How important is AOA?

[karenwkyk]

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Hi Guys,

How important to get AOA membership? I really want to do my residency in the top school (like Havard, stanford....) in a pretty competitive field (e.g radiology). Can i still get match there without AOA? I got 257 on step 1, honors 90% of the classes in year 1 and 2 , and get either honors or high pass in the third year so far, couple publications from NIH before and during medical school.
I just don't think that i will earn a AOA, because my school require people to get all honors in third year in order to get AOA, so is anyone get match at top 10 schools without AOA? 😕

 

[Biscuit799]

check out http://www.aamc.org/programs/cim/chartingoutcomes.pdf

I don't think it's so much a negative if you don't have it as a positive if you do. Lots of people aren't in AOA and match into competitive specialties, but people who are in it generally have better match rates. Ergo, I wouldn't say it's terribly important to have, but nice if you do.

 

[AmoryBlaine]

Yeah, it's more a feather in the cap than anything. It's not like people will be saying, "oh, she didn't get AOA..."

It is pretty awesome if you can land it, but to really go for it you can't do much slacking - even on silly clinical rotations. Our school just passed it out and alot of people were looking at the list of inductees and saying, "wtf?"

 

[Law2Doc]

Hi Guys,

How important to get AOA membership? I really want to do my residency in the top school (like Havard, standford....) in a pretty competitive field (e.g radiology). Can i still get match there without AOA? I got 257 on step 1, honors 90% of the classes in year 1 and 2 , and get either honors or high pass in the third year so far, couple publications from NIH before and during medical school.
I just don't think that i will earn a AOA, because my school require people to get all honors in third year in order to get AOA, so is anyone get match at top 10 schools without AOA? 😕

Well, you aren't getting into Stanford if you spell it wrong on the application... Bear in mind that the top schools and fields don't move independently -- there are top programs for eg radiology and they may not be exact the same as the top medical schools per US News. You have to talk to folks in your desired target specialty and see which programs are good versus malignant. (Also note that programs are usually hospital dependant not school dependant, so you would be looking to match to MGH, not Harvard (which has several other hospital affiliations)).
At any rate, as folks above have said, AOA looks great, but most people who match into the competitive specialties will not have it.

 

[treasurefull2]

Hi Guys,

How important to get AOA membership? I really want to do my residency in the top school (like Havard, stanford....) in a pretty competitive field (e.g radiology). Can i still get match there without AOA? I got 257 on step 1, honors 90% of the classes in year 1 and 2 , and get either honors or high pass in the third year so far, couple publications from NIH before and during medical school.
I just don't think that i will earn a AOA, because my school require people to get all honors in third year in order to get AOA, so is anyone get match at top 10 schools without AOA? 😕

Actually, for top programs, where you went to med school is quite a big factor in their selection.

 

[njbmd]

Hi Guys,

How important to get AOA membership? I really want to do my residency in the top school (like Havard, stanford....) in a pretty competitive field (e.g radiology). Can i still get match there without AOA? I got 257 on step 1, honors 90% of the classes in year 1 and 2 , and get either honors or high pass in the third year so far, couple publications from NIH before and during medical school.
I just don't think that i will earn a AOA, because my school require people to get all honors in third year in order to get AOA, so is anyone get match at top 10 schools without AOA? 😕

AOA (Alpha Omega Alpha) is nice to have but keep in mind that many medical schools do not have chapters of AOA. The criteria for induction vary from chapter to chapter. Stanford is one of those medical schools that does not have a chapter of AOA (it may have recently established one but didn't have one when I was in medical school).

Folks who are likely to make AOA are generally notified by their inducting chapter. Again, criteria for induction are established by each chapter. It may be scholarship or scholarship and leadership. You may also be inducted into AOA as a resident/faculty member if the inducting chapter wants you.

AOA is not a pre-requisite for matching at any program as again, many schools don't even have a chapter of AOA. Chill out and have a strong third year. Get good letters of recommendation and apply to the programs that interest you.

 

[alamo4]

I really want to do my residency in the top school (like Havard, stanford....) in a pretty competitive field (e.g radiology). Can i still get match there without AOA?

As noted, it's interestingly ironic that Harvard and Stanford are two schools that do not have have AOA chapters:

http://www.alphaomegaalpha.org/chapters.html

However, many of the attendings were AOA at their respective schools, and think it's a big deal.

 

[Tiburon]

Hi Guys,

How important to get AOA membership? I really want to do my residency in the top school (like Havard, stanford....) in a pretty competitive field (e.g radiology). Can i still get match there without AOA? I got 257 on step 1, honors 90% of the classes in year 1 and 2 , and get either honors or high pass in the third year so far, couple publications from NIH before and during medical school.
I just don't think that i will earn a AOA, because my school require people to get all honors in third year in order to get AOA, so is anyone get match at top 10 schools without AOA? 😕

I know plenty of people that match at top schools without AOA. Like has been said, it helps to have it, but doesn't hurt you much at all if you don't.

 

[JackShephard MD]

5 year bump!

 

[Dissected]

5 year bump!

👍

 

[duckie99]

I know plenty of people that match at top schools without AOA. Like has been said, it helps to have it, but doesn't hurt you much at all if you don't.

True. But I really think it is school dependent and hopefully programs who know your school understand how AOA is done there. For example my school does not tell us how they decide but I heard through the grapevine they just let upper level AOA pick which obviously is totally lame. I think only 5% of my class is junior AOA (which is what matters to residency programs). Some schools just automatically put into AOA top 15% or so academically.

However I also think some programs want their residents in AOA just to say "[some high percentage] of our residents are AOA". So depending on how competitive a field and program you are applying for, AOA will have varying importance.

For peds, IM, etc AOA means less. Even top programs in IM, for example, have upwards of 40-50 residency spots and with only about 15% of applicants going IM having AOA you will still have a good shot w/out it. However the same cannot be said for neurosug, derm, ENT, ortho, etc because programs often have much smaller number of residents. And so those top programs may likely want that AOA name. But a person can still match w/out it, just perhaps not at the top places.


and yeah I understand this thread is from 2007 but there are originally a small number of posts and the topic is still relevant.

 

[username456789]

True. But I really think it is school dependent and hopefully programs who know your school understand how AOA is done there. For example my school does not tell us how they decide but I heard through the grapevine they just let upper level AOA pick which obviously is totally lame. I think only 5% of my class is junior AOA (which is what matters to residency programs).

That's really not very true.

 

[duckie99]

That's really not very true.

I will clarify by saying junior AOA > senior AOA when it comes to applying because residency programs may not see that you were inducted into AOA your senior year during the application/interview season (though I'm sure the timing is school dependent). But when you're a resident AOA is AOA no matter when you were inducted.

 

[drizzt3117]

I will clarify by saying junior AOA > senior AOA when it comes to applying because residency programs may not see that you were inducted into AOA your senior year during the application/interview season (though I'm sure the timing is school dependent). But when you're a resident AOA is AOA no matter when you were inducted.

Residencies, however, will see the clinical honors that got you the AOA. It's not the AOA that's important, it's how you got it. Some schools give junior AOA for step 1 alone. Who would you take, guy from uic with 260 step (junior AOA) and a mix of p/hp or a guy with 260 and 5/6 honors and 1 hp who just missed AOA?

 

[Tomodachi123]

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[ijn]

Residencies, however, will see the clinical honors that got you the AOA. It's not the AOA that's important, it's how you got it. Some schools give junior AOA for step 1 alone. Who would you take, guy from uic with 260 step (junior AOA) and a mix of p/hp or a guy with 260 and 5/6 honors and 1 hp who just missed AOA?

How hard was it to get honors at school A vs B? Do residencies even care to look at that? I doubt they have any sort of systematic adjustment for schools who toss out 35% honors in everything versus ones that give it to 10%.

 

[Lolscan]

How hard was it to get honors at school A vs B? Do residencies even care to look at that? I doubt they have any sort of systematic adjustment for schools who toss out 35% honors in everything versus ones that give it to 10%.

It's not necessarily "hard" but more of a crap shoot. If the guy you work with doesn't like the way you wear your hair, you will never get honors. Thats it....

 

[MCsoundt]

When you guys speak of AOA are you talking about 3rd year AOA? Sorry if this is a dumb question, but why is 3rd year AOA so much more valued than 4th year AOA? As far as I can tell they are the same thing. So why do schools allow <10% of students in 3rd year and then another 15-20% in 4th year? Makes little sense to me

 

[eeyoreish]

When you guys speak of AOA are you talking about 3rd year AOA? Sorry if this is a dumb question, but why is 3rd year AOA so much more valued than 4th year AOA? As far as I can tell they are the same thing. So why do schools allow <10% of students in 3rd year and then another 15-20% in 4th year? Makes little sense to me

Well I mean you just pointed out why 3rd year AOA is better... they let in less people. More selective = more prestigious duh.

As to the thread topic where you went to school > AOA as far as I can tell. The whole process seems like a crapshoot though just hope for the best imo and apply to a range of programs from competitive to less-so.

 

[MCsoundt]

Well I mean you just pointed out why 3rd year AOA is better... they let in less people. More selective = more prestigious duh.

ha, well that much is obvious. I guess I just didn't understand why people make such a big deal about being AOA 3rd year vs. 4th year. Ultimately it's all just AOA. 10 years down the line you're just going to say you were AOA, not "I was AOA but but but I got in as an MS3, I'm a G!"