How late is applying late?

[viper930]

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All of my secondaries to about 25 schools were completed between 9/10/08 through 10/20/08 with the bulk of them around 9/25/08. Is this considered a late application and will it already put me at a disadvantage? Seeing all these "late applicant" threads is somewhat freaking me out.

Also, if you guys could check out my profile (http://www.mdapplicants.com/viewprofile.php?id=11727) and let me know what you think of my chances at these schools I'd appreciate the feedback.

Washington U St. Louis
Vanderbilt U
U Chicago
Northwestern U
U Michigan
Emory U
U Pittsburgh
U Rochester
Tufts U
U Missouri Columbia
Saint Louis U
Georgetown U
Indiana U
U Illinois Chicago
Drexel U
Rosalind Franklin
Albany Medical College
Loyola U
Kansas
New York Medical College
George Washington U
Tulane U
East Virginia
Florida International U

 

[GoSpursGo]

I'd consider your application borderline late, but not desperately late. There's no doubt you're at a disadvantage to the people who applied earlier, but you should be in early enough at most of the schools that you'd still have a chance to get an interview.

Luckily you have a high MCAT and excellent ECs. I'm never quite sure to say about an applicant like you because you have an above average MCAT and way above average ECs (5 years research=wow to me, and you have solid clinical experience), but your GPA is low. About the only school I feel that I can say with definitiveness is that you have no chance whatsoever at WashU (numbers ******, what can I say?), but all the others might see your MCAT score and give your app a look over despite your low GPA. As for which schools that might be, you might as well pull a couple names out of a hat.

 

[viper930]

Thanks for the feedback Spurs. The really funny/ironic thing is that so far the only news I've heard at all from any of the schools is an interview invite from WashU. It could be that it's a pity invite since I did my undergrad there and was accepted into their "auto-entry to med school + undergrad out of high school" program before I effed my GPA up, lol. Perhaps I actually do have a slim chance though, who knows.

Any other feedback and comments on chances would be really appreciated. Should I look to get another rec letter from my current supervisor at work? Anything else I can do at this point besides wait?

 

[GoSpursGo]

LOL go figure on WashU I guess...

Absolutely get another LOR if you think it would be strong; can't get enough people singing your praises.

 

[Mobius1985]

Theoretically your terrific MCAT will trump the low GPA. I'm sure you're nervous about that writing score, and we can only hope the general wisdom of SDN, that writing scores are rarely regarded, will be true for the lowest possible score. Your research is stand-out terrific and the shadowing looks great, but you don't give enough detail to judge your clinical experience. If it's sparse, that alone might kill your application for this cycle. I think you applied to a good mix of variably selective schools. Aside from the potential weaknesses I've mentioned, it could also be that you haven't heard back from most schools simply because your application is late-ish, they are overwhelmed by the increase in applications this year, and it might take two months before they look at yours. You can only be patient.

 

[viper930]

Thanks for the feedback Mobius! Also, oops! I didn't even realize that I had mis-entered my writing score on my mdapps profile. My actual score was a 36P. It must not have registered or something and left it at J.

Clinical experience was through a bunch of doctors/programs. One of them, who is also one of my pre-med advisors, was a neonatologist and wrote me a very strong LOR. Aside from that, I did a shadowing program in the trauma center of Barnes Jewish Hospital following around attendings 8 hours a week for 3-4 months. Clinical research was also in the ER where I went around talking to patients and families and consenting them into studies while working with doctors and nurses to collect the necessary specimens. Given this info, do you think I should try to get a bit more clinical experience in? I'm pretty busy with working full time at Pfizer right now and the amount of time that I'd be able to dedicate probably wouldnt result in any significant connections leading to LOR's etc.

 

[Mobius1985]

Typing a "J" instead of a "P" for a writing score was an interesting, "Oops!" I'm glad it wasn't real.

What did you do at the retirement home? Did it involve face-to-face contact with the clients? You mention volunteering, which is important to demonstrate your humanistic side. Did it involve any experience that continued for a period of time? You don't need letters for volunteer experiences as long as you include contact information to provide believability.

 

[viper930]

I played music to entertain the residents and talked to them. Nothing medically related at all just gave them something to do. So to answer your question, face to face yes I guess. Aside from that, I've volunteered at a hospital for a couple of months just helping people find where they were going (senior year of HS). I've also helped organize/participate in some short term United Way and Habitat Humanity projects through Pfizer, like going out and building houses for poor people etc. Also still interact with a club I started in HS called Sports for Charity that holds athletic tournaments for students/teachers/alums to raise money for underprivileged inner city children. I just take care of trying to get more alums to participate etc.

 

[Mobius1985]

Given this info, do you think I should try to get a bit more clinical experience in?

You have plenty of shadowing and a lot of contact with patients via your research project. Maybe this is enough, but I can't be reassuring on this point. Honestly, I've never seen an application with no work or volunteer-related patient care contact. If things don't go well this cycle, it might be good to consider getting something started along those lines, so you have an "improvement" to add if you need to reapply. I don't want to make you nervous, but this area is the only non-strength I can see that might be improved on. BTW, stuff you did in high school is not regarded by adcomms, unless you continued the activity in the college years.

 

[GoSpursGo]

Agree with what Mobius said as far as high school stuff, they don't really want to hear about it unless it's something you continued; the only high school thing I put on my application was the fact that I did research that was published in HS, and then continued doing research in college, albeit on different projects.

I'd say try and get involved in something clinical now so that you can send an update letter to your schools. I think with your stats, you should still get in somewhere, but I think you'd be infinitely more competitive with even 30 hours of volunteer experience over the next month or so. Plus it will give you stuff to talk about in the interviews.

 

[viper930]

Honestly, I've never seen an application with no work or volunteer-related patient care contact.

Could you elaborate more on this? Would voluntary shadowing and clinical research in the ED of a major hospital (which is separate from my laboratory research project that the publication is for) not fit under the category of patient care contact? What would you guys suggest I do as a volunteer effort in the coming months as an update item? I have a friend who volunteers at a pediatric specialty hospital on weekends pretty much just playing with the kids. Is that something that would fit into volunteer related patient care contact? Not meaning to argue your points in any way (really appreciate all the advice and feedback) but just wanted some clarification.

 

[Mobius1985]

Shadowing is a passive experience. It is clinical contact, but provides no service to the patient. The clinical research you described did provide a face-to-face patient interaction, but its purpose was to provide you with a research experience, not to serve the patient (though benefit may ultimately occur). Neither was patient care, but both are valuable experiences and look great on an application. I think what I see missing is the altruistic aspect that would be present were you volunteering in a hospital or clinic, and interacting with sick people, with no secondary gain for you. Again, I am not saying I am certain what you've done is insufficient. But you are an outlier, in my experience, by not having a humanitarian component among your patient contact experiences. The only way you'll know it isn't an issue, is if you are accepted somewhere (or if you call admissions offices and ask). Perhaps its better to act proactively, and get involved in a traditional volunteer experience, rather than find out too late that such an experience is essential to adcomms.

Playing with sick kids would fulfill the expectation. So would helping in a post-op unit, acting as a clerk or assistant in a free clinic, helping with hospice care, visiting with clients in a nursing home, etc. Having a job in a healthcare setting would provide a patient care experience, but one would be expected to also demonstrate a humanitarian bent by volunteering in a non-medical setting as well, to have the best possible application.