How has med school affected your views on God?

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TOcho118

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So my question is this. The intricacies of the human body...evolution at it's finest or God's handiwork? 10 year-old children dying from cancer and car crashes...God's will or evidence that God must not exist?

From an entirely non-religious point of view, how has med school influenced (if at all) your belief in a higher power?
 
I knew that this thread had been started by a premed even b4 opening it. Was this divination or simply just a lucky guess? 😱
 
Every time I pass a test, it's a miracle. Therefore, God must exist.
 
So my question is this. The intricacies of the human body...evolution at it's finest or God's handiwork? 10 year-old children dying from cancer and car crashes...God's will or evidence that God must not exist?

From an entirely non-religious point of view, how has med school influenced (if at all) your belief in a higher power?

I imagine most people in their 20s+ are capable of sticking to their beliefs.
 
I knew that this thread had been started by a premed even b4 opening it. Was this divination or simply just a lucky guess? 😱

Not sure how that is relevant. Yes, I have not started med school yet but why should that preclude me from asking medical students about their experiences in med school and how it's influenced them?
 
Didn't believe in the nonsense before med school and have not found any gods during it so far.
 
tumblr_lgbilzDkVB1qf8yek.gif
 
Every time I pass a test, it's a miracle. Therefore, God must exist.

👍👍👍

In all seriousness, I do believe in a higher power. I don't really know how to explain my reasoning on here, but yes I do believe in God.
 
I believe theres a higher power. And if you don't agree, cool. Its an individual thing and anyone who tries to push their views on me needs to stfu...just like I don't go around telling atheists they should believe in something...none of my business
 
Every time I pass a test, it's a miracle. Therefore, God must exist.
some higher power had to go back and change all my wrong answers to right ones. Since I'm doubting the proctors like me that much, it's gotta be God.
 
Religion is a fairy tale humans make up so they don't have to feel scared about dying and to justify their actions. It is among most narcissistic things we do, to imagine that we are so important, so special that we are deserving of an eternal existance with an all-powerful creator by our sides. If there is a God, my pea sized brain is incappable of understanding it.

I am agnostic and everything in medicine that I have seen has supported this belief.
 
+1


OP, nice job on starting what is sure to be one of the worst threads ever. n00b.
👎thumbdown👎thumbdown👎thumbdown

Give the guy a break. The question of the existence of God is probably the most contemplated question in history. Therefore, its pretty much relevant even if the OP is a "pre-med n00b".

To the OP: medical education isn't big on philosophy and you understand the scientific basis of cells and its evolutionary implications well before you start. I don't think any understanding of God is revealed by your curriculum; probably just your own evolution of thought from living another 4 years.
 
simple answer - no, it has not affected or changed my views in any way. Btw, this is a troll thread right?
 
+1
OP, nice job on starting what is sure to be one of the worst threads ever. n00b.

10:1 this thread gets at least 3 pages of replies.

To the OP, the only time I believe in, "god," is when there is a good possibility I am going to die (e.g. a tornado setting down while I'm driving down the highway, driving through Detroit, etc). And yeah, I realize there is a Family Guy episode that deals with that...but whatever, I have to get to the soup kitchen I guess...some promise I made awhile back...
 
So my question is this. The intricacies of the human body...evolution at it's finest or God's handiwork? 10 year-old children dying from cancer and car crashes...God's will or evidence that God must not exist?

From an entirely non-religious point of view, how has med school influenced (if at all) your belief in a higher power?

(Medicine) There is no God.

(Surgery) I am God.

(Psych) Its cool bro, this voices in your head can be your own personal god. Me? I try to get closer and closer to heaven every time I take a hit. <takes hit>

(Peds) Crying over 10 year old with cancer

(Neuro) There is a god, but I cant do anything about it. tPA, anyone? <nibble on a tPA cookie, pushing glasses farther up nose>

(Ortho) God? Me like god. Taste like meat.
 
simple answer - no, it has not affected or changed my views in any way. Btw, this is a troll thread right?

I don't think OP is trolling. But I agree - medical school probably won't change your faith, or your lack of it. All of the Christian med students I know are still very much Christian; all the non-religious ones remain so.

I think by the time you get to med school, you'd have figured out pretty much where you stand (unless you're still "searching"). For most of my Christian friends, they said their faith underwent the biggest transition during high school/undergraduate years.
 
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It hasn't changed my views. I'd say I'm an agnostic, because that is where the issue lies scientifically. The existence of a supreme being cannot be proven or disproven based on the available information.

What boggles my mind is that people, claiming to want to practice evidence based medicine, and after slogging through an undergrad science curriculum, can still hold the more extreme beliefs (like creationism). But to each his own.
 
10:1 this thread gets at least 3 pages of replies.

To the OP, the only time I believe in, "god," is when there is a good possibility I am going to die (e.g. a tornado setting down while I'm driving down the highway, driving through Detroit, etc). And yeah, I realize there is a Family Guy episode that deals with that...but whatever, I have to get to the soup kitchen I guess...some promise I made awhile back...

no such thing as an atheist in a foxhole eh?
 
It hasn't changed my views. I'd say I'm an agnostic, because that is where the issue lies scientifically. The existence of a supreme being cannot be proven or disproven based on the available information.

What boggles my mind is that people, claiming to want to practice evidence based medicine, and after slogging through an undergrad science curriculum, can still hold the more extreme beliefs (like creationism). But to each his own.

honestly, learning about how crazy complicated the human body is and how everything just works has the exact opposite effect on me. And yes, I realize that most of med school will be about how the body doesn't "just work" and everything that can go wrong with it which is mainly the reason I asked the original question. Either way, like you said, to each his own...now if only everyone in the world felt that way...
 
Religion is a fairy tale humans make up so they don't have to feel scared about dying and to justify their actions. It is among most narcissistic things we do, to imagine that we are so important, so special that we are deserving of an eternal existance with an all-powerful creator by our sides. If there is a God, my pea sized brain is incappable of understanding it.

I am agnostic and everything in medicine that I have seen has supported this belief.

How is agnosticism a belief? Being agnostic just means you are not sure if any God exists or doesn't exist.

The idea that religion is made so people don't feel scared about dying doesn't make sense. The Abrahamic religions believe in an eternal hellfire that most people will burn in, how is that comforting?
 
I believe in a higher power of some sort. Would take too long and more patience than I have to explain. Other than that, who cares what you believe in, ultimately your actions represent who you are as a person.
 
How is agnosticism a belief? Being agnostic just means you are not sure if any God exists or doesn't exist.

The idea that religion is made so people don't feel scared about dying doesn't make sense. The Abrahamic religions believe in an eternal hellfire that most people will burn in, how is that comforting?

Because no one actually thinks that they will go to hell. Its the same idea as why people play the lotto or engage in anything that is statistically impossible. Every human, in some way, feels that they are special. They think that the feelings and emotions that they experience are in some way unique to them. People are terrified at a young age of the thought of themselves not existing, and as such we make coping mechanisms for this fear. We are indoctrinated as children that there is a mysterious man watching everything we do who will later pass judgment upon our souls and let us live or suffer forever. But because we all think we are special, we always imagine ourselves as being picked to go to heaven. Other religions all have variations of the same thing, you do enough "good" things on earth, you get to live forever. And then we justify the things that we do by whether or not they are "good" in the eyes of said creator. It is the simple narcissistic nature of humans.

In all fairness, I would rather live in a world with religion than without. I find that people tend to be nicer and more caring when they think God is judging them. And I have really no problem with most religion, most seem to follow a pretty decent moral path. In the end humans are probably much better off as a group because of it.

Agnostics have three ways of looking at God
1. I cant know God, You cant know God
2. I can't know God, you may be able to
3. I may be able to , you may be able to but neither of us will ever be correct.

I find agnosticism to be a very healthy way of looking at life. Because of the inherint limitations of our understanding/minds, even our smallest rational for a God is probably just silly. As such there is simply no reason to ever try to understand God because we are functionally unable to do so. There is an elligigant beauty that holds all life together that we have no true understanding of. We will be on this silly little planet with our silly meaningless problems for such a short time that there is no reason not to treat every other meaningless person with the utmost respect and dignity and to simply be in awe of the wonder that is our existence. I feel comfort in knowing that I have one life to live, that I should try to live this one to the fullest, and I don't need to make up fairy tales about golden gates to make me sleep at night.

Sure sounds like a belief to me.
 
The existence of a supreme being cannot be proven or disproven based on the available information.

The existence of almost anything you can imagine cannot be proven or disproven. Doesn't mean you have to entertain them all as serious possibilities.
 
How is agnosticism a belief? Being agnostic just means you are not sure if any God exists or doesn't exist.

The idea that religion is made so people don't feel scared about dying doesn't make sense. The Abrahamic religions believe in an eternal hellfire that most people will burn in, how is that comforting?

That's why Judaism is the best of them all. What hell? A little snippy snippy at birth, a little prayer at 13. Say you're sorry once a year, and WHAM! Mitzvah = Heaven.
 
One of my best memories of 3rd year was scrubbing in on a low anterior resection when the jukebox in the OR started playing Johny Cash...


Oh God said to Abraham, "Kill me a son"
Abe says, "Man, you must be puttin' me on"
God say, "No." Abe say, "What?"
God say, "You can do what you want Abe, but
The next time you see me comin' you better run"
Well Abe says, "Where do you want this killin' done?"
God says, "Out on Highway 61."

good times....
 
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So my question is this. The intricacies of the human body...evolution at it's finest or God's handiwork? 10 year-old children dying from cancer and car crashes...God's will or evidence that God must not exist?

From an entirely non-religious point of view, how has med school influenced (if at all) your belief in a higher power?

I think this deserves a serious answer:

The reason that I think the very first poster on this thread commented on your premedical status is that premeds (like most people who haven't been through it) tend to think that medical training is more spiritually challenging than it really is. The feeling is that medicine, like a mission trip, or a war, or maybe just a really good social sciences class, forces you to confront a part of reality that we normally try very hard not to look at. The theory goes that you thereby must necessarily change in a fundamental way as you try and reconclile your beliefs with what you now can't help seeing. It's a common view, and one that is very played up on film and television.

But the reality, at least for me, honestly isn't like that. Modern medicine is very sanitized and very compartmentalized. You see very small portions of your patients' care, very small parts of their tragedies. The ones you connect with on a human level you never see get really sick, or if they do go downhill they get passed off to a specialist long before things get bad, and when things get even worse the specialist passes them off to an intensivist, or surgeon, or hospice. And if you are the intensivist or the surgeon the patient doesn't really register in the same way. They don't talk, they're not conscious, they turn into a bundle of lab values and treatments. Not something that you cry over.

And even when you do get to see the degeneration/death of a patient who you actually knew when they could communicate, it's still very sanitized. As a general rule if you're in the hospital we're going to make sure that you at least don't LOOK like you're suffering. There is very little blood on the floor, small surgical fields, little crying, almost no screaming. There are grief specialists to handle the grief, and even the physicians' brief contact with that NEVER involves the medical student. And when all else fails there's just the fact that we don't spend very much time with individual patients. I just don't feel a hole in my life because something tragic happend to someone who I've had less than an hour of actual contact with. I'm not a cold hearted person, but like most people I need to have some sort of a real human connection to feel a loss. The times I've lost family members, or even family pets, went much farther towards advancing my religious beliefs than everything I've seen in medicine put together.

From my cadavar onwards medicine has been full of things that I consciously know ought to have moved me, but which just haven't. They were too removed from me, and often didn't have enough humanity left to connect with. Maybe it will be different when I'm in Pediatrics. Maybe neonatologists and Peds Heme/onc specialists, who see children fade away over the course of months or even years, might have their faith affected by their professions. Honestly a big part of the reason I'm going into Peds is because those are some of the only patients that I felt like I both connected to and could help (normally its one or the other, if either). Until then, though, I just don't think that medicine is visceral enough to really change or challenge my views on God, spirituality, or the nature of existence. No more than those beliefs would naturally change with introspection and time.
 
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I think this deserves a serious answer:

The reason that I the very first poster on this thread commented on your premedical status is that premeds (like most people who haven't been through it) tend to think that medical training is more spiritually challenging than it really is. The feeling is that medicine, like a mission trip, or a war, or maybe just a really good social sciences class, forces you to confront a part of reality that we normally try very hard not to look at and thereby changes you in a fundamental way as you try and reconclile your beliefs with what you now can't help seeing. It's a common view, and one that is very played up on film and television.

But the reality, at least for me, honestly isn't like that. Modern medicine is very sanitized and very compartmentalized. You see very small portions of your patients' care, very small parts of their tragedies. The ones you connect with on a human level you never see get really sick: they get passed off to a specialist long before things get bad, and when things get even worse the specialist passes them off to an intensivist, or surgeon, or hospice. And if you are the intensivist or the surgeon the patient doesn't really register in the same way. They don't talk, they're not conscious, they turn into a bundle of lab values and treatments. Not something that you cry over.

And even when you do get to see the degeneration/death of a patient who you actually knew when they could communicate, it's still very sanitized. As a general rule if you're in the hospital we're going to make sure that you at least don't LOOK like you're suffering. There is very little blood, little crying, no screaming. There are grief specialists to handle the grief, and even the physicians' brief contact with that NEVER involves the medical student. And when all else fails there's just the fact that we don't spend very much time with individual patients. I just don't feel a hole in my life because something tragic happend to someone who I've had less than an hour of actual contact with. I'm not a cold hearted person, but like most people I need to have some sort of a real human connection to feel a loss. The times I've lost family members, or even family pets, went much farther towards advancing my religious beliefs than everything I've seen in medicine put together.

From my cadavar onwards medicine has been full of things that I consciously know ought to have moved me, but which just haven't. They were too removed from me, and often didn't have enough humanity left to connect with. Maybe it will be different when I'm in Pediatrics. Maybe neonatologists and Peds Heme/onc specialists, who see children fade away over the course of months or even years, might have their faith affected by their professions. Honestly a big part of the reason I'm going into Peds is because those are some of the only patients that I felt like I both connected to and could help (normally its one or the other, if either). Until then, though, I just don't think that medicine is visceral enough to really change or challenge my views on God, spirituality, or the nature of existence. No more than those beliefs would naturally change with introspection and time.

I agree with this. I tell people that medicine is not about helping people, its about managing disease. If by managing a disease better you improve someones life, then its been a good day.
 
I think this deserves a serious answer:

The reason that I think the very first poster on this thread commented on your premedical status is that premeds (like most people who haven't been through it) tend to think that medical training is more spiritually challenging than it really is. The feeling is that medicine, like a mission trip, or a war, or maybe just a really good social sciences class, forces you to confront a part of reality that we normally try very hard not to look at. The theory goes that you thereby must necessarily change in a fundamental way as you try and reconclile your beliefs with what you now can't help seeing. It's a common view, and one that is very played up on film and television.

But the reality, at least for me, honestly isn't like that. Modern medicine is very sanitized and very compartmentalized. You see very small portions of your patients' care, very small parts of their tragedies. The ones you connect with on a human level you never see get really sick, or if they do go downhill they get passed off to a specialist long before things get bad, and when things get even worse the specialist passes them off to an intensivist, or surgeon, or hospice. And if you are the intensivist or the surgeon the patient doesn't really register in the same way. They don't talk, they're not conscious, they turn into a bundle of lab values and treatments. Not something that you cry over.

And even when you do get to see the degeneration/death of a patient who you actually knew when they could communicate, it's still very sanitized. As a general rule if you're in the hospital we're going to make sure that you at least don't LOOK like you're suffering. There is very little blood on the floor, small surgical fields, little crying, almost no screaming. There are grief specialists to handle the grief, and even the physicians' brief contact with that NEVER involves the medical student. And when all else fails there's just the fact that we don't spend very much time with individual patients. I just don't feel a hole in my life because something tragic happend to someone who I've had less than an hour of actual contact with. I'm not a cold hearted person, but like most people I need to have some sort of a real human connection to feel a loss. The times I've lost family members, or even family pets, went much farther towards advancing my religious beliefs than everything I've seen in medicine put together.

From my cadavar onwards medicine has been full of things that I consciously know ought to have moved me, but which just haven't. They were too removed from me, and often didn't have enough humanity left to connect with. Maybe it will be different when I'm in Pediatrics. Maybe neonatologists and Peds Heme/onc specialists, who see children fade away over the course of months or even years, might have their faith affected by their professions. Honestly a big part of the reason I'm going into Peds is because those are some of the only patients that I felt like I both connected to and could help (normally its one or the other, if either). Until then, though, I just don't think that medicine is visceral enough to really change or challenge my views on God, spirituality, or the nature of existence. No more than those beliefs would naturally change with introspection and time.

Thank you, this is a very good perspective
 
I think this deserves a serious answer:

The reason that I think the very first poster on this thread commented on your premedical status is that premeds (like most people who haven't been through it) tend to think that medical training is more spiritually challenging than it really is. The feeling is that medicine, like a mission trip, or a war, or maybe just a really good social sciences class, forces you to confront a part of reality that we normally try very hard not to look at. The theory goes that you thereby must necessarily change in a fundamental way as you try and reconclile your beliefs with what you now can't help seeing. It's a common view, and one that is very played up on film and television.

But the reality, at least for me, honestly isn't like that. Modern medicine is very sanitized and very compartmentalized. You see very small portions of your patients' care, very small parts of their tragedies. The ones you connect with on a human level you never see get really sick, or if they do go downhill they get passed off to a specialist long before things get bad, and when things get even worse the specialist passes them off to an intensivist, or surgeon, or hospice. And if you are the intensivist or the surgeon the patient doesn't really register in the same way. They don't talk, they're not conscious, they turn into a bundle of lab values and treatments. Not something that you cry over.

And even when you do get to see the degeneration/death of a patient who you actually knew when they could communicate, it's still very sanitized. As a general rule if you're in the hospital we're going to make sure that you at least don't LOOK like you're suffering. There is very little blood on the floor, small surgical fields, little crying, almost no screaming. There are grief specialists to handle the grief, and even the physicians' brief contact with that NEVER involves the medical student. And when all else fails there's just the fact that we don't spend very much time with individual patients. I just don't feel a hole in my life because something tragic happend to someone who I've had less than an hour of actual contact with. I'm not a cold hearted person, but like most people I need to have some sort of a real human connection to feel a loss. The times I've lost family members, or even family pets, went much farther towards advancing my religious beliefs than everything I've seen in medicine put together.

From my cadavar onwards medicine has been full of things that I consciously know ought to have moved me, but which just haven't. They were too removed from me, and often didn't have enough humanity left to connect with. Maybe it will be different when I'm in Pediatrics. Maybe neonatologists and Peds Heme/onc specialists, who see children fade away over the course of months or even years, might have their faith affected by their professions. Honestly a big part of the reason I'm going into Peds is because those are some of the only patients that I felt like I both connected to and could help (normally its one or the other, if either). Until then, though, I just don't think that medicine is visceral enough to really change or challenge my views on God, spirituality, or the nature of existence. No more than those beliefs would naturally change with introspection and time.

Wow...great explanation, thanks for posting this.
 
One of my best memories of 3rd year was scrubbing in on a low anterior resection when the jukebox in the OR started playing Johny Cash...


Oh God said to Abraham, "Kill me a son"
Abe says, "Man, you must be puttin' me on"
God say, "No." Abe say, "What?"
God say, "You can do what you want Abe, but
The next time you see me comin' you better run"
Well Abe says, "Where do you want this killin' done?"
God says, "Out on Highway 61."

good times....

I believe you mean Bob Dylan...
 
I imagine most people in their 20s+ are capable of sticking to their beliefs.

This. Most people intelligent enough to make it to med school have also intelligently given serious contemplation to their core values by the time they make it to med school. It's not like they'd never heard of kids having cancer before stepping on the wards 🙄
 
I can't answer the OP's question, b/c I start medical school in August.

However, I want to say that I disagree with the idea that religion exists only as a security blanket from death. It's really not clear what purpose religion serves us, if any at all. Heck, our belief in God might be due to an anatomical artifact of evolution residing in our brains. It's a little sloppy to just wave the matter away and dismiss it.

That said, I am atheist--not agnostic to any degree. I find the idea of an omnipotent creator and an afterlife ludicrous. I don't believe in Genesis any more than I do astrology. I guess that I lack that part of the brain that turns you on to God.
 
What ever happened to the good old days when pre-meds were terrified to start threads in Allo? Did the mods all go soft or something??
 
It just makes me feel bad that so many medical students have absolutely no respect for the beliefs of others.

but as others said, don't think there's gonna be any big changes to spiritual beliefs or characters. dicks remain dicks through med school, no matter how hard they're gonna try to teach compassionate care to you.
 
I can't answer the OP's question, b/c I start medical school in August.

However, I want to say that I disagree with the idea that religion exists only as a security blanket from death. It's really not clear what purpose religion serves us, if any at all. Heck, our belief in God might be due to an anatomical artifact of evolution residing in our brains. It's a little sloppy to just wave the matter away and dismiss it.

That said, I am atheist--not agnostic to any degree. I find the idea of an omnipotent creator and an afterlife ludicrous. I don't believe in Genesis any more than I do astrology. I guess that I lack that part of the brain that turns you on to God.

If it weren't for Eastern philosophies I'd say I was atheist, as well. The concept of a personal (personified) god is very prevalent in Western religion and I think it is ridiculous. I definitely don't believe in a 'god' in the Western sense (creator). However, notably, Zen Buddhism and Advaita Hinduism have completely changed my outlook on reality. I'd explain why but it would probably take me a page or two to condense my thoughts in a coherent manner.
 
This. Most people intelligent enough to make it to med school have also intelligently given serious contemplation to their core values by the time they make it to med school. It's not like they'd never heard of kids having cancer before stepping on the wards 🙄
Unfortunately, I have not found that scenario to be the case. Most people around here have a strange habit of compartmentalizing their education and their beliefs and not intermixing the two at all. It was the same in North Carolina, and I'm pretty comfortable saying it probably applies everywhere in the U.S. Intelligence bafflingly fails to equate to logic more frequently than I would like.
 
What ever happened to the good old days when pre-meds were terrified to start threads in Allo? Did the mods all go soft or something??

I guess you're right. I'll just wait 3 more weeks until I start school to post another thread. So this is what it feels like to be put in my place by the omniscient MS3.

Btw, what happened to the good old days when people actually discussed the topic on hand?

inb4"this is SDN bro"
 
Unfortunately, I have not found that scenario to be the case. Most people around here have a strange habit of compartmentalizing their education and their beliefs and not intermixing the two at all. It was the same in North Carolina, and I'm pretty comfortable saying it probably applies everywhere in the U.S. Intelligence bafflingly fails to equate to logic more frequently than I would like.
True, but I guess what I'm saying mostly is that I don't see it likely that many people will change their beliefs based on med school; if anything, they may strengthen their beliefs. The religious people will take the good parts as "proof" that their God exists, and the atheists/agnostics will take the bad parts as "proof" that a God doesn't exist :shrug:
 
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