how important is AOA status?

[kat82]

hey everyone! just wondering how important AOA status was for matching into an EM residency? is it something important in academic programs? or is it a field where its not as much of a big deal? i guess i barely even understand what AOA is or what the big deal is, but i know im not AOA....


🙂

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[crewmaster1]

It depends...
Like everything in you application it is all combined to make a picture. I would say AOA is probably less important in EM than in some other areas, but it still means something. You won't match at Northwestern! I had a very strong application but wasn't AOA. (I think because I really pissed off a person in my class who got 3rd year AOA and then was a major part of picking 4th year AOA!). But I was asked several times why, with my strong app, wasn't I AOA....so, you may want to have some sort of explanation. I matched at U. Cincinnati, so I did alright in the end.

 

[ditch doctor]

This answers most of the "how important is <blank>"
It's from '99, but I can't immagine much has changed.

http://www.saem.org/download/54_60.pdf

 

[Dr. Will]

It has advantages/perks that will be present throughout your career. For EM, however, it may make it easier to get interviews at certain programs, but is not as important for the actual match. Your entire application, especially your interview and fit will be much more important at that point than AOA status.

 

[bulgethetwine]

hey everyone! just wondering how important AOA status was for matching into an EM residency? is it something important in academic programs? or is it a field where its not as much of a big deal? i guess i barely even understand what AOA is or what the big deal is, but i know im not AOA....


🙂

It's not.

I can tell you in good faith that never:

1) has a person been denied an interview at my location because they weren't AOA; and

2) has a person received an interview because they were AOA.

There are the things that matter most:

1) Letters from EM attendings
2) Demonstrated interest in EM - rotations, EM student groups, etc.
3) Performance/marks in EM rotations
4) Board scores
5) Overall med school performance

Most places, I think, tend to view #4 and #5 as not so much a continuum but rather as a minimum standard that must be met. For instance, as long as you're in good standing at your med school (never failed classes, never on academic probation, etc.) and as long as your board scores are solid (no need to be super high, just be comfortably in the 200s and don't fail it) then we focus in on #1 - #3. It doesn't so much matter if your board score is 260 and you're AOA. Honestly, you are no farther ahead then the guy/gal who got 210 and was middle of the pack. The point is, you've met our "academic" standard and now we want to hone in on what really matters (#1 - #3).

I would also add that even if you DID violate one of the things I mentioned for #4 and #5, we still review your app, and if your #1 - #3 are super strong, it can make your app and we'll likely still want to interview you. But if your #1-#3 above are weak, I don't care how high your board scores are and if you're AOA.

Nearly everyone has the capacity to be a resident. We want residents that we want to work with for 4 years.


Good luck

 

[joeG]

If it is important to an institution, then the institution should not be important to you.

 

[Hard24Get]

hey everyone! just wondering how important AOA status was for matching into an EM residency? is it something important in academic programs? or is it a field where its not as much of a big deal? i guess i barely even understand what AOA is or what the big deal is, but i know im not AOA....


🙂

www.nrmp.org/matchoutcomes.pdf

Conclusions from the above data:
- Only a little over 10% of applicants who match in EM are AOA
- You are more likely to match if you are AOA than not AOA
- AOA status does not guarantee matching

 

[gutonc]

Looking at the big picture, AOA status can be considered a surrogate marker for overall excellent performance in med school (usually the 3rd year unless you get junior AOA). In and of itself I don't think it makes much of a difference in most specialties other than someone who is AOA also had great clerkship grades and impressed some faculty members. It's what gets one AOA status that matters, not the 3 letters themselves. The other thing to consider wrt AOA is that the number of people elected to any given AOA chapter in a given year is either a fixed # or % of the current class (mine was 5% I think). As a result, there are plenty of people w/ excellent grades and evals who won't get AOA simply because they missed some sort of cut-off. I was elected to AOA but there were plenty of people in my class who were way smarter than me (and matched in more competitive specialties than I chose to apply to) who didn't get AOA.

Bottom line, if you get it, great, if not, you'll probably be just fine assuming you're not going for integrated plastics or neurosurgery (which, since you're posting on the EM board seems unlikely).

 

[aliraja]

It depends...
Like everything in you application it is all combined to make a picture. I would say AOA is probably less important in EM than in some other areas, but it still means something. You won't match at Northwestern! I had a very strong application but wasn't AOA. (I think because I really pissed off a person in my class who got 3rd year AOA and then was a major part of picking 4th year AOA!). But I was asked several times why, with my strong app, wasn't I AOA....so, you may want to have some sort of explanation. I matched at U. Cincinnati, so I did alright in the end.

Oh wow. Man, this is going to be a little awkward.

Uh... we kinda thought that you were AOA. Honest mistake, really. You had AMA listed on your application and we were speedreading.

I'm not sure how to break this to you since it's a little late in the game, but we can't really have you in the program anymore. It's only September though... I'm sure that you can find a spot somewhere else. One of those non-AOA residencies can probably still squeeze you in (try Denver). Good luck!

 

[Dr. Will]

Oh wow. Man, this is going to be a little awkward.

Uh... we kinda thought that you were AOA. Honest mistake, really. You had AMA listed on your application and we were speedreading.

I'm not sure how to break this to you since it's a little late in the game, but we can't really have you in the program anymore. It's only September though... I'm sure that you can find a spot somewhere else. One of those non-AOA residencies can probably still squeeze you in (try Denver). Good luck!

That's why they wouldn't let him off his MICU call to show up to the intern welcome dinner.