how important is academic rigor vs. GPA?

[Zephyrus]

hey guys-

med school admissions is largely a numbers-driven process. this much is certain. but there is a difference between a 4.0 earned by a sociology major taking the easiest classes possible and a student who, say, overloads each semester in BME and manages a 3.5+. I would argue that the latter student has achieved more academically even if his/her numbers didn't back it up. Is it more important to have a 4.0, period, or should rigor be factored in? At Duke, most students take four classes, and each is equivalent to four semester hours, regardless of the class. additionally, most premed labs are attached for no additional credit. so chem151L (orgo) with weekly four hour lab is 1 course credit, and so is intro to sociology. kind of f'd up system. overloading when multiple labs or multiple premed classes are involved thus becomes somewhat burdensome. i guess duke isn't really a good example because the adcoms assume that most classes here are reasonably challenging, but in MOST CASES, how important is rigor? it's sad to say it, but i am discouraged from overloading or challenging myself intellectually for fear of my GPA (3.96 as a sophomore) suddenly dive-bombing. i've overloaded a few times, but nothing "crazy." is it worth the risk?

Z

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Zephyrus]

hey guys-

med school admissions is largely a numbers-driven process. this much is certain. but there is a difference between a 4.0 earned by a sociology major taking the easiest classes possible and a student who, say, overloads each semester in BME and manages a 3.5+. I would argue that the latter student has achieved more academically even if his/her numbers didn't back it up. Is it more important to have a 4.0, period, or should rigor be factored in? At Duke, most students take four classes, and each is equivalent to four semester hours, regardless of the class. additionally, most premed labs are attached for no additional credit. so chem151L (orgo) with weekly four hour lab is 1 course credit, and so is intro to sociology. kind of f'd up system. overloading when multiple labs or multiple premed classes are involved thus becomes somewhat burdensome. i guess duke isn't really a good example because the adcoms assume that most classes here are reasonably challenging, but in MOST CASES, how important is rigor? it's sad to say it, but i am discouraged from overloading or challenging myself intellectually for fear of my GPA (3.96 as a sophomore) suddenly dive-bombing. i've overloaded a few times, but nothing "crazy." is it worth the risk?

Z

bump

 

[dr_pepper]

From what I hear, they care very little about the strength of the coarseload. Any pre-med either is a science major, or is fillling the premed requirements in addition to a non-science major, so you can't have an EASY courseload and still be premed. I think it's safe to say that with a 3.96 from Duke, your course selection will never be an issue.

 

[Supernova]

From what I hear - they care very little. There are plenty of people out there with 3.7s; having a 3.96 will set you apart, regardless of your coarseload.

I agree. Differences in difficulties between majors, between classes and between schools are just too complicated to calculate quantitatively.

 

[tinkerbelle]

If you have an awesome gpa from a place like Duke, then it really doesn't matter what you study 🙂 However, I will say, that I really do think having a difficult major from a great school really makes up for having crappy gpa. Or at least it's the only reason i can think of for getting as many acceptances as I have.

- a bme from hopkins with a below average gpa

 

[Zephyrus]

If you have an awesome gpa from a place like Duke, then it really doesn't matter what you study 🙂 However, I will say, that I really do think having a difficult major from a great school really makes up for having crappy gpa. Or at least it's the only reason i can think of for getting as many acceptances as I have.

- a bme from hopkins with a below average gpa

thanks guys. im actually a double major in chemistry and neuroscience so i've been through classes like biostatistics, accelerated general chem (all of genchem in 1 semester), biology, biopsychology, neuroscience, cell biology / genetics, organic, and soon, (gasp) physics, biochem, and p-chem. i was wondering if adcoms would also take a look at my app and say "Hm, he's a tough cookie, but he took it nice and (relatively) slow." I still think it sucks for my engineering buddies who work tirelessly for Bs. god bless being graded on a curve against my arts and sciences brethren.

Z

 

[Shredder]

I don't think they care about majors, only GPA. It's sad that people are restricted in what they want to study by this. Isn't it about time they attached quantitative values to different majors, or at least officially acknowledged the differences? Looking back, I would have considered majoring in business or economics. Not only is the engineering material more difficult, but my classmates are sharper and make the curve harder. Engineers make more money right out of college than most other majors because of their knowledge and skills stemming from academic rigor, but this isn't accounted for in admissions.

 

[45408]

GPA > rigor

Not that the rigor isn't considered, but it's generally more important to have high grades. Might not be fair, but it's often true.

 

[Daichi Katase]

GPA > rigor

high GPA + difficult major + Ivy League Undergrad is the best combination 👍 and

 

[45408]

high GPA + difficult major + Ivy League Undergrad is the best combination 👍 and

Well, obviously. Too bad most of us aren't in an Ivy. I dunno that I could've even gotten in, and I sure don't think the $$$ is worth it for an undergrad degree for me.

 

[Fermata]

Well, obviously. Too bad most of us aren't in an Ivy. I dunno that I could've even gotten in, and I sure don't think the $$$ is worth it for an undergrad degree for me.

And you have to live up north to go to one. 😀

 

[Zephyrus]

Well, I'm actually a senior at Duke, so I've give you (the OP) some school-specific thoughts. Yes, I would PM this, but I stopped my PM account for other reasons.

So, adcoms definitely know that some majors are slack. That said, I know a lot of people applying. The people with the interviews at the top five schools are in relatively hard majors and good records. I'm a BME--lots of BMEs applied to Harvard, I only know of one with an interview there. I also have a friend who was a chem/math double last year with a sort of low GPA and she got no acceptances and only a single waitlist (turned into acceptance over summer). So if you want a safe way into med school, go easy major. If you will only be satisfied with the Harvards and Hopkins, work hard in a difficult major. Good luck!

thanks for the info. my gf is in chi o btw

 

[shawty ya'head]

i would def say that GPA > rigor.

only because some places will have cut-offs and they won't even look at your ish unless you pass their screen.

for instance, i know for sure that NW has a 3.6/32 cut-off unless you're somehow "special" (affiliated, parents went there or some other crap).

and in my case, i had a 3.59/34 and got rejected prior to an interview.

they didn't bother than i went to a relatively challenging undergrad (penn) and dual majored in engineering with 2 minors and still finished pre-med.

best o luck

 

[BOHICA-FIGMO]

i would def say that GPA > rigor.

only because some places will have cut-offs and they won't even look at your ish unless you pass their screen.

for instance, i know for sure that NW has a 3.6/32 cut-off unless you're somehow "special" (affiliated, parents went there or some other crap).

and in my case, i had a 3.59/34 and got rejected prior to an interview.

they didn't bother than i went to a relatively challenging undergrad (penn) and dual majored in engineering with 2 minors and still finished pre-med.

best o luck

I second this sentiment. I went to the U.S. Air Force Academy and averaged 20 hours per semester over 8 semesters (low of 18, high of 24) and wound up with a 3.2 and 30-P on the MCAT. If I had it all to do over, I would have gone to Grade Inflation State University, taken 12 hours per semester and been in med school 10 years ago. I don't want to start a flame, but graduating from Penn or West Point should get more consideration than someone who graduated from Mega State University.

 

[DrDarwin]

GPA > rigor

Not that the rigor isn't considered, but it's generally more important to have high grades. Might not be fair, but it's often true.

TheProwler has got it right. There is a reason medical schools advise applicants to major in an area of interest; namely, because studying a subject of interest will increase the likelihood of obtaining a good GPA, regardless of the subject's rigor. While a subject's inherent rigor may be somewhat important, I would venture to say that the rigorousness of an undergraduate institution as a whole is more important. These of course are not always fair assumptions, but the world isn't fair either.

Also, the hyper-competitive schools are most interested in the degree to which an applicant has (1) excelled in her area of study and (2) maximally utilized the resources at her disposal, not whether she majored in BME or philosophy. If it were otherwise, graduates of small liberal arts colleges (where engineering departments are virtually nonexistant) would never be accepted to top schools.

 

[45408]

Also, remember that while taking hard classes and getting B's can hurt you, so can taking lots of fluff and getting only A's. A lot of schools say that they like seeing courses in biochemistry, statistics, calculus, composition, etc. A whole lot of basket weaving and intro to leisure won't fly either.