not enough spots and you need a 3.9 and 98th% MCAT to get in?
A 3.4/509 can get into a highly ranked medical school in 2017, so...
 
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The MCAT was much, much less of a filter for high ranking schools a decade ago. GPAs were a little lower too. In 2006, averages were:

MPWsVxB.png


And the MCAT percentiles were the same in 2006 as they were in 2015, e.g. a 32 was only ~85th percentile, yet was plenty to get into places like Cornell, Columbia or Penn.

There were still thousands of applicants competing for a couple hundred admission offers though, so you would still need to impress, just more in other areas and less in academics.
 
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I was more curious on how app process was like back then, without AMCAS. Not able to check your app status via secondary portal, no interfolio to send your LOR. I would guess the application neuroticism was much higher back then.
 
I was more curious on how app process was like back then, without AMCAS. Not able to check your app status via secondary portal, no interfolio to send your LOR. I would guess the application neuroticism was much higher back then.
higher than it is now lol wow
 
I was more curious on how app process was like back then, without AMCAS. Not able to check your app status via secondary portal, no interfolio to send your LOR. I would guess the application neuroticism was much higher back then.
I still have an intermittent twitch from it.
 
I got into medical school in 1982.

Back then there were half as many schools as now, and much more selective towards elite undergraduate institutions. Also, there's no way around it, back then there was no idea of evidenced base medicine as now, students then were expected to be excellent thinkers and self motivators. Ahem...

Student loans in 1982, what student loans? Guarenteed loans now allow anyone to get into medical school, from any ethnic group or economic situation. Now, you just need 80% percentile UG grades and a 80% percentile MCAT to get above the baseline....
 
I know a doctor who is about 60 now... she said it was really easy back then. Literally just take the MCAT and apply. No need to shadow, volunteer, none of that. Same for residency. Apparently you just had to pass Step, and the score didn't even matter.
 
Anecdote:

When I was discussing my application with a family friend/oncologist I shadowed, I spoke about my leadership, experiences abroad, and etc. He looked at me funny. "Why are you doing all this extra stuff? All you need is good grades and a high MCAT, don't waste your time with volunteering and all that."

...Me thinks that admissions has changed quite a bit since the good old days.
 
Talked to somebody who went to Harvard maybe 30 years ago? He was surprised to learn that people actually study for the MCAT today
I said my score was about a 34 and a doc in like his mid 40s was saying I'd get into Harvard. I was like nahhh I think they're looking for guys a little better than me. Lol
 
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I was more curious on how app process was like back then, without AMCAS. Not able to check your app status via secondary portal, no interfolio to send your LOR. I would guess the application neuroticism was much higher back then.

Interfolio existed back then, in fact there are SDN threads from the early 2000's asking about it. As did AMCAS. If you want to go back to the days before the interwebz though, I've heard it was basically like applying to undergrad before the common app. Each school had their own paper application you had to fill out and literally write out everything like job/volunteer experiences and their descriptions, grades, personal essays, secondaries, etc. I'm actually old enough where all the UG applications I sent out were paper, and yes, it was painful having to literally write in course names and grades as well as all my extracurriculars for each individual school. I literally spent over a month filling out applications to ~10 schools.

I know a doctor who is about 60 now... she said it was really easy back then. Literally just take the MCAT and apply. No need to shadow, volunteer, none of that. Same for residency. Apparently you just had to pass Step, and the score didn't even matter.

The people I've talked to who are over 50 (ie, went to med school in the 80's) have all said it was still difficult, but that MCAT didn't matter. Basically you had to have a strong GPA from a solid UG to get in, GPA (and research if you had it) was everything and shadowing/volunteering was just fluff. Med school was the big bottleneck though, and there was no such thing as a "competitive field" in terms of residency. Like you said, as long as you passed boards you could literally get into (almost) any field you wanted, and I know more than a few orthos that said they'd have exactly 0% chance of being ortho surgeons if they had to go through the match today.
 
Interfolio existed back then, in fact there are SDN threads from the early 2000's asking about it. As did AMCAS. If you want to go back to the days before the interwebz though, I've heard it was basically like applying to undergrad before the common app. Each school had their own paper application you had to fill out and literally write out everything like job/volunteer experiences and their descriptions, grades, personal essays, secondaries, etc. I'm actually old enough where all the UG applications I sent out were paper, and yes, it was painful having to literally write in course names and grades as well as all my extracurriculars for each individual school. I literally spent over a month filling out applications to ~10 schools.



The people I've talked to who are over 50 (ie, went to med school in the 80's) have all said it was still difficult, but that MCAT didn't matter. Basically you had to have a strong GPA from a solid UG to get in, GPA (and research if you had it) was everything and shadowing/volunteering was just fluff. Med school was the big bottleneck though, and there was no such thing as a "competitive field" in terms of residency. Like you said, as long as you passed boards you could literally get into (almost) any field you wanted, and I know more than a few orthos that said they'd have exactly 0% chance of being ortho surgeons if they had to go through the match today.
That's interesting.... if you went to a state school and had a good GPA, would you be SOL?
 
That's interesting.... if you went to a state school and had a good GPA, would you be SOL?

Depends on the state school, big name ones like Michigan or UCLA would probably be fine. Schools with less prestige would probably have hurt you a lot more than today though. You'd have to ask some older docs as I'm not sure how big of a role that actually played, the ones I talked to made it seem like it was significant though.
 
I think a lot changed from beginning of the 80s to end of the 80s. My PI attended UCLA, graduating around 80-81, and told me that he didn't study for the MCAT. He got a very high GPA though, and got into UCSF.

My father who also attended UCLA graduated around 89 and told me that everyone was gunning for the MCAT at that point. He had a decent GPA at the time (since there wasn't really grade inflation), and got into many excellent medical schools as well. Furthermore, by the end of the 80s, volunteering, leadership, research etc. all started becoming important, or so according to my father.

Everything was done by mail by then, so sometimes you had to verify multiple times that you had an interview. My father went with his friend to UC Davis (who was the one who got the interview), and for some reason the admissions officer was like: "Oh, hi, you have an interview too!" to my father. So my dad had to attend the interview basically dressed in casual clothing.
 
OK, speaking of the good old days...

I started undergrad in 1998. Back then, the course registration system at BYU was telephone-based. You'd call over and over and over for hours and hear nothing but busy tones, but finally you'd get through. You'd use a catalog as thick as the MSAR to look up and punch in the codes for the classes you wanted: course number + #, then section number + #. There was no way of knowing how many seats were left in any section until you tried to add it, so you had to have like three possible weekly schedules drawn out - otherwise, you might wind up with something like Tuesday classes at 8 am, noon, and 7 pm. After you were done, you had the option to log out without hanging up. So I still remember registration night, when all the guys in my dorm pulled our phones out into the hallway and all of us just punched redial over and over until someone got through. Then something like forty of us registered on the same phone without hanging up.

Anyone else have stories to share about the time before technology?
 
OK, speaking of the good old days...

I started undergrad in 1998. Back then, the course registration system at BYU was telephone-based. You'd call over and over and over for hours and hear nothing but busy tones, but finally you'd get through. You'd use a catalog as thick as the MSAR to look up and punch in the codes for the classes you wanted: course number + #, then section number + #. There was no way of knowing how many seats were left in any section until you tried to add it, so you had to have like three possible weekly schedules drawn out - otherwise, you might wind up with something like Tuesday classes at 8 am, noon, and 7 pm. After you were done, you had the option to log out without hanging up. So I still remember registration night, when all the guys in my dorm pulled our phones out into the hallway and all of us just punched redial over and over until someone got through. Then something like forty of us registered on the same phone without hanging up.

Anyone else have stories to share about the time before technology?

When I was in college in the 1970s, the academic departments set up tables in the gym and you stood in line at each table and told the department representative the course and section you wished to register for. If the sign up sheet wasn't full, your name went on the list. That was course registration and I'd bet that the process had not changed since the school was founded.
 
And what are we going to do in the next 20-30 years when there is not enough spots and you need a 3.9 and 98th% MCAT to get in?

This will never happen honestly. We like to freak out about it but it won’t ever happen because there simply aren’t enough applicants with this profile, despite what we see here in SDN.
 
admissions may have not changed all that much (except for the obvious big picture changes like the MCAT being less important and also a very different exam several decades ago), debt and tuition certainly have.

https://hospitalmedicine.ucsf.edu/downloads/history_of_med_student_debt_greysen.pdf

In the early 80s Penn Med had one of the highest tuition pricetags of any medical school at a whopping 8-10k in 1980 dollars (~30k in 2017 dollars). The average private medical school cost around 5k (~12-15k 2017 $$). Seems almost cute today. Even more impressive than the ballooning of tuition is the ballooning in general cost of living. Room and Board at a private school like Penn (using Penn cuz their historical data is 1 google search away) cost 1.5-3k for a total COA of around ~35-40k in 2017 dollars. Today that figure is closer to 90k for a school like Penn.
 
The MCAT was much, much less of a filter for high ranking schools a decade ago. GPAs were a little lower too. In 2006, averages were:

MPWsVxB.png


And the MCAT percentiles were the same in 2006 as they were in 2015, e.g. a 32 was only ~85th percentile, yet was plenty to get into places like Cornell, Columbia or Penn.

There were still thousands of applicants competing for a couple hundred admission offers though, so you would still need to impress, just more in other areas and less in academics.

Be right back, time traveling to 2006 so I can apply to Harvard.
 
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Be right back, time traveling to 2006 so I can apply to Harvard.

Pretty sure if you’ve invented time travel you could get into present day Harvard.

I’d be more worried about the robots coming back in time to kill you.
 
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