How high yield is Goljan audio?

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rodmichael82

rodmichael82

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Some people mentioned that goljan audio is kind of outdated but is it a must for step 1? He seems to cover some extremely high yield material.
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rodmichael82 said:
Some people mentioned that goljan audio is kind of outdated but is it a must for step 1? He seems to cover some extremely high yield material.
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What score are you aiming for?, how much time do you have left?

If your exam is tomorrow you probably don't have time to listen to it.
 
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rodmichael82 said:
Some people mentioned that goljan audio is kind of outdated but is it a must for step 1? He seems to cover some extremely high yield material.
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I think Goljan Audio is a good tool to start getting to you to think the way the USMLE test writers want you to think. That being said, there are newer resources: Pathoma, that has probably replaced Goljan Audio as a go-to resource as I think it was from back in 2001 or 2003.
 
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DermViser said:
I think Goljan Audio is a good tool to start getting to you to think the way the USMLE test writers want you to think. That being said, there are newer resources: Pathoma, that has probably replaced Goljan Audio as a go-to resource as I think it was from back in 2001 or 2003.
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This. Goljan Audio does a good job integrating pathology with biochem, physiology, etc. But Pathoma is ridiculously awesome for straight-up path.
 
DermViser said:
I think Goljan Audio is a good tool to start getting to you to think the way the USMLE test writers want you to think. That being said, there are newer resources: Pathoma, that has probably replaced Goljan Audio as a go-to resource as I think it was from back in 2001 or 2003.
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Your second sig is actually amazing - kudos to that guy
 
Priapism4tooLong said:
Your second sig is actually amazing - kudos to that guy
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I thought it was really telling. Although to be fair I think it could very much be extrapolated from anyone who switches from wanting to do primary care at the beginning of med school to a specialty (Rads, Derm, Ophtho, PM&R, Rad Onc). The system as it is now, purposefully overburdens generalist doctors (ridiculous documentation requirements, serving as a "gatekeeper", etc.). I made it part of my sig bc it truly captures how soul-crushing the medical school experience can be for med students.
 
DermViser said:
I thought it was really telling. Although to be fair I think it could very much be extrapolated from anyone who switches from wanting to do primary care at the beginning of med school to a specialty (Rads, Derm, Ophtho, PM&R, Rad Onc). The system as it is now, purposefully overburdens generalist doctors (ridiculous documentation requirements, serving as a "gatekeeper", etc.). I made it part of my sig bc it truly captures how soul-crushing the medical school experience can be for med students.
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Lol, soul crushing might be a slight exaggeration. But yeah i agree with you for sure.
 
I'm also studying now. I've been listening to goljan audio in my car for the past few weeks and made my way through about 75%. I think it's a good way to integrate things and figure out the big picture but only after you've actually been through everything. I have a few days in my schedule later on (4-5 weeks in) that have me listening to the audios.
I also watched most of pathoma during the school year. I think it's awesome for organizing the material and figuring out what the high yield points are because in lecture, they throw a bunch of stuff at you and you're not sure what's important. I am going to watch them as I do each organ system.

So basically I would recommend starting out with pathoma as you go through each system and saving goljan until later so you can put things together. Quite a few of people from last year's step 1 thread say that one of their biggest regrets was not having time to go through pathoma twice. I haven't taken step 1 yet though so grain of salt and all that.
 
Goljan audio was essential for me. The amount it's "outdated" is way overblown on SDN. Even during shelf exams through 3rd yr, I still used Goljan's memorable rants to pick up some of the harder questions here and there. If nothing else, he helps you develop good instincts so you can "play odds" better. If you can't get through all of his lectures, definitely do nutrition, heme/onc, and MSK/derm.

The fact that Goljan audio is falling out of favor just makes it all the more valuable IMO. You'll be picking up the vitamin E toxicity question that everyone else missed, etc...
 
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I did goljan on my morning runs at 2x speed...for me they were amazing for integrating all that detail from uworld/first aid into actual concepts (though being a dds may have made them more worthwhile for me than you)....which in turn makes it easier to understand/remember the minutia later

I think it's hard to call them high yield though because it's hours and hours and hours and he does have a lot of useless tangents while skipping over chunks of difficult pertinent material

Seems to me if you have time listen to the audio during drives/workouts then go ahead, but if neither of those fit...just do the PDF summary...took me 2 days to get through...you add FA's revised path section and PATHOMA, and the audio itself becomes superfluous
 
The audio transcripts for goljan were great. I also thought he did a great job with nutrition and heme/onc. I interviewed a diabetic patient once who was drinking only milk and orange juice so she came in with a blood glucose of about 1800. Turns out her sense of taste was totally messed up and that's all she drank because even water tasted funny. I looked it up and couldn't figure out what happened to her. But the next day while I was driving, I heard Goljan say that diabetics can pee out too much zinc which can affect their taste buds and that just sold me on his audio. Also, I finally get all the lymphomas/leukemias, I couldn't believe how simple and understandable he made it when my professors completely butchered it. The basic foundation underlying medicine hasn't changed all that much since 2002 so I think it's a very valuable addition to your study.
 
Psai said:
The audio transcripts for goljan were great. I also thought he did a great job with nutrition and heme/onc. I interviewed a diabetic patient once who was drinking only milk and orange juice so she came in with a blood glucose of about 1800. Turns out her sense of taste was totally messed up and that's all she drank because even water tasted funny. I looked it up and couldn't figure out what happened to her. But the next day while I was driving, I heard Goljan say that diabetics can pee out too much zinc which can affect their taste buds and that just sold me on his audio. Also, I finally get all the lymphomas/leukemias, I couldn't believe how simple and understandable he made it when my professors completely butchered it. The basic foundation underlying medicine hasn't changed all that much since 2002 so I think it's a very valuable addition to your study.
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Goljan FTW. The guy truly makes you love pathophysiology and connecting it all together. Had so many "Aha!" moments, it's not even funny.

So many times he'd talk about how the questions would try to differentiate whether you memorized something or not, and then gave an example. The best thing he could do was change the way I was studying and processing the information in my head (away from rote memorization during MS-1/MS-2).
 
Log:
Goljan-vs-Pathoma thread on SDN: #874
Following opinion on how/when to use the resources: #2,340​

Begin Post:

I don't think listening to Goljan <8 weeks out from your exam is HY. I DO think that it should be something you casually listen to in your car or however you traverse to school starting as early as possible in med school. It's 37 audio files that avg ~50 min -- that's alot, especially when you're close to your exam, could be doing UWorld or watching Pathoma (albeit I'm a visual learner more than audio so Pathoma>>Goljan IMO).

Again, I do think that if you start Goljan before dedicated Step studying it is extremely HY and will improve your score. If <8 weeks, too time inefficient given other resources.

Do I think I scored better on Step 1 by using Goljan early on -- absolutely.
Do I think I would have still scored well without ever listening to Goljan -- with Pathoma and UWorld, yes.
Were there any questions I got right only because I listened to Goljan -- yes, 1 single question that I truly didn't see in any other resource.
 
Use Goljian audio if you start studying before your dedicated Step 1 study time. I did it earlier in the spring semester of M2. It was a great starting resource and definitely glad I used it. Don't bother if you have 4-6 weeks before your test. Use your time on pathoma instead.

The only parts that are really outdated are some of the pharm. I tended to space out the pharm parts anyway because I hadn't had pharm in school yet so didn't recognize most of the names. I think almost everything else was still accurate when I used it 2 years ago.
 
DermViser said:
I thought it was really telling. Although to be fair I think it could very much be extrapolated from anyone who switches from wanting to do primary care at the beginning of med school to a specialty (Rads, Derm, Ophtho, PM&R, Rad Onc). The system as it is now, purposefully overburdens generalist doctors (ridiculous documentation requirements, serving as a "gatekeeper", etc.). I made it part of my sig bc it truly captures how soul-crushing the medical school experience can be for med students.
Click to expand...
DermViser said:
Ok, well in that case, for soul-crushing --> OB-Gyn or General Surgery.
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As usual, you exaggerate everything lol. Primary care isn't that bad. The parts that suck are a lack of procedures and low reimbursement. Yes some of the day-to-day outpatient is boring but if you choose to cover your own patients inpatient then it's a lot more interesting and rewarding. And the variety of stuff you see is actually pretty nice. While there is a lot of HTN, DM, HLD, etc, there are still a lot of other things too. It's definitely more rewarding and interesting than derm, WITHOUT ANY DOUBT. The only thing derm has over it is higher reimbursements but a FM lifestyle can just be as just good. I might actually do primary care over derm, MAYBE. The only reason I even question that is because of the reimbursement difference.

And OB-Gyn is actually a good specialty with a great mix of clinic and procedures. The part of that rotation that sucks is dealing with the residents' lack of teaching and bitchy attitudes, although the bitchy attitudes weren't even that bad for male med students. And general surgery overall wasn't bad either. When you actually got to do stuff, it was awesome. The part that sucked was standing there all day retracting, but as a specialty you'd obviously do a lot more and would be pretty interesting. The lifestyle sucks though.
 
rocketbooster said:
It's definitely more rewarding and interesting than derm, WITHOUT ANY DOUBT. The only thing derm has over it is higher reimbursements but a FM lifestyle can just be as just good. I might actually do primary care over derm, MAYBE. The only reason I even question that is because of the reimbursement difference..
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Oh no you didnt... Dermviser's coming for ya
 
rocketbooster said:
As usual, you exaggerate everything lol. Primary care isn't that bad. The parts that suck are a lack of procedures and low reimbursement. Yes some of the day-to-day outpatient is boring but if you choose to cover your own patients inpatient then it's a lot more interesting and rewarding. And the variety of stuff you see is actually pretty nice. While there is a lot of HTN, DM, HLD, etc, there are still a lot of other things too. It's definitely more rewarding and interesting than derm, WITHOUT ANY DOUBT. The only thing derm has over it is higher reimbursements but a FM lifestyle can just be as just good. I might actually do primary care over derm, MAYBE. The only reason I even question that is because of the reimbursement difference.

And OB-Gyn is actually a good specialty with a great mix of clinic and procedures. The part of that rotation that sucks is dealing with the residents' lack of teaching and bitchy attitudes, although the bitchy attitudes weren't even that bad for male med students. And general surgery overall wasn't bad either. When you actually got to do stuff, it was awesome. The part that sucked was standing there all day retracting, but as a specialty you'd obviously do a lot more and would be pretty interesting. The lifestyle sucks though.
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It has NOTHING to do with reimbursement. Yes, we'll see if you'll put your money where your mouth is and go into primary care, instead of hiding behind your "maybe". The fact that you say, "The only reason I even question that is because of the reimbursement difference," shows that obviously just liking a specialty isn't enough for you. That speaks volumes.
 
DermViser said:
It has NOTHING to do with reimbursement. Yes, we'll see if you'll put your money where your mouth is and go into primary care, instead of hiding behind your "maybe". The fact that you say, "The only reason I even question that is because of the reimbursement difference," shows that obviously just liking a specialty isn't enough for you. That speaks volumes.
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All I know is derm is one of the most boring specialties out there. Yes it has good reimbursement but there are a crapload of other specialties that make as much or more than derm that are way more interesting.

Your OB Gyn and general surgery commments just show you're afraid of the OR, where real surgery takes places. Skin biopsies are for pansies.

And based on your sig, you clearly took reimbursement and lifestyle as important reasons for choosing derm.
 
rocketbooster said:
All I know is derm is one of the most boring specialties out there. Yes it has good reimbursement but there are a crapload of other specialties that make as much or more than derm that are way more interesting.

Your OB Gyn and general surgery commments just show you're afraid of the OR, where real surgery takes places. Skin biopsies are for pansies.

And based on your sig, you clearly took reimbursement and lifestyle as important reasons for choosing derm.
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Boring to YOU. As you admit, there are other specialties that reimburse better than Derm, but yet it's easier to get your panties in a bunch about Derm.

As someone who got Honors on both OB-Gyn and Surgery, I'm hardly "afraid" of the OR. The residents notorious on OB-Gyn and Surgery, mistreating medical students, speak for themselves.

And those quotes were from other people on SDN, genius.
 
rocketbooster said:
All I know is derm is one of the most boring specialties out there. Yes it has good reimbursement but there are a crapload of other specialties that make as much or more than derm that are way more interesting.

Your OB Gyn and general surgery commments just show you're afraid of the OR, where real surgery takes places. Skin biopsies are for pansies.

And based on your sig, you clearly took reimbursement and lifestyle as important reasons for choosing derm.
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jackson-eating-popcorn-o.gif
 
DermViser said:
Boring to YOU. As you admit, there are other specialties that reimburse better than Derm, but yet it's easier to get your panties in a bunch about Derm.

As someone who got Honors on both OB-Gyn and Surgery, I'm hardly "afraid" of the OR. The residents notorious on OB-Gyn and Surgery, mistreating medical students, speak for themselves.

And those quotes were from other people on SDN, genius.
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Yea but you clearly endorse them if you put them in your sig.

Yes derm is boring but it does have good reimbursement and probably requires the least amount of work of any other field. It probably still requires less work than even some of the other fields known for great lifestyles.

And I was treated just fine on both OB Gyn and Surgery. I just didn't like the rotations much because there was a lot of wasted time doing nothing as a medical student. Honestly, the "tougher" residents and attendings only preyed on the weak though. They can sense some ppl's lack of backbone and may pick on them a bit unfortunately. That's only the minority of attendings/residents though and only the spineless med students had trouble with it.
 
rocketbooster said:
Yea but you clearly endorse them if you put them in your sig.

Yes derm is boring but it does have good reimbursement and probably requires the least amount of work of any other field. It's probably still requires less work than even some of the other fields known for great lifestyles.

And I was treated just fine on both OB Gyn and Surgery. I just didn't like the rotations much because there was a lot of wasted time doing nothing as a medical student. Honestly, the "tougher" residents and attendings only preyed on the weak though. They can sense some ppl's lack of backbone and may pick on them a bit unfortunately. That's only the minority of attendings/residents though and only the spineless med students had trouble with it.
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Yes, I clearly "endorse" them if they're posted in my sig. Just like Mulberry endorses what Anastomoses says by putting her quote in his sig. 🙄

Like I said, Dermatology is boring TO YOU based on your limited (if any) exposure to the specialty. If you think Derm requires the least amount of work and knowledge base, then you're truly demonstrating your vast ignorance.

That's the difference between those in my specialty (there are many others too - PM&R, Psych, Rads, Peds, Anesthesiology, Ophtho, etc.) and those on OB-Gyn and General Surgery. When med students rotate in our specialty, we as residents don't feel like we have to "prey on the weak" for a self-esteem boost. When medical schools are talking about unprofessional behavior, guess which specialties are the ones they're talking about (Psst...I'll give you a hint, it's not Derm, Rads, Psych, Peds, Anesthesiology, Ophtho, etc.).
 
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DermViser said:
Yes, I clearly "endorse" them if they're posted in my sig. Just like Mulberry endorses what Anastomoses says by putting her quote in his sig. 🙄

Like I said, Dermatology is boring TO YOU based on your limited (if any) exposure to the specialty. If you think Derm requires the least amount of work and knowledge base, then you're truly demonstrating your vast ignorance.

That's the difference between those in my specialty (there are many others too - PM&R, Psych, Rads, Peds, Anesthesiology, Ophtho, etc.) and those on OB-Gyn and General Surgery. When med students rotate in our specialty, we as residents don't feel like we have to "prey on the weak" for a self-esteem boost. When medical schools are talking about unprofessional behavior, guess which specialties are the ones they're talking about (Psst...I'll give you a hint, it's not Derm, Rads, Psych, Peds, Anesthesiology, Ophtho, etc.).
Click to expand...

Derm definitely requires the least amount of work of any specialty once you're in practice. I didn't say it doesn't require a good knowledge base. What I do know is steroids or antibiotics will be the treatment 9/10 times. :roflcopter:

Consult derm? Alright. Wait hours for them to come. What's the plan? Steroids for now until we have a better diagnosis. Days later? Diagnosis is _____, continue steroids or ABX.
 
rocketbooster said:
Derm definitely requires the least amount of work of any specialty once you're in practice. I didn't say it doesn't require a good knowledge base. What I do know is steroids or antibiotics will be the treatment 9/10 times. :roflcopter:
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Depending on where (academics vs. PP) you practice this isn't true. As far as "least amount of work" that applies to ANY specialty in community suburbia. Your statement about treatments 9/10 times, proves your ignorance. But when you get off on something as primitive as "preying on the weak", I'm not surprised.
 
DermViser said:
Thanks for commenting on my sig. I blame you for starting the derailing of the thread. 🙄
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Any post about Step 1, there always has to be a discussion about how elite dermatology is, come on thats like the standard rules on these forums.
 
Priapism4tooLong said:
Any post about Step 1, there always has to be a discussion about how elite dermatology is, come on thats like the standard rules on these forums.
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The original post was about how useful Goljan audio is, not USMLE Step 1 scores.
 
DermViser said:
The original post was about Goljan audio.
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i will show you how these talk progresses

goljan audio/Fa/Uworld/Pathoma -----> step 1 ------> *derail* ------> Someone saying something about derm------> you defending derm
 
Priapism4tooLong said:
i will show you how these talk progresses

goljan audio/Fa/Uworld/Pathoma -----> step 1 ------> *derail* ------> Someone saying something about derm------> you defending derm
Click to expand...

I'm surprised that you haven't worked your perpetual woody into it.
 
Priapism4tooLong said:
i will show you how these talk progresses

goljan audio/Fa/Uworld/Pathoma -----> step 1 ------> *derail* ------> Someone saying something about derm------> you defending derm
Click to expand...

Yes, and in this case *derail* = Priapism4tooLong.
 
Is this a joke? Easiest in suburbia? These are dominated by PP which generally is a worse lifestyle than academics because working more means more money. Academia is easiest bc you have residents to do the grunt work. Exception is like ENT if you head and neck in academics.

Derm is super easy everywhere. Good pay but boring as hell. And it's not even as competitive as ppl think. It has like a 70 something percent match rate. Competitive but not much more than the other competitive fields. So many better options if you have the resume.
 
rocketbooster said:
It's definitely more rewarding and interesting than derm, WITHOUT ANY DOUBT. The only thing derm has over it is higher reimbursements but a FM lifestyle can just be as just good. I might actually do primary care over derm, MAYBE. The only reason I even question that is because of the reimbursement difference.
Click to expand...

It's ok to have your own preferences. It's less ok to think your opinions are facts.
 
Brain Bucket said:
Oh man, that was 1 consonant away from being perfect!
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Make it perfect for me!

rocketbooster said:
Is this a joke? Easiest in suburbia? These are dominated by PP which generally is a worse lifestyle than academics because working more means more money. Academia is easiest bc you have residents to do the grunt work. Exception is like ENT if you head and neck in academics.

Derm is super easy everywhere. Good pay but boring as hell. And it's not even as competitive as ppl think. It has like a 70 something percent match rate. Competitive but not much more than the other competitive fields. So many better options if you have the resume.
Click to expand...

it's good that dermviser is very passive, no way is he going to reply to this.
 
rocketbooster said:
Is this a joke? Easiest in suburbia? These are dominated by PP which generally is a worse lifestyle than academics because working more means more money. Academia is easiest bc you have residents to do the grunt work. Exception is like ENT if you head and neck in academics.

Derm is super easy everywhere. Good pay but boring as hell. And it's not even as competitive as ppl think. It has like a 70 something percent match rate. Competitive but not much more than the other competitive fields. So many better options if you have the resume.
Click to expand...
No one is talking about lifestyle. I'm talking about the pathology you'll be exposed to in affluent suburbia vs. academic medical centers.

You seem to be the one getting quite revved up about it. If derm is not "as competitive as ppl think" and "there are so many better options if you have the resume", then what's the issue?
 
DermViser said:
No one is talking about lifestyle. I'm talking about the pathology you'll be exposed to in affluent suburbia vs. academic medical centers.

You seem to be the one getting quite revved up about it. If derm is not "as competitive as ppl think" and "there are so many better options if you have the resume", then what's the issue?
Click to expand...

I agree you'll see more path there but it's still going to be treated with steroids or abx at the end of the day.

Please give 10 examples not treated this way. Go!

I'll give you 5 minutes because Google is cheating.
 
rocketbooster said:
I agree you'll see more path there but it's still going to be treated with steroids or abx at the end of the day.

Please give 10 examples not treated this way. Go!

I'll give you 5 minutes because Google is cheating.
Click to expand...

Lol this is getting ridiculous.
 
rocketbooster said:
I agree you'll see more path there but it's still going to be treated with steroids or abx at the end of the day.

Please give 10 examples not treated this way. Go!

I'll give you 5 minutes because Google is cheating.
Click to expand...
What are you talking about?
 
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