How is Dermatology so competitive when statistics say otherwise

[danse]

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You got into Derm?

See above.

🙄 and yet the average stats keep going up.

Getting into D.O. is still surprisingly easy even if you partied more than studied in undergrad.

 

[BestDoctorEver]

See above.




Getting into D.O. is still surprisingly easy even if you partied more than studied in undergrad.

Not a DO student, but the average stats for DO (3.5 and 27 MCAT) is what the average stats for MD was 14+ years ago...

 

[Wordead]

My fault for not clarifying. Yes, med school, obviously. Not everyone with good stats used to get into med school - now changed due to increased class sizes, new schools, and D.O.

As you progress to higher levels of education, obviously it's going to get more selective, but the idea is still the same. If you're being interviewed, you've got a shot. What you do with it is upto you.

Derm apps are nowhere equivalent to med school apps. What a joke.

 

[boogaloo]

If they were interviewed and then failed to match, then it's on them, as I understand it. My stats weren't great, I'm pretty sure I got in mainly because of my interview(s).

My fault for not clarifying. Yes, med school, obviously. Not everyone with good stats used to get into med school - now changed due to increased class sizes, new schools, and D.O.

As you progress to higher levels of education, obviously it's going to get more selective, but the idea is still the same. If you're being interviewed, you've got a shot. What you do with it is upto you.

Lol.

 

[danse]

Derm apps are nowhere equivalent to med school apps. What a joke.

Nobody said they were.

Not a DO student, but the average stats for DO (3.5 and 27 MCAT) is what the average stats for MD was 14+ years ago...

A 27 MCAT was considerably harder back then, without EK et al. My first MCAT was a 28, and I am by no means a good test-taker. Test prep is so much bigger/arguably better now.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Nobody said they were.



A 27 MCAT was considerably harder back then, without EK et al. My first MCAT was a 28, and I am by no means a good test-taker. Test prep is so much bigger/arguably better now.

Yep our goal was "10/10/10" or a 30. A 27 was average and could get you in with a decent gpa.

 

[Wordead]

Nobody said they were.



A 27 MCAT was considerably harder back then, without EK et al. My first MCAT was a 28, and I am by no means a good test-taker. Test prep is so much bigger/arguably better now.

If they are not equivalent, why are you giving advice on it?

 

[danse]

If they are not equivalent, why are you giving advice on it?

Just because two things aren't the same, doesn't mean they don't function on analogous principles. I don't think I've advised anyone per se, especially since the person being spoken about is a third party. I merely offered my opinion, which was: If you've received an invitation to interview, it means your stats are good enough for them to consider you. If you received multiple interviews and didn't match, it means that you need to interview better.

 

[Greenberg702]

It could sound silly, but how do you do networking especially if you are not from a renowned medical school? I'm just curious. Just rely on away rotations?

It's a lot tougher if you're not at a top school. I'm guessing alternatives include going to a school with a good derm department or going to a mid-tier in a city with top tiers (going to Tufts/BU and networking at MGH, BWH, and BID).

 

[cn2604]

Not a DO student, but the average stats for DO (3.5 and 27 MCAT) is what the average stats for MD was 14+ years ago...

Let's be honest, any average college student can get into DO school if they wanted to. And I say this as a DO student. There weren't as many prep programs for the mcat 14+ years ago and DO schools allow grade replacement when calculating gpa.

 

[rodmichael82]

Woah guys let's chill out with the DO, medical school apps and MCAT scores.
I'd actually prefer that the admin shut this thread down. I had no intention of starting a pissing match.

 

[Dral]

If you received multiple interviews and didn't match, it means that you need to interview better.

Not always. I was interviewed at 7 med schools and got in. I interviewed at 15 Derm programs and didn't match (but did get a OT just after the match). Dermpath is probably close to Derm in terms of competitiveness. I was offered a spot at the third place I interviewed and withdrew from my other three invites.

What you say may be partially true, especially in less competitive specialties. However, in Derm, as touched upon earlier, a lot has to do with who you know.

 

[Psai]

Just because two things aren't the same, doesn't mean they don't function on analogous principles. I don't think I've advised anyone per se, especially since the person being spoken about is a third party. I merely offered my opinion, which was: If you've received an invitation to interview, it means your stats are good enough for them to consider you. If you received multiple interviews and didn't match, it means that you need to interview better.

Your opinion is worthless because you have no experience.

 

[DermViser]

It only takes 1 connection to get things started. Research mentor, conferences, home or away rotations, the opportunities are endless. Its about being proactive and not waiting for something to come to you.

Yes, that's the key here, but this doesn't just apply to Derm (not that you implied that).

 

[DermViser]

If they were interviewed and then failed to match, then it's on them, as I understand it. My stats weren't great, I'm pretty sure I got in mainly because of my interview(s).

You got into a derm residency with not great stats?

My fault for not clarifying. Yes, med school, obviously. Not everyone with good stats used to get into med school - now changed due to increased class sizes, new schools, and D.O.

As you progress to higher levels of education, obviously it's going to get more selective, but the idea is still the same. If you're being interviewed, you've got a shot. What you do with it is upto you.

Translation: I have not participated in the match nor have I even started my application season because i am a new ms3 but I will offer my esteemed opinion on topics in which I have absolutely no experience.

You're in allo buddy. We've all been through the medical school admissions process. Residency is a totally different ball game

🙄 I can see you enjoy trying to put others down, and that's fine. I wish you all the best.

 

[DermViser]

My first MCAT was a 28, and I am by no means a good test-taker. Test prep is so much bigger/arguably better now.

Wait isn't a 28 a low score? It's been a while for me.

 

[PL198]

It's all part of the OrthoPlasticoDermaRadiologist Games:

I don't understand why medical schools and their students feel the need to make these. It seems to me they think they're funny, when in my opinion, the concept of them creating these is generally more funny to me than the actual content of the video. Our school keeps up with all the fads such as harlem shake and etc and it's so annoying. It's like overkill. Trying to be fun for the students is cool, but stuff like this just annoys me.

 

[DermViser]

I don't understand why medical schools and their students feel the need to make these. It seems to me they think they're funny, when in my opinion, the concept of them creating these is generally more funny to me than the actual content of the video. Our school keeps up with all the fads such as harlem shake and etc and it's so annoying. It's like overkill. Trying to be fun for the students is cool, but stuff like this just annoys me.

I agree with you. Personally, I find some of them nauseating (Harlem Shake med school videos which I still don't get other than showing that med students can dress up in costumes and gyrate) if not a little cringeworthy

@ 0:35 - cringeworthy moment


@ 0:07 - cringeworthy moment


It's like they're trying way too hard to put on the façade of "oh we have fun in medical school too!! We don't just study all the time!!" Maybe I'm just being a douche though.

That being said there are ones, that are good, bc it either resonates well with the medical student experience or they are actually funny.

 

[PL198]

I agree with you. Personally, I find some of them nauseating (Harlem Shake med school videos which I still don't get other than showing that med students can dress up in costumes and gyrate) if not a little cringeworthy

@ 0:35


@ 0:07


It's like they're trying way too hard to put on the façade of "oh we have fun in medical school too!! We don't just study all the time!!" Maybe I'm just being a douche though.

That being said there are ones, that are good, bc it either resonates well with the medical student experience or they are actually funny.

Definitely. From my experience, all the people that do these videos are actually the stereotypical medical student that doesn't really have fun and does nothing besides school. The people that actually successfully balance school and fun don't want any part, because they're actually interested in real fun things. Also the videos usually seem ironic, because creating them is supposed to show you have fun or whatever, even though they're like passively b*tching the whole time. I watched the "no sleep till step 1" video and the whole time all I thought was " do you have anything else to complain about?"

It all just reminds me of the grandma that texts and uses like 40 emojis and then phrases like " LMAO." It's great that she's trying to keep up and be hip with the kids, but going overkill is much worse in my opinion than just retaining the traditional role successfully. I'd rather my school focus on improving the actual school than focusing on what is "hot" in social media and organizing campaigns to make our own version.

 

[DermViser]

Definitely. From my experience, all the people that do these videos are actually the stereotypical medical student that doesn't really have fun and does nothing besides school. The people that actually successfully balance school and fun don't want any part, because they're actually interested in real fun things. Also the videos usually seem ironic, because creating them is supposed to show you have fun or whatever, even though they're like passively b*tching the whole time. I watched the "no sleep till step 1" video and the whole time all I thought was " do you have anything else to complain about?"

It all just reminds me of the grandma that texts and uses like 40 emojis and then phrases like " LMAO." It's great that she's trying to keep up and be hip with the kids, but going overkill is much worse in my opinion than just retaining the traditional role successfully. I'd rather my school focus on improving the actual school than focusing on what is "hot" in social media and organizing campaigns to make our own version.

Yup, the ones who never have actual fun, are actually stunted somewhat on some level in their personal growth, or the more likely: are trying to kiss up to their medical school administration and make themselves appear more well-rounded (the same ones who consistently volunteer for student tours).

The ones that actually had fun and studied when they needed to, never participated in this bc it's all Kabuki theater for videotape and ridiculous. They go out and actually have fun (shocker!).

 

[FIREitUP]

Not always. I was interviewed at 7 med schools and got in. I interviewed at 15 Derm programs and didn't match (but did get a OT just after the match). Dermpath is probably close to Derm in terms of competitiveness. I was offered a spot at the third place I interviewed and withdrew from my other three invites.

What you say may be partially true, especially in less competitive specialties. However, in Derm, as touched upon earlier, a lot has to do with who you know.

i would argue that the interview process for a resident is much more rigorous, especially in small programs such as derm, because the people interviewing you have to work with you on a daily basis. in med school interviews there is much more room for weirdness as long as you tell them a story about your undying passion to heal the sick.

 

[BestDoctorEver]

...

 

[DermViser]

It's a lot tougher if you're not at a top school. I'm guessing alternatives include going to a school with a good derm department or going to a mid-tier in a city with top tiers (going to Tufts/BU and networking at MGH, BWH, and BID).

Well if you're going to medical school in Boston, you have no excuse not to network in some way as you have so much available to you.

 

[Awared]

It only takes 1 connection to get things started. Research mentor, conferences, home or away rotations, the opportunities are endless. Its about being proactive and not waiting for something to come to you.

How do you approach faculty for a competitive specialty as an MS1 without seeming like an ignorant gunner?

 

[Ismet]

I agree with you. Personally, I find some of them nauseating (Harlem Shake med school videos which I still don't get other than showing that med students can dress up in costumes and gyrate) if not a little cringeworthy

@ 0:35 - cringeworthy moment


@ 0:07 - cringeworthy moment


It's like they're trying way too hard to put on the façade of "oh we have fun in medical school too!! We don't just study all the time!!" Maybe I'm just being a douche though.

That being said there are ones, that are good, bc it either resonates well with the medical student experience or they are actually funny.

My class was going to do "Gunner Style" during my 1st year. Kinda glad that fell through 😛

 

[DermViser]

My class was going to do "Gunner Style" during my 1st year. Kinda glad that fell through 😛

Nothing says ironic than a bunch of medical students complaining about "gunners" (which has now gone beyond the actual, original defintion) many of whom themselves are gunners. Go figure.

 

[Kahreek]

The one who never gunned throws the first stone.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

I agree with you. Personally, I find some of them nauseating (Harlem Shake med school videos which I still don't get other than showing that med students can dress up in costumes and gyrate) if not a little cringeworthy

My med school has made videos like this for our annual formal ("med school prom") for probably 20 years. The problem is that in the age of digital media they feel the need to put them on youtube. So what used to be a private thing with a bunch of inside jokes that people are primed to find amusing at the formal (b/c they know the people involved and they are well lubricated), is now out there for public consumption.

 

[DermViser]

My med school has made videos like this for our annual formal ("med school prom") for probably 20 years. The problem is that in the age of digital media they feel the need to put them on youtube. So what used to be a private thing with a bunch of inside jokes that people are primed to find amusing at the formal (b/c they know the people involved and they are well lubricated), is now out there for public consumption.

That isn't cringeworthy to me, as the funny part of that stuff is poking fun at the idiosyncrasies of faculty members (see below from Cadaver Ball at Vanderbilt), which while outsiders may not understand, they realize they don't understand it completely bc they don't attend the school. It's still funny bc we all have professors with similar characteristics.

I'm talking about the above videos, of "300 or Family Med!!" or the "$pecialitie$" board with the throwing of dollar bills with the accompanying lyrics. For me they were cringeworthy, but that's just my personal opinion.

 

[Frazier]

Intussusception by vandy som was enjoyable and well done, IMO.

 

[ChEMD]

I don't understand why medical schools and their students feel the need to make these. It seems to me they think they're funny, when in my opinion, the concept of them creating these is generally more funny to me than the actual content of the video. Our school keeps up with all the fads such as harlem shake and etc and it's so annoying. It's like overkill. Trying to be fun for the students is cool, but stuff like this just annoys me.

It's interesting that your school actually sponsors the videos. I honestly have no problem with them because in my experience they're just done by students having a little fun and goofing around. They're fun for the students that attend the school because you actually know the people in them. I have no real desire to watch ones made by other schools because watching mediocre acting is only entertaining if you know the people and get the inside jokes.

 

[Petypet]

How do you approach faculty for a competitive specialty as an MS1 without seeming like an ignorant gunner?

Doesn't need to be for a competitive speciality. Find faculty at your med school or local mecca university and mass email 20 faculty and say, "I am an MS-1 interested in research (in XYZ) and I was wondering if you had any opportunities or openings in your lab for someone of my background. If not, I totally understand but maybe you could point me in the direction of some faculty." blah blah blah

 

[Zedor]

 

[Wordead]

Just because two things aren't the same, doesn't mean they don't function on analogous principles. I don't think I've advised anyone per se, especially since the person being spoken about is a third party. I merely offered my opinion, which was: If you've received an invitation to interview, it means your stats are good enough for them to consider you. If you received multiple interviews and didn't match, it means that you need to interview better.

There are so many things you didn't consider because you are completely unaware of what goes into offering an interview invite. In these ultra-competitive specialties, they are offering ~60 interviews for 2-5 spots; all the people interviewed are NOT on the same ground - if a chairman with pull makes that #1 call for an applicant, if an applicant did research there for awhile, and on and on. The program may in fact only have 1-2 truly "open" spots. Can you out-interview 50 other people with better stats? Furthermore, it is not remotely analogous to medical school admissions - you are not interviewed by some random PhD or MedEd minion that you can BS.

In any case, there are excellent candidates with no weaknesses in those specialties that don't match every year. And I don't mean to be rude, but your opinion is less than worthless and it is baffling that you would even give your opinion on the match process as a premed. Is it acceptable to give attendings your opinion on how to start a private practice because I have business experience? No, I don't know what goes into a medical practice.

 

[Mad Jack]

hmm? 71 % of the individuals (25/35) with 1 (Abstract or presentation or publication) matched which was almost equivalent to the applicants with 2-3 publications so I have no idea what you are talking about?

He just can't count very high, stop picking on the dude.

 

[PL198]

He just can't count very high, stop picking on the dude.

This, although I'm not really sure about that stat? Everything I've seen in the past says that derm people typically have an extraordinary amount of publications.

 

[danse]

There are so many things you didn't consider because you are completely unaware of what goes into offering an interview invite. In these ultra-competitive specialties, they are offering ~60 interviews for 2-5 spots; all the people interviewed are NOT on the same ground - if a chairman with pull makes that #1 call for an applicant, if an applicant did research there for awhile, and on and on. The program may in fact only have 1-2 truly "open" spots. Can you out-interview 50 other people with better stats? Furthermore, it is not remotely analogous to medical school admissions - you are not interviewed by some random PhD or MedEd minion that you can BS.

In any case, there are excellent candidates with no weaknesses in those specialties that don't match every year. And I don't mean to be rude, but your opinion is less than worthless and it is baffling that you would even give your opinion on the match process as a premed. Is it acceptable to give attendings your opinion on how to start a private practice because I have business experience? No, I don't know what goes into a medical practice.

And I don't mean to be rude, but it's like you're being thick on purpose. Most of your posts that I glanced over seem well reasoned. I can only assume you're fatigued. Either way, I'm moving on from this unpleasantness.

 

[PL198]

And I don't mean to be rude, but it's like you're being thick on purpose. Most of your posts that I glanced over seem well reasoned.

Just because you get an interview doesn't mean you're on the same level as everyone else. It just means you meet the minimum criteria needed for them to be interested in interviewing you. I don't really know of any job where getting the interview somehow means you're on par with all other candidates. Med school is full of academics that are looking for a sob story to endorse. Honestly finding a reason to cry in your interview about some tragedy in your life is probably the best thing one could do to help their chances... Try this in front of a PD, who actually has a program to staff, and they're gonna be like " wtf are you serious?"

 

[VisionaryTics]

And I don't mean to be rude, but it's like you're being thick on purpose. Most of your posts that I glanced over seem well reasoned. I can only assume you're fatigued. Either way, I'm moving on from this unpleasantness.

As someone who just matched to a residency comparably competitive to dermatology, I agreed with his post 100%.

What do you bring to the table, friendo?

 

[DermViser]

And I don't mean to be rude, but it's like you're being thick on purpose. Most of your posts that I glanced over seem well reasoned. I can only assume you're fatigued. Either way, I'm moving on from this unpleasantness.

😕

 

[danse]

As someone who just matched to a residency comparably competitive to dermatology, I agreed with his post 100%.

What do you bring to the table, friendo?

I don't usually disagree with much of what he says. He's extrapolating things that aren't there from what I've said and missing facts completely. He claims that I said Med school admissions and the Match were the same. He goes on to say that I offered advice, when I didn't. Then, he states the obvious in that the ultra-competitive spots are ultra-competitive, when that is in no way relevant to the single point I made. It's evident from earlier posts within this thread that I'm MS-3, but he insists on calling me pre-med. That's why I thought he was a little tired, perhaps.

I'm just responding to you out of courtesy. What I bring to the table is my pedigree (edit: by this I mean that while I am hopelessly ignorant of many things about med school, the one thing I am overly familiar is the mentality of PDs in competitive specialties. The way this thread was going, I was sure someone would misinterpret it). I won't be revisiting this topic.

 

[DermViser]

I don't usually disagree with much of what he says. He's extrapolating things that aren't there from what I've said and missing facts completely. He claims that I said Med school admissions and the Match were the same. He goes on to say that I offered advice, when I didn't. Then, he states the obvious in that the ultra-competitive spots are ultra-competitive, when that is in no way relevant to the single point I made. It's evident from earlier posts within this thread that I'm MS-3, but he insists on calling me pre-med. That's why I thought he was a little tired, perhaps.

I'm just responding to you out of courtesy. What I bring to the table is my pedigree (edit: by this I mean that while I am hopelessly ignorant of many things about med school, the one thing I am overly familiar is the mentality of PDs in competitive specialties. The way this thread was going, I was sure someone would misinterpret it). I won't be revisiting this topic.

 

[Psai]

And I don't mean to be rude, but it's like you're being thick on purpose. Most of your posts that I glanced over seem well reasoned. I can only assume you're fatigued. Either way, I'm moving on from this unpleasantness.

Just wow

 

[evilbooyaa]

Glad everyone slammed danse's post so I didn't have to waste energy doing it myself.

Derm gets a lot of hate b/c it's considered a lifestyle specialty and everyone that's not in derm goes "if it's wet make it dry, if its dry make it wet, lololol" or "steroids, steroids, and more steroids. maybe a biopsy". I know that 1) I don't know jack about dermatology, and thus cannot judge the residents in the field (besides the fact that they generally rocked medical school) and 2) I'm sure as hell glad they're willing to do it, because I do not want to deal with anything but the most minor of dermatologic diseases.

 

[DermViser]

Just wow

How does the saying go: Always wrong but never in doubt?

 

[Winged Scapula]

How does the saying go: Always wrong but never in doubt?

"Often wrong, never in doubt"; usually said about surgeons.

 

[anbuitachi]

it depends on what school you go to. many lower ranked schools take their own students more likely than outside students. connections and school plays a big role in those w/ lower scores i believe.

 

[DermViser]

it depends on what school you go to. many lower ranked schools take their own students more likely than outside students. connections and school plays a big role in those w/ lower scores i believe.

That is true. Many lower ranked med schools (and hence lower ranked derm programs) aren't able to capture the top of those applying for derm, so they're much more likely to look toward their own. Hence if you look at the bar graph of those with lower scores but are able to get a match.