How Important is Research and Publication?

[Oink]

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Hey Everyone,

This is my situation. I'm going into my fourth year of undergraduate and I've been doing research for a full school year now. So far things don't look good for me in this research lab. The professor literally comes into the lab about once per week for about three minutes so he has no idea what my contributions to the lab is. He always forgets what my projects are even though I remind him time and time again.

So chances are, I'm not going to get a publication. Since most of my friends are trying to get into medical school, I always hear how publications are almost a necessity to be accepted. Obviously, I'm not trying to go to medical school. What I want to know is how big of an impact will having a publication have for my chances of getting into pharmacy school? How about just research without a publication? Should I try to find another research lab to work in if I can't get a publication with this research?

Another reason I'm writing this is because of how I mentioned that my research professor almost never comes into the lab. He has never seen any of his undergraduate researchers do any lab work. For some reason, he is publishing two of my research partners in an article really soon even though I feel that my lab work should grant me the same publication. Even my partners don't understand our professor's justification. Whenever my professor discusses about who is doing the best work, everything is based off of assumptions because he never comes in to observe us. Because of this, I think my professor is assuming that my contributions aren't good enough which is also making me worried about asking him for a letter of recommendation. Is this also a good reason to find another research lab? Thanks to anyone for any advice and for reading this!

 

[gopher13]

When I spoke to the admissions adviser about this topic (I did research for a semester and no publications) she said that they only care about publications if you want to pursue research with your PharmD.

 

[NaOH]

If your stats are decent, I can't see it mattering. Don't sweat it.

 

[30Percent]

Its not going to impact your chances of getting in as long as your stats are good. I was never asked about my research on my interviews. Some of my classmates are from non-bio backgrounds and had zero research experience at matriculation.

 

[Oink]

Okay I see, thanks for the replies! However, does that mean I shouldn't focus that much on research? This summer I've been doing about 25 hours of research per week. I've been wondering if I should do less if it won't make a big difference in my chances of admission in a pharmacy school.

 

[30Percent]

You mention you're a 4th year so are you applying right now? If you are already applying and submitting your application soon than you could cut your hrs in lab if you're not enjoying the research. If you're applying next cycle it might be in your best interest to keep working in the lab if you're expecting a LOR from your PI.

If its possible I'd try to get more pharmacy related experience (hospital or retail).

 

[Oink]

No, I'm applying next cycle. However, I am volunteering at a clinical and independent pharmacy as well as being involved in a couple clubs. I was just wondering how much of a priority I should put in this research based on my situation that I described. As far as the letter of rec., I don't know how well he will write it since he is unaware of his students' work in the lab.

I also heard that it is normal that the PI just sits at the office and not get involved in any of the lab work, which is exactly what my PI is doing. I wonder if that is really true... just throwing it out there. (Not saying my PI does nothing, just saying that there's no interaction between student and PI)

 

[PocketAces5]

No, I'm applying next cycle. However, I am volunteering at a clinical and independent pharmacy as well as being involved in a couple clubs. I was just wondering how much of a priority I should put in this research based on my situation that I described. As far as the letter of rec., I don't know how well he will write it since he is unaware of his students' work in the lab.

I also heard that it is normal that the PI just sits at the office and not get involved in any of the lab work, which is exactly what my PI is doing. I wonder if that is really true... just throwing it out there. (Not saying my PI does nothing, just saying that there's no interaction between student and PI)

Coming from a PhD program and rotating in at least 4 labs over the past two years, I can tell you that every PI is different in how they operate their labs. Some of them are very involved and are constantly watching over your shoulder, while others have very little presence in the lab itself and students have a lot of freedom. In the latter case they'll usually meet once a week and have students present short powerpoint presentations on what they have accomplished or have not accomplished in the lab since their last meeting. They'll troubleshoot problems together and go from there. Overall, it really depends on the PI themselves and how they run their lab. It is not uncommon for a PI, as in your situation, to not assist in actual lab work. That's what the graduate students are for

 

[beargirl200308]

Coming from a PhD program and rotating in at least 4 labs over the past two years, I can tell you that every PI is different in how they operate their labs. Some of them are very involved and are constantly watching over your shoulder, while others have very little presence in the lab itself and students have a lot of freedom. In the latter case they'll usually meet once a week and have students present short powerpoint presentations on what they have accomplished or have not accomplished in the lab since their last meeting. They'll troubleshoot problems together and go from there. Overall, it really depends on the PI themselves and how they run their lab. It is not uncommon for a PI, as in your situation, to not assist in actual lab work. That's what the graduate students are for

or to fix their mistakes. I'm so glad I didn't work in a lab with undergrads in them. Not that every undergrad is bad but I've seen several cases where undergrads made grad students life hell. But that's a different topic.

I would talk to your PI again about getting published. If you did the work then you should get credit for it but that's just a matter of principle. My suggestion to you is for you to do what you like to do. If you like doing lab work then do it. If you don't then don't do it. People in pharmacy school don't think any less of you if you don't like doing research or not. They know that research isn't for everyone so just be honest. That's been my impression from talking to pharmacy schools about research.

 

[Oink]

or to fix their mistakes. I'm so glad I didn't work in a lab with undergrads in them. Not that every undergrad is bad but I've seen several cases where undergrads made grad students life hell. But that's a different topic.

I would talk to your PI again about getting published. If you did the work then you should get credit for it but that's just a matter of principle. My suggestion to you is for you to do what you like to do. If you like doing lab work then do it. If you don't then don't do it. People in pharmacy school don't think any less of you if you don't like doing research or not. They know that research isn't for everyone so just be honest. That's been my impression from talking to pharmacy schools about research.

I did like doing research until the credit for the projects started being distributed unfairly. Basically me and a partner worked on an independent project together but my partner was the only one getting recognition and credit from the PI, even though that was the project I've been doing ever since I joined. At the same time, the PI is claiming I'm doing nothing which is very confusing to me since he has no justification of that. I've also been sending weekly emailed reports to him of all my work done and I'm sure he doesn't even read them. There is also another student that gets a lot of praise from the PI even though that student does very minimal work. Again, the PI never comes into the lab so he would never know who is really the one slacking off.

At this point I'm almost certain I won't get published. I doubt he'll believe me if I try to explain myself just by talking to him, and there's no way he will come into the lab to let me prove myself. I really like the research, but it really takes the fun out when I put in hard work and get nothing in return.

 

[beargirl200308]

I did like doing research until the credit for the projects started being distributed unfairly. Basically me and a partner worked on an independent project together but my partner was the only one getting recognition and credit from the PI, even though that was the project I've been doing ever since I joined. At the same time, the PI is claiming I'm doing nothing which is very confusing to me since he has no justification of that. I've also been sending weekly emailed reports to him of all my work done and I'm sure he doesn't even read them. There is also another student that gets a lot of praise from the PI even though that student does very minimal work. Again, the PI never comes into the lab so he would never know who is really the one slacking off.

At this point I'm almost certain I won't get published. I doubt he'll believe me if I try to explain myself just by talking to him, and there's no way he will come into the lab to let me prove myself. I really like the research, but it really takes the fun out when I put in hard work and get nothing in return.

Wow weekly email reports! That's really great. Well it sounds like you need to sit down with your PI and have a serious conversation. You need to sit down and show him/her exactly what you have been doing and what your partner has been doing. Bring your lab notebook and copies of the reports. I know it sounds like you are being confrontational but this is a matter of ethics. He/she cannot publish your data without your permission. Now I know you cannot publish without him/her either but really if you did the work then you should get the credit. Call a lab meeting and get everyone to show what they have done and what they haven't. I would also ask advice from another professor. Maybe they can give you better advice. If all else fails call the department head only b/c there are ethical and legal issues at stake. Only do this as a last resort. Hopefully you can get this worked out.

Once you got this situation worked out, go to a different lab. Not every professor gets along with every professor and believe me there is a lot of ego stroking that you have to do in the scientific world. But once you find a PI that will appreciate you, things will go a lot smoother. The hard part in research is finding a good lab where you trust your PI and your fellow lab mates. The actual project itself is the other hard part.

But just FYI you do not need to be published to get into any professional school. I know plenty of med school students that got in w/o being published and I also know plenty of pharmacy school students that got in w/o being published too. If anything just take this as a learning experience that you can write about in your personal statement.

gl

 

[mustang sally]

This might vary a bit regionally, but in general research/publications are not important to getting into pharmacy school.

If you feel like you are getting something out of it, then by all means keep doing it. Otherwise, don't feel like you have to do research for pharmacy school. You will probably have a better chance of success doing more pharmacy-related activities over bench research.

 

[Incitatus]

Coming from a PhD program and rotating in at least 4 labs over the past two years, I can tell you that every PI is different in how they operate their labs. Some of them are very involved and are constantly watching over your shoulder, while others have very little presence in the lab itself and students have a lot of freedom. In the latter case they'll usually meet once a week and have students present short powerpoint presentations on what they have accomplished or have not accomplished in the lab since their last meeting. They'll troubleshoot problems together and go from there. Overall, it really depends on the PI themselves and how they run their lab. It is not uncommon for a PI, as in your situation, to not assist in actual lab work. That's what the graduate students are for

Quoted for truth. My PI met with me and my partner once a week and advised us, but left most of the heavy lifting to a Grad student in a PhD program, and gave us immense freedom.
We proposed, designed and executed almost everything in our research, but it wasn't anything ground breaking... Just characterizing a novel gene in a previously unstudied organism (experimental procedures were of our design, everything else was just running gels, analyzing sequences/northern blots/dot blots/southern blots and isolating inordinate amounts of RNA and DNA.)
Our research isn't going to churn out a publication in time for this cycle though I'm confident that we'll have our paper finished and our results published within the year. :/

 

[Oink]

Wow. Thanks everyone for the responses! What I wanted to at least get is a letter of recommendation from my PI. However, I'm worried that he won't be able to write a good and truthful one since the students rarely see him.

I haven't been able to talk to him yet because he's been on vacation. It's somewhat hard to think of a conversation to have with him because this lab is pretty much going nowhere. For the whole year that I've been in this lab, there has been no real progress in any of the projects. What I used to do was grow viruses so we can do future experiments from there. I hit a small problem when the virus just wouldn't grow for a while but I believe it's been fixed. Since I switched projects to try to get more recognition from my PI, it feels like I started over in this lab and wasted all my time.

What is frustrating me is that the other students aren't taking research lab seriously. Some of them don't do any work or don't show up to the lab at all. Yet, the PI believes that they are doing a superb job and I don't get any comment about my work. What I'll try to do when the PI comes back from vacation is ask him what he believes my role has been in this lab and what he really thinks of me as an undergraduate researcher. Then maybe I'll ask if he's been getting my weekly reports to prove that I've been constantly doing work. If none of that works, then I'll just ask him what I should do better in the lab or just make research less of a priority.