How Important is Undergraduate School?

[lakersfan24]

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How much weight does your undergraduate institution carry in the whole admissions process?

 

[kehlsh]

LEARN TO SEARCH PLZ
this has been asked many times i believe

 

[Guy Montag]

LEARN TO SEARCH PLZ
this has been asked many times i believe

^🙂

 

[gettheleadout]

Important enough to have been discussed a billion times before on these forums. Search, and ye will find.

 

[nctw]

Harvard or Caribbean

 

[Juicec]

If you don't go to a top 10 undergraduate institution you have no less than 1.67% chance to get into an M.D. medical school. You do however have a 90% chance to get into a D.O. program but don't do that, you will just wasting your money -- they aren't real doctors. Also I do hear that some places in the Caribbean accept 76% of the state school applicants 100% of the time.

Also dentists make more money than doctors and community college pre-req's don't count for anything.

👍

 

[DinoSaysRawr]

If you don't go to a top 10 undergraduate institution you have no less than 1.67% chance to get into an M.D. medical school. You do however have a 90% chance to get into a D.O. program but don't do that, you will just wasting your money -- they aren't real doctors. Also I do hear that some places in the Caribbean accept 76% of the state school applicants 100% of the time.

Also dentists make more money than doctors and community college pre-req's don't count for anything.

👍

This is probably the best advice I've ever had the privilege of reading on SDN.

 

[sector9]

OP, you should do some searching for flatearth22's posts (assuming that you aren't really him, starting a new trolling account. Imagine a troll starting a 2nd troll account). He loves to talk about this

If you don't go to a top 10 undergraduate institution you have no less than 1.67% chance to get into an M.D. medical school. You do however have a 90% chance to get into a D.O. program but don't do that, you will just wasting your money -- they aren't real doctors. Also I do hear that some places in the Caribbean accept 76% of the state school applicants 100% of the time.

Also dentists make more money than doctors and community college pre-req's don't count for anything.

👍

👍👍

 

[coyotelime]

These people have got it all wrong.

HYPSM or bust. Actually scratch the M, if you don't go to HYPS and get a 4.0/39+ you really don't have a chance at MD. Sorryboutcha

 

[Shoushu]

Harvard or Caribbean

op, please don't get discouraged. There are "Harvards" in other places too. It's said that SGU is the Harvard of the tiny country of Grenada. Europe, South America, Asia all have their respective Harvards.

 

[mauberley]

If you don't go to a top 10 undergraduate institution you have no less than 1.67% chance to get into an M.D. medical school.

Doesn't that mean his chances could also be greater than 1.67% if it's not less than that?

 

[Knocked Up]

Short answer: No.

Long answer: The MCAT is the MOST important aspect, followed about 10 paces below by GPA, and then another five paces by Ugrad institution. So in review here: MCAT >>>>>>>> anything else.

 

[tiedyeddog]

Long answer: The MCAT is the MOST important aspect, followed about 10 paces below by GPA, and then another five paces by Ugrad institution. So in review here: MCAT >>>>>>>> anything else.

EH, I tend to think GPA and MCAT are pretty similar in importance. So for me, (MCAT = GPA)>Volunteering/shadowing>Research>(Undergrad school=rec letters.)

 

[sector9]

EH, I tend to think GPA and MCAT are pretty similar in importance. So for me, (MCAT = GPA)>Volunteering/shadowing>Research>(Undergrad school=rec letters.)

Don't pay attention to knocked up. He doesn't know how to do well enough on the MCAT to pass muster for med schools so he takes out his frustration by posting something like this in every thread

 

[gettheleadout]

Don't pay attention to knocked up. He doesn't know how to do well enough on the MCAT to pass muster for med schools so he takes out his frustration by posting something like this in every thread

OMG this x 1000.

 

[liveoak]

state schools produce better human beings. private schools produce chronically depressed disasters.

go medicine.

 

[Slowpoke]

Don't pay attention to knocked up. He doesn't know how to do well enough on the MCAT to pass muster for med schools so he takes out his frustration by posting something like this in every thread

👍

 

[tiedyeddog]

state schools produce better human beings. private schools produce chronically depressed disasters.

 

[Guy Montag]

state schools produce better human beings. private schools produce chronically depressed disasters.

go medicine.

Someone went to Cornell for pre-med. 🙁

 

[Tim Armstrong]

Don't pay attention to knocked up. He doesn't know how to do well enough on the MCAT to pass muster for med schools so he takes out his frustration by posting something like this in every thread

hahahahahaha thank you👍

 

[blizzah]

Note this is just one school (Mt. Sinai) but they had 140 Matriculants and 54 schools represented. These are their top undergrad schools

Number of Undergraduate Schools 54
(Brown=16, Harvard=7, Penn=7, Columbia=6, NYU=6, Wash U=6, Williams=6, Yale=6

 

[WorldChanger36]

Search function was invented to prevent threads like this. I know the title of this thread must have generated results that would have put the OP worries to rest and prevented the horror we call a thread.

OP, Y U NO Click on the threads that came up when you typed in that title? Oh the humanity....

 

[kpcrew]

Short answer: No.

Long answer: The MCAT is the MOST important aspect, followed about 10 paces below by GPA, and then another five paces by Ugrad institution. So in review here: MCAT >>>>>>>> anything else.

dude stop doing this. the mcat is not the only important aspect. schools look at your application holistically. there are many different factors. if you don't like your mcat score, retake it.

 

[NickNaylor]

The derp is strong with this thread.

 

[tiedyeddog]

Number of Undergraduate Schools 54
(Brown=16, Harvard=7, Penn=7, Columbia=6, NYU=6, Wash U=6, Williams=6, Yale=6

I understand what people automatically think this data means, but you need to go a little deeper. Don't you think those people who are motivated enough to get into an extremely competitive undergrad, like an ivy, would be much more likely to do well in college/on the MCAT and have better numbers when applying to medical school?

I am absolutely NOT saying where you go to undergrad doesn't help. I think it does, just not to the degree people chalk it up to.

 

[Porfirio]

I transferred from a junior college to a 4 year (Texas A&M University), finished in 3 years (AP classes), and graduated with $0 in student loans.

Does school matter? No, do your best, be honest, and pwn the MCAT.

 

[liveoak]

I understand what people automatically think this data means, but you need to go a little deeper. Don't you think those people who are motivated enough to get into an extremely competitive undergrad, like an ivy, would be much more likely to do well in college/on the MCAT and have better numbers when applying to medical school?

I am absolutely NOT saying where you go to undergrad doesn't help. I think it does, just not to the degree people chalk it up to.

Yes. If you wanted to go to a prestigious school at 18 years old, nothing has changed when you are 23.

people at state schools are more chill. they don't live in an environment where you are snickered at if you attend a state medical school. Peer pressure makes a huge difference. It's also why med students from state schools are much better human beings/doctors. They can relate to their patients much easier because their education background is similar. <====i've said this twice now. Let's start a war please.

 

[blizzah]

I understand what people automatically think this data means, but you need to go a little deeper. Don't you think those people who are motivated enough to get into an extremely competitive undergrad, like an ivy, would be much more likely to do well in college/on the MCAT and have better numbers when applying to medical school?

I am absolutely NOT saying where you go to undergrad doesn't help. I think it does, just not to the degree people chalk it up to.

I agree. But just as easily I can say that the school name helps.

In the end the truth is somewhere in the middle and people really ought to stop making these threads.

 

[NickNaylor]

I agree. But just as easily I can say that the school name helps.

In the end the truth is somewhere in the middle and people really ought to stop making these threads.

I don't think there's something intrinsic about top tier schools that improves the quality of your application. In other words, having "Harvard" on your application alone isn't going to do squat. What DOES help, however, are the immense resources available to you as a student at a top tier university - many things that either aren't available or are much more difficult to get access to at state schools. You still have to do work to take advantage of those opportunities, but they are there in abundance for those who choose to take advantage of them.

 

[Morsetlis]

I don't think there's something intrinsic about top tier schools that improves the quality of your application. In other words, having "Harvard" on your application alone isn't going to do squat. What DOES help, however, are the immense resources available to you as a student at a top tier university - many things that either aren't available or are much more difficult to get access to at state schools. You still have to do work to take advantage of those opportunities, but they are there in abundance for those who choose to take advantage of them.

Yep.

Also, if you got into Harvard in the first place, you're probably going to do well in your entire career. Thus, there's a higher percentage of successful (obviously subjective) Harvardians than successful Podunkians.

 

[gettheleadout]

dude stop doing this. the mcat is not the only important aspect. schools look at your application holistically. there are many different factors. if you don't like your mcat score, retake it.

Oh he's going to keep doing it.

Yes. If you wanted to go to a prestigious school at 18 years old, nothing has changed when you are 23.

people at state schools are more chill. they don't live in an environment where you are snickered at if you attend a state medical school. Peer pressure makes a huge difference. It's also why med students from state schools are much better human beings/doctors. They can relate to their patients much easier because their education background is similar. <====i've said this twice now. Let's start a war please.

Uh oh.

I don't think there's something intrinsic about top tier schools that improves the quality of your application. In other words, having "Harvard" on your application alone isn't going to do squat. What DOES help, however, are the immense resources available to you as a student at a top tier university - many things that either aren't available or are much more difficult to get access to at state schools. You still have to do work to take advantage of those opportunities, but they are there in abundance for those who choose to take advantage of them.

I would add that the name may qualify your GPA (i.e. if you get a 3.9 at Princeton or some other deflationary school I wouldn't be surprised if it were viewed as a greater accomplishment than a 4.0 at a state school.) Maybe this is too obvious, but I felt like bringing it up. Whatever.

 

[doctorshateher]

At one of my interviews at a top tier schools this cycle an interviewer asked me if I had "taken the safe route" by attending the small in-state private school I graduated from rather than say University of Michigan or some Ivy League school. I fumbled through my answer, rambled a bit about low average GPAs and turtle color change. I'm pretty sure that is part of the reason why I am on continued review at that school.

Now, I DEFINITELY know that I could have answered the question a LOT better, but I was taken aback by having the legitimacy of my undergrad education questioned. I know that n=1, but I don't think that question comes up with people from big name schools.

Luckily that was early in the cycle and I learned to prepare for that question. It didn't come up in any other interviews.

 

[NickNaylor]

I would add that the name may qualify your GPA (i.e. if you get a 3.9 at Princeton or some other deflationary school I wouldn't be surprised if it were viewed as a greater accomplishment than a 4.0 at a state school.) Maybe this is too obvious, but I felt like bringing it up. Whatever.

This is true, but a 4.0 from any university is going to demonstrate that you're qualified for medical school. The problem comes when you have less than stellar grades; at that point I would agree that attending a more rigorous school would be advantageous. Importantly, though, Ivies =/= rigorous in all cases.

 

[NickNaylor]

At one of my interviews at a top tier schools this cycle an interviewer asked me if I had "taken the safe route" by attending the small in-state private school I graduated from rather than say University of Michigan or some Ivy League school. I fumbled through my answer, rambled a bit about low average GPAs and turtle color change. I'm pretty sure that is part of the reason why I am on continued review at that school.

Now, I DEFINITELY know that I could have answered the question a LOT better, but I was taken aback by having the legitimacy of my undergrad education questioned. I know that n=1, but I don't think that question comes up with people from big name schools.

Luckily that was early in the cycle and I learned to prepare for that question. It didn't come up in any other interviews.

Yeah, that was a pretty bad answer. 🙁 But your interviewer was a tool for asking that question. There's a much more subtle and professional way to ask why you chose your undergrad. I was asked this question at almost every interview. Phrasing the question in such a way as to minimize the quality of your institution is pathetic.

 

[Guy Montag]

This is true, but a 4.0 from any university is going to demonstrate that you're qualified for medical school. The problem comes when you have less than stellar grades; at that point I would agree that attending a more rigorous school would be advantageous. Importantly, though, Ivies =/= rigorous in all cases.

This is the only real time it's that advantageous outside of the ivy med schools. Some places are more rigorous than others, and even very bright people get <3.5. A 3.4 at MIT =/= a 3.4 at Podunk U. At the same time, a 4.0 from Podunk U cannot be argued over, but a 4.0/27 at Podunk U could be explained by a lack of rigor at the institution. Whether this is fair or not is up for interpretation.

But your interviewer was a tool for asking that question. There's a much more subtle and professional way to ask why you chose your undergrad. I was asked this question at almost every interview.

That is kind of tool-ish, I agree. You can sort of see what they were getting at though. For instance if I'd stayed at my original state university and not transferred to my more rigorous current institution, I'd be applying with a 3.8+ right now. I suppose they just don't want to let in people that tend to take the easy way out? Even so, that's being a bit presumptuous in my opinion.

 

[liveoak]

That is kind of tool-ish, I agree. You can sort of see what they were getting at though. For instance if I'd stayed at my original state university and not transferred to my more rigorous current institution, I'd be applying with a 3.8+ right now. I suppose they just don't want to let in people that tend to take the easy way out? Even so, that's being a bit presumptuous in my opinion.

if your new institution is so damned rigorous, it will pay-off when you take the mcat and will show there.

That's the beauty of the MCAT. It puts everyone at an equal playing field.

 

[doctorshateher]

Yeah, that was a pretty bad answer. 🙁 But your interviewer was a tool for asking that question. There's a much more subtle and professional way to ask why you chose your undergrad. I was asked this question at almost every interview. Phrasing the question in such a way as to minimize the quality of your institution is pathetic.

Yeah... I've been asked that at all my interviews but none quite like that. It was my first out of state interview. Meh, you live and you learn. I've learned to answer that question much better now and even spin it to a diversity asset in terms of unique perspectives to bring to a school.

At this point, it's been kind of fun being the only person from a no-name school at most of my interviews. I have no doubt the school I come from makes top tier schools at least pause for a moment when reviewing my file.

 

[doctorshateher]

That being said, I know for a fact that I would not have had the opportunities for leadership and growth had I gone to a "better" school. Choosing and undergrad school is a very personal decision that should be decided on how well you think you will thrive in the environment of that school.

 

[blizzah]

That being said, I know for a fact that I would not have had the opportunities for leadership and growth had I gone to a "better" school. Choosing and undergrad school is a very personal decision that should be decided on how well you think you will thrive in the environment of that school.

Though it is hard to know if you will thrive until you attend.

 

[Guy Montag]

if your new institution is so damned rigorous, it will pay-off when you take the mcat and will show there.

That's the beauty of the MCAT. It puts everyone at an equal playing field.

Meh. MCAT was >85th percentile, but not super high. Much of the rigor here comes from standardized grading systems and inter-competition. The actual volume of knowledge is only a bit larger.

 

[raltima07]

One point I would like to throw in: From my interview experience, I don't think school name matter to such an extent at the more "average" schools, schools outside the top 30. However, when you get to the top tiers, I think name starts to matter much more. Even then, though, if you are good no one cares. I have a few top 20 interviews, and although I was the only no name student there (with the exception of vandysocc, who I met at an interview), I was still there. So if you are good, it won't hold you back; it can only help you.

I think.

 

[gettheleadout]

This is true, but a 4.0 from any university is going to demonstrate that you're qualified for medical school. The problem comes when you have less than stellar grades; at that point I would agree that attending a more rigorous school would be advantageous. Importantly, though, Ivies =/= rigorous in all cases.

Oh no doubt a 4.0 won't from anywhere isn't going to be seen as insufficient, but when so many candidates are qualified enough, I can still imagine the comparison coming in to play even with high GPA's. And yes, I would not attempt to equate any prestigious school with academic rigor.

 

[ricegirl08]

Yes. If you wanted to go to a prestigious school at 18 years old, nothing has changed when you are 23.

people at state schools are more chill. they don't live in an environment where you are snickered at if you attend a state medical school. Peer pressure makes a huge difference. It's also why med students from state schools are much better human beings/doctors. They can relate to their patients much easier because their education background is similar. <====i've said this twice now. Let's start a war please.

Generalize much?

 

[tiedyeddog]

Generalize much?

I think he his purposefully trying to start a flame war... so, yes.

 

[chronicidal]

Example 1: UMich gives automatic interview invites to applicants who have above a certain MCAT, GPA, and are from certain big-name institutions (e.g. HYPSM).

Example 2: The average GPA of a Harvard student accepted to given top 30 medical school is 0.1-0.2 lower than that of the average student accepted into that medical school. Yes, maybe these students do above-average extracurriculars, but I reckon some of it is the name, too.

Example 3: Anecdotally, I've gotten the impression from some (closed-file) interviewers who see the name of my undergrad on my name tag and automatically give a kind of benefit of the doubt, as in a high baseline of quality is assumed. You don't have to build yourself from the ground up. It helps make a good first impression.

Example 4: Faculty at top medical schools often went to good undergraduate institutions. It helps to form some kind of connection (albeit an elitist one) if both you and your interviewer went to a really good school. "oh you were junior PBK at yale? I was junior PBK at harvard decades ago!"

 

[Guy Montag]

Oh no doubt a 4.0 won't from anywhere isn't going to be seen as insufficient, but when so many candidates are qualified enough, I can still imagine the comparison coming in to play even with high GPA's. And yes, I would not attempt to equate any prestigious school with academic rigor.

Just because some places are inflated does not mean that they aren't difficult or that other comparable places also have inflation. This seems to be a common misconception on SDN (not saying that this was what you were saying GTLO). Competition is very high and on average more is expected of the students at top schools. Lots of normal schools have inflation as well, and can be less demanding than some of the top ones. I agree that you couldn't assume the school to be difficult because of prestige, but the average quality (>1/4 Valedictorians/salutatorians) of pre-meds at top schools yields tough inter-competition, and people are quick to dismiss this because of inflation (which is not even present at many top schools, particularly in the sciences).

 

[NickNaylor]

Example 1: UMich gives automatic interview invites to applicants who have above a certain MCAT, GPA, and are from certain big-name institutions (e.g. HYPSM).

Example 2: The average GPA of a Harvard student accepted to given top 30 medical school is 0.1-0.2 lower than that of the average student accepted into that medical school. Yes, maybe these students do above-average extracurriculars, but I reckon some of it is the name, too.

Example 3: Anecdotally, I've gotten the impression from some (closed-file) interviewers who see the name of my undergrad on my name tag and automatically give a kind of benefit of the doubt, as in a high baseline of quality is assumed. You don't have to build yourself from the ground up. It helps make a good first impression.

Example 4: Faculty at top medical schools often went to good undergraduate institutions. It helps to form some kind of connection (albeit an elitist one) if both you and your interviewer went to a really good school. "oh you were junior PBK at yale? I was junior PBK at harvard decades ago!"

While all of these things might be true, they don't necessarily translate to success in the admissions process. No one is saying that there aren't advantages to attending a prestigious university, just that those benefits have more to do with things other than JUST the name of your university. Even your anecdotes support that.

 

[nadaba]

Example 1: UMich gives automatic interview invites to applicants who have above a certain MCAT, GPA, and are from certain big-name institutions (e.g. HYPSM).

Even this isn't necessarily true. I got an auto invite from Michigan and I know my school isn't on any kind of list.

Actually, my school has led to some good conversations at interviews. It's memorable at least, especially in the vast sea of Harvard/Yale/Cal grads.

 

[intj]

Based on anecdotes, I think that the average applicant from a competitive undergrad school will have a higher mcat than the average applicant from less-competitive school, owing to both a more rigorous curriculum and better test-taking abilities that got them to the competitive undergrad school in the first place.

That could partly explain why a lot of HYPSM is to be found in the top 20 med schools

 

[ranson]

A: 33 MCAT 3.5 GPA at a top 20 school

vs

B: 33 MCAT 3.5 GPA at not ranked school

1 spot, who gets in? Student A does.

The opportunities at a top school aren't that different from any other state school. In fact, it's easier to get better letter of recommendations when you are not competing with smarter kids; it's easier to stand out. Also, medical schools want their entering class to look good, so they will take students from prestigious schools, just to say "we have students from X school."