How hard is pharm school?

[LegaLDeaLer]

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Hi guys,
I recently became a member, and im really glad i found this site! All ur posts have been so helpful, and u all seem really intelligent and humorous. Well i have just been accepted to the University of Houston COP and i'll be starting this August. But i'm just 19, and i was wondering if u guys could fill me in on how the work load is like in pharmacy school. The most ive handled is 14 hours per semester, 2 labs at a time, and i don't have any undergrad degree. I dont want to be in for a horrible surprise and not be able to cope up in pharm school! Any insight would be great. Thanks!

 

[spacecowgirl]

In a word - HARD! I carried quite a coarseload in my undergrad years but I was not adequately prepared for how difficult my program is. I have never studied so much in all my life (and I graduated with a 3.97 the first time).

 

[Ivorymist]

You just have to pace yourself and don't be too hung up with making all As. You will kill yourself if you try to maintain a 4.0 in pharmacy school. The workload is a step up (not a HUGE step, but a step nevertheless) from undergrad, but you should be fine. Just remember that hardly anyone ever fails out, so once you get accepted you should be able to make it through fine.

 

[gdk420]

All I have to say is enjoy first year. I rather take quantum mechanics again than infectious disease theraupetics. At least then I know I would be passing the class. I studied more during second year at USC than all of my years at undergrad combine. It is not super difficult, it is time consuming and at times very overwhelming with all the amount of papers, labs, work, presentation, exams, pop quizzes and health fairs.

 

[dgroulx]

During my senior year of undergrad, I carried 21 credit hours. 20 of those were science classes with lab - physics II, organic II, biochem, micro, and A & P I. Pharmacy school took up a little more time than that, even though it was only 18 credit hours the first semester. My grades in pharmacy school dropped to 3.34 GPA that semester, though I managed to bring it up during the spring term by increasing my study time. I thought I could study the same amount as undergrad but I was mistaken.

Year two is about 3X as hard as year one. Several students at UF are repeating their second year and they are all smart kids. I don't want that to happen to me, so I have resigned myself to not having a life for year two.

 

[npp71681]

Hi!
LegaLDeaLer

I am Pre-Pharmacy student. I am just 18. This semester, I am taking 18 credit hours(5 lecture classes) + (3 Labs). Plus, I am also working as a Pharmacy technician and also volunteering(total 20 hrs/week).
There is nothing in this world that you can't do it. A person can do everything they want, only if he/she afford to do it. To get something you have to loose something. So, work hard enough and go for the Pharmacy Program(Pharm.D). Again, if you work hard enough you can afford to do anything.

I hope this can help you!!!

 

[crying moo]

With 1 week left of 1st year, I can honestly say, Pharmacy school is not hard at all. I'm going to eat those words next year though, I hear.

My 2 year attempt at Chemical Engineering will always be harder than anything I could study in Pharm school. I only took 12-14 credits, I worked my butt off and I still didn't get it. I spent 6 hours on a simple problem, I cried, I got white hairs. 👎

Then I made the switch. I took 19 credits of Pharm prereq's, got straight A's, never studied, skipped class, got drunk and played PS2 and boyfriend every night. 👍 Ridiculous.

Then came Pharm school, and I actually care about the material, and it makes sense to me. My grades are averaging 89-90ish without too much stress. I have to study a reasonable amount but I feel that my studying is worthwhile and time well-spent.

"Hard" is relative, but I would say I study moderately light, with the occasional stressed out night-before-exam. You can skip some class but that just means more studying by yourself later. You can party plenty.

Some people might say Pharm school is tougher than Engineering, but it's all relative. I actually LIKE Pharmacy, therefore it can't be too tough, can it?

 

[LegaLDeaLer]

hey i already got a few replies, thanks guys =)
for those of u guys who are already in pharmacy school, do u all have other commitments as well, like work or family? are u able to handle all that?

 

[LegaLDeaLer]

crying moo what school do u go to, wow u must be one of those people who are just able to get all the concepts at once

 

[spacecowgirl]

Year two is about 3X as hard as year one. Several students at UF are repeating their second year and they are all smart kids. I don't want that to happen to me, so I have resigned myself to not having a life for year two.

Yup - that's pretty much what I've heard. *sigh* at least I have a very limited social life now, so I won't be missing much 😀

 

[spacecowgirl]

hey i already got a few replies, thanks guys =)
for those of u guys who are already in pharmacy school, do u all have other commitments as well, like work or family? are u able to handle all that?

Yes I work part-time (20 hours/week), do some volunteer work, am involved in ASP, and I have a family of 3...ok it's me, my husband and our dog, but it still takes time and sometimes I think my husband is at least at much work at as kid People in my class have children and they do have a difficult time balancing it all. There's just not enough time in the day it seems.

 

[Caverject]

Moo goes to VCU.

 

[Glycerin]

Moo goes to VCU.

Really? Hey Moo, would you tell me more about VCU? I'm thinking of applying there next year. I've read their website, but I'd like to hear from a student there, if possible. By the way, I'm not in Virginia, so I guess my biggest concern would be entrance stats for out-of-state students. 🙂

 

[dgroulx]

hey i already got a few replies, thanks guys =)
for those of u guys who are already in pharmacy school, do u all have other commitments as well, like work or family? are u able to handle all that?

I'm married with 1 dog and 7 cats. I work part time doing software support and occasional program mods for clients. Since it's my own company, I work from home and with distance learning my lectures are also at home. If a customer phones my 800 number, I pause my lecture and help the customer. I also spend about 6 hours a month doing the accounting and filing government forms.

 

[crying moo]

crying moo what school do u go to, wow u must be one of those people who are just able to get all the concepts at once

I'm sure all the upperclassmen here are laughing at my confidence as I move into 2nd year... we shall see.

FutureRxGal, I'll PM you about VCU, though I don't really know much about the inner-workings of my school. It's like, literally I got my engineering grades back, cried, rolled out of bed one day the next week and applied for the neareset Pharmacy school.

I can give you a little bit of good advice though 🙂

 

[jdpharmd?]

It's like, literally I got my engineering grades back, cried, rolled out of bed one day the next week and applied for the neareset Pharmacy school.

I can give you a little bit of good advice though 🙂

Crying Moo,

I hope you're not regretting the switch from engineering to pharmacy. I have at least three engineers in my pharmacy class (1 chem, 1 elect, 1 mech) and none of them seem to miss engineering too much. One of my undergrad roomates graduated with an engineering degree from Michigan State University in 2003... he still doesn't have a job. Cheers to pharmacy.

 

[crying moo]

Cheers to Pharmacy!

I was ChemE, and then I decided I didn't want to be stuck in a factory wearing earplugs with gallons of concentrated HCL running through pipes over my head... I will never miss classes like Heat Transfer, Statics, and Thermodynamics...

Would you rather be doing that, or being the drug expert? 👍 I found where I belong! (My mom did Pharmacy in Taiwan so I knew a little about what I was getting in to.)

(Yes, I would like a job too)

 

[spacecowgirl]

My good friend graduated in ChemE and hates it with a passion! She's thinking of taking a 50% paycut to go back to be a high school teacher.

I wouldn't want her job for the world!

 

[gdk420]

I would say nothing is really that difficult in pharmacy school. My toughest class in pharmacy school so far is even easier than my easiest class at undergrad. The concepts in infectious disease is way easier than quantum mechanics. But that doesn't mean that I did not struggle with the class. I struggle with it more than quantum. I would still take quantum mechanics anyday just simply because I am better at that than at infectious disease. Just so much to memorize and hold in ur head for infectious disease. The difficult thing in pharmacy school is the overwhelming amount of work. Between exams, work, presentations, paper, pop quizzes, and health fair, it can get to u easily. If you are good at managing ur time and have good work ethics, then u should do fine in pharmacy school. Plus if u are good at memorizing, then pharmacy school is right for u. If u are good a problem solving, then go for engineering would be better. it is all different to different people. Plus first year in pharmacy school honestly is nothing compared to second year. I studied more at second year of pharmacy school than all of my undergrad combined.

 

[28657]

My toughest class in pharmacy school so far is even easier than my easiest class at undergrad.

Hmm....are you sure about that? 🙄

 

[jdpharmd?]

I would say nothing is really that difficult in pharmacy school. My toughest class in pharmacy school so far is even easier than my easiest class at undergrad. ..... I studied more at second year of pharmacy school than all of my undergrad combined.

There is no way that my "toughest class in pharmacy school is easier than my easiest class in undergrad". I guess it really depends on where you go, but I really doubt that anyone is going to have this experience. I was rarely up past 11 studying for undergrad, and now I'm usually up until 2am twice a week cramming for 8am exams, only to have a 4 hour lab on the same day. School is what you make of it, and it's possible to have fun and have a life, but it is work and we all have to pass the same board exam eventually. 👍

 

[gdk420]

I agree with you jdpharmD in the sense that I also stay up later studying in pharmacy school than in my undergrad and I never work as hard as I did in pharmacy school. I am also way more stress out in pharmacy school than my undergrad. But at the same time, I would say no class I ever took in pharmacy school can compared to quantum mechanics. Outside of chemE classes, other engineering classes, abstract math, and physic classes, there is no class more difficult than quantum mechanics. But I struggle way more with infectious/antimicrobial theraupeutics than my quantum class just simply, that was more of my cup of tea. The level of difficult is different for everyone. Some people are stronger in some areas than in other areas.

 

[dgroulx]

Plus if u are good at memorizing, then pharmacy school is right for u. If u are good a problem solving, then go for engineering would be better.

I don't know where you go to school, but we have lots of problem solving in our classes. One professor told me that if you memorize the notes you can make a C in the class. They design the tests so that memorizers can pass, but you need to understand concepts to make an A.

 

[spacecowgirl]

I don't know where you go to school, but we have lots of problem solving in our classes. One professor told me that if you memorize the notes you can make a C in the class. They design the tests so that memorizers can pass, but you need to understand concepts to make an A.

Really 🙄 , I agree 100% Anyone that gets through pharm school using memorization will make a horrible, horrible pharmacist.

 

[ultracet]

Memorize????? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA....
Yeah... Last semester in our Pcol 1 class we had some people who tried the memorization thing......
They are no longer with us in the 2nd year....
It obviously depends on where you go to pharm school.
Our tests are designed not to test facts but to test whether or not you can problem solve, analize, and actually USE the information.
Of course not every class is like that. But the "major" classes are.

As far as the difficulty of pharm school... It depends on you. Where you went to undergrad, the classes you took, and what you're good in.

The first year was just like taking a full load in undergrad. Our curriculum includes 19-23 hrs a semester. I didn't work all that hard the first year.
Honestly, I still don't work as hard as I probably should. I do just fine in classes but I do study more than 24hrs in advance this year.... And I do read over things more than once...

 

[imperial frog]

I would say nothing is really that difficult in pharmacy school. My toughest class in pharmacy school so far is even easier than my easiest class at undergrad.

I studied more at second year of pharmacy school than all of my undergrad combined.

Those statements seem at odds with each other. If you have to study that much more, wouldn't that imply the material is more difficult?

If you are good at managing ur time and have good work ethics, then u should do fine in pharmacy school. Plus if u are good at memorizing, then pharmacy school is right for u. If u are good a problem solving, then go for engineering would be better.

Let's hear it for problem-solving pharmacists. To be honest, I would rather have a problem-solving pharmacist than someone who can't but has a good memory and goes to lunch on time.

 

[spoons]

There is no way that my "toughest class in pharmacy school is easier than my easiest class in undergrad". I guess it really depends on where you go, but I really doubt that anyone is going to have this experience. I was rarely up past 11 studying for undergrad, and now I'm usually up until 2am twice a week cramming for 8am exams, only to have a 4 hour lab on the same day. School is what you make of it, and it's possible to have fun and have a life, but it is work and we all have to pass the same board exam eventually. 👍

How on earth do you guys survive on such a little sleep? Wouldn't that affect your performance?

 

[Oxycotin]

so do you think that joining a few organizations like in undergrad and being involved is still alright as long as you study a bit longer in your free time to make up for the tougher materal?

 

[Asnchic]

When I was in my high school clinical class, a pharmacist there was a graduate of UT and she told me this really awesome story about this lady that she once worked with a few years back. This woman was in her 40's, she had had 3 children, and was still needing to support them after she divorced her husband of 10 or so years. So...there she is, alone, but she decides that she wants to do Pharmacy and gets enrolled in a college, takes the pre-reqs, works several jobs, and within time, she's on one of those honor societies. Miracle? I'd say she worked a whole hell of a lot for that and she's a pharmacist now and had the dinero to put her kids through school. Nothing but respect.

It's stories like that that make me believe that if these people can do it, then I should be able to too. I haven't even started my first year yet and I have a friend who is beginning their second pre-req years with a 3.0 GPA who used to be a mathematical genius in my eyes. But well, the stress of it all is what he says forces him to need to go out and party. Like that person before said, it being hard is relative to how much you're willing to work for what you want.

 

[pharmer]

Relative is the key word here. How hard pharmacy school is will be relative to your program and to what one would considers "hard." If you want a 4.0 you can get one. If you honestly learn the material then a B is no problem. If all you care about is getting that C=PharmD then studying the night before an exam should allow you that as well as a glorious 4 years in pharmacy school. I graduated with a PharmD in 2003 and can say I had ample time to party, sleep, get engaged, etc. I also can say I spent ample time studying too. There is enough time to do everything as long as one time manages appropriately. My last year before clinical rotations I spent what seemed to be an enormous amount of time in my room studying as I was also taking Phys II with lab and studying for the MCAT on top of my pharmacy school classes but I still had time to go out and work too. Again the key work is "relative." My first year of medical school was relatively tougher than pharmacy school but I still would not consider it excrutiating (sp).

 

[PhatPharm]

since it came up i'll use here's my thought.

i graduated from michigan state with a ChemE in 2002 and like at least half the graduating people in my class didn't find a job.

what's funny though is that ChE 201, itro to ChemE, is offered 5 times a year. all the other ChE classses are offered only once a year with the same number of students. Except for a few biochem majors and such that take ChE 201 as an elective, the discrepencie is explained by about 75% of the students deciding not to continue with ChE after ChE 201. Going through those classes you get to work a lot with your classmates and get to know them, and I'll tell you about half of my graduating class(myself included) regretted not having switched majors, due to its difficulty and time consumption. If you start working though the jobs are't bad, and grad students in ChE always told me how undergrad was so much tougher than getting a masters or PhD.

To put it in perspective, the level of difficulty between a ChE class and Calc. III was the same difference as Calc. III compared to algebra. Now maybe some of the above people can understand what we mean by "problem solving". That kind of problem solving dosn't apply to healthcare fields, with the possible exception of someone working in R&D. Otherwise healthcare students would be required to take higher math classes and calculus based science classes that engineers have to take.

 

[Mags]

so do you think that joining a few organizations like in undergrad and being involved is still alright as long as you study a bit longer in your free time to make up for the tougher materal?

OF course!! I'm all for it.. But I will say this. It depends on YOU!!!

Myself, I've always been involved, and I've always been a person who'd rather be involved and have a 3.0, than not being involved and have a 4.0.

1st year really was a breeze. Not saying I have a 4.0 , b/c I dont. But I found it a lot easier than undergrad for a couple of reasons:

1) youve got 80 other *sisters and brothers* who are going through the same exact thing you are.. you can vent, scream, lean on one another, and study with one another

2) you're not lumped into those general science courses with ALL other pre meds, pre dent, pre nursing, and driven to the "average grade".. its all about you and how YOU perform.

3)its basic classes.... and the teachers WANT you to learn.. at least i know this is true for our school.. i mean there will always be exceptions *cough medchem cough*.. but.. for the most part.. you KNOW the teachers want you to learn and understand.. and thats inspiring...

as for getting involved.. i'd highly recommend it.. i know my first year wouldnt have been half as exciting and inspiring, if i wasnt involved.... I chose to be part of our schools umbrella organization, and i have gained so much from it in the first year.

i found it definitely doo-able.. i have a 3.5, and now hold an office with our student government.. all the people i have met, the experiences i have had, the opportunities to advance patient care, even as a student, and progress pharmacy positively in the community , are worth not having a 4.0, to me...

i'd say go for it...

i'm hoping to run for apha regionals and nationals, b/c my experiences this past year, have inspired me that even as a student, we can bring change to our profession, and our profession IS changing...

anyhoo.. i'll step off the soap box now 😀

 

[fob12]

Hey gdk420, what if you are not good at memorizing or problem solving? I am just terrible at both.. 🙂

 

[baggywrinkle]

OF course!! I'm all for it.. But I will say this. It depends on YOU!!!


1) youve got 80 other *sisters and brothers* who are going through the same exact thing you are.. you can vent, scream, lean on one another, and study with one another

😀

Amen to that. In my toxicology class it was tradition that there be one or
two designated note takers who also taped the lecture while the rest of us
went skiing....

 

[PharmDMD]

Hey LegalDealer,

Nice to meet ya, I was in your shoes about 4 years ago, almost literally (being a UH College of Pharmacy Grad) I was the youngest in my class (which I'm sure you also will be if not one of the younger ones) Hmmm..my transition wasn't too difficult because I had a really intense undergrad year (singular) Even with AP class credit and initial junior standing at the end of high school, I had alot to still do before starting so I averaged about 16-17 hrs/semester with 8 hrs the summer after HS and 9 hrs the summer before Rx school.

First year tips: Listen at orientation, get some buds you can hang and talk to (pharmacy school is a pain when done alone)--by the time I was done with Rx school I knew my class (all 110 of em) and many of my underclassmen. I had worked through the first 2 semesters of Rx school, but then decided to forgo that arrangement when I realized I wasnt being paid enough to be a tech and classes/extracurrics took up alot of my time. Rx school and especially UH can be a really friendly place if you let it be. Don't just run away after class each day and go study, study a couple of hours at the Rx library and meet up with some RELIABLE and RESPONSIBLE peers to review notes and even hang out some. OSLS (basically Medical Physiology) and CLS (Medical Biochem/Immunology) were perhaps what got many students in the first year, so make sure you don't miss those classes and bring a recorder to capture those precious but often hastily said words that will reappear on exams. Fraternities--hmmm.. you can join one if you want (after you decide you can handle it and also that you really want to) Dont join frats for extra notes/study guides. That's why you have friends who are in frats that help you out. Even then, you don't need more than a brain, your books and notes, and some trusty friends to keep you academically afloat in Rx school. I graduated 4th in my pharmacy class and was president of Rho Chi (Pharmaceutical Honor society), but I was a social person (most profs and definitly my colleagues knew me) I was president of Pharmacy Council (Student Body Govt) my 2nd year. And no I never did join any of the frats, but some of my best buds were presidents of the three fraternities at UHCOP. The clump of work that leads to the first row of exams should give you a good idea of how the rest of Year 1 will work. Year 2 is another story (lol)

But if you have any spec questions you'd like to ask you're more than welcome to email me ([email protected])

 

[Womack]

Could those presently in Pharm school give me an honest comparison between science courses in ungrad vs. classes in pharmacy school? I know there's always a tendency to always complain and moan about the situation one is presently in but does it take an extraordinary effort to keep up in classes or should most who've done reasonably well in undergrad be able to keep up with enough hard work?

 

[ultracet]

its a lot more material
to a lot greater degree of detail

undergrad was a breeze for me
pharmacy school required studying

i believe this has been discussed so you may want to try a search

 

[Womack]

its a lot more material
to a lot greater degree of detail

undergrad was a breeze for me
pharmacy school required studying

i believe this has been discussed so you may want to try a search

Thanks for your input.

I've searched all through the threads but most of what I've found is a lot of venting of frustrations. I just want people to take an overall perspective to try to gain a little perspective from those with actual experience. Does it take a superhuman effort to just keep up? Or with a dedication to studying can one get along fine with the the obvious panic moments during finals and such?

 

[thaliagoo]

Could those presently in Pharm school give me an honest comparison between science courses in ungrad vs. classes in pharmacy school? I know there's always a tendency to always complain and moan about the situation one is presently in but does it take an extraordinary effort to keep up in classes or should most who've done reasonably well in undergrad be able to keep up with enough hard work?

I'd say it's hard to answer that question because it depends where you went for undergrad. If you went to a state school, then pharmacy will probably be harder. If you went to a school that is ranked in the top 50 or so, then it's probably the same. When I went to UCSF, one said pharmacy was easier (she was a 1st year)... As for me, I worked my little butt off in undergrad so I can't imagine putting more effort than that 😳

 

[walkamile]

I personally thought the prepharm classes were very easy. I personally think the whole pharmacy agenda can be challenging at times.

I feel that if a person is good enough to pass the pcat, get the GPA, jump through the hoops to get accepted into pharmacy school then they are good enough to pass pharmacy school.

The major difficulty with passing pharmacy school is #1 having enough time to do what is required of you and #2 dealing with the stress primarily caused by #1

I am a p3 about to go out on rotations. Since the start of the p1 year we have lost about 20% of our class. However, out of all of those people we have lost, only 1 person failed out because she just couldn't pass the tests no matter how much she studied. The rest of the people who are no longer in my class are lost due to self inflicted reasons (not putting in the effort, getting mad and quitting and even getting caught doing bad things with controlled substances).

Once you are accepted into pharmacy school its really only a question of if you want to pass bad enough to put the time into the work that it requires.

 

[crossjb]

If you went to a state school, then pharmacy will probably be harder. If you went to a school that is ranked in the top 50 or so, then it's probably the same.

That's very true. I went through Michigan's engineering curriculum.

I expect pharmacy school to be challenging, but not more so than that.

 

[Joyful~]

I'd say it's hard to answer that question because it depends where you went for undergrad. If you went to a state school, then pharmacy will probably be harder. If you went to a school that is ranked in the top 50 or so, then it's probably the same. When I went to UCSF, one said pharmacy was easier (she was a 1st year)... As for me, I worked my little butt off in undergrad so I can't imagine putting more effort than that 😳

Agree. It really depends on where you went for undergrad/ pre-pharm courses. I finished my BS at a UC school and am currently at an out of state pharmacy school, I find it a bit easier. It's not like you don't need to study, but i definitely studied a whole lot more in undergrad. Hope this helps.

 

[shal]

I studied more in undergrad compared to my quarters in pharmacy school so far. This quarter we started therpeutics and I feel like I am studying the same as undergrad.

 

[museabuse]

If you went to a state school, then pharmacy will probably be harder. If you went to a school that is ranked in the top 50 or so, then it's probably the same.

That's very true. I went through Michigan's engineering curriculum.

I expect pharmacy school to be challenging, but not more so than that.

Well according to thaliagoo, your wrong because you went to a state school. Where does the statement that all state schools are easier than pharmacy come from?
I think it matters on your major...

To me pharmacy is just pure memorization. THere really is no difficuclt concepts except maybe some pharmacokinetic equations and some organic review of acid and base equations. Besides those two it has been pretty much memorization. It is A LOT of memorization and when people do bad it is usually they didn't study enough to let everything sink in or the questions were written poorly.

If you majored in something hard like calculus, engineering, or physics then pharmacy is probably going to be easier. I can study some physics stuff for hours and hours and never understand it, but in pharmacy as long as you take the time you shouldn't have a problem doing well.

 

[DownonthePharm]

Michigan's engineering curriculum is in the top 50 of engineering programs. Therefore the theory still stands. 🙂

 

[crossjb]

Michigan's engineering curriculum is in the top 50 of engineering programs. Therefore the theory still stands. 🙂

EECS (Electrical Engineering and Computer Science) was brutal...

If you visit Ann Arbor, stay away from North Campus at all costs -- too many nerds per square foot... 😀

 

[DownonthePharm]

Are you still living in Michigan crossjb?

You know, I really shouldnt be defending you...I am a MSU alum. 😀

 

[museabuse]

Michigan's engineering curriculum is in the top 50 of engineering programs. Therefore the theory still stands. 🙂

The theory is still flawed because he is saying if you went to the school that ranked number 1 in glass blowing, and majored in glass blowing, then pharmacy is going to be easy for you.

It still depends on your major.

But yeah pharmacy is much easier than the university of illinois engineering curriculum.

Pharmacy is about memorization. If you are good at that you will do good in pharmacy school. However it doesn't reflect how much you know.

I am good at cramming and short term memorization... I do well on exams. However I do believe in the long run I will end up knowing less than people that study longer than me and get lower grades.

 

[ultracet]

ok folks...
it really honestly depends on the individual and your strengths...
i know people who breezed through engineering and struggled daily through pharmacy

 

[Bluhappy102]

I find it easier to study (not that the classes are easier) in pharma cy school because I actually want to learn this stuff and I know I'll be using most of it in my chosen career. Also compared to my undergrad experience..the professors are better here...

I'm a lot better at managing my time now than when I was in undergrad which helps.