How is it like, married to a female physician?

[Knight_MD]

How is it like, being a physician who is also married to a female physician?

I'm still a couple of years behind the whole marriage plans. But I feel that I cannot communicate well with anyone non-medical. The ideas, and way of thinking is severely affected by years of studying medicine. At the same time, I worry that the lifestyle of a female physician may not accomodate marriage, kids..etc. And that maybe it would be dull not to have some vareity in marital life.

However, the thought of having someone at home who would actually understand you when you talk about ur work, interesting cases, medical and surgical hopes for the future, is pretty nice indeed. And being a young physician, talking about work maybe pretty much most of the talk you have with ur spouse...

I want to know the opinion of those married to female doctors, and those who have non-medical spouses. Any regrets, pearls of wisdom...etc?

Thanks.

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[mysophobe]

Make sure she's somebody that enjoys talking about work (if she is a physician or in the medical field). Lots of people don't want to talk about work once they leave the hospital, so don't assume that just because she's a doc she'll want to discuss ITP at a BBQ.

 

[Knight_MD]

🙄

Well not hardcore medical talk, but more of a general work discussion. Mind you I'm aiming for a surgical residency, so work hours will make 'work' most probably a general topic of discussion...

 

[mysophobe]

No, I'm serious. I know many people that refuse to talk about medicine at all outside of the hospital. That includes things that happened while in the hospital that are not directly related to doctoring. They just don't want to bring it into the home.

 

[skypilot]

No, I'm serious. I know many people that refuse to talk about medicine at all outside of the hospital. That includes things that happened while in the hospital that are not directly related to doctoring. They just don't want to bring it into the home.

Those people are awesome. The last thing you want to hear about outside of the hospital is medicine.

 

[mysophobe]

Haha. Not me. I love talking about it pretty much anytime of the day. I'll happily talk about something else, but I'm definitely not against discussing work/medicine at the table.

 

[skypilot]

We call it "shoptalk" and it can definitely be annoying for anyone non medical who is within earshot. I noticed people grow out of it as their careers progress. I guess we are so obscessed with medicine in the beginning of our careers we don't have anything else to talk about. 🙂

 

[mdnsw]

How is it like, being a physician who is also married to a female physician?

I'm still a couple of years behind the whole marriage plans. But I feel that I cannot communicate well with anyone non-medical. The ideas, and way of thinking is severely affected by years of studying medicine. At the same time, I worry that the lifestyle of a female physician may not accomodate marriage, kids..etc. And that maybe it would be dull not to have some vareity in marital life.

However, the thought of having someone at home who would actually understand you when you talk about ur work, interesting cases, medical and surgical hopes for the future, is pretty nice indeed. And being a young physician, talking about work maybe pretty much most of the talk you have with ur spouse...

I want to know the opinion of those married to female doctors, and those who have non-medical spouses. Any regrets, pearls of wisdom...etc?

Thanks.

Yeah. IF you actually ever saw each other she'd understand your work. Woopty-f'ing-do. I'd rather have a wife who's actually around than one who knows about medicine. You could go for both with a nurse, but I'd stay the heck away from lady docs (except psych, derm, and such).

 

[tiredmom]

My husband is non-medical... but we were married with kids before med school, so he was part of the decisions from the beginning and knew what he was getting into (I was an RN prior to med school). He occasionally gets frustrated with the medical talk and I try to keep it at a minimum, but he also gets me overwhelmed with his accounting/office politics talk. I think it ends up going both ways. I saw a stat somewhere that said most female docs marry another physician, which is not true for male doctors.

 

[dobonedoc]

It may be nice to have something in common to discuss, but think about widening your own horizons just a bit. I'm married to a non medical person, and benefit greatly from her ideas and thoughts. I get plenty of medicine at the hospital, and while she is not against discussing medical topics and stories, together we have many other interesting things in our lives.

Also, you got to think about future kids. Most married couples do have a child at some point-in-time. The biological offspring of a 2-physician union would be almost certainly screwed from the beginning. First, they would grow up knowing that every person in this world is out to screw them; either by not paying for any services ever rendered, or by looking for every opportunity to drag them to court, or both. Also, consider trying to learn to speak English (presuming that is your native language) in acronyms. Dinner conversation would be something like this: "I got a CBC ASAP to Dx ITP, but was shocked when the PT/INR PTT suggested DIC . . . " Or always wondering what PT said, Did she have a BM? How 'bout that MMT or D&C? 😴

Finally, you would have no chance of ever finding friends in the outside world who were not involved in medicine. Your future will always revolve around hospital department holiday parties, and summer softball games with the surgeons squaring-off against some other group. And what are the chances you'll both be off together on holidays or weekends?

I say treat medicine as a job. Work hard, and have fun. But at the end of the day, let it go! Enjoy what life (medicine does NOT have to be your life) has to offer.

 

[DOnut]

Well, I'm married to a physician, and we have a kid, and we're both residents 😱 (or will be starting next week). It's been great, however my wife and I are not newbies. We've been married for 7 years and have gone through undergrad, grad and medical school together.

I guess when you have been together as long as we have, and have been students together as long as we have, things just work. We both enjoy talking about work, but usually just the stories that are too damn funny not to talk about. It is nice to be able to tell a story without haveing to think, "do they understand a word I'm saying?"

But you also both have to have a life. Be able to enjoy something together that has NOTHING to do with medicine WHAT-SO-EVER!!! Our son pretty much consumes that role. Being Daddy is definitely the best part of my day, even if I do get an IJ, 2 LP's and an intubation in one shift.

 

[outofhere]

I have mixed feelings about threads the discuss 'female docs' and their personal lives, as if we are all one and the same. Just like male docs, some of them will forever put their careers and billing ahead of their families, some female docs will do the same. And just like their are guy physicians who just want to make enough money and raise kids, there are gal physicians who want that too. WE ARE NOT ALL THE SAME!
Having said that, it is important to consider WHO you are actually in a relationship with. Is this person interested in anything other than medicine? How does this person talk about work? How do you communicate? What do you do for fun?
I am a psychiatry resident, almost done with residency, and I married a computer guy. We have a toddler. I love telling my husband the ins and outs of medicine- and he loves the ridiculousness of my life. I have made a point for him to meet my colleagues, and we hang out with some of them ever so often. I don't tell him the confidential stuff, of course, but there is so much more to say than just cbc/chem 7...etc, I tell him, this attending said this, and that resident is going blah, blah, blah. And I listen to my husband tell me stories about his office. We enjoy knowing what is going on at work for each other- because we do spend so much time at work. My husband is very hands-on, and therefore residency with a child has been manageable. Nonetheless, I am so looking forward to finishing. I plan on getting a part-time job. And all in all, my husband had to bear the grunt of my training up front, but when I am done, I can work 20 hours a week and make plenty of money, and there will be sick people anywhere, so that we can move should his career require us to. What other job would allow me to do that with ease?

 

[Faebinder]

Yeah. IF you actually ever saw each other she'd understand your work. Woopty-f'ing-do. I'd rather have a wife who's actually around than one who knows about medicine. You could go for both with a nurse, but I'd stay the heck away from lady docs.

I and my wife are both docs... I completely agree with what is said above. I think my wife gets more out of it than I do... I hate talking about medicine outside the hospital.... she loves to discuss it... It's always puts me on the edge. You come home to run away from the hospital hell only to be trapped by the wife talking about how xyz happened in her time in the hospital..

Then there is the arguments about who does more around the house and who needs to take care of the bills etc etc etc (awful at the residet stage when you can barely afford to live.) And to complicate matters... we got 1 kid. I feel so awful for her.. truly...My dad was much better with me than I will ever be able to be with her. 🙁

 

[sophiejane]

But I feel that I cannot communicate well with anyone non-medical.

And being a young physician, talking about work maybe pretty much most of the talk you have with ur spouse...

These two statements are the root of your problem. That is the bad news. The good news is that you will (hopefully) grow out of it and learn to communicate well with lots of different people on lots of different topics, and you will one day have a relationship with someone that you enjoy discussing all sorts of things with.

The problem is that the way you achieve this is by LIVING LIFE OUTSIDE OF MEDICINE. Which is something a lot of people never learn to do, sadly.

My best advice would be to learn to salsa dance, skydive, scuba dive, make sushi, speak French or Russian or Urdu. Read fiction. Travel!!! Go to movies, plays, rock concerts, the symphony, museums, the zoo. Follow politics. Follow sports.

Whatever. Just live, and have some fun. And yes, you can do these things and still be a successful physician. In fact doing these things will probably make you a better physician because they will make you a happier and more well-rounded human being.

There's so much to life beyond work. If you can get that now and do something about it, I promise your future will be a lot happier, no matter who you marry.

 

[Mirror Form]

No, I'm serious. I know many people that refuse to talk about medicine at all outside of the hospital. That includes things that happened while in the hospital that are not directly related to doctoring. They just don't want to bring it into the home.

I always found that strange. I think it's a sign of really not liking your work. People who are excited about what they do usually want to talk about it.

 

[Knight_MD]

We call it "shoptalk" and it can definitely be annoying for anyone non medical who is within earshot. I noticed people grow out of it as their careers progress. I guess we are so obscessed with medicine in the beginning of our careers we don't have anything else to talk about. 🙂

Exactly. Now wouldn't a young physician like to be married to someone in medicine, to be able to have this 'shoptalk' anytime?

My biggest fear is, to be able to communicate with my male and female co-workers better than my wife. I wouldn't want any 'if only' thoughts to creep into my mind...

I saw a stat somewhere that said most female docs marry another physician, which is not true for male doctors.

All female doctors I know are married to physicians as well.
And also almost all the young doctors I know are married to female physicians too.

Seeing that, it made me concerned about whether or not no-one will communicate with a doctor, better than someone in medicine too. Not only in 'shoptalk', but in how they perceive problems and find solutions for them, realizing the hardships of the career 1st hand, tolerating the working hours..etc.

Finally, you would have no chance of ever finding friends in the outside world who were not involved in medicine. Your future will always revolve around hospital department holiday parties, and summer softball games with the surgeons squaring-off against some other group. And what are the chances you'll both be off together on holidays or weekends?

Well that doesn't seem so bad or unnatural 🙂 And that's already what's happening with me as an undergrad. I play soccer with my hospital mates, go movies with them, outings, trips.. etc. When I'm training at a new hospital, it's far easier to talk to a complete stranger student than it is with a non-medical friend I've known for a much longer time.

I am a psychiatry resident, almost done with residency, and I married a computer guy. We have a toddler. I love telling my husband the ins and outs of medicine- and he loves the ridiculousness of my life. I have made a point for him to meet my colleagues, and we hang out with some of them ever so often. I don't tell him the confidential stuff, of course, but there is so much more to say than just cbc/chem 7...etc, I tell him, this attending said this, and that resident is going blah, blah, blah. And I listen to my husband tell me stories about his office. We enjoy knowing what is going on at work for each other- because we do spend so much time at work. My husband is very hands-on, and therefore residency with a child has been manageable. Nonetheless, I am so looking forward to finishing. I plan on getting a part-time job. And all in all, my husband had to bear the grunt of my training up front, but when I am done, I can work 20 hours a week and make plenty of money, and there will be sick people anywhere, so that we can move should his career require us to. What other job would allow me to do that with ease?

Now this is the other side of the argument I was talking about. The beauty of having variety in life with a partner who leads a totally different career. And the working hours fit like a glove as well. However, I fear this experience wouldn't be applicable with a male surgeon who has killer working hours and loves to talk about his job...

Plus, sounds like u have a quite charming tolerant husband on ur hands 😉

I and my wife are both docs... I completely agree with what is said above. I think my wife gets more out of it than I do... I hate talking about medicine outside the hospital.... she loves to discuss it... It's always puts me on the edge. You come home to run away from the hospital hell only to be trapped by the wife talking about how xyz happened in her time in the hospital..

Then there is the arguments about who does more around the house and who needs to take care of the bills etc etc etc (awful at the residet stage when you can barely afford to live.) And to complicate matters... we got 1 kid. I feel so awful for her.. truly...My dad was much better with me than I will ever be able to be with her.

Well now ur a doctor and u don't like to listen about medical stuff at home. Imagine if you weren't a doctor... how awful would that have been? At least you understand what's going on and don't have trouble imagining different situations..etc

And don't worry this resident stage is a phase that will move on and will eventually get better from there on. I really wanted to get married midway thru residency, however, I've read many posts that advised against that, saying how the pay is low and the working hours can barely accomodate marriage...etc.

The problem is that the way you achieve this is by LIVING LIFE OUTSIDE OF MEDICINE. Which is something a lot of people never learn to do, sadly.

The thing is, living life outside medicine (which one loves) is unavoidable, even if you want to. You attend lectures and lessons for years with the same people. Then u attend rotations in the hospital with the same people. Then you come back home to study and revise what these same people are studying, and you face the same problems and think about the same solutions...etc. Now after all these years spent interacting and thinking alike with these same medical people, wouldn't it only make sense to marry one as well?

I guess when you have been together as long as we have, and have been students together as long as we have, things just work. We both enjoy talking about work, but usually just the stories that are too damn funny not to talk about. It is nice to be able to tell a story without haveing to think, "do they understand a word I'm saying?"

That's it...

🙄 I don't think other professions (i.e. non-medical) have this same partner thinking/communication issue that sometimes necessitates u marry someone in ur same line of work... One of the plagues of medicine if u ask me.

 

[4424]

Exactly. Now wouldn't a young physician like to be married to someone in medicine, to be able to have this 'shoptalk' anytime?

My biggest fear is, to be able to communicate with my male and female co-workers better than my wife. I wouldn't want any 'if only' thoughts to creep into my mind...


All female doctors I know are married to physicians as well.
And also almost all the young doctors I know are married to female physicians too.

Seeing that, it made me concerned about whether or not no-one will communicate with a doctor, better than someone in medicine too. Not only in 'shoptalk', but in how they perceive problems and find solutions for them, realizing the hardships of the career 1st hand, tolerating the working hours..etc.


Well that doesn't seem so bad or unnatural 🙂 And that's already what's happening with me as an undergrad. I play soccer with my hospital mates, go movies with them, outings, trips.. etc. When I'm training at a new hospital, it's far easier to talk to a complete stranger student than it is with a non-medical friend I've known for a much longer time.


Now this is the other side of the argument I was talking about. The beauty of having variety in life with a partner who leads a totally different career. And the working hours fit like a glove as well. However, I fear this experience wouldn't be applicable with a male surgeon who has killer working hours and loves to talk about his job...

Plus, sounds like u have a quite charming tolerant husband on ur hands 😉




Well now ur a doctor and u don't like to listen about medical stuff at home. Imagine if you weren't a doctor... how awful would that have been? At least you understand what's going on and don't have trouble imagining different situations..etc

And don't worry this resident stage is a phase that will move on and will eventually get better from there on. I really wanted to get married midway thru residency, however, I've read many posts that advised against that, saying how the pay is low and the working hours can barely accomodate marriage...etc.


The thing is, living life outside medicine (which one loves) is unavoidable, even if you want to. You attend lectures and lessons for years with the same people. Then u attend rotations in the hospital with the same people. Then you come back home to study and revise what these same people are studying, and you face the same problems and think about the same solutions...etc. Now after all these years spent interacting and thinking alike with these same medical people, wouldn't it only make sense to marry one as well?


That's it...

🙄 I don't think other professions (i.e. non-medical) have this same partner thinking/communication issue that sometimes necessitates u marry someone in ur same line of work... One of the plagues of medicine if u ask me.

i guess it sort of depends on what you are like (not meant in a bad way). i'm the type of person who loves medicine but there are many things outside of medicine that i enjoy as well. i have enough friends that discuss medicine and when i come home (to someone not in medicine) i enjoy that. it keeps me balanced i think. sure there are times i wish he understood how hard things are but more times than not i enjoy separating my work and my life.

 

[sophiejane]

Call me crazy, but I still believe in marrying for love, not occupation.

It worked for me (a female soon-to-be physician married to a computer guy who couldn't be more supportive or interested in what I do).

We have great conversations, too. 😉

 

[LADoc00]

How is it like, being a physician who is also married to a female physician?

I'm still a couple of years behind the whole marriage plans. But I feel that I cannot communicate well with anyone non-medical. The ideas, and way of thinking is severely affected by years of studying medicine. At the same time, I worry that the lifestyle of a female physician may not accomodate marriage, kids..etc. And that maybe it would be dull not to have some vareity in marital life.

However, the thought of having someone at home who would actually understand you when you talk about ur work, interesting cases, medical and surgical hopes for the future, is pretty nice indeed. And being a young physician, talking about work maybe pretty much most of the talk you have with ur spouse...

I want to know the opinion of those married to female doctors, and those who have non-medical spouses. Any regrets, pearls of wisdom...etc?

Thanks.

Ive never married a female doc but been in long term (ish) relationships with several. It usually is always bad in my opinion. I know for the most part most male docs who have been around the block feel as I do. Lots reasons ranging from competiveness, petty jealous, inability to talk about anything but medicine, incessant whining that they worked harder than me but I made more money..I think the complaining was the worst, these women thought since I was also a doc somewhere I would empathize with their issues at work and always take their side....also, the absolute worst for me was being curbsided for freebie consultations with the old SO, I was expected to drop everything to take care of their patients' cases, which I considered unethical (also they expected me to do it for free! insult upon injury). Also I personally never ever talk about work once I leave unless its to relate a humorous story or in some rare situation I might need outside input. I cant imagine going home and chatting about novel antibody-based cancer therapies anymore, in fact the thought of it sends a chill down my spine!

Run, forest, run.

 

[Knight_MD]

Call me crazy, but I still believe in marrying for love, not occupation.

It worked for me (a female soon-to-be physician married to a computer guy who couldn't be more supportive or interested in what I do).

We have great conversations, too.

Believe me so do I... but the fear of misunderstanding killing love is overwhelming...

Plus I believe it's totally different when the physician side is the male.... I mean I know many female colleagues engaged to engineers etc.

Ive never married a female doc but been in long term (ish) relationships with several. It usually is always bad in my opinion. I know for the most part most male docs who have been around the block feel as I do. Lots reasons ranging from competiveness, petty jealous, inability to talk about anything but medicine, incessant whining that they worked harder than me but I made more money..I think the complaining was the worst, these women thought since I was also a doc somewhere I would empathize with their issues at work and always take their side....also, the absolute worst for me was being curbsided for freebie consultations with the old SO, I was expected to drop everything to take care of their patients' cases, which I considered unethical (also they expected me to do it for free! insult upon injury).

Interesting. I never thought of it that way.
I agree about the possibility of jealousness and competitiveness. And expectations to empathize. If these were to happen, they'd be worse than any mild misunderstanding I'm fearing.

Was it better when u were with someone non-medical?

 

[LADoc00]

Believe me so do I... but the fear of misunderstanding killing love is overwhelming...

Plus I believe it's totally different when the physician side is the male.... I mean I know many female colleagues engaged to engineers etc.


Interesting. I never thought of it that way.
I agree about the possibility of jealousness and competitiveness. And expectations to empathize. If these were to happen, they'd be worse than any mild misunderstanding I'm fearing.

Was it better when u were with someone non-medical?

Hmm rereading my response it sounds a bit misogynistic...My point was being with another physician really brought out the worst in both of us, not that there is an inherent pysch. issue with all female docs(although with some there certainly is).

Yes, with non-medical ladies it is vastly better. I really toned down my talking about work after hours, development more outside interests and expanded myself far far more once I broke out medical-type relationships.

 

[CNphair]

My point was being with another physician really brought out the worst in both of us, not that there is an inherent pysch. issue with all female docs(although with some there certainly is).

I think there is an inherent psych issue with many docs of both sexes. You don't have to browse through SDN's forums very long to see evidence of that...

I am a female doc who looked for a non-medical spouse. Most docs have a competitive nature and I don't think it would work well in a relationship. I also didn't want to juggle two call schedules, malpractice fees, insurance issues, etc if I did not have to...that was my ideal anyway. Not to say I would not have married a doctor if I fell in love - I just tried hard to avoid such a situation.

That said, there is a CT surgeon married to a neurosurgeon at my institution. They have 3 kids, lots of nannies and have been married 15 + years. So, it can work if you want it to...

 

[Knight_MD]

...lots of nannies...

Not good. Another thing I'm fearing, 2 physicians not being able to accomodate kids responsibilities...etc.

 

[Wifty]

I am one of those non-doc spouses, and I have to tell you, my hubby and I have a 9 year relationship (over 7 years married) that many of our friends envy.

Mostly, we are both intelligent and interested in each other and each others life. That is what is of prime importance. I don't think that there has ever been a time when he has talked to me and I have had no interest or no understanding of what he is talking about. Of course, medical things interest me.....so that might be a difference between me and other spouses.

I know of plenty of doc/non-doc relationships that are not going well.....but often, the people are not really in love and they are in the relationship for the wrong reason in the first place (looks/money).

I also know physician couples that have children, and the children are being raised by a nanny. So, if that is important to you......a non-doc would probably be more ideal. However, we have close friends where they are both docs and after residency, they plan on both working part-time so that one can be home with the children at all times. Just a thought.

I promise that when you find someone that you really love and that really loves you.....this will be a mute point. She will either understand everything you say, or understand enough to have a conversation, that you will be satisfied.

With smiles and good luck,
Wifty

 

[Elysium]

The thought of talking about medicine all the time makes me want to stab a pencil in my eye. What a bunch of pretenious assclowns, sitting around talking about all their "interesting cases". "Ummm, yes, I saw a very interesting presentation of hematochezia today." I mean, get real. My SO and I are both in medicine and I honestly can't imagine discussing it when we're at home relaxing. Instead we talk about our dog, books, movies, politics, ultimate fighting/mixed martial arts, funny stuff on TV, what to have for dinner, how we wish we could already be retired even though we haven't really started working yet. Etc. Very, very occasionally he might bring up something that happened at the hospital, but it has to be pretty funny/unusual for that to happen.

Believe it or not, there is a life beyond medicine. You're going to want to share your life with someone who has similar interests, but one of those interests doesn't have to be medicine. There is so much more to life than this, even though it may be hard to believe right now.

 

[Knight_MD]

Thanx Wifty 🙂 I totally agree with what you said, and wish you all due happiness.

The thought of talking about medicine all the time makes me want to stab a pencil in my eye. What a bunch of pretenious assclowns, sitting around talking about all their "interesting cases". "Ummm, yes, I saw a very interesting presentation of hematochezia today." I mean, get real. My SO and I are both in medicine and I honestly can't imagine discussing it when we're at home relaxing. Instead we talk about our dog, books, movies, politics, ultimate fighting/mixed martial arts, funny stuff on TV, what to have for dinner, how we wish we could already be retired even though we haven't really started working yet. Etc. Very, very occasionally he might bring up something that happened at the hospital, but it has to be pretty funny/unusual for that to happen.

Believe it or not, there is a life beyond medicine. You're going to want to share your life with someone who has similar interests, but one of those interests doesn't have to be medicine. There is so much more to life than this, even though it may be hard to believe right now.

Well Elysium, I'm talking about mentality, understanding, and preceiving issues. Not 'medical talk' per se.

Who on earth would fancy talking about hematochezia on dinner 🙂

Maybe, maybe, subconciously, this mutual understanding on life views you enjoy with ur doc wife, is the result of you both being in the same career, have the same thinking and most likely have many traits in common?

That -what you said- is what I'm talking about. Similar personalities are more likely to persue the same career, and in medicine, this career in particular may have a 'moulding effect' on one's personality.

Couldn't this be one of the main reasons behind this mutual understanding u enjoy?

 

[RuralMedicine]

I think first and foremost you have to follow your heart. I've seen strong dual physician marriages (and have a good friend who is the product of a dual physician marriage--he's a happy and well adjusted guy) and disastrous physician non-physician unions. I think it more comes down to finding someone that you love more than you can sometimes express but that understands what you can't put into words, that you respect and trust, and that you can communicate with on multiple levels. When you find that person recognize that strong relationships are always works in progress (even after marriage) and pray that you'll be fortunate enough to grow old together. Unfortunately prayers aren't always answered as we think we would want (although I still believe that this all happens for a reason albeit one I don't understand) and sometimes until death do us part comes sooner than intended.

As far as talking about medicine outside of the hospital I think it really depends on what you're talking about and why. S and I definitely talked about my life and how I practiced medicine but our conversations more focused around my struggles and my growth as a young physician, my concerns about patients and my colleagues, some of my perspectives on the changing health care delivery system etc. If I had been in another career I suspect we would have had similar conversations (obviously with different context). We never discussed how to manage ACS, or how to troubleshoot an IJ in the 300 pound patient, or details that would identify patients specifically. S supported me and part of supporting me was supporting me as a physician. I wouldn't consider the conversations we had "shop talk". I would consider it sharing my life with someone I truly loved. Medicine was/ is a part of my life so it made sense to talk about it just like we discussed running, or playing handbells, the fact that you really can whip dinner together in twenty minutes, how much children mattered to both of us, and many of our views on child rearing [side note: if these don't line up and one or more of you want children then this is a huge red flag--if you can't work through these differences you're potentially setting yourselves and children up for years of misery, not a great idea from my perspective]

Ok I think I've rambled enough now. I guess I go back to follow your heart and appreciate the people you're blessed with in your life. Sometimes angels only touch our hearts for moments but those moments forever shape our lives.

 

[drbon]

Well, I'm married to a physician, and we have a kid, and we're both residents 😱 (or will be starting next week). It's been great, however my wife and I are not newbies. We've been married for 7 years and have gone through undergrad, grad and medical school together.

I guess when you have been together as long as we have, and have been students together as long as we have, things just work. We both enjoy talking about work, but usually just the stories that are too damn funny not to talk about. It is nice to be able to tell a story without haveing to think, "do they understand a word I'm saying?"

But you also both have to have a life. Be able to enjoy something together that has NOTHING to do with medicine WHAT-SO-EVER!!! Our son pretty much consumes that role. Being Daddy is definitely the best part of my day, even if I do get an IJ, 2 LP's and an intubation in one shift.

Hey DOnut, or anyone else that wants to put their 2 cents in....
My husband and I just got married, we're both 3rd years, and we're trying to figure out when's the best time to plan on having a kid. honestly, i'd rather it be sooner than later.....any advice??

 

[Elysium]

Thanx Wifty 🙂 I totally agree with what you said, and wish you all due happiness.


Well Elysium, I'm talking about mentality, understanding, and preceiving issues. Not 'medical talk' per se.

Who on earth would fancy talking about hematochezia on dinner 🙂

Maybe, maybe, subconciously, this mutual understanding on life views you enjoy with ur doc wife, is the result of you both being in the same career, have the same thinking and most likely have many traits in common?

That -what you said- is what I'm talking about. Similar personalities are more likely to persue the same career, and in medicine, this career in particular may have a 'moulding effect' on one's personality.

Couldn't this be one of the main reasons behind this mutual understanding u enjoy?

Just to let you know, I'm reading your post in a very highbrow British accent. I quite like the UK, so that's a good thing.

We really don't have similar personalities, per se, and I don't really think that medicine as a career has moulded us particularily either. Before we were in medicine he was a ChemE engineer and I was in film. The one thing we have in common is that we want a stable, relatively lucrative profession that will allow us to retire early. He wants to work for 10-15 years and put my salary (around 80,000) in retirement. Then we get out after our loans are paid off and just try to write, read, travel, spend time with family, etc. At the end of the day, your job doesn't love you back, your family does. I'm looking at the big picture, and medicine is just a sliver of it.

 

[f_w]

Doc-doc relationship here.

It does have its advantages, particularly during residency/fellowship. A spouse who has 'been there' won't have a difficult time understanding if one or the other comes home after a bad day and either wants to talk, or not (bad day in the sense of patients you take care of going down the drain). Also neither of us ever heard anything of the 'why do you spend so much time at the office' talk. If both spouses are in 'the business', a pager going off during dinner is not going to get you a disappointed look. Patient needs care, you go, end of discussion. This is not to say that a intelligent and understanding non-medical spouse won't be able to understand these things, but it seems to be a sticking point in a lot of the med-nonmed relationships I observed from the outside over the years.

The downside is that your life gets fairly complicated. Coordinating residencies/fellowships/1st attending jobs can be difficult and there has to be a give and take from both sides. It is unlikely that both parties will find that 'perfect job' or the 'perfect residency' in the same town. You have to be willing to be flexible, e.g. by commuting for a couple of years if necessary.

Once you have kids, things get really interesting. In jest, I have told my wife at times that life would have been so much easier if I had just married a physical therapist (she then gently reminds me of the years that I lived off her attending salary while still a resident and we leave it at that). You have to be willing to pay for professional childcare. Patching together your kids care with 3 different Au-Pairs who change every year is not going to give them the degree of constancy that helps to keep em from turning into spoiled monsters.

 

[piercj2]

The fact of the matter is, most people now days do not even know themselves well enough to have a successful marriage, or truly know the needs and desires of another person. People, look around you, there are internet sites built soley for the purpose of having affairs that are making thousands of dallars everyday, one and two marriages fail- and that is not even counting the marriages that are totally miserable or the ones were one spouse is commiting adultury and the other does not know it, cohabition is on the rise, marrying ages are up and marrying rates are down, along with more people being single or seperated. For the most part, we live in a society will people are satisfied with fullfilling thier own desires at no matter what the cost. If this were not the case you woule not see the amount of hatred envolved in divorce settlements(between spouses), the amount of people whom are sinle, and the way that so many marriages turn out. And most problems don't start in a marriage until both of the parners or working-not in mecial school, residency, ect. The mommd forums has some good stories about how doctor on doctor relationships turn out. The forum is more personable and people are more willing to discuss private aspects of thier lives. It is amazing how little people know and care about eachother in some marraiges

 

[f_w]

Dude, your post is unreadable.

 

[outofhere]

Just for kicks.
I think doc-doc unions are far less complicated than two academic professors. I have known professors that CANNOT get tenure positions in the same STATE! There are so few positions for 'Japanese art historian,' you know? In that light, doc-doc marriages don't seem so impossible.

 

[NonTradMed]

Just for kicks.
I think doc-doc unions are far less complicated than two academic professors. I have known professors that CANNOT get tenure positions in the same STATE! There are so few positions for 'Japanese art historian,' you know? In that light, doc-doc marriages don't seem so impossible.

And that's one reason I kinda like my chosen profession---it allows me more flexiblity on where I can work (well, more than academic professors anyway).

I've always dated guys who were in the same profession as me. And we typically don't talk shop outside of school/work. I can't imagine how dating another physician would be any different.

The only problem with dating another doc is problem of having two high powered careers in one household. I'm not sure how one can accommdate that AND raise kids and not go insane. Funny enough, I see plenty of examples of two incomed couples with busy careers and most of their kids turn out fine. My own parents had pretty busy careers, especially when I was a young child (rare for the 80's where I lived), but they managed fine. So I guess it's doable.

Also, it could be a cultural thing, but having a nanny or a nonparental caretaker is not considered bad in Chinese culture (or the version I reside in). My maternal grandmother was primary caretaker for all her grandkids until the kids went to school. Ditto on dad's side. It's very common in China for urban families to have grandparents do the primary caretaking while kids are young. My own mother had no qualms with hiring a nanny for a brief period of my babyhood. My family's pretty close, so no horrible thing befell anyone for having less than motherly love tending to their diapers. So I figure, I'm not going to care too much if I need to ask my own mother to babysit my kid or hire a nanny.

My biggest problem would be how do we get the same weekends/holidays off together with two docs? That's why I'm ambivalent about dating anyone with an all consuming career. I don't want an all consuming career, so I'll have to be careful about what residency I pick. However, if my hubby had a demanding job, I'd be left with most of the household management and I think that makes for a poor family life. I'm actually hoping to meet a nondoc, someone who is smart but who is focused on family. So no surgeons, IB or high powered lawyers for me. 😀

 

[outofhere]

And that's one reason I kinda like my chosen profession---it allows me more flexiblity on where I can work (well, more than academic professors anyway).

I've always dated guys who were in the same profession as me. And we typically don't talk shop outside of school/work. I can't imagine how dating another physician would be any different.

The only problem with dating another doc is problem of having two high powered careers in one household. I'm not sure how one can accommdate that AND raise kids and not go insane. Funny enough, I see plenty of examples of two incomed couples with busy careers and most of their kids turn out fine. My own parents had pretty busy careers, especially when I was a young child (rare for the 80's where I lived), but they managed fine. So I guess it's doable.

Also, it could be a cultural thing, but having a nanny or a nonparental caretaker is not considered bad in Chinese culture (or the version I reside in). My maternal grandmother was primary caretaker for all her grandkids until the kids went to school. Ditto on dad's side. It's very common in China for urban families to have grandparents do the primary caretaking while kids are young. My own mother had no qualms with hiring a nanny for a brief period of my babyhood. My family's pretty close, so no horrible thing befell anyone for having less than motherly love tending to their diapers. So I figure, I'm not going to care too much if I need to ask my own mother to babysit my kid or hire a nanny.

My biggest problem would be how do we get the same weekends/holidays off together with two docs? That's why I'm ambivalent about dating anyone with an all consuming career. I don't want an all consuming career, so I'll have to be careful about what residency I pick. However, if my hubby had a demanding job, I'd be left with most of the household management and I think that makes for a poor family life. I'm actually hoping to meet a nondoc, someone who is smart but who is focused on family. So no surgeons, IB or high powered lawyers for me. 😀

I think raising kids make MDs or non MDs insane anyway, and so hiring help, or having grandmas to help is so common. As much as we think med school/being a doctor is hard, I think raising children is SO much harder. You can talk until you are out of breath, and the little charmer is just not going to follow. At least, even if one is a lowly intern, you can write some orders and leavce. No such luck being a parent.

 

[f_w]

I don't think having a non-parental caretaker for your kids is something bad. But I do think that kids appreciate constancy. Whether you achieve that by having a relative live with you, or whether you hire a nanny doesn't matter. I just don't think that dropping the task of raising your kids on some 17 year old from romania is a great idea.

I had this radiology attending who tried to raise her kids on the cheap. Her husband was a private practice hand-surgeon, so you can safely assume that between both of them the financial means to hire a full-time nanny would have been there. Still, she had these 2 au-pairs and 1 babysitter to take care of the kids. Didn't help that she was a obsessive compulsive control freak. You couldn't read out a single study without her being on the phone to avert impending doom. In addition to being useless to her kids, she was also useless to the department. The only thing she was good for was as an example on how NOT combine career and family.

 

[LADoc00]

I don't think having a non-parental caretaker for your kids is something bad..

Why have kids if are not going to be the "caretaker"? Seems like just a cruel joke on an overpopulated world....

On a related note, do any white people sp. those blonde/blue types feel like you need to have kids because white people seem to failing worldwide at reproduction? I kinda see white people as the genetic/reproductively challenged underdog now, funny how life works out sometimes.. 😉

 

[f_w]

I guess your mommy didn't pick you up when you cried.

We've got it. You don't believe in the concept of family and marriage. Next thing you'll try to be funny by posting all kinds of unrelated jpegs. It gets kind of old.

 

[LADoc00]

I guess your mommy didn't pick you up when you cried.

We've got it. You don't believe in the concept of family and marriage. Next thing you'll try to be funny by posting all kinds of unrelated jpegs. It gets kind of old.

eh?
Like this:

 

[mysophobe]

They are unrelated. But, they're funny.

 

[mdnsw]

Why have kids if are not going to be the "caretaker"? Seems like just a cruel joke on an overpopulated world....

On a related note, do any white people sp. those blonde/blue types feel like you need to have kids because white people seem to failing worldwide at reproduction? I kinda see white people as the genetic/reproductively challenged underdog now, funny how life works out sometimes.. 😉

You have to have tried something to be considered a failure at it. I think white people worldwide (plus China and Japan recently) are successful at not reproducing. It's not that white people need to have more kids. It's that brown & yellow people need to have fewer. Reproduction isn't the challenge that it was 10,000 years ago. Now the stupidest, fattest, etc. people of any race, can have 12 kids survive. It's survival of the least fit through charity and excess. So long world, it's been grand.

 

[LADoc00]

You have to have tried something to be considered a failure at it. I think white people worldwide (plus China and Japan recently) are successful at not reproducing. It's not that white people need to have more kids. It's that brown & yellow people need to have fewer. Reproduction isn't the challenge that it was 10,000 years ago. Now the stupidest, fattest, etc. people of any race, can have 12 kids survive. It's survival of the least fit through charity and excess. So long world, it's been grand.

Then why are all the white people streaming into fertility clinics, creating a multi-billion dollar industry around an activity that 15 year olds do for free? That smacks of fertility-challenged to me. Maybe waiting until you are here before you try to have kids is a bad idea:

 

[drbon]

Then why are all the white people streaming into fertility clinics, creating a multi-billion dollar industry around an activity that 15 year olds do for free? That smacks of fertility-challenged to me. Maybe waiting until you are here before you try to have kids is a bad idea:

it's because white people are generally the only ones who can afford fertility clinics
and anyway, the number of kids you have is more based on SES and EDUCATION rather than race....there are plently of noneducated, poor white families with 12 kids and plenty of educated, middle or upper class "yellow and brown" families, as you call them, with one or two kids

 

[f_w]

the number of kids you have is more based on SES and EDUCATION rather than race....

For someone caught up in the eugenics ideology of the 1920s it is all about race.

 

[mdnsw]

it's because white people are generally the only ones who can afford fertility clinics
and anyway, the number of kids you have is more based on SES and EDUCATION rather than race....there are plently of noneducated, poor white families with 12 kids and plenty of educated, middle or upper class "yellow and brown" families, as you call them, with one or two kids

White women go to fertility clinics because they were too successful at not having children and regret their decision when it's almost too late. The average white family has far fewer kids even though some families obviously are large.

Also, we're talking about the world here not just the US. SES is a factor, but all white countries have relatively high SES and low birth rate resulting in an ever decreasing portion of world population. That's what the original question was about. There's relatively little middle class in the world outside the US and Europe, so middle class asian people are a vanishingly small portion of their groups overall even though they make up a large percentage in the isolated communities in Japan, and in Asians of the US & EU.

Hordes of immigrants moving into the US & EU will eventually wipe out a race of people. You don't have to be "caught up in the eugenics ideology of the 1920s" to think this threat to the continued existence of your group is a bad thing. To answer the original question again- No, I don't feel pressure to have more children but I do think others shouldn't have so many and should stay put. They won't only breed white people virtually out of existence, they'll worsen our overpopulation problem. That'll hurt everyone.

You're probably thinking I'm crazy, but if I were talking about stopping the destruction of any other group everyone would think it's wonderful and appropriate.

I'd ask a similar question to LADoc00's too. Do you ever feel pressure to have more children as a person with a high IQ, seeing that reproduction and IQ are too frequently inversely proportional? Wiping out white people will suck, but wiping out smart people is probably worse I think.

 

[f_w]

You're probably thinking I'm crazy,

I know your are crazy (it makes a difference).

 

[f_w]

Wiping out white people will suck, but wiping out smart people is probably worse I think.

Wiping out racists would be a worthwhile cause though.

 

[DOnut]

Hey DOnut, or anyone else that wants to put their 2 cents in....
My husband and I just got married, we're both 3rd years, and we're trying to figure out when's the best time to plan on having a kid. honestly, i'd rather it be sooner than later.....any advice??

I sent you a PM 😉

 

[mdnsw]

oops

 

[mdnsw]

Wiping out racists would be a worthwhile cause though.

Was this directed at LADoc00? I haven't said a racist word, only that we should all be able to continue to exist. What's wrong with that? Did I say something untrue?