How long can a General Surgeon realistically practice?

[moca83]

---

Members do not see this ad.

Greetings,

I've search for this information without success. I would like to know if it's practical for a 70 y/o individual to practice general surgery or if the nature of the job (i.e., stress, hours, physical requirements, etc) preclude one from doing so.

I'm about to begin medical school this Fall and I'm trying to nail down the practical/economic/lifestyle components of general surgery before I make it my core strategy...This is just how I operate; I require long-term goals.

Thanks for the input!

 

[blue2000]

Greetings,

I've search for this information without success. I would like to know if it's practical for a 70 y/o individual to practice general surgery or if the nature of the job (i.e., stress, hours, physical requirements, etc) preclude one from doing so.

I'm about to begin medical school this Fall and I'm trying to nail down the practical/economic/lifestyle components of general surgery before I make it my core strategy...This is just how I operate; I require long-term goals.

Thanks for the input!

I live in a small town, and just replaced a retiring general surgeon. He was about 65 when he retired. There are only two full time general surgeons here but our calls can be pretty busy. Our current solution is to have as locums three late career guys who have retired from their primary practices. All of them are in their late 60s, and cover call for us at a 5-7 day stretch. They do no clinic/elective stuff while they are here. Anecdotally, while they are happy to come up, earn some cash and do a few cases, most of them are "done" with private practice. Most of the retiring general surgeons I know are mid to late 60s.

 

[Dirt]

Tough question to answer because it is so dependent upon the individual. I definitely have met surgeons, both general and vascular who are still working extreme hours in their late 60's. I have also seen a couple of older surgeons (think 70's) who limited their practice in terms of hours and complexity of cases they took but continued to work.

That being said, there are obviously physical demands in surgery that simply aren't present in other specialties that could limit the life of your practice.

 

[45408]

seems like most of them retire in their mid 60s

 

[VeryVeryTired]

Greetings,

I've search for this information without success. I would like to know if it's practical for a 70 y/o individual to practice general surgery or if the nature of the job (i.e., stress, hours, physical requirements, etc) preclude one from doing so.

I'm about to begin medical school this Fall and I'm trying to nail down the practical/economic/lifestyle components of general surgery before I make it my core strategy...This is just how I operate; I require long-term goals.

Thanks for the input!

Some surgeons do practice at 70. You can decide whether you will at 69.

Change how you function. To even attempt to plan that time-frame now is beyond foolish. If you calculate the independent risks of outside influences such as death, debilitation, legislation, technology, war, marriage, children, etc., you'll discover how little control you actually have.

Just keep your eyes on residency right now. Who knows what will happen before you even have your M.D.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Practical? Who knows?

As others have noted, there are of course surgeons who practice into their 70s. I have a good friend whose father is 77 and still practicing. I've spoken before about an 83 yo Vascular Surgeon I saw during my pre-med days.

According to the ACS, the average age of retirement is about 62. But there are so many individual factors that we can't tell you whether its practical for you to be practicing at age 70. Your life and needs will change many times over the next few decades. For example, I always envisioned practicing until I keeled over, but I seem to have some arthritis in my hands which I expect to get worse (and possibly affect my ability to comfortably practice) and I am enjoying my life outside of the OR more. Those things may lead me to retire sooner rather than later (finances not withstanding).

 

[45408]

Yeah, I work with a few surgeons (one who is all but fully retired, another still working full-time) who have pretty bad arthritis. I can certainly see how that would bring your career to its close.

 

[moca83]

I appreciate all the responses. Thank you!🙂

 

[Ronin786]

http://www.baltimoresun.com/health/bs-hs-whipple-doctor-20120328,0,2508741.story

 

[mtwop]

http://www.baltimoresun.com/health/bs-hs-whipple-doctor-20120328,0,2508741.story

what a baller

 

[YoungestBrother]

I always envisioned practicing until I keeled over, but I seem to have some arthritis in my hands which I expect to get worse (and possibly affect my ability to comfortably practice) and I am enjoying my life outside of the OR more. Those things may lead me to retire sooner rather than later (finances not withstanding).

I have always thought that I would work as long as I possibly could also, but I know there are physical requirements for surgery that could shorten time as an active surgeon. Do you think it would be possible to transition into a clinical position that didn't involve surgery? I mean, not to disparrage IM, but couldn't you just join a group of internists to keep seeing patients?

 

[Winged Scapula]

I have always thought that I would work as long as I possibly could also, but I know there are physical requirements for surgery that could shorten time as an active surgeon.

That is highly variable. Even at the extremes of age, surgeons demonstrate more physical agility than age matched controls. Could you still operate at 80 years of age? Sure, I have a friend who's father is still doing so (but mostly for financial reasons, sadly). Currently there are no hard and fast rules about retiring, although some employers/hospitals may stipulate some.

Do you think it would be possible to transition into a clinical position that didn't involve surgery? I mean, not to disparrage IM, but couldn't you just join a group of internists to keep seeing patients?

Why would a group of internists want a surgeon who couldn't operate? You aren't an internist (as much bravado as us GS have, you are not trained to be an internist), so you wouldn't be as useful to them as someone who is fully trained in IM and you wouldn't be useful as a surgeon, since you wouldn't be operating. I could only see you being useful for a low level office based practice, but the internists should be able to do most of those things as well; perhaps if you were just working as an endoscopist but you would have to have surgical coverage if a patient needed an operation and you might find that the GI guys in town aren't happy about having you do those cases.

Many surgeons transition into either physically less demanding surgical careers (i.e., doing breast, veins, etc) or academic positions. Others may take on a consulting role.

 

[YoungestBrother]

Why would a group of internists want a surgeon who couldn't operate? You aren't an internist (as much bravado as us GS have, you are not trained to be an internist), so you wouldn't be as useful to them as someone who is fully trained in IM and you wouldn't be useful as a surgeon, since you wouldn't be operating. I could only see you being useful for a low level office based practice, but the internists should be able to do most of those things as well; perhaps if you were just working as an endoscopist but you would have to have surgical coverage if a patient needed an operation and you might find that the GI guys in town aren't happy about having you do those cases.

Many surgeons transition into either physically less demanding surgical careers (i.e., doing breast, veins, etc) or academic positions. Others may take on a consulting role.

I guess I was thinking about low level office-based work, doing just basic primary care. I mean, sure I wouldn't have IM or FM training, but I'm sure my knowledge would be at least on par with what a midlevel could do. I'm thinking of this not as a way to make money, but as a way to keep seeing patients after my own probable arthritis takes away some dexterity. My dad is still a practicing FP at 76, and a friend of his (a cardiologist, age 85) recently joined his practice when his own practice folded. He said to my dad "I'm not sure who I am if I'm not a doctor". I can see myself having the exact same dilemma at that point in my life.

 

[Winged Scapula]

I guess I was thinking about low level office-based work, doing just basic primary care. I mean, sure I wouldn't have IM or FM training, but I'm sure my knowledge would be at least on par with what a midlevel could do. I'm thinking of this not as a way to make money, but as a way to keep seeing patients after my own probable arthritis takes away some dexterity. My dad is still a practicing FP at 76, and a friend of his (a cardiologist, age 85) recently joined his practice when his own practice folded. He said to my dad "I'm not sure who I am if I'm not a doctor". I can see myself having the exact same dilemma at that point in my life.

I understand what you are proposing.

The difference in having a cardiologist join an FP group, is that your father's friend has done an IM residency and has spent nearly 60 years doing IM work, albeit as a cardiologist. As a surgeon, you have not and are grossly overestimating what your primary care skills would be. Could you be better than a midlevel? Perhaps, but that would require that you kept yourself updated on current management of diabetes, hypertension, hypercholesterolemia, etc. I think that a big leap.

Finally, you may find malpractice coverage difficult, as you would be practicing outside your area of expertise. Not that you couldn't get it but you will be held to a higher standard than a midlevel given your degree and therefore, you may be opening yourself up to litigation. Just IMHO, you'd be better off doing Urgent Care stuff, or the afore mentioned office based procedural work than trying to work as a PCP.

 

[Lioness]

Another non-operative option is to transition to critical care. You can still care for surgical patients (and have that inside info) and do procedures, but without operating if a tremor or arthritis are issues. This can also involve better hours and no call (shift-work style). I know at least one academic vascular surgeon who has gone this route, though he also was still taking some trauma call as of last year.

 

[YoungestBrother]

I understand what you are proposing.

The difference in having a cardiologist join an FP group, is that your father's friend has done an IM residency and has spent nearly 60 years doing IM work, albeit as a cardiologist. As a surgeon, you have not and are grossly overestimating what your primary care skills would be. Could you be better than a midlevel? Perhaps, but that would require that you kept yourself updated on current management of diabetes, hypertension, hypercholesterolemia, etc. I think that a big leap.

Finally, you may find malpractice coverage difficult, as you would be practicing outside your area of expertise. Not that you couldn't get it but you will be held to a higher standard than a midlevel given your degree and therefore, you may be opening yourself up to litigation. Just IMHO, you'd be better off doing Urgent Care stuff, or the afore mentioned office based procedural work than trying to work as a PCP.

That makes sense. Thanks for the input! I guess I should probably focus on getting through the pre-clinical years before I start planning out what I'll be doing in my 70s and 80s haha.

 

[Winged Scapula]

That makes sense. Thanks for the input! I guess I should probably focus on getting through the pre-clinical years before I start planning out what I'll be doing in my 70s and 80s haha.

Yes, baby steps, baby steps. LOL....

 

[DoctwoB]

While a practice may not have much use for a surgeon that won't operate, I know of many cases where surgeons will start referring bigger cases to their younger partners and continue handling smaller or office based procedures themselves. Some surgical fields like uno or ent lend themselves to this better then others, but I'm sure it cam be done in gensurg as well

 

[ram006]

This is one of the biggest draws of PRS for me. Big bad ass cases in my younger years with a transition to an office based practice in the twilight of my career.

 

[Pir8DeacDoc]

Keep in mind malpractice cost in this scaled back utopia of which you speak. Late in your career the cost of malpractice is very high. Potentially makes the occasional hernia or GB not worth the financial investment. In my world (at least what I've seen) we scale back to simple skin cancers and snotty noses and leave the OR stuff behind. Malpractice cost goes WAY down.