How long before you have to retake your science courses?

[clumpymold]

Hey all,

Not sure if this has been posted (not sure what to search for) but I'm wondering if any of you applying to medical school soon and have been out of college for a while, needed to retake your science courses over again.

1.) I've been out of college over 5 years now (graduated class of 2000) and heard today (from my nurse) that I will have to retake all my science courses (at least my medical school prerequisites) after 5 years. Is that correct?

2.) If so, where can I take them? Anywhere? Or is it better to take them at my original undergraduate institution? Or should I just redo my entire 4 years (well, actually, 5 years)?

3.) Also, how does my "new" GPA work then? Is it added to it and then weighted (which would suck since I have TONS of units)? Or do I get a whole new GPA (or at least a whole new "science" GPA)?

Thanks all for the help! Sorry for asking so many questions. 🙁

- Curtis

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[2tall]

Not very sure about the 5 year deal. You should contact schools you plan on applying to and ask about their policy. My guess is that the answer is no. I've heard seven years thrown around...but like I said I'm not sure. Since you haven't taken classes in five years, you'll need to do some post-bacc work...some upper level biology courses to show that you still have what it takes. You can take courses at any undergraduate institution. The grades you receive in those courses will be weighted with your old cumulative and old science GPAs.

 

[willthatsall]

As far as I know, you don't have to retake courses ever. As for showing you still know your stuff, MCAT scores are usually only good for 3 years. If you don't know your stuff, it will show up on the MCAT.

 

[clumpymold]

Awesome replies, guys! Thanks for that. That definitely makes me feel better.

Would a post bac course help, in my case? I'm 28 now and I'm afraid I'm getting too old. I don't want to invest another 1-3 years taking classes (working too?) in addition to the 4 or so years for medical school.

What are my best options now? I have a 2.999 GPA (which really sucks since I had no intention of doing graduate work back in college and just wanted to graduate) in Biology and Economics (not sure what my science GPA is but I'm assuming around a 3.0). Have yet to take the MCAT.

I think the ONLY thing going for me is that I have a primary immune condition (X-linked agammaglobulinemia) and that I plan to specialize in that field. I think it would be ideal to have a doctor living with the condition they're treating. I have yet to meet ONE doctor in that situation (my twin brother just graduated from medical school last month but I don't think he's going to specialize in that field 🙁 ).

 

[willthatsall]

Awesome replies, guys! Thanks for that. That definitely makes me feel better.

Would a post bac course help, in my case? I'm 28 now and I'm afraid I'm getting too old. I don't want to invest another 1-3 years taking classes (working too?) in addition to the 4 or so years for medical school.

What are my best options now? I have a 2.999 GPA (which really sucks since I had no intention of doing graduate work back in college and just wanted to graduate) in Biology and Economics (not sure what my science GPA is but I'm assuming around a 3.0). Have yet to take the MCAT.

I think the ONLY thing going for me is that I have a primary immune condition (X-linked agammaglobulinemia) and that I plan to specialize in that field. I think it would be ideal to have a doctor living with the condition they're treating. I have yet to meet ONE doctor in that situation (my twin brother just graduated from medical school last month but I don't think he's going to specialize in that field 🙁 ).

Well, if you did a post bacc it could help you in a couple of ways. First, your GPA needs help, obviously. Second, it would prep you for the MCAT. If you have the money, it's probably not a bad idea.

But wait, can you do a post bacc if you've already taken all the courses before? I thought most people did post baccs because they weren't pre-med in ugrad and then decided they wanted to go back and take the pre-reqs... I guess you should be able to retake them though, not really sure

 

[clumpymold]

Well, if you did a post bacc it could help you in a couple of ways. First, your GPA needs help, obviously. Second, it would prep you for the MCAT. If you have the money, it's probably not a bad idea.

But wait, can you do a post bacc if you've already taken all the courses before? I thought most people did post baccs because they weren't pre-med in ugrad and then decided they wanted to go back and take the pre-reqs... I guess you should be able to retake them though, not really sure

Yeah, good question. I was wondering the same thing. It's strange how going to college not knowing what you want to do in life can affect someone so badly. If I had known I wanted to go into medicine (for sure) back then, I would have studied so much harder (at least I had a goal, you know?). Now, because I kept my biology major, it just hurts me. 🙁

I'll look into a post-bac program in the meantime. Or at least some extra courses to help boost my GPA.

 

[bioteacher]

Are you going to be an MD-Phd? I think that is the only way you could specialize in such a specific condition. Sounds like you would be a genetic counselor unless you are going to do research on this disease.

I had the same GPA and science GPA and got a 32S MCAT. I graduated in 1996 and no school had any policy saying my classes were out of date. While it didn't help my position to have such old grades, a 3.0 GPA is just not competitive unless you a URM or have some insane EC's. I have been a Biology teacher for seven years and that didn't seem to matter to Adcom's at all. I applied to dozens of schools and only got one interview.

I am doing a post bac at EVMS next year. More specifically an SMP, which is what you will be interested in since you have already completed all the prereq's. Problem is, you need to apply early Jan - March 2006 and have an MCAT score already (and some schools require that you have applied unsuccessfully). Unless you are taking the August 2005 MCAT, you will have to take the April or Aug 2006 MCAT and apply for fall 2007.

 

[wakebord99]

Sounds like 5 years out of the science field all together, you will deffinately need some help with the MCAT's. Expecially if you didn't graduate with either a Chem, Bio, or Phys degree.

Go and take some free practice MCAT exams. I think there are some on the AAMC web site. See if you actually remember anything from college. Chances are that you'll need to brush up on your sciences. One semester of a Chem, Bio, and Phys wouldn't hurt, and get you geared back toward the hours of studying you'll need to get anything decent on the MCATs.

 

[IAMS]

I've only run into 2 schools which indicate a time frame, Duke and McGill require all classes in the last 7 years. Other than that, I haven't heard of any issues - but the best thing to do is call a few schools, and schedule an appointment to sit down with an admissions committee member. You'd be suprised how many answers you can get on how they view someone in your situation. Works better than asking a bunch of other applicants who have no idea!! 🙂

 

[Law2Doc]

But wait, can you do a post bacc if you've already taken all the courses before? I thought most people did post baccs because they weren't pre-med in ugrad and then decided they wanted to go back and take the pre-reqs... I guess you should be able to retake them though, not really sure

Yes, some postbacs allow you to retake courses if they are very old or if you previously did poorly (or some combination of the two). But you can also do a postbac where you take upper level science courses even where you already have the prereqs. While very few schools have set rules as to when prereqs "expire" (a couple do - do a search in the nontraditional forum, and a couple of postbac programs recommend retaking after a certain time lapse), almost every school will want to see recent success in science courses before they admit you to such a science intense program as med school. They will also want to see a GPA much higher than a 3.0. Since your GPA is low anyhow, you really should find a place to retake whatever prereqs you did poorly in and take a series of upper level courses -- and ace them all. This will pull up your GPA closer to reasonable. Then if you can top it off with a SMP or a one year hard science masters, and do well on the MCAT I think you'll have a shot. And don't forget the ECs -- you also need to get some decent medically related clinical experience (via volunteering, shadowing or working at a hospital) along the road. I wouldn't worry about your age -- there are many people who have made a career change to medicine who are much older than you.

 

[clumpymold]

Are you going to be an MD-Phd? I think that is the only way you could specialize in such a specific condition. Sounds like you would be a genetic counselor unless you are going to do research on this disease.

I had the same GPA and science GPA and got a 32S MCAT. I graduated in 1996 and no school had any policy saying my classes were out of date. While it didn't help my position to have such old grades, a 3.0 GPA is just not competitive unless you a URM or have some insane EC's. I have been a Biology teacher for seven years and that didn't seem to matter to Adcom's at all. I applied to dozens of schools and only got one interview.

I am doing a post bac at EVMS next year. More specifically an SMP, which is what you will be interested in since you have already completed all the prereq's. Problem is, you need to apply early Jan - March 2006 and have an MCAT score already (and some schools require that you have applied unsuccessfully). Unless you are taking the August 2005 MCAT, you will have to take the April or Aug 2006 MCAT and apply for fall 2007.

I'm not sure if I'll go into an MD-PhD program. I would like to but I'm worried I won't be able to cut it. 🙁

I would love to get a 32S on my MCAT but I'll have to see once I take it. Yeah, I have similar grades as you and I'm also in the "teaching" field. You can read my background information here:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=2793769#post2793769

I'll look into a post-bac but am leaning against them simply because I'm afraid I may be too old (I think my memory is fading 🙁 ). Thanks!

Sounds like 5 years out of the science field all together, you will deffinately need some help with the MCAT's. Expecially if you didn't graduate with either a Chem, Bio, or Phys degree.

Go and take some free practice MCAT exams. I think there are some on the AAMC web site. See if you actually remember anything from college. Chances are that you'll need to brush up on your sciences. One semester of a Chem, Bio, and Phys wouldn't hurt, and get you geared back toward the hours of studying you'll need to get anything decent on the MCATs.

Well, I actually majored in biology. But that didn't help much since I forgot most of it. But, I teach/tutor biology and chemistry now so I'm pretty solid on those subjects now. It's physics, organic chemistry, and reading/writing that I'm uneasy about.

You can see the link above for more information on my background. 😀

I've only run into 2 schools which indicate a time frame, Duke and McGill require all classes in the last 7 years. Other than that, I haven't heard of any issues - but the best thing to do is call a few schools, and schedule an appointment to sit down with an admissions committee member. You'd be suprised how many answers you can get on how they view someone in your situation. Works better than asking a bunch of other applicants who have no idea!! 🙂

Wow, I guess Duke and McGill may be out of the question. 😉 I see what you mean about sitting down with a school. Does it matter which school? Should it be one that I would like to go to? I'm afraid I won't get into any schools. 🙁

Yes, some postbacs allow you to retake courses if they are very old or if you previously did poorly (or some combination of the two). But you can also do a postbac where you take upper level science courses even where you already have the prereqs. While very few schools have set rules as to when prereqs "expire" (a couple do - do a search in the nontraditional forum, and a couple of postbac programs recommend retaking after a certain time lapse), almost every school will want to see recent success in science courses before they admit you to such a science intense program as med school. They will also want to see a GPA much higher than a 3.0. Since your GPA is low anyhow, you really should find a place to retake whatever prereqs you did poorly in and take a series of upper level courses -- and ace them all. This will pull up your GPA closer to reasonable. Then if you can top it off with a SMP or a one year hard science masters, and do well on the MCAT I think you'll have a shot. And don't forget the ECs -- you also need to get some decent medically related clinical experience (via volunteering, shadowing or working at a hospital) along the road. I wouldn't worry about your age -- there are many people who have made a career change to medicine who are much older than you.

What is reasonable in terms of GPA? I double majored so it would take quite a bit of courses to even bring my GPA up. 🙁

See if you can shed some light on my new thread (see link above).

Thanks, you all!

 

[mshheaddoc]

you'll get better answers in the post-bacc forum. Your thread will get lost here. Guaranteed. Plus most of pre-allo (not all) is those still in college.

Grades depend on schools, some accept only within 7 years. Only two schools so far have I heard this from through posters. Research the schools you want to apply.


You need to boost you GPA. Take upper level postbacc or special masters program. Even with a 32 MCAT you are going to need to boost it (UNLESS you have steller EC's and LORs) then it might be worth it but unless you have something that makes you stick out, I'd be leary of that sub 3.0 *also unless there was a reason for it as well - like increasing trend, full-time/part-time job, etc*

 

[klp14]

I'd suggest doing the post-bacc or at least taking a few science classes over again at a community college (maybe one a semester since you're already working FT). The masters degree might look good but it doesn't factor into your undergrad or BCPM GPA.

 

[clumpymold]

I'd suggest doing the post-bacc or at least taking a few science classes over again at a community college (maybe one a semester since you're already working FT). The masters degree might look good but it doesn't factor into your undergrad or BCPM GPA.

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking about doing. I have several "C" grades (and one "C-" grade) that I would love to raise/average/eliminate. But I can't find many that offer upper division science courses. Or is that because they're community colleges (I've never been to one).

And I prefer not to go into a masters program because I don't think I have time for that. 🙁

 

[clumpymold]

you'll get better answers in the post-bacc forum. Your thread will get lost here. Guaranteed. Plus most of pre-allo (not all) is those still in college.

Grades depend on schools, some accept only within 7 years. Only two schools so far have I heard this from through posters. Research the schools you want to apply.

You need to boost you GPA. Take upper level postbacc or special masters program. Even with a 32 MCAT you are going to need to boost it (UNLESS you have steller EC's and LORs) then it might be worth it but unless you have something that makes you stick out, I'd be leary of that sub 3.0 *also unless there was a reason for it as well - like increasing trend, full-time/part-time job, etc*

Okay, I'll look into that. I think I already have a lot of answers. I'll troll over there though. 😉

Yes, I definitely need to boost my GPA. I think the only thing that makes me "stick out" is that I have a condition. It's not horrible, but I don't know many med students (aside from my brother) that actually have a condition that is the same as that of their specialty. I dunno though. 😕

 

[freaker]

Just a bit of advice from my experience: I was a humanities major but completed my science pre-reqs in undergrad. I also worked for a bit after school before applying to med schools.

When I applied, my most recent science class was taken 3 years ago, though I had done well on coursework in other fields after graduating.

I had a 3.7 gpa, about a 3.5 in the sciences, and scored a 35 on the MCAT. I did get into my state school off of the waitlist, but that's it. I'm on 5 other waitlists right now.

In talking to adcoms after all of this mess, the reason they all waitlisted me was my lack of recent science coursework.

I feel very fortunate to have gotten into my state school.

My advice to you would be to take some upper-level science courses or maybe even repeat some pre-reqs you didn't do well on.

If time is of the utmost, you may want to look into DO schools, which will replace old grades if you retake the course when calculating your gpa. That could certainly give you a boost along the way.

 

[Law2Doc]

I'd suggest doing the post-bacc or at least taking a few science classes over again at a community college (maybe one a semester since you're already working FT). The masters degree might look good but it doesn't factor into your undergrad or BCPM GPA.

You are correct, the masters won't affect the undergrad GPAs, but as the OP has indicated, with a heavy undergrad so many years ago, it could take many many years to move his GPA up very significantly. Thus if he does a decent amount of postbac (2yrs?), gets the GPA up as high as it will go in that time frame showing an ability to excell at sciences, and then tops it off with a masters to boot (which won't affect the GPA, but is a very positive academic credential that adcoms can look at when they are grasping for something to help them overcome that low GPA), I think he'd have a shot. Of course I'm not an adcom member (but I did once stay at a Holiday Inn Express 🙄 ).
I wouldn't do the postbac courses at a community college if there is another option, though -- A's at those places, after having struggled at a 4 year university, tend not to be as highly regarded.

 

[fateema368]

Awesome replies, guys! Thanks for that. That definitely makes me feel better.

Would a post bac course help, in my case? I'm 28 now and I'm afraid I'm getting too old. I don't want to invest another 1-3 years taking classes (working too?) in addition to the 4 or so years for medical school.

What are my best options now? I have a 2.999 GPA (which really sucks since I had no intention of doing graduate work back in college and just wanted to graduate) in Biology and Economics (not sure what my science GPA is but I'm assuming around a 3.0). Have yet to take the MCAT.

I think the ONLY thing going for me is that I have a primary immune condition (X-linked agammaglobulinemia) and that I plan to specialize in that field. I think it would be ideal to have a doctor living with the condition they're treating. I have yet to meet ONE doctor in that situation (my twin brother just graduated from medical school last month but I don't think he's going to specialize in that field 🙁 ).

28 is not too old, but if your not willing to retake all your class/enter a formal Master postbac, I really would recomend the DO route. I suspect you would still be able to specialize in your chosen field, and DO schools factor in only the highest grade when you retake a class so your gpa would improve quite quickly with less work. That way won't spend years away from medicine, and DO's don't require extrodinarily high MCAT scores 26-29 is competitive.

 

[lexrageorge]

I tend to agree with the advice you've been given. I can add UMASS to the list that requires the pre-reqs to be completed within 8 years. However, I have heard (rumor) that most schools that have this requirement are flexible. For example, it is doubtful that they would require an engineering major to retake Calculus.

You definitely want to do some classes, however, if no other reason to make sure you get a decent MCAT.

 

[fullefect1]

I would reccomend taking some refresher science courses.. and then apply the DO route. It would probably take a couple years to bring up the GPA to the point were you have a decent shot of getting in at a MD school.

 

[clumpymold]

Just a bit of advice from my experience: I was a humanities major but completed my science pre-reqs in undergrad. I also worked for a bit after school before applying to med schools.

When I applied, my most recent science class was taken 3 years ago, though I had done well on coursework in other fields after graduating.

I had a 3.7 gpa, about a 3.5 in the sciences, and scored a 35 on the MCAT. I did get into my state school off of the waitlist, but that's it. I'm on 5 other waitlists right now.

In talking to adcoms after all of this mess, the reason they all waitlisted me was my lack of recent science coursework.

I feel very fortunate to have gotten into my state school.

My advice to you would be to take some upper-level science courses or maybe even repeat some pre-reqs you didn't do well on.

If time is of the utmost, you may want to look into DO schools, which will replace old grades if you retake the course when calculating your gpa. That could certainly give you a boost along the way.

Wow, that doesn't really sound reassuring. I need to take FIFTY classes and get A's in ALL of them to bring my GPA to a 3.501! I have way too many classes in undergrad (double majored).

Yeah, I plan to look into taking some of my courses over as well as some other refresher courses.

I was looking at my transcript and noticed I received a C- in Mammalian Physiology II. Hmm, where else can I take a class to average/replace that grade other than UCSD? Another UC school? That class sounds pretty specific. 🙁

And yes, I'll look into DO school although I prefer the MD route.

 

[clumpymold]

You are correct, the masters won't affect the undergrad GPAs, but as the OP has indicated, with a heavy undergrad so many years ago, it could take many many years to move his GPA up very significantly. Thus if he does a decent amount of postbac (2yrs?), gets the GPA up as high as it will go in that time frame showing an ability to excell at sciences, and then tops it off with a masters to boot (which won't affect the GPA, but is a very positive academic credential that adcoms can look at when they are grasping for something to help them overcome that low GPA), I think he'd have a shot. Of course I'm not an adcom member (but I did once stay at a Holiday Inn Express 🙄 ).
I wouldn't do the postbac courses at a community college if there is another option, though -- A's at those places, after having struggled at a 4 year university, tend not to be as highly regarded.

I think a Masters is a bit much at this point. I want to try to get in the first time with just some decent courses and an awesome MCAT score. If not, I'll look into Master's programs as well as DO schools. Not sure though.

And yeah, no postbacc at a community college. In fact, I don't think I've ever taken a course at a community college. Hmm...

 

[clumpymold]

28 is not too old, but if your not willing to retake all your class/enter a formal Master postbac, I really would recomend the DO route. I suspect you would still be able to specialize in your chosen field, and DO schools factor in only the highest grade when you retake a class so your gpa would improve quite quickly with less work. That way won't spend years away from medicine, and DO's don't require extrodinarily high MCAT scores 26-29 is competitive.

I sure feel old. But I know I don't look old AT ALL. I get that I'm still in high school ALL The time. If you saw me, you'd think the same thing. I think it's because I'm short and skinny. 🙁

I'll look into DO schools if I don't get accepted the first time. A 26-29 MCAT score sounds reasonable/doable. But I'm shooting for something higher. But we'll see. 😛

 

[clumpymold]

I would reccomend taking some refresher science courses.. and then apply the DO route. It would probably take a couple years to bring up the GPA to the point were you have a decent shot of getting in at a MD school.

Yes, thanks for that advice. I may do that or just study my ass off for the MCAT. If my score is good enough, I may just retake some of my poorer grade classes. I currently teach biology and chemistry and am noticing that I really understand most of the biology and chemistry on this MCAT review book that I'm looking over. I guess it paid off to teach. 😀

What GPA is considered decent? With my horrible grades, I would need TEN classes (all A's) just to bring my GPA up to a 3.17 (BCPM GPA to a 3.25). I guess that's not too bad but TEN?! That's a lot. 🙁

 

[clumpymold]

I tend to agree with the advice you've been given. I can add UMASS to the list that requires the pre-reqs to be completed within 8 years. However, I have heard (rumor) that most schools that have this requirement are flexible. For example, it is doubtful that they would require an engineering major to retake Calculus.

You definitely want to do some classes, however, if no other reason to make sure you get a decent MCAT.

Yes, I think MCAT is the key now. Wish me luck.

Any suggestions on how to prepare for the MCAT (I'm sure there are TONS of threads on this forum for that)? 😛