Hello all, so I've been reading a few posts that recommend learning Spanish before med school. Is this something I should seriously consider? How useful would it be to have a cursory understanding of the language? As of now, I pretty much know zero spanish and have a couple months without any major obligations before the start of school. Also, if there is anyone who actually did this, what program/software did you use?
How important is learning Spanish?
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I don't know where you're going to school, but as a student in louisiana it was the best possible investment in my education. The population is 10% ESL and there arr basically no translators. Even a basic understanding would help a lot.
I used www.ecela.com, which I highly recommend if you can afford it. If you can't Rosetta stone is good too, especially if you also do some reading in Spanish (Hary Potter worked well for me).
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If you live in Spain or Central/South America I'd recommend you learn Spanish, well, pronto. If you're here in the States, I'd recommend you learn to speak proper English without all the Likes, Y'knows, Whatevers, and other annoying filler words.
Seriously, do not waste your time. There are immigrants in this country from around the globe and it is not your responsibility to learn their languages - rather it is their responsibility to learn their adopting country's. Hospitals employ translation services, and push-comes-to-shove you can use the global sign language ;-)
Seriously, do not waste your time. There are immigrants in this country from around the globe and it is not your responsibility to learn their languages - rather it is their responsibility to learn their adopting country's. Hospitals employ translation services, and push-comes-to-shove you can use the global sign language ;-)
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Disregard this. I second perrotfish.
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in SoCal, it's invaluable.
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Pushing right past the right wing nonsense here, I will just say that you will, like it or not, get a lot of patients who don't really speak English and when you can't speak their language it will cost you your time. Your duty as a physician aside, I promise you that it will take three times as long to wait for a translator,, or take an H&P via their 10 year old, or to try and figure out the right sign language gesture for 'pulmonary hypertension'. Even if you won't do it for their life, do it for your lunch hour.
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^ Don't listen to this idiot. No one stands around waiting for the world to adapt to them.
Being multilingual is invaluable. I speak Chinese, Spanish, and English and they've all been utilized at one point or another. I went to the same program as Perrotfish for Spanish (at a different time). It's expensive but I also recommend it if you can swing it. Otherwise I recommend Pimsleur.
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When's a good time for such a program, apart from ms1 summer? I've always wanted to go but don't know when to fit it in.
If you are going to school where I am, you'd better learn it fast, or just accept that you won't understand a good portion of conversations that go on around you.
I came in with no Spanish, I'm starting wards with about 5% Spanish capacity, it BLOWS like none other. Haven't exactly had time to pick up a second language on top of billions of pages and hours of medical stuffff.
Good luck.
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I went MS1 summer but if I couldn't, I would've gone tail-end of fourth year.
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Whoa there...please don't disparage an opinion if you cannot argue against it. No disrespect, please.
I understand your argument that knowing another language might save time (for the record, I'm fluent in one foreign language and highly conversational in two others). However, when the need for a translator arises, you can see other patients while waiting for the translator before seeing that patient. There are ways of saving time.
In case of trauma or acute illness, one does not need more than the basic sign language for a doctor and patient to have some communication. I've been a hospital (in a different country) where not only did the doctor and patient speak different languages, but their nations were mortal enemies and the doctor was able to communicate with the patient as needed.
Here's an idea: In my urban area, there are significant numbers of Spanish-speakers, Russian-speakers, Far-East Asian-speakers and Italian-speakers. You can't speak them all...my suggestion is that each of us have a basic knowledge of the language of our ancestors who came to the U.S. For example, if you're from a Chinese background, have a conversational knowledge in Chinese etc. etc.. Even a true-blood American whose ancestors fought during WWI (just an example) can learn a language of a different culture in which they've had some interest. With the ethnic variability in many areas, we'd have many bases/languages covered...
Ok, that was quite off-topic, I'll stop talking.
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Or....you can learn Spanish in addition to whatever language cause it's useful and will most likely come in handy pretty much anywhere you end up practicing.
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If you could offer me a 25th hour of the day exclusively for learning Spanish, I'll take it. Otherwise, I'd rather spend whatever free time I have doing...well, more important things. ;-D
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You cannot possibly be serious. I know the hospital I'm at claims to have a translation service but I've never seen it.
I don't know what teaching hospital you rotate at but my state is like 60% hispanic and our patient population is easily 80%. You can easily miss a diagnosis if you aren't familiar with slang, too. And while everybody hates medical students, everybody loves a free translator who frees up a nurse to do her real job.
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If you've got the time to pick it up, it will be helpful. I kind of wish I would have, but while OnDemond got flamed for the "outlandish" idea that people should learn the language of the people where they now live, his point about translators is well taken. I've gotten by with translators just fine, at least for spanish and other major national languages. Occasionally you'll fun into someone speaking an indigenous language and no one will be able to translate.
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I dont really care what you do or what you have time for but for the majority of the non-Limbaugh crowd, it'll come in handy and is a good investment.
It's already extremely valuable now and the amount of Spanish speakers in this country is only going to increase - and increase quite a bit.
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Medicine:
There are no translators in poor public hospitals, as far as I can tell. There are barely any in more affluent hospitals. In some areas theres a list of which nurses speak what, which is great in Miami where every third nurse is the son or daughter of Cuban immigrants, but where I'm at in Louisiana the nurses only speak English, so that's no help at all.
Now we do get a decent number of patients who speak languages other than Spanish. What do I do with them? Pretty much what I described earlier: I use their relatives, I use sign language, I google translate and then hand them the sheet. My last H&P with a vietnamese patient took f-ing forever, had to be done through an incredibly shy 12 year old girl, and was missing a lot of potentially important information (which, if I was a physician, I would be liable for). Oh, and better yet, it was an Gyn patient, so I had to triage and decide which questions were worth tormenting my poor translator with. "Any vaginal bleeding?" fine. "How many sexual partners in the last year?" Skip. Hope she doesn't swing. If there's a way to save time here I'd love to know it.
Now you're right that there are many languages you could learn. However the fact is I run into Spanish more than all the other languages combined, and as a multinational Romantic language with some germanic influence it's one of the easiest languages to learn. So, since you can't learn all languages, I think this is a good choice.
Politics:
As for the suggestion that everyone should just learn english, I think most people try. Almost everyone can speak a few basic words and could probably understand directions to the bathroom if I said them slowly and loudly. Most are a little better than that. However the issue is that most people are (by definition) of average intelligence and if they're immigrants they're also normally of below average income while working more than average hours. Meanwhile learning a language takes time, money, and intelligence. I learned Spanish by spending 5 months in a full time language academy with a class size of 3 in South America. That was the only thing that could get me fluent, and I'm a f-ing fantastic student. Top 1% of the nation.
BTW, unless you're Enlgish/Irish/Scottish odds are your ancestors had them same problem. My Polish Great Grandmother never learned English, her kids just had to translate for her everywhere. There wasn't a time when new Americans all came over knowing how to speak English.
Finally, I'm just going to say, I really like my immigrant patients. On average I like them more than my native born American patients. They seem much less likely to play Gameboy while I'm in the room, angrily demand vicodin, or involve me in workers comp claims. They are much more likely to listen politely, follow medical advice, and ask what they can do to get back to work. There are exceptions to every rule but in general I really have a hard time feeling angry at this group of patients for not speaking English, or to not want to help them.
Leaving aside the fact that one of your more imortant things is apparently arguing with an unknown Louisiana medical student on the Internet, this thread is about someone asking what he can do in the downtime before medical school starts. That's two full months of 25th hours.
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I think it depends on where you're located, but it can only help. I'll be going to school in Miami, and my school offers Spanish classes if we want to take them. I'm actually quite excited about this. I love learning languages, and I've been putting off Spanish for too long. 😀
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All right, now that I've created a distraction, how about returning to the main topic, which was asking for advice on how to best learn the language of your future.
Thanks guys for all your constructive and informative comments. Please keep future comments respectful.
Thanks guys for all your constructive and informative comments. Please keep future comments respectful.
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You guys don't have the blue translation phones where you're at?
Quite frankly, even if you know some spanish, I wouldn't be willing to ride my medical license on things like consents etc. The patient needs very clear explanations from people trained in medical interpretations. We have some people in house, but we also have the blue phone translation service 24/7.
Quite frankly, even if you know some spanish, I wouldn't be willing to ride my medical license on things like consents etc. The patient needs very clear explanations from people trained in medical interpretations. We have some people in house, but we also have the blue phone translation service 24/7.
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Yeah, and if you made a fatal or destructive misinterpretation while relying on your Spanish skills, you're about to meet Senior Lawyer.
We have the translation phone system, and it costs the hospital a fortune...not to mention that it's a pain in the neck, and really awkward, considering you're in the room with the patient communicating on the phone via a translator.
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Dude. Put it on speakerphone. It works well like that and makes things far less awkward.
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I personally used it only once, never done it before, I guess I was so nervous that didn't think of using speakerphone...😀
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I'm not arguing against it. I flat out disagree with it and find your point of view offensively ignorant and not at all pertaining to the realities of the world.
If someone doesn't want to learn Spanish that's fine, but I won't be the one stuck with my dick in my hand when the resident/attending is conversing with a Spanish speaking patient.
And who are you, the ****ing moderator?
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I've rotated through 5 hospital systems in 3rd year: a small Navy hospital, a rural louisiana hospital, an urban academic hospital, an urban private hospital, and an urban Charity hospital. One of them had phones, one had a limited on site translation (I think), and 3 had nothing. The phones are great and if you have them, use them. However if you get stuck with nothing then your Spanish is probably going to better than a 10year old translator.
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Perrotfish and I are rarely on the same page, but on this point I agree with him 100%.
Your patients often will speak foreign languages, with spanish being the most prevalent foreign language spoken in the US. While it would be nice if everyone who lived in the US spoke a common language, the reality is that there are large pockets of the country where you can get by without ever learning english, and so many people don't. You can take driving tests in spanish, you can file your taxes in spanish, there are spanish voting instructions. And yes, you can get yourself admitted to the hospital and have your bills covered by Medicare without knowing english.
As a med student, you can curry favor with the attendings and residents if you can act as the team's interpreter. I've seen very lackluster 3rd year med students become the attendings favorite on a rotation because they could jump in and conduct the interview on rounds. The attending couldn't care less that this dude barely passed biochem -- he was the star of the team because he could ask the patient to describe his pain.
And I agree, when you have to find or wait for an interpreter, that's time out of your schedule as a resident. Time is sleep or studying or getting out of the hospital before the duty hours max out. Which is huge.
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Honestly, it's pretty rare that your english speaking patients will understand what they are consenting to most of the time. There's a limit to how much you can baby down some concepts in any language.
I'm about 90+% conversant in spanish, it completely depends on which country the patient's from. So I get both sides of the spectrum, translator needed for some intractions, myself needed for others. When I stick to a translator, it's workable, but cumbersome, and a 5-10 minute patient interaction becomes a 20-30 minute interaction. doesn't seem like much, but when you're supposed to be averaging over 2 patients an hour in a busy ER, avoiding the translator is huge!
In addition, family translators can and do make major mistakes in their translations. even having a 50% conversational ability will save your ass (and the patient's) when you can listen in on the family translation) and interject. Knowing spanish is not a requisite to practice medicine, but it can be invaluable, even with the patient who can speak somewhat decent english.
Someone did make a point that unless you're extremely confident in your spanish, you shouldn't be having people sign any consent you cannot fully explain and field questions for. Legally speaking I would say this is very true. But understanding both sides of an official translation will save time and let you field questions before they arise.
In addition, family translators can and do make major mistakes in their translations. even having a 50% conversational ability will save your ass (and the patient's) when you can listen in on the family translation) and interject. Knowing spanish is not a requisite to practice medicine, but it can be invaluable, even with the patient who can speak somewhat decent english.
Someone did make a point that unless you're extremely confident in your spanish, you shouldn't be having people sign any consent you cannot fully explain and field questions for. Legally speaking I would say this is very true. But understanding both sides of an official translation will save time and let you field questions before they arise.
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True, but many refuse to do just that and your views are considered xenophobic to many people who don't understand that this is the view held by every single non-English speaking society outside the USA for immigrants to their country. Hardly right-wing non-sense.
I'm highly conversational in Spanish but I def plan to become fluent if I can make time for it through a program such as the one that parrotfish linked. I think it will be helpful in the future for sure.
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True, but many refuse to do just that and your views are considered xenophobic to many people who don't understand that this is the view held by every single non-English speaking society outside the USA for immigrants to their country. Hardly right-wing non-sense.
It can be both xenophobic and a common view.
Thank you to everyone for your responses; I will certainly look into some of the recommendations posted. Also, for the record, I will be going to school in Philadelphia.
EDIT: I know perrotfish mentioned rosetta stone. Has anyone here actually ever used this program for any language? It is almost impossible to find accurate reviews of this product as every review is either sponsored by rosetta stone (and praising it) or from a rival program (and bashing it).
EDIT: I know perrotfish mentioned rosetta stone. Has anyone here actually ever used this program for any language? It is almost impossible to find accurate reviews of this product as every review is either sponsored by rosetta stone (and praising it) or from a rival program (and bashing it).
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meh, I found the only rotation where not knowing Spanish was a hindrance was ob/gyn as the census was 95% Hispanic. At the beginning of the rotation, we were given a phrase sheet for the ob/gyn hx that had all the questions you would possibly need to know. All of them are phrased such that you only need to understand numbers, mucho/poquito, si/no.
By the end of the rotation, I could get a complete history without help from a translator. I speak great vagina Spanish now.
By the end of the rotation, I could get a complete history without help from a translator. I speak great vagina Spanish now.
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Ditto EABlackwell. I think it's largely location-specific, but Spanish has got to be the most useful second language to English-speaking Americans most of the time. Personally, if I were to end up as an attending at the hospital where I worked for the last few years, I would be much better served learning Russian, as there are a lot of patients that speak it with little to no English, but I know that's far from always the case.
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I'm currently using Rosetta Stone. One of my classmates was going into ob/gyn and bought Totale with all 5 levels. I borrowed it form here. Now she's going into anesthesia and hasnt asked for it back 😉
I like it a lot. I'm picking up a lot of the language just from this. I'm also starting to take advantage of other resources like the spanish language movies on Netflix. Also if you go to meetup.com you should be able to find a spanish language group in your city. The one in my city meets once a week. I haven't been to any of their get togethers but I plan to start going.
That was pretty much my experience 🙂 And since I'm going into ob/gyn, I feel the push to learn more.meh, I found the only rotation where not knowing Spanish was a hindrance was ob/gyn as the census was 95% Hispanic. At the beginning of the rotation, we were given a phrase sheet for the ob/gyn hx that had all the questions you would possibly need to know. All of them are phrased such that you only need to understand numbers, mucho/poquito, si/no.
By the end of the rotation, I could get a complete history without help from a translator. I speak great vagina Spanish now.
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If you plan on self-studying and want a great free resource go here:
http://fsi-language-courses.org/Content.php
These are the language courses the government uses to train their foreign service agents. Some of the materials are dated but they are extremely thorough and assuming you put in the effort the Spanish course should make you pretty fluent with a vocab of several thousand words. Their study schedule comes out to ~6 hours a day for 6 months but obviously no one has that much time per day and others can learn more quickly. They have a bunch of other courses too, it's an invaluable resource! Please don't pay $400+ dollars for Rosetta stone, it's one of the most over-priced pieces of software relative to the benefit you get out.
http://fsi-language-courses.org/Content.php
These are the language courses the government uses to train their foreign service agents. Some of the materials are dated but they are extremely thorough and assuming you put in the effort the Spanish course should make you pretty fluent with a vocab of several thousand words. Their study schedule comes out to ~6 hours a day for 6 months but obviously no one has that much time per day and others can learn more quickly. They have a bunch of other courses too, it's an invaluable resource! Please don't pay $400+ dollars for Rosetta stone, it's one of the most over-priced pieces of software relative to the benefit you get out.
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My opinion has changed. I don't understand how people can live in this country without learning at least a little of the language. I'm embarrassed for them, especially as the son of poor immigrants from Asia. 30 years later, my mother is fluent in English... Hell, my father spent the 1st 15 years of his life here working in an Asian restaurant speaking his native language, and even he can speak fluid broken english with his docs.
Yesterday one guy was so pissed off that there weren't any Spanish speaking doctors that he threw his bracelet at the secretary and stormed out, threatening to sue for discrimination. A ****ing Medicaid patient. You're in America, you chump, you have to meet me halfway. I spent six weeks in South America and speak basic conversational Spanish, and you've been here for ten years and don't know any English besides "you know Spaneesh?"
That guy needs to do the world a favor and shoot himself.
Yesterday one guy was so pissed off that there weren't any Spanish speaking doctors that he threw his bracelet at the secretary and stormed out, threatening to sue for discrimination. A ****ing Medicaid patient. You're in America, you chump, you have to meet me halfway. I spent six weeks in South America and speak basic conversational Spanish, and you've been here for ten years and don't know any English besides "you know Spaneesh?"
That guy needs to do the world a favor and shoot himself.
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Learn a few words/phrases. Other than that I wouldn't waste my time. It's extremely valuable if you're very proficient or fluent, but barring that you'll really want a translator or native speaker present. I doubt you have the time in med school to commit to learning the language enough to be useful. Getting a medical history from a patient can be complicated and nuanced, and unless you're really comfortable in navigating those complexities in a foreign language, I don't really see the utility at this point in the game.
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This is my exact reason for not worrying about it. At this point, with my current Spanish level and lack of much natural ability to pick up languages I'm never going to be at a level where I'm the best choice to be translator. So I think knowing a bit of conversational Spanish and learning medically-useful phrases is the best use of time, leaving the more complicated stuff for someone else and removing any possibility of me messing up anything serious.
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I don't think it's awkward. Then again, it's pretty much the norm for Spanish patients at the hospital I'm in. Where we talk via phone for the time then jump on the table for the physical.
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I see a lot of 'don't waste your time'. If you think it's a waste of time to learn another language, sure, don't do it. Everyone will get by. If, however, you find language interesting, and enjoy learning languages and being able to communicate with different peopole, do it. You don't have to be fluent, just spend 20 minutes a couple times a week. Since you're asking the question as if it's a chore, though, you probably shouldn't waste your time.
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Dont waste your time unless you genuinely have an interest in it.
It's cute to play around with as a med student / resident, but once you are putting your own license on the line you must use a translator anyway.
It's cute to play around with as a med student / resident, but once you are putting your own license on the line you must use a translator anyway.
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I know spanish as I'm from Puerto Rico..obviously english also 😛
From what I've heard its an advantage only in the areas that are most densely populated by a spanish speaking populace.
The most important thing about learning another language is finding a link that will make you practice it often, whether its finding people who speak that language, starting to watch tv shows in it, or just simply reading something you'd otherwise find interesting.. use that to supplement learning with Rosetta Stone perhaps.
Although, its no good to learn a language, never use it for years, and have all that time you spent learning it go to waste..make sure you have a real reason for learning it...picking up latin women maybe?
From what I've heard its an advantage only in the areas that are most densely populated by a spanish speaking populace.
The most important thing about learning another language is finding a link that will make you practice it often, whether its finding people who speak that language, starting to watch tv shows in it, or just simply reading something you'd otherwise find interesting.. use that to supplement learning with Rosetta Stone perhaps.
Although, its no good to learn a language, never use it for years, and have all that time you spent learning it go to waste..make sure you have a real reason for learning it...picking up latin women maybe?
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If you can learn Spanish fluently, I think that's great. It saves a lot of time and direct communication is better than using a translator. But if you're not that great at picking up languages or you simply don't have enough time to master it (not just know it somewhat), it might not be a good time investment.
A lot of hospitals require you to use a certified medical Spanish translator for all patients who prefer to communicate their medical information in Spanish (including those patients who can speak some English because it's the patient's preference that matters, and you can't use a family member to translate unless the patient denies the hospital translator services). If you're pretty good at Spanish but you can't pass the hospital's medical translator test, then you'll have to use the hospital translator anyway. Yes, I realize a lot of people bend these rules, but that's a risk.
So learning Spanish is the ideal, but only devote time to it if you are going to really master it. It's a patient safety issue.
A lot of hospitals require you to use a certified medical Spanish translator for all patients who prefer to communicate their medical information in Spanish (including those patients who can speak some English because it's the patient's preference that matters, and you can't use a family member to translate unless the patient denies the hospital translator services). If you're pretty good at Spanish but you can't pass the hospital's medical translator test, then you'll have to use the hospital translator anyway. Yes, I realize a lot of people bend these rules, but that's a risk.
So learning Spanish is the ideal, but only devote time to it if you are going to really master it. It's a patient safety issue.
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All future physicians should AT LEAST consider learning Spanish. There are significant amounts of immigrants that have inadequate English speaking skills. Many are not able to communicate properly with their healthcare provider or physician...I for one, can handle the two languages with ease.
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Old post but just want to say this is spot on. I said something in a similar thread but as a 3rd year there's very little you bring to the party: your notes can't be used, you usually can't put in orders (even if you do they have to be cosigned), you can't do procedures unsupervised etc. People talk about being "useful" to the team but aside from some very low-level stuff (calling outside facilities, for example) or acting as a gofer it's not really possible to be useful. But speaking a foreign language (Spanish being far and away the most common almost everywhere in the US) when none of the attendings or residents do? Now you have a use. I got the "do you speak Spanish?" question from attendings several times during 3rd year and I always had to cringe a little inside when I said no. For you incoming M1s, do it the summer after first year; pre-meds can do it the summer before M1. Trust me that this will be 1000x more valuable to you than any of your idiotic attempts to pre-study anatomy or Step 1.
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