How important is the MCAT compared to GPA?

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Green Apple

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I used to think a high MCAT score can compensate for a low GPA. Someone once mentioned this formula: if 10*GPA + MCAT > 70, you'll get into med school. So I took my MCAT and got a 39. My GPA is a borderline 3.50. I applied to a bunch of schools last year and didn't get accepted.

Your MCAT score has to be high enough for your app to be considered. But a very high MCAT score isn't going to get you accepted, adcoms look at the GPA and other things to decide that. But GPA is the most important factor by far. I think any MCAT score over 35 is good enough for top tier schools. It doesn't help to go above and beyond.

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Ahmed786

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It also depends on where you applied. Did you only apply to the top schools in the country? And the GPA is NOT the most important factor by far to be honest. Actually, according to U of M's med school (referring to that chat with that admissions officer http://www.accepted.com/chat/transcripts/2007/med06132007_michigan.aspx), MCAT is more important than GPA. Also, you have to divide your GPA into a BCPM GPA and the rest of your classes GPA. If your BCPM GPA was really low that might have hindered your chances of getting into a particular school.
 

BigRedPremed

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I used to think a high MCAT score can compensate for a low GPA. Someone once mentioned this formula: if 10*GPA + MCAT > 70, you'll get into med school. So I took my MCAT and got a 39. My GPA is a borderline 3.50. I applied to a bunch of schools last year and didn't get accepted.

Your MCAT score has to be high enough for your app to be considered. But a very high MCAT score isn't going to get you accepted, adcoms look at the GPA and other things to decide that. But GPA is the most important factor by far. I think any MCAT score over 35 is good enough for top tier schools. It doesn't help to go above and beyond.


Let me guess:

a) Late applicaton

b) Your science GPA was much lower than 3.50.

c) Only applied to top tier schools and/or not enough schools

Is one of these true?
 
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smuwillobrien

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If the choice was between a 4.0 and a 28, or a 3.3 and a 35, I'd rather have the higher GPA than have the higher MCAT score. I think it would get you more interviews, but it all depends on where you apply. Either way, the interview is what will determine everything - at least, that's how I felt after my application cycle process.
 

ADeadLois

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Let me guess:

a) Late applicaton

b) Your science GPA was much lower than 3.50.

c) Only applied to top tier schools and/or not enough schools

Is one of these true?

A bad LOR or interview is also a possibility.
 

gotmeds?

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I used to think a high MCAT score can compensate for a low GPA. Someone once mentioned this formula: if 10*GPA + MCAT > 70, you'll get into med school. So I took my MCAT and got a 39. My GPA is a borderline 3.50. I applied to a bunch of schools last year and didn't get accepted.

Your MCAT score has to be high enough for your app to be considered. But a very high MCAT score isn't going to get you accepted, adcoms look at the GPA and other things to decide that. But GPA is the most important factor by far. I think any MCAT score over 35 is good enough for top tier schools. It doesn't help to go above and beyond.

I'm sorry to hear that you didn't have any luck last year. I don't think that your GPA is the problem, though. No acceptances with a 39 and a 3.5 probably means that something else was wrong with your application. Have you tried contacting any of the schools where you weren't accepted to see what you can do to improve your application? Bigred and DeadLois have already pointed out the most likely reasons. Having no clinical or volunteer experience can also be an application killer. With stats like yours, you have an excellent chance of getting in as long as you can find and fix the problem.
 

MWillie

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MCAT is about equaly important
 
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Blade28

I always thought a high GPA with a low MCAT tipped off the adcoms that something was amiss during your undergrad years - whether that be grade inflation, an easy major, easy classes, etc.

I'm not a huge believer in being a "poor test taker" - you've been taking tests all your life, including a ton of midterms and finals in college, so you've obviously got some proficiency there.

Then again, if you have a decent GPA but high MCAT, you may be able to explain your grades if you have a unique/difficult major, go to a tough school, etc.

I agree that having a GPA that's too low will automatically fail some schools' "screens."

To the OP, here's the usual advice - in addition to good grades and a high MCAT, did you have (1) great letters of rec, (2) research experience, (3) good extra-curriculars, (4) volunteer experience, (5) an interesting personal statement, and (6) did you apply early, as already advocated?
 

jochi1543

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I agree that having a GPA that's too low will automatically fail some schools' "screens."
I don't really feel that a 3.5 GPA merits getting screened out based on academic criteria anywhere with the exception of being an OOS applicant at a couple of state schools.
 

Green Apple

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Let me guess:

a) Late applicaton

b) Your science GPA was much lower than 3.50.

c) Only applied to top tier schools and/or not enough schools

Is one of these true?

I guess A is true. I took the August MCAT (the very last paper and pencil MCAT) and finished my secondaries in mid October. Applying early would have helped
 

drizzt3117

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I guess A is true. I took the August MCAT (the very last paper and pencil MCAT) and finished my secondaries in mid October. Applying early would have helped

Finished secs in mid Oct? We didn't get scores until late Oct... you must not have been complete until very close to the deadline. I have almost the same stats, took the same MCAT, and chose not to apply because I felt it'd be a huge disadvantage to apply so late.
 

Green Apple

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My science GPA is a 3.56. It would be about 3.7 if not for Biochem II and Advanced Ochem in my senior year. I have 250+ hours of hospital volunteering, tons of shadowing , two summers of research. I didn't start learning English until the 6th grade, I think that's at least interesting.

The GPA reflects your work over a period of 4 years. It's a better indicator of the level of performance you are consitently capable of. To get a good MCAT score, all you have to do is study like hell for it before you take it. I'm not downplaying the difficulty of the MCAT. I studied, ate, and slept with my prep books for a solid month before I took the test. But my point is that 1 month, no matter how diffult, is much easier than 4 years of consistent hard work. You can make a huge difference in your MCAT if study hard enough, but it's more difficult to maintain a high GPA over several years. I think adcoms know this, and therefore place higher emphasis on the GPA.
 
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Green Apple

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Finished secs in mid Oct? We didn't get scores until late Oct... you must not have been complete until very close to the deadline. I have almost the same stats, took the same MCAT, and chose not to apply because I felt it'd be a huge disadvantage to apply so late.

You might be right about the exact date. I received lots of secondaries before my MCAT scores came out. So those apps were complete as soon as the scores came out in late October.
 

drizzt3117

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My science GPA is a 3.56. It would be about 3.7 if not for Biochem II and Advanced Ochem in my senior year. I have 250+ hours of hospital volunteering, tons of shadowing , two summers of research. I didn't start learning English until the 6th grade, I think that's at least interesting.

The GPA reflects your work over a period of 4 years. It's a better indicator of the level of performance you are consitently capable of. To get a good MCAT score, all you have to do is study like hell for it before you take it. I'm not downplaying the difficulty of the MCAT. I studied, ate, and slept with my prep books for a solid month before I took the test. But my point is that 1 month, no matter how diffult, is much easier than 4 years of consistent hard work. You can make a huge difference in your MCAT if study hard enough, but it's more difficult to maintain a high GPA over several years. I think adcoms know this, and therefore place higher emphasis on the GPA.

The one adcom that was quoted in this thread straight up said MCAT was more important. Not everyone can do well on the MCAT no matter how much they study because the test not only tests you on a wide range of material that is relevant for medical school but also forces you to be able to quickly sort through that information and make decisions.
 

drizzt3117

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You might be right about the exact date. I received lots of secondaries before my MCAT scores came out. So those apps were complete as soon as the scores came out in late October.

You're overestimating how fast schools work. They might have had access to your scores in late October (Scores were released 10/20/06 around noon as I recall) but actually putting that stuff into your app and marking it complete likely took longer. I had letters on VE in early July and some schools didn't mark my applications as compete for a month later. Then you have to deal with when admissions committees meet to do interview decisions. Some schools only meet at the end of the month. If you missed the october meeting, then you likely didn't have a chance for an interview in 2006. Applying late is a huge disadvantage.
 

radi0headfan

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I'm not a huge believer in being a "poor test taker" - you've been taking tests all your life, including a ton of midterms and finals in college, so you've obviously got some proficiency there.

I know people that do well on tests in school, but generally do bad on standardized tests and vice versa. I don't think anything really went amiss as you said, but rather that the tests are in two separate categories. Someone can do well on only tests in school, only standardized tests, or both.
 

Green Apple

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My LOR's were good, as the person who wrote my committee letter told me, and it wasn't the interview because I didn't get a chance to screw those up (very few interviews). With the exceptions of a disgruntled professor, lor's are all good. That's why they are lor's. For a lor to stand out it has to be pretty stellar.

Drizzt, I hear what you're saying. even though I finished my apps in late october (which is pretty late already). They probably weren't looked at until much later. How do you know some adcoms only meet at the end of the month? I'd imagine looking at all those apps would be a full-time job.
 

littlealex

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I used to think a high MCAT score can compensate for a low GPA. Someone once mentioned this formula: if 10*GPA + MCAT > 70, you'll get into med school. So I took my MCAT and got a 39. My GPA is a borderline 3.50. I applied to a bunch of schools last year and didn't get accepted.

Your MCAT score has to be high enough for your app to be considered. But a very high MCAT score isn't going to get you accepted, adcoms look at the GPA and other things to decide that. But GPA is the most important factor by far. I think any MCAT score over 35 is good enough for top tier schools. It doesn't help to go above and beyond.


How many interviews?
 

drizzt3117

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My LOR's were good, as the person who wrote my committee letter told me, and it wasn't the interview because I didn't get a chance to screw those up (very few interviews). With the exceptions of a disgruntled professor, lor's are all good. That's why they are lor's. For a lor to stand out it has to be pretty stellar.

Lukewarm LORs can be considered a negative...

Drizzt, I hear what you're saying. even though I finished my apps in late october (which is pretty late already). They probably weren't looked at until much later. How do you know some adcoms only meet at the end of the month? I'd imagine looking at all those apps would be a full-time job.

I know some adcom members, and from what I've heard, some schools meet once a month (on the 30th/31st) and look over all of the apps that pass preliminary screening to make a decision on interviews and or acceptances.
 

BigRedPremed

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Or crappy EC's, or a rancid Personal Statement.

They're all possibilities but quite frankly I haven't seen too many of these 39 MCAT, poor personal statement types. Most of the time it's because the applicant had a late appication.
 

inaminute

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If the choice was between a 4.0 and a 28, or a 3.3 and a 35, I'd rather have the higher GPA than have the higher MCAT score. I think it would get you more interviews, but it all depends on where you apply. Either way, the interview is what will determine everything - at least, that's how I felt after my application cycle process.

said the guy with a 4.2 and a 36 T...
 

MassTransport

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Yeah, that's also not applying broadly... I applied to 30 schools with similar stats.

Crazy Californians. Listen, 10 is an absolutely acceptable number if you apply to reasonable schools within your range. Since you applied late, it would have been better to apply to more, but if you're on time this cycle then you will be fine. A 39 is an extremely good score and a 3.5 is a competitive GPA, and provided all other aspects of your application were on the bubble, the major detriment was your lateness.
 

Rikkye

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actually, in terms of mcat, i have to disagree with a few of you

i think a low mcat score can be compensated if it is a balanced score bc time & speed may be a factor when taking the exam

in another word, i see a 10/10/10 as better than 8/13/11, but that's just me, correct me if you think otherwise
 

zackscoot

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actually, in terms of mcat, i have to disagree with a few of you

i think a low mcat score can be compensated if it is a balanced score bc time & speed may be a factor when taking the exam

in another word, i see a 10/10/10 as better than 8/13/11, but that's just me, correct me if you think otherwise

Personally i think MCAT score are maybe a little more important. MCAT can test your "potentials" to see if you have the intellectual potentials to think critically. Whereas, GPA is greatly affected by which school you go to. Think of it this way. You have a 3.6 or 3.7 at a state school but a 26-28 on MCAT. You could've have worked super hard to get that 3.6 others who worked alot less got 3.4 or 3.3 for their GPA but a 38 MCAT scores. This shows that even if you worked hard, your intellectual capability has been reached whereas the other person with a 38 and a worse GPA would've probably did ALOT better than you academically if they just put in alittle more effort into their work and they probably have a MUCH higher intellecutal capacity than you.


I dont know... that's just the way i think...
 

zackscoot

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actually, in terms of mcat, i have to disagree with a few of you

i think a low mcat score can be compensated if it is a balanced score bc time & speed may be a factor when taking the exam

in another word, i see a 10/10/10 as better than 8/13/11, but that's just me, correct me if you think otherwise

I think that a 10/10/10 is worse that 9/12/13... I think that as long as the lowest of your score is 9, the higher the better for the other two no matter how unbalanced they are.
 

Green Apple

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Personally i think MCAT score are maybe a little more important. MCAT can test your "potentials" to see if you have the intellectual potentials to think critically. Whereas, GPA is greatly affected by which school you go to. Think of it this way. You have a 3.6 or 3.7 at a state school but a 26-28 on MCAT. You could've have worked super hard to get that 3.6 others who worked alot less got 3.4 or 3.3 for their GPA but a 38 MCAT scores. This shows that even if you worked hard, your intellectual capability has been reached whereas the other person with a 38 and a worse GPA would've probably did ALOT better than you academically if they just put in alittle more effort into their work and they probably have a MUCH higher intellecutal capacity than you.


I dont know... that's just the way i think...

That makes sense, I hope adcoms think that way, for my sake. That person with 3.3 or 3.4 would have to come up with some EC's to explain why he didn't work as hard for his GPA. I think adcoms take low GPA's at face value unless the applicant can provide some really good excuses (like four years of crew or death in the family)
 

DoctorPhud

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Personally i think MCAT score are maybe a little more important. MCAT can test your "potentials" to see if you have the intellectual potentials to think critically. Whereas, GPA is greatly affected by which school you go to. Think of it this way. You have a 3.6 or 3.7 at a state school but a 26-28 on MCAT. You could've have worked super hard to get that 3.6 others who worked alot less got 3.4 or 3.3 for their GPA but a 38 MCAT scores. This shows that even if you worked hard, your intellectual capability has been reached whereas the other person with a 38 and a worse GPA would've probably did ALOT better than you academically if they just put in alittle more effort into their work and they probably have a MUCH higher intellecutal capacity than you.


I dont know... that's just the way i think...

Having looked at these threads for a while, I'm going to bring up something that has been nagging at me - High GPA, Low MCAT students.

There are a lot of people out there with a consistent GPA around 3.8+ from a little-known school, who achieve an MCAT of < 32. Meanwhile, quite a few of the Ivys have students who work hard to get a GPA or 3.6+ and get high 30s/low 40s MCATs. I know it's par for the course around here to have a go at Ivys for grade inflation, but some of them are competitive and attract some students who really are on top of their game, while the question of grade inflation at lesser-known schools isn't discussed.

If the adcom doesn't know anything about your school's level of difficulty, there are two reasonable options for when a person has a high GPA and low MCAT:
1. The person had a bad MCAT day. Perhaps they need to retake. If they did the same over several MCATs, though, something is up.
2. Their school was easy in grading, and when they hit the MCAT, they got soundly beaten for it.

Meanwhile, a low GPA and high MCAT could indicate:
1. Good test taker, bad long-term student (unlikely, because the MCAT covers stuff that will be in the majority of basic science exams)
2. That the student had some sort of undergrad problems that harmed their GPA (health, family, etc.)
3. That their school was tough in grading.

Ideally, a student should have a 32+ MCAT with a 3.6+ GPA. The two complement each other and tell the adcoms that neither of the grades is an error, and that you are a solid student and they can trust those metrics.

Looking at the Harvard graduates from MDApps (Harvard College and HES), there are a few oddities, but by and large, MCAT = GPA x 10. That's a neat correlation. I imagine that people with those stats or people with MCAT > GPA x 10 look better on the face of it than high GPA, low MCAT.

That said, the consensus here seems to be that top schools tend to screen for GPAs above 3.6/3.65, so for good interest at top 25 MD schools, 3.6+/36+ is probably nice. Most of those schools start their secondaries late and don't have rolling admissions, so timing is probably less of an issue than for some others.

YMMV.
 

masterMood

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You applied in late October/early november. People start applying on June 5. That's at least a 5 month difference between applications.


Many people are already booked for interviews by that point.


That's the reason.


So the question now is what are you going to do in your off year?
 

medguy83

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After meeting with a few adcom members I have come to understand that schools view your mcat score as a general gague of your intellectual ability, while gpa measures how hard you can work. I'm not too sure about any one certain formula that all schools use to measure applicants, I think do think most use their own permutation of something along the lines of multiplying gpa, or mcat, etc. Heck, look at the formula used by UMich for undergrad acceptances, something along the lines of utilizing a scale of minority and life experience multiplied by who knows what. In general schools do tend to have cut-off points in terms of grades and mcat; however, the acceptance process as a whole is very complex and many times seemingly unfair. There are far too many horror stories of the 3.8 and 40 mcat applicant who ends up getting 3 interviews and no acceptances. Equally, there have been many people with sub-par stats who have made it into some very competitive programs. You never know what just might happen when you actually throw your app out there.
 

st0w

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Something that's a huge factor that I'm surprised nobody's touched on yet: whether GPA or MCAT are preferential depends entirely on the particular school. There's no way to make a broad generalization that says high GPA/low MCAT is always better than low GPA/high MCAT. As has been said, ideally both should be above average. But some schools will be more open to students with a less-than-stellar MCAT, while others aren't quite as concerned with GPA...
 
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Blade28

I don't really feel that a 3.5 GPA merits getting screened out based on academic criteria anywhere with the exception of being an OOS applicant at a couple of state schools.

Agreed. I was speaking hypothetically - referring more to a GPA of around 3.2-3.3, for example.
 
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Blade28

I know people that do well on tests in school, but generally do bad on standardized tests and vice versa. I don't think anything really went amiss as you said, but rather that the tests are in two separate categories. Someone can do well on only tests in school, only standardized tests, or both.

Bear in mind you'll be facing LOTS of standardized tests on your way to becoming an attending physician - in addition to the USMLE Steps 1, 2 CK, and 3, you've also got the NBME shelf exams for many of your MS-III rotations. Depending on what field you enter, you may also have board exams.

I'm just saying that the time to really prepare for these tests is now.

Edit: DoctorPhud, excellent post! I completely agree.

I also agree that you should apply more broadly - I may have gone overboard when I applied to med school (back in 2000), but being in UC for undergrad, I was justifiably worried...so I applied to around 30.
 

littlealex

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why do Californians apply to so many schools?


Because every UC is almost by definition a reach school. A typical state school averages about 20% acceptance rate. The UCs have 4-6% acceptance rate. Which means even if your stats are ABOVE the school's average, the probability of you getting in is still quite low. I know people who got into Hopkins and Stanford med but was rejected by UCLA.
 

rfathi1

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actually, in terms of mcat, i have to disagree with a few of you

i think a low mcat score can be compensated if it is a balanced score bc time & speed may be a factor when taking the exam

in another word, i see a 10/10/10 as better than 8/13/11, but that's just me, correct me if you think otherwise

I'll take the 32 over the 30 any day of the week but that's just me.
 

sv3a

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It also depends if that 3.5 is from, like, Cal Tech or from another school.

MCAT overall is much more important than GPA, according to people I've talked to and people one of my friends talked to, the latter including a couple of admissions officers. I work in a lab for a med school professor who also says that the dean of admissions to our med school considers MCAT to be much more important, because all GPAs are not equal, while everyone takes the same MCAT. When you're competing against thousands of other students, it's your MCAT that makes more sense as the standardized tool to differentiate you from everyone else. GPAs depend too much on your university, your specific school, your major, etc. to make an accurate comparison between two people.

That said, GPA is still the second most important thing behind MCAT, because it's still massively important in determining how you performed as an undergrad. Still, with a 3.5 and 39 you should have definitely gotten insomewhere, so next year you'll definitely have more luck when you apply earlier. Just make sure to apply to lots of places if you can afford it.
 

Lacipart

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Yikes, I have a 3.6 GPA and estimate my MCAT to be a 33. Better work on those research and volunteering hours :|
 
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