How is Dermatology so competitive when statistics say otherwise

[rodmichael82]

If you look at the 2011 NRMP Outcomes chart it specifically shows that with a step 1 score between 230-240 roughly 84 % matched (65/77) so why does everyone on SDN say Dermatology is so competitive and people shouldn't even think about it unless they are in the 240s blah blah...
It seems like even a mid-230 score should give you a decent shot?

Edit:-

Only 10/28 matched into Plastic surgery with a 230-240 Step 1 score which is 35 % and that seems MUCH MUCH more "difficult" than the 84 % that matched in Dermatology. Dermatology had a higher match in the 230-240 bracket than even the 81 % in Orthopedic surgery, 80 % in ENT and 78 % in Radiation Oncology. I know this doesn't give any definitive conclusions but it clearly shows that statistically speaking you don't need an absurd Step 1 score to match even into the competitive fields. Anything > 235 can probably give you a fair chance to match in anything (except Plastic surgery).

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[DermViser]

-- 😏 -- --

 

[IonClaws]

If you look at the 2011 NRMP Outcomes chart it specifically shows that with a step 1 score between 230-240 roughly 84 % matched (65/77) so why does everyone on SDN say Dermatology is so competitive and people shouldn't even think about it unless they are in the 240s blah blah...
It seems like even a mid-230 score should give you a decent shot?

On SDN, unless you break 300 on the steps, are an MD/PhD from an Ivy League medical school, publish 15 papers in Science and Nature (EACH), set up 200 charity hospitals in places like Botswana, Zimbabwe, and Sudan, get higher than honors on all rotations, and get glowing letters from the deans of ALL those Ivy League medical schools (not just your own), you are doomed to a family medicine residency in South Dakota.

 

[PL198]

Look at their number of publications on average, it's like higher than I can count.


(not literally but its high)

 

[rodmichael82]

Look at their number of publications on average, it's like higher than I can count.


(not literally but its high)

hmm? 71 % of the individuals (25/35) with 1 (Abstract or presentation or publication) matched which was almost equivalent to the applicants with 2-3 publications so I have no idea what you are talking about?

 

[KinasePro]

Yeah, the med student cannon says derm is the utmost competitive and difficult to get into, but reality shows that its actually similar to ophtho/ent, maybe a bit worse than ortho and nsurg. Still not as bad as uro or plastics.

 

[PL198]

dermviser you slut

 

[rodmichael82]

Yeah, the med student cannon says derm is the utmost competitive and difficult to get into, but reality shows that its actually similar to ophtho/ent, maybe a bit worse than ortho and nsurg. Still not as bad as uro or plastics.

Only 10/28 matched into Plastic surgery with a 230-240 Step 1 score which is 35 % and that seems MUCH MUCH more competitive than the 84 % in Dermatology. Dermatology had a higher match in the 230-240 bracket than even the 81 % in Orthopedic surgery, 80 % in ENT and 78 % in Radiation Oncology. I know this doesn't give any definitive conclusions but it clearly shows that statistically speaking you don't need an absurd Step 1 score to match even into the competitive fields.

 

[Dral]

For internal medicine, the match rate for that range is 97%. Family is 97%. EM is 96%. Gen surg is 93%. Neurosurg is 88%. Neuro is 100%.

I'll stop there.

No one said it was the most competitive.

 

[rodmichael82]

For internal medicine, the match rate for that range is 97%. Family is 97%. EM is 96%. Gen surg is 93%. Neurosurg is 88%. Neuro is 100%.

I'll stop there.

No one said it was the most competitive.

I'll repeat what I posted previously.

I know this doesn't give any definitive conclusions at all but it clearly shows that statistically speaking you don't need an absurd Step 1 score to match even into the competitive fields.

Anything > 235 gives a moderate chance to match into what people consider very competitive (excluding Plastic surgery). Everyone on SDN knows getting a 235 doesn't require an individual to be a rocket scientist.

 

[Dral]

Trust me, I'm as sick of seeing Dermatology threads on this forum as much as you are....and I'm a Derm resident.

I have a PhD, I like to think I'm not totally socially awkward, got around 250 step one, 20 interview offers, 15 interviews...didn't match first time around. I obviously have my own opinions about how competitive it is. N of 1, but I'll just leave it at that.

This thread is just perpetuating it. Why people don't go on about plastics, ENT, or the few others, I don't know. I actually wish people would stop making threads about how competitive Derm is. It's quite obnoxious imo.

Also, for what it's worth, I think iirc, we interveiwed around 40 people this year and about only 2 or 3 had sub-240 step 1 scores.

 

[rodmichael82]

Trust me, I'm as sick of seeing Dermatology threads on this forum as much as you are....and I'm a Derm resident.

I have a PhD, I like to think I'm not totally socially awkward, got around 250 step one, 20 interview offers, 15 interviews...didn't match first time around. I obviously have my own opinions about how competitive it is. N of 1, but I'll just leave it at that.

This thread is just perpetuating it. Why people don't go on about plastics, ENT, or the few others, I don't know. I actually wish people would stop making threads about how competitive Derm is. It's quite obnoxious imo.

Also, for what it's worth, I think iirc, we interveiwed around 40 people this year and about only 2 or 3 had sub-240 step 1 scores.

I completely agree with you and want to thank you for sharing your experience.

 

[DermViser]

dermviser you slut

 

[rodmichael82]

Also, for what it's worth, I think iirc, we interveiwed around 40 people this year and about only 2 or 3 had sub-240 step 1 scores.

What did the rest have? I was asking about specifics but nvm.

 

[DermViser]

Trust me, I'm as sick of seeing Dermatology threads on this forum as much as you are....and I'm a Derm resident.

I have a PhD, I like to think I'm not totally socially awkward, got around 250 step one, 20 interview offers, 15 interviews...didn't match first time around. I obviously have my own opinions about how competitive it is. N of 1, but I'll just leave it at that.

This thread is just perpetuating it. Why people don't go on about plastics, ENT, or the few others, I don't know. I actually wish people would stop making threads about how competitive Derm is. It's quite obnoxious imo.

Also, for what it's worth, I think iirc, we interveiwed around 40 people this year and about only 2 or 3 had sub-240 step 1 scores.

Yup, no one ever talks about Plastics, ENT, Urology, Ophtho, Radiology, Rad Onc, etc. it's always Derm that continues to be picked on. The same way it's a "given" that there is just no way one can go for the field and actually like learning about skin and treating skin disease.

 

[colbgw02]

I'm guessing above a 240.

 

[DermViser]

Here it is from the 2011 Outcomes:

 

[PL198]

pretty graphs

 

[DermViser]

pretty graphs

It's from 2011 Charting Outcomes of the Match, just so everyone knows what the OP is talking about.

 

[OCDEMS]

Everyone knows that the most competitive speciality in medicine is dermaneurorocket surgery. It's where you fix skin AND brains with rockets. Very selective. Not only do you need a 270+ to even be considered but the act of actually filling out ERAS is competitive. Seriously, you have to do it while running a marathon. During interviews, applicants are selected via MMA style cage matches while a group of attendings shout obscenities and throw spears.

20/30 matched applicants were previous Ultimate Fighting Champions. One was an astronaut.

 

[DermViser]

Everyone knows that the most competitive speciality in medicine is dermaneurorocket surgery. It's where you fix skin AND brains with rockets. Very selective. Not only do you need a 270+ to even be considered but the act of actually filling out ERAS is competitive. Seriously, you have to do it while running a marathon. During interviews, applicants are selected via MMA style cage matches while a group of attendings shout obscenities and throw spears.

20/30 matched applicants were previous Ultimate Fighting Champions. One was an astronaut.

It's all part of the OrthoPlasticoDermaRadiologist Games:

 

[RJGOP]

Here it is from the 2011 Outcomes:
View attachment 183625

View attachment 183626

Lol. That one guy who tried to match into Derm with a <=180 step 1 score.

 

[PL198]

Hey man it's not like I bit you or anything...

Also the graphs thing was just trolling

 

[Double A]

Lol. That one guy who tried to match into Derm with a <=180 step 1 score.

I can picture him screaming YOLO as he clicked submit.

 

[DermViser]

Also, for what it's worth, I think iirc, we interveiwed around 40 people this year and about only 2 or 3 had sub-240 step 1 scores.

I wonder how much of that is bc med students are so risk averse that they see Outcomes of the Match and bc their score isn't exactly the score or higher of those who matched (thus proving they don't know anything about confidence intervals), they just give up and move on to something else.

 

[RJGOP]

I can picture him screaming YOLO as he clicked submit.

Yeah, then he probably settled for Family Medicine.

 

[Greenberg702]

Trust me, I'm as sick of seeing Dermatology threads on this forum as much as you are....and I'm a Derm resident.

I have a PhD, I like to think I'm not totally socially awkward, got around 250 step one, 20 interview offers, 15 interviews...didn't match first time around. I obviously have my own opinions about how competitive it is. N of 1, but I'll just leave it at that.

This thread is just perpetuating it. Why people don't go on about plastics, ENT, or the few others, I don't know. I actually wish people would stop making threads about how competitive Derm is. It's quite obnoxious imo.

Also, for what it's worth, I think iirc, we interveiwed around 40 people this year and about only 2 or 3 had sub-240 step 1 scores.

Wow. Did you have derm-specific pubs?

 

[Dral]

I had a Derm pub and working on a basic science Derm project along with a few other clinical Derm projects.

Had 10 prior pubs (non Derm) in basic science including Nature middle author.

Derm is crazy.

 

[Dral]

There were people recently in the 260 range who didn't match. I know 260 isn't a free ticket to Derm, but c'mon.

 

[Greenberg702]

I had a Derm pub and working on a basic science Derm project along with a few other clinical Derm projects.

Had 10 prior pubs (non Derm) in basic science including Nature middle author.

Derm is crazy.

Holy ****. I'm guessing networking/connections with big name people matter a lot for your field.

 

[Dral]

Holy ****. I'm guessing networking/connections with big name people matter a lot for your field.

You pretty much just nailed it.

 

[DermViser]

Holy ****. I'm guessing networking/connections with big name people matter a lot for your field.

Sad, but true.

 

[starstarie]

You pretty much just nailed it.

Ya gotta play the game

 

[Ismet]

The same way it's a "given" that there is just no way one can go for the field and actually like learning about skin and treating skin disease.

I give you major props for that. I cracked open a derm textbook yesterday to try to figure out what my patient had, and I wasn't able to eat my lunch afterwards. I'm fine with blood and organs and everything, but some of the pictures in that book were too much.

 

[notbobtrustme]

I give you major props for that. I cracked open a derm textbook yesterday to try to figure out what my patient had, and I wasn't able to eat my lunch afterwards. I'm fine with blood and organs and everything, but some of the pictures in that book were too much.

just biopsy it
or give it steroids
🙂

 

[Lya]

You pretty much just nailed it.

It could sound silly, but how do you do networking especially if you are not from a renowned medical school? I'm just curious. Just rely on away rotations?

 

[graviton]

At a dermatologist's office:

It rubs the lotion on its skin or else it gets steroids again.

 

[Ismet]

just biopsy it
or give it steroids
🙂

Neither would have helped him 😛

 

[Petypet]

It could sound silly, but how do you do networking especially if you are not from a renowned medical school? I'm just curious. Just rely on away rotations?

It only takes 1 connection to get things started. Research mentor, conferences, home or away rotations, the opportunities are endless. Its about being proactive and not waiting for something to come to you.

 

[AsclepiusMD]

On SDN, unless you break 300 on the steps, are an MD/PhD from an Ivy League medical school, publish 15 papers in Science and Nature (EACH), set up 200 charity hospitals in places like Botswana, Zimbabwe, and Sudan, get higher than honors on all rotations, and get glowing letters from the deans of ALL those Ivy League medical schools (not just your own), you are doomed to a family medicine residency in South Dakota.

True story. Mt. Rushmore is pretty cool though.

 

[Psai]

You are greatly underestimating how easy it is to score well on step 1. There are many other factors like aoa, third year grades, pubs, letters of recommendation. You need to have all of these. And cherry picking numbers doesn't help anyone. Your post makes it seem like any old schmoe can make it into derm with a 235 but I've seen people with 250+, multiple pubs and great grades get a bunch of interviews and still fail to match. I believe there was someone on here who didn't match and went for another specialty that wined and dined her because she was such a fantastic applicant.

 

[danse]

You are greatly underestimating how easy it is to score well on step 1. There are many other factors like aoa, third year grades, pubs, letters of recommendation. You need to have all of these. And cherry picking numbers doesn't help anyone. Your post makes it seem like any old schmoe can make it into derm with a 235 but I've seen people with 250+, multiple pubs and great grades get a bunch of interviews and still fail to match. I believe there was someone on here who didn't match and went for another specialty that wined and dined her because she was such a fantastic applicant.

If they were interviewed and then failed to match, then it's on them, as I understand it. My stats weren't great, I'm pretty sure I got in mainly because of my interview(s).

 

[dermaway]

If they were interviewed and then failed to match, then it's on them, as I understand it. My stats weren't great, I'm pretty sure I got in mainly because of my interview(s).

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/bits-and-bobs-for-different-rotations.1080447/

you must be talking about getting into medical school... because you clearly haven't matched yet

and that is a whole different ball game and leagues easier than getting a derm spot

i think its so competitive because there is no guarantee of getting in no matter how good of an applicant you are, and this is among a group that is already self-selected because of the fear of not matching

 

[Psai]

If they were interviewed and then failed to match, then it's on them, as I understand it. My stats weren't great, I'm pretty sure I got in mainly because of my interview(s).

You got into a derm residency with not great stats?

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

I think part of the issue for derm compared to plastics (in the OP's post) - plastics has a bail-out option (gen surg). So you still have some candidates who are marginally competitive for plastics giving it a go. I think there is more self-selection for derm applicants.

 

[danse]

You got into a derm residency with not great stats?

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/bits-and-bobs-for-different-rotations.1080447/

you must be talking about getting into medical school... because you clearly haven't matched yet

and that is a whole different ball game and leagues easier than getting a derm spot

i think its so competitive because there is no guarantee of getting in no matter how good of an applicant you are, and this is among a group that is already self-selected because of the fear of not matching

My fault for not clarifying. Yes, med school, obviously. Not everyone with good stats used to get into med school - now changed due to increased class sizes, new schools, and D.O.

As you progress to higher levels of education, obviously it's going to get more selective, but the idea is still the same. If you're being interviewed, you've got a shot. What you do with it is upto you.

 

[Psai]

My fault for not clarifying. Yes, med school, obviously. While it is a whole other ball game, it used to be quite similar with med school. Not everyone with good stats used to get into med school - now changed due to increased class sizes, new schools, and D.O.

As you progress to higher levels of education, obviously it's going to get more selective, but the idea is still the same. If you're being interviewed, you've got a shot. What you do with it is upto you.

Translation: I have not participated in the match nor have I even started my application season because i am a new ms3 but I will offer my esteemed opinion on topics in which I have absolutely no experience.

You're in allo buddy. We've all been through the medical school admissions process. Residency is a totally different ball game

 

[danse]

Translation: I have not participated in the match nor have I even started my application season because i am a new ms3 but I will offer my esteemed opinion on topics in which I have absolutely no experience.

🙄 I can see you enjoy trying to put others down, and that's fine. I wish you all the best.

 

[rodmichael82]

If they were interviewed and then failed to match, then it's on them, as I understand it. My stats weren't great, I'm pretty sure I got in mainly because of my interview(s).

..

 

[BestDoctorEver]

My fault for not clarifying. Yes, med school, obviously. Not everyone with good stats used to get into med school - now changed due to increased class sizes, new schools, and D.O.

As you progress to higher levels of education, obviously it's going to get more selective, but the idea is still the same. If you're being interviewed, you've got a shot. What you do with it is upto you.

🙄 and yet the average stats of matriculated applicants keep going up.