How hard is Organic Chem??????

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gerrybrown82

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I got a B in Chem 1 and a B in Chem 2...........compared to those classes......how hard is Organic Chemistry 1......thanks
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It depends on the person. Some love ochem, some hate it. Either way it's a much more challenging course than gen chem. I had to work my butt off and received a B first semester and an A second semester.

I felt like making a poster that said "I got an A in ochem II!" and hanging it on my wall.
 
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It depends on the school and professor. We had 5 As in my organic classes out of 70-75 students. My friend took them at a neighboring school, covered only 2/3 the material we did, never had to memorize anything, and had all take-home tests. Every student in his class made an A. That's why weighing students by their GPAs is ******ed.

But yeah, organic was quite a bit more difficult at my school than inorganic. It makes people cry.
 
Hmm... I don't agree with the bolded. I've never seen people cry in an organic chemistry class. Though, I will agree walking out of a class straight after an organic chemistry exam is one of those "things you must do" in your lifetime events. More so than any class I have ever taken, you can pretty quickly tell who did well and who did badly on the exam just by facial expression (though the look is more stunned than crying on those that did badly).

Organic chemistry is very dependent on the person (and to some extent topic covered). It's VERY easy once you get the basics down. I absolutely love mechanisms. I would do them for fun. It all made sense. Once you have the basics down you understand what happens next and it's good (basically, in the end of the the day neuclophie is going to attack the electrophile and if it can attack from the front and also do a backside attack there will be some stereochemistry to consider). I was not a big fan of synthesis problems (never really like doing things backward). I'd still take organic over inorganic chemistry any day of the week.

I did miss the math though. I really missed the math. There is really not much beyond very basics add/subtract that shows up in organic chemistry. If math is your strong suit then you may miss it a lot.

My personal opinion is that a lot of people struggle with o-chem because they are forced to take it. I've known a few people that were horrid in science take o-chem (because their parents wanted them to be doctors) and they faired poorly. I also know a few people that struggled because they didn't keep up with the work. If you fall behind, you are pretty much done (things build on each other and quickly). If you work hard, and at least have a basic science background, and really want to do well, you will.



JustAGuy said:
But yeah, organic was quite a bit more difficult at my school than inorganic. It makes people cry.
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My fave pre req classes were Chem and O-Chem. Made As or A+ in all.

My least favorite: Physics, especially the labs. And I hated the way we were graded in the O-Chem labs...

O-Chem is not bad if you stay on top of it. Can't get behind or you are dead.
 
In two semesters of ochem, in a small class of only about 35 people each semester, I saw 6-7 people cry. 😱

Also, I agree that it very much depends on the professor/school. I took it at a community college turned state college, and you'd THINK it would be easier. It wasn't.

My professor was great, but he didn't have a set grading scale, or even grade on a bell curve. What he did was take the first large gap in points and made that the A/B cut off, next was B/C, etc.

This might sound great, but when you have a chemical engineer in your class that is taking it to refresh a pre-med prereq, and in 2 semesters he doesn't miss a question on an exam...it sucks hardcore 😉
 
I have definately seen a few people walk out of the room after an exam crying. It is a very difficult course. However, once you understand the basics you will be fine. It requires hours upon hours of studying and, if you are an individual that doesn't have good study skills, you will either learn some study skills quick or fail the course. I made an A in both O-chem I and II. It was a struggle and I worked very hard for it but it is definately attainable. By the end of the course half of us kinda enjoyed it and the other half hated it. I believe the seperation was between ppl who didnt study hard enough and ppl who knew what they had to do to make the grade. Don't sweat it. If you want to go into medicine there is nothing you can do to dodge it so get yourself a good srudy group and prepare yourself for hours of studying and you will be fine! Good Luck to you!
 
I think there's quite a bit of hyperbole that goes along with ochem. There's no doubt that it's difficult and challenging. Unless you're a five year old girl, though, it's not going to make you cry or even make you depressed. I'm guessing maybe 10-15% of our class got As, so it was by no means a softball class for me, and I still think it wasn't the most difficult thing in the world. You will have to study; depending on the courses you've taken, it might be the most you've ever studied. That said, you shouldn't be studying ochem 24/7 - even if you have to memorize every mechanism.

Take everything you read with a grain of salt.
 
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I liked ochem much better than genchem even though I did do worse in it. It does depend a lot on the prof though. I had two different profs and one really explained it so much better. But really the hardest thing about it is memorizing all the different reactions and mechanisms.
 
I personally thought O Chem was easier than general chem because there is no calculations in organic.

Granted a lot of organic feels absurdly pointless, which it probably is.
 
I wouldn't say that the material in Ochem is harder, but the classes/exams are definitely much more intense. I had trouble wrapping my head around some of the stuff in genchem but really liked Ochem. That said, some schools (like mine) really made Ochem a ridiculous beast, kind of like "boot camp for premeds." I did better in Ochem overall than genchem, but had some crazy exam experiences (Class average for the 1st semester final was a thirty-something out of 100).
 
It's a lot different and generally harder for most people than gen chem.

No mathematical calculations and formulas. Instead, you're actually visualizing and writing down the exact reactions you are studying. You're learning about how and why they happen due to the properties of whatever you're reactants you're using.

Being scared of orgo isn't a bad thing. I was scared ****less first semester this year and that fear of failure made me work my ass off and I made an A-

If you're anything like me and you don't understand the first couple of lectures, try to find a tutor at your school to explain everything to you. Otherwise, go to office hours
 
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It's definitely the negative stigma that comes with organic chemistry that makes it so intimidating. Like everyone has said, stay on top of the material, seek help if necessary, and put in the necessary work and you'll be fine. I found notecards as super helpful for remembering the reagants and reactions. Don't be afraid to ask questions as well if something isn't clicking! I tutor organic chemistry and I've noticed the large issue students are having is the gap between what the professor teaches and what the student actually comprehends.

You'll do great! Good luck!!
 
the likelihood of me answering a question is inversely related to the # of question marks in the title.
 
I don't recall seeing a lot of numbers in Ochem, except in IR and NMR, and maybe in the reaction coordinates, but definitely no numeric computations like in gen-chem. So that would have to be the biggest difference for me. It really depends on the person though. Some people just like seeing wedged and dashed molecules rather than the stoichiometry you do in chem.
 
easiest class ever. seriously. not hard whatsoever.
 
Gen chem and Ochem are just very different. A lot of people prefer Ochem because there's no math (aside from some really basic stuff), but a lot of people have a problem with the spatial aspect (difficult to mentally picture 3D molecules), etc. So it really is dependent on the individual.

I personally hated Ochem I, but I absolutely loved Ochem II.

That being said, I was a chem major, so for me, orgo as a whole was comparatively easier than all of my other upper-level chemistry classes.
 
If youre scared to take Ochem, take Pchem first. Then ochem will feel like kindergarten.
 
christina30 said:
Gen chem and Ochem are just very different. A lot of people prefer Ochem because there's no math (aside from some really basic stuff), but a lot of people have a problem with the spatial aspect (difficult to mentally picture 3D molecules), etc. So it really is dependent on the individual.

I personally hated Ochem I, but I absolutely loved Ochem II.

That being said, I was a chem major, so for me, orgo as a whole was comparatively easier than all of my other upper-level chemistry classes.
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Interesting. OChem II atleast at my school simply builds on the basics of what OChem I taught and then you have to memorize and understand 500 reactions haha

Just wondering how you didn't like learning the easier basic stuff
 
I loved Gen Chem but hated OChem with a passion. The central concepts of OChem are difficult to understand for me. It's easier than Gen Chem for some, though, especially for my friends who disliked the math-y aspects of Gen Chem. 🙂
 
I loved organic chem at my school - my favorite of all the pre-req courses.

Organic chem is HIGHLY conceptual, as others have said. This could be a good or a bad thing... It's bad because if you're someone who's not good with organic chem type stuff - memorizing/studying until you're blue in the face probably won't get you an A (this is probably what's responsible for the infamous students-crying-after-an-orgo-exam). On the flip side, if Lewis acid/base, relative acid/base nucleophile strength etc. all come naturally to you - you will love the course and it will NOT be the reputed super-difficult course you hear about.

Think back to introductory chem - you said you got Bs overall, but how did you do on the ochem sections of intro chem? If you did well on the ochem sections, you should be okay. If not... well... I hate to say this, but good luck lol.

In Organic chem, you have to be able to figure things out - not just know how certain reactions work. I remember some of my classmates HATED synthesis questions: (i.e. you start with this molecule, propose a full reaction with all mechanisms/intermediates drawn in to get to this product). These questions can get very very complex/stressful when you're given a starting molecule, an ending molecule that looks NOTHING like the starting one, and 2 pages of blank space next to a notation of (20 marks). That said, I enjoy that kind of problem =). I have seen people leave those questions blank though so... =/

Long story short Ochem is a you get it or you don't type course.
 
eatinglightning said:
Interesting. OChem II atleast at my school simply builds on the basics of what OChem I taught and then you have to memorize and understand 500 reactions haha

Just wondering how you didn't like learning the easier basic stuff
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I was one of those people who had a big issue with enantiomers/diastereomers and topics like it - I guess I'm spatially deficient. I just couldn't, for the life of me, picture the 3D structure of the molecules in my head. I couldn't even manage with molecular models! Ochem I for me was way more about memorization.

Ochem II, however, was less about memorization, imho. There was more of an emphasis on mechanisms, and that's when it finally all clicked for me. Once I figured out how a mechanism worked for one particular reaction, I was able to do it with all the others. I no longer had to simply "memorize" the reactions - I understood the mechanisms so it was all reasoning. The problems consisted mainly of mechanisms and complex syntheses - and they became a total breeze for me! I actually enjoyed working out a solution.

Just noticed what the person above said - glad I'm not the only one who felt this way about Orgo II! Haha
 
just to reiterate what everyone has been saying; it's definately not as hard people make it to be, learn the basics cold and you'll be fine as it's basically the same stuff over and over again with different reagents. And also do your best to understand what is really going on, and do tons of practice problems and you'll be fine
 
Not too bad.
It's to gen chem as geometry is to algebra... different... and more conceptual/visual/spatial/"artsy."
If you know gen chem cold, it'll make ochem easier.
 
For me, the hardest part was memorizing reagents and what they do.

You'll notice that after a while mechanisms really start to make sense. Then you find yourself enjoying them and stop to think, "gee, I'm a nerd."
 
If you're studying by memorization, then you have missed the concepts/big picture. It feels like simple math after you've mastered the patterns.
 
VOP said:
If you're studying by memorization, then you have missed the concepts/big picture. It feels like simple math after you've mastered the patterns.
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no matter how u master a subject, ur still at the mercy of ur professor if they are making the exam, by picking out or/and designing the questions. just a thought🙂.
 
VOP said:
If you're studying by memorization, then you have missed the concepts/big picture. It feels like simple math after you've mastered the patterns.
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Only problem is most of organic chemistry concepts are very "hand-wavy" and constantly have to get changed to account for some new observation. So if you are actually presented with completely "novel" situation it would be pretty unlikely that the "concepts" would actually work the way they are supposed to.

Granted professors are forced to keep even their "application" questions within the scope of the concepts as they chose to teach them, so your going to be fine in the class.
 
Ochem 1- easy, and you cna do well just cramming for a test a couple days in advance.


Ochem 2- Oh sorry...haven't gone to a few lectures? Haven't been studying a bit every day? YOU GONNA FAIL.

seriously, though, Ochem 2 was just a lot of work, at least for me. As long as you stay on top of it, you will do fine, though. Just don't fall behind in Ochem 2.
 
It really does depend on the person. I personally hated Organic Chemistry (I even joined the "Organic Chemistry Haters United" group on Facebook). Like many others, I went into the college thinking that it would be easy because I went to a school for "intellectually gifted kids" in high school. I had taken every other pre req for Medical School, and aced them all. By the time Organic Chemistry I ended, I was a mess. I was doing horribly, and was hanging on to my sanity by a thread. I cried my way through the final (literally), and ended up witha C-. In Organic Chemistry II, I completely BOMBED the first exam, then decided to pull out all the stops on the second exam. I set out a specific study schedule 11 days before the exam, which included going to the library everyday until the exam (including weekends), completing all the practice problems in each chapter, making highlights, then topping it off with a re-read and more highlighting each night before I went to bed. I even got extra help from the professor. For those 11 days, I atre, breathed, and slept o chem. When I finally got the exam back, it had a big, fat D- on it. I dropped the class an hour later, and it was pretty shaming. For someone who has always excelled at academics and pulled straight A's until this class, it was pretty dehumanizing. Now, I have to put off medical school for another year so that I can retake the class. Good luck! You'll need it...
 
Kiki2011 said:
It really does depend on the person. I personally hated Organic Chemistry (I even joined the "Organic Chemistry Haters United" group on Facebook). Like many others, I went into the college thinking that it would be easy because I went to a school for "intellectually gifted kids" in high school. I had taken every other pre req for Medical School, and aced them all. By the time Organic Chemistry I ended, I was a mess. I was doing horribly, and was hanging on to my sanity by a thread. I cried my way through the final (literally), and ended up witha C-. In Organic Chemistry II, I completely BOMBED the first exam, then decided to pull out all the stops on the second exam. I set out a specific study schedule 11 days before the exam, which included going to the library everyday until the exam (including weekends), completing all the practice problems in each chapter, making highlights, then topping it off with a re-read and more highlighting each night before I went to bed. I even got extra help from the professor. For those 11 days, I atre, breathed, and slept o chem. When I finally got the exam back, it had a big, fat D- on it. I dropped the class an hour later, and it was pretty shaming. For someone who has always excelled at academics and pulled straight A's until this class, it was pretty dehumanizing. Now, I have to put off medical school for another year so that I can retake the class. Good luck! You'll need it...
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Umm, I am almost positive you need to retake Organic I, too. At least look into it, but a C- in a pre req is not acceptable at many if not most if not all med schools...
 
Like a lot of people said, depends on the teacher as well as your study habits.

Coming from a pretty normal guy (too many geniuses on here to get a true understanding of it), it's not TOO bad if you're willing to put in the time.

For me, I was overly cocky about it and wound up doing terrible (C) and dropped it. I went into the class with a few other hard classes thinking Ochem would be a breeze for such a smart guy like myself (HAH!). I stopped going to lectures, didn't study much and wound up doing mid 70s in the class (which I suppose was still better than most of our class, but not acceptable imo).

Don't memorize, understand what's going on. I know its sad over and over on here, but there's a reason why. I tried memorizing SN1/SN2 reactions (you'll find out about those later), which aren't actually difficult to understand, but trying to memorize wound up raping me on the test.

Anyways, good luck! I'll be joining you in that class come this spring. Lucky us
 
vin5cent0 said:
Like a lot of people said, depends on the teacher as well as your study habits.

Coming from a pretty normal guy (too many geniuses on here to get a true understanding of it), it's not TOO bad if you're willing to put in the time.

For me, I was overly cocky about it and wound up doing terrible (C) and dropped it. I went into the class with a few other hard classes thinking Ochem would be a breeze for such a smart guy like myself (HAH!). I stopped going to lectures, didn't study much and wound up doing mid 70s in the class (which I suppose was still better than most of our class, but not acceptable imo).

Don't memorize, understand what's going on. I know its sad over and over on here, but there's a reason why. I tried memorizing SN1/SN2 reactions (you'll find out about those later), which aren't actually difficult to understand, but trying to memorize wound up raping me on the test.

Anyways, good luck! I'll be joining you in that class come this spring. Lucky us
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Ditto!!!

When i was reading this post, i was like,"did i write this lol?" i went into it in the same arrogent/cocky way, and got my ass handed to me before i dropped--i'm going to take it fall 2010, but my only advice is: understand the labs! i found them really fun, i hope you do to 🙂
 
I thought it would be hard. It was challenging, but I did well.
 
surftheiop said:
I personally thought O Chem was easier than general chem because there is no calculations in organic.

Granted a lot of organic feels absurdly pointless, which it probably is.
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Oh don't worry, you're totally right in that orgo is by FAR the least useful premed course if you're going into clinical medicine. 😉 I now have 3 years of med school behind me and have used knowledge from organic chemistry exactly once. Once, and that was in an aside conversation with an attending who put a drawing of the orgo structure of a molecule to "make the slide pretty" and we all (including the attending) scratched our heads and tried to remember the names of the different chemical groups. Perhaps there have been a few times where some basic, basic orgo knowledge smoothed the way (like, knowing that a hydroxyl group is something that exists), but really, that's it. If you're going into research it's a different story, of course.

The most useful thing about orgo, realistically, is the study habits you have to have in order to get through it. To do well you need to not fall behind, be able to retain a lot of information, and need to know how/why something is rather than just memorizing facts....all skills that ARE useful in med school.

On the flip side, physics? Ridiculous in how often it comes up....of course, 80% of the relevant physics is fluid dynamics, the one topic my undergrad course didn't quite get to...
 
eablackwell said:
It depends on the person. Some love ochem, some hate it. Either way it's a much more challenging course than gen chem. I had to work my butt off and received a B first semester and an A second semester.

I felt like making a poster that said "I got an A in ochem II!" and hanging it on my wall.
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My PChem professor handed out bumper stickers on the last day of class reading "Honk if you passed P-Chem".

I dreaded organic chem but found that I excelled at it (ended up doing three years of synthetic org research and tutor the course at my school). If you learn in a visual way it makes the class much easier.
It all does boil down to time invested though. Some people don't understand any of what I teach, mainly because they have not read and done their homework.
Speaking of which, don't BS your homework. Do it.
I will say that it is more effective to learn what is happening and why, not memorize reactions. Same for concepts: understand their basis not just the rule. I think this contributes to why ochem exams are so hard- profs test the understanding concepts and patterns.
 
ryno said:
My PChem professor handed out bumper stickers on the last day of class reading "Honk if you passed P-Chem".

I dreaded organic chem but found that I excelled at it (ended up doing three years of synthetic org research and tutor the course at my school). If you learn in a visual way it makes the class much easier.
It all does boil down to time invested though. Some people don't understand any of what I teach, mainly because they have not read and done their homework.
Speaking of which, don't BS your homework. Do it.
I will say that it is more effective to learn what is happening and why, not memorize reactions. Same for concepts: understand their basis not just the rule. I think this contributes to why ochem exams are so hard- profs test the understanding concepts and patterns.
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That is awesome, I need to find one of those
 
flip26 said:
Umm, I am almost positive you need to retake Organic I, too. At least look into it, but a C- in a pre req is not acceptable at many if not most if not all med schools...
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You're right. I'm not an idiot lol. I would NEVER apply to medical school with a C- in O chem, so I'm retaking both this summer 🙂
 
In the opinion of those who took general chem and organic chem, do you feel that one should have strong general chem skills to be successful at organic chem? asking because i took general chem (my weakest science i would say) a few semesters ago, i didnt do too bad but i am definitely weak in gen chem.

I will be taking ochem 1 next semester, any tips on studying strategies that worked? or if i should review my gen chem to not be at a disadvantage?
 
foofish said:
Oh don't worry, you're totally right in that orgo is by FAR the least useful premed course if you're going into clinical medicine. 😉 I now have 3 years of med school behind me and have used knowledge from organic chemistry exactly once. Once, and that was in an aside conversation with an attending who put a drawing of the orgo structure of a molecule to "make the slide pretty" and we all (including the attending) scratched our heads and tried to remember the names of the different chemical groups. Perhaps there have been a few times where some basic, basic orgo knowledge smoothed the way (like, knowing that a hydroxyl group is something that exists), but really, that's it. If you're going into research it's a different story, of course.

The most useful thing about orgo, realistically, is the study habits you have to have in order to get through it. To do well you need to not fall behind, be able to retain a lot of information, and need to know how/why something is rather than just memorizing facts....all skills that ARE useful in med school.

On the flip side, physics? Ridiculous in how often it comes up....of course, 80% of the relevant physics is fluid dynamics, the one topic my undergrad course didn't quite get to...
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Wouldn't orgo come into play if you were prescribing drugs with different chemical groups and analogs pH etc? Or is that more pharmacy?
 
EyEnStein 07 said:
In the opinion of those who took general chem and organic chem, do you feel that one should have strong general chem skills to be successful at organic chem? asking because i took general chem (my weakest science i would say) a few semesters ago, i didnt do too bad but i am definitely weak in gen chem.

I will be taking ochem 1 next semester, any tips on studying strategies that worked? or if i should review my gen chem to not be at a disadvantage?
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no a strong background in gen chem is not needed...the only thing covered in gen chem would be the orbital hybridizations and lewis structures but that's usually covered in the first chapter of orgo.

As far as tips go, try to stay on track with the professor. Meaning either finish reading and understanding the corresponding chapter before or after the professor does and also do every problem, especially in the beginning because once you've mastered the basics (Sn1/Sn2, E1/E2) everything just builds on from there and the rest will be as easy remembering which reagent does what. Sounds like a lot and it may be a little tough to do all this at first, especially if you're taking another science class like physics or w/e, but you'll find that it will become easier once you get a good schedule going. Hope that helps 🙂
 
i had a B in chem 1 and 2 and I got an A in orgo1 and 2. Its a completely different ball game, at least the way my prof taught it
 
Only class that teaches you the beauty of the nucleophilic backside attack. So applicable to real life situations. Difficult to master, but worth every second of practice. Hahaha, but like previously stated, dependent on you and your study habits.
 
I think it really depends on who you ask. I personally thought O-Chem was the easiest science class that I took in college, and I became a O-Chem TA later on. I took gen Chem, O-Chem and inorganic Chem, etc., and got all A's, so chemistry in general came easy for me. I did see, however, some classmates who struggled quite a bit in spite of all the hard work they put in. Some people just don't seem to get it.

If you are good at pattern recognition, O-Chem shouldn't be that hard. It's very conceptual, so that made it easier than inorganic, or at least it was for me.

I was a bit of an unusual pre-med in that I thought biology was by far the hardest... but then that maybe because I didn't spend as much time studying bio as I did chem, physics or engineering courses...
 
Kiki2011 said:
You're right. I'm not an idiot lol. I would NEVER apply to medical school with a C- in O chem, so I'm retaking both this summer 🙂
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Your post wasn't clear - you only mentioned retaking the 2nd class.

Seems a little strange to me that after making the C- in Org I that you proceeded to take Org II? That you bombed Org II after doing so poorly in Org I seems predictable, no? Maybe you should have redone the first class first?

Oh well...LOL
 
ubuff716 said:
no a strong background in gen chem is not needed...the only thing covered in gen chem would be the orbital hybridizations and lewis structures but that's usually covered in the first chapter of orgo.

As far as tips go, try to stay on track with the professor. Meaning either finish reading and understanding the corresponding chapter before or after the professor does and also do every problem, especially in the beginning because once you've mastered the basics (Sn1/Sn2, E1/E2) everything just builds on from there and the rest will be as easy remembering which reagent does what. Sounds like a lot and it may be a little tough to do all this at first, especially if you're taking another science class like physics or w/e, but you'll find that it will become easier once you get a good schedule going. Hope that helps 🙂
Click to expand...

Thanks for that! Glad to here lol, i fear chem...and yes more worried because i am taking an upper level physics course (one of the most difficult at my school).

Also, the ochem classes last semester used the 6th edition Wade book, but i believe they are switching it to 9th or 10th edition Solomon's, any recommendations on books or supplemental material that may help?

I am aware of the "organic chemistry as a second language" and i have both, so besides that wondering if anything else is useful. Also would it be of any help to read ahead? Say a chapter or two?

Thanks.
 
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