how long should I shadow someone?

[arahnisarahn]

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I have a question about shadowing an optometrist.
I currently work in an optometry, however to me it’s more of a retail side of things. So I decided to shadow the optometrist and a few others that have there own practice. So how long should I be able to shadow someone, or ask to shadow?

 

[alferec]

You should really shadow a doc only for a couple of months, then move on to another setting because it's best to diverify your exposure.

Check out this thread for more useful info on how to ask to shadow:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=455517

 

[RichardOD]

if you live close to an optometry school, it's really helpful if you shadow at the clinic with one of the preceptor optometrist there. Patients at the clinic are use to having students in the examination room with them, so its not awkward or anything. I find that when you shadow at the clinic you are shadowing both the optometrist that watches over the clinic and also the optometry students that are doing their rotations. You will learn alot more there because most of the examination rooms have teaching tubes so you can see what the optometrist sees under the slit lamp. Alot of the stuff I learned actually applied to optometry coarse material, especially pathology because I got to see some ocular diseases and kind of got an understanding on what optometrist do to treat these patients. When I sat in with a friend in an optometry class I noticed that I had seen the material before in the clinic. Also if you get to know the students, during their breaks or if a patient doesn't show up to their appointment, sometimes they will show you how to do an retinoscopy or teach you how to use the slit lamp. It's really interesting shadowing at the optometry school because you can kind of jump around to different examination rooms and I had a tendency to jump around to older patients rooms in hope of seeing some kind of ocular diseases.

I think you should shadow as much as you can/want. I feel that you need as much clinical experience as you can get and seeing what mistakes the clinic students make help prevent you from making the same mistakes for when you get into optometry school.

 

[docwatson]

I think you should shadow as much as you can/want. I feel that you need as much clinical experience as you can get and seeing what mistakes the clinic students make help prevent you from making the same mistakes for when you get into optometry school.

Mistakes??

I don't think you are going to learn a whole lot by shadowing someone around for months. You probably will get as much as you need to know in only a couple of days because you won't know what the doctor is doing and nothing is really going to sink in.

The best thing you can do is get a job as a clinical assistant at a medical optometrist's office (like mine!). You really need to get hands on experience since there is a huge difference between seeing and doing. Since you will be committed to doing the job right, you will learn a ton. You will be in charge of handling patients, doing pre-exam tests, and assisting the doctors. Of course it's best to get with an optometrist who is willing to teach you something about optometry while you are a tech (like me!). I love to teach!

In my office, we delegate a lot so the techs really learn how to most everything in the office. We've hired a lot of college kids because they learn fast and they understand what the tests are for... We've had some that have only been with us for 3 months and others for as long as one year.

 

[RichardOD]

Mistakes??

I don't think you are going to learn a whole lot by shadowing someone around for months. You probably will get as much as you need to know in only a couple of days because you won't know what the doctor is doing and nothing is really going to sink in.

The best thing you can do is get a job as a clinical assistant at a medical optometrist's office (like mine!). You really need to get hands on experience since there is a huge difference between seeing and doing. Since you will be committed to doing the job right, you will learn a ton. You will be in charge of handling patients, doing pre-exam tests, and assisting the doctors. Of course it's best to get with an optometrist who is willing to teach you something about optometry while you are a tech (like me!). I love to teach!

In my office, we delegate a lot so the techs really learn how to most everything in the office. We've hired a lot of college kids because they learn fast and they understand what the tests are for... We've had some that have only been with us for 3 months and others for as long as one year.

Do you have a teaching tube? It not everyday you see opalescent cataracts, bulgy eye from hyperthyroidism, and keratoconus, so you can't just shadow for a few days and expect to see it all. I know people who have worked for private practices for years and still don't know what is going on in the examination room. They just know how to use the auto refracter, maybe the optomap if their practice have a machine, and other then that they just "sell sell sell" and push for glasses. It's good for the business aspect. And i'm totally down for that, but I would like to see more of the pathology side of Optometry. Being in the clinic I'm not just shadowing an optometrist, i'm shadowing the students and seeing a different variety of patients. I know of some optometry schools that require their first and second year students to sit in on the clinics. Being in the clinic I not only see diseases, I see alot of patient doctor interaction and I learn alot from it. Being in your office I would think most of your patients would rather have just an optometrist there due to confidentiality reasons, whereas at the clinic they are being examined by students and are more open to students shadowing. The doctor I shadow has a very wide scope in optometry and I've learned so much from him. I have gotten to see the sports vision side of Optometry. I'm sure if your just seeing the typical eye exam and prescription of new glasses it would be pretty boring, but being in a clinic with 12 students working at the same time I get to see more than just eye exams if I go into rooms with older patients. If you were to practice at a doctors office you would be seeing typical eye exams everyday.

Overall, I'm not saying shadowing a private practice or working at a private practice is not a good idea. I think it's awesome for learning the business aspect of optometry. But I think the clinic helps more with the educational part of optometry. I'm hoping that eventually after shadowing for a while I can get some parts of the eye exam down before I go into optometry school(just the simple stuff). I have sat in for some students practicing for their proficiencies and think it is a good idea to have a little experience in the examination room. Like I said the students there are really cool and when they don't have patients to examine in there room, they are willing to teach you how to do an eye exam and will let you do retinoscopy and use the slit lamp on them. Third years do make mistakes because they are third year students, but you do learn from them because the preceptor corrects them. I've shadowed for a while and everytime I come in I always learn something new and so do the optometry students. An example of this is that I have seen many older women come in with dry eye problems. I learn that its natural for older women to dry up and some things that would help are artificial tears or flaxseed oil and if its really severe than they can be prescribed restasis. When I went to an optometry school interview I sat in one of the 2nd year's classes. The professor in the class went through a list of practicing scenarios and it had to do with this exact dry eye problem. I sat in a couple classes and noticed a bunch of overlapping topics in which I saw while shadowing.


Doc Watson,

I have read some of your posts especially the ones about the new optometry schools popping up. I totally agree that we should not let all these new schools pop up because it creates a higher population of Optometrists, but that is happening with all health care professions. We should most definitely speak up about the new schools. The only thing I don't agree with you is your opinion on our 10 year job outlook. There are plenty of cities that still need optometrists, it may not be the city you wish live in, but they need optometrists. I don't like how certain people on the SDN forums are considering dropping out of optometry school because of your opinion on our job outlook. Maybe its your method of weeding out future O.D.'s. http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=456680
In the end, if you want to have a relaxing laid back optometry job with decent pay your going to have to work hard for it, because that means your going have to work hard for it. Optometry is a BUSINESS. And with a business theres a big amount of risk and there is ALWAYs competition. Whatever you do there is always going to be competition. Working retail is great and all because you have a set salary. Compared to working a private practice where you have no limit to how much you can make, but you also don't have a minimum amount that you can make. I don't expect to just go through optometry school and just follow the motions and expect to work where I want right when I get out. I would like to network and be active in optometry related organizations, because thats how successful business people do it. This post is getting kind of long, so I think i'll cut it off here. I'm just trying to lighten the negativity I see about optometry in this forum.

 

[docwatson]

Being in your office I would think most of your patients would rather have just an optometrist there due to confidentiality reasons, whereas at the clinic they are being examined by students and are more open to students shadowing. The doctor I shadow has a very wide scope in optometry and I've learned so much from him.

Overall, I'm not saying shadowing a private practice or working at a private practice is not a good idea. I think it's awesome for learning the business aspect of optometry. But I think the clinic helps more with the educational part of optometry.

I have read some of your posts especially the ones about the new optometry schools popping up. I totally agree that we should not let all these new schools pop up because it creates a higher population of Optometrists, but that is happening with all health care professions. We should most definitely speak up about the new schools. The only thing I don't agree with you is your opinion on our 10 year job outlook. There are plenty of cities that still need optometrists, it may not be the city you wish live in, but they need optometrists. I don't like how certain people on the SDN forums are considering dropping out of optometry school because of your opinion on our job outlook.

Wow, lot to talk about here... I really am on your side so don't get me wrong with this post...

Patients in my office expect to have an assistant in the room, and other than to assist me clinically, one of the biggest reasons is for protection. Getting a frivolous complaint from a crazy person about inappropriate touching can destroy your practice. It does not require much believe me. I was accused of assault because one of my ex-crazy employees claimed that I shoved here after she was having a fit during office hours telling everyone to quit. I put my hand towards her shoulder and showed her the door. I simply said, "You are going to have to leave." Another loyal assistant told the police that I didn't even touch her. Clearly, if she would have had her way, my license and my reputation would have been harmed. The cop rolled his eyes thinking he was a fool for even coming down.

I just had a friend who went down in flames recently and it is really sad. He just built a 4,000 sq. ft. state of the art office and it is now up for sale after being accused of sexual battery--nothing proven here--just accused. It is total baloney but it has destroyed his career. Topic for another thread...

Confidentiality is extremely important and that's why all staff members sign confidentiality statements before they begin working with me. Anyone in health care is bound by the same ethical and moral judgments.

I do not work in an area that has a lot of patients who would have a lot of confidential information to report. And even if they did, there is a trust factor that has been built up over the years, and my patients are smart enough to bring me aside and tell me if there is anything I should know.

About the future...

There are areas that are in need of optometrists, no doubt about this. But you have to be realistic here. If the general public doesn't want to live there, then why would an optometrist? The trend over the last 100 years has been to live in urban areas. Rural areas and small towns are dying. It's a sad reality.

Would graduating more optometrists lead to a spill-over effect into these areas? I suppose if there were enough starving optometrists in our major cities, I suppose it might, but it will bring down the entire profession for this to happen. Let' say it takes a doubling of optometrists in our cities before people start moving further out into those needy areas. That means economically it wasn't feasible for an OD to work there so if doctors want to see everyone's income drop considerably, then let's all work towards creating more schools and graduating more optometrists.

If there is money to be had, believe me, there will be an optometrist there to take advantage of the situation. Don't think that ODs don't want to practice in an area just because they don't want to live there, it's because there is no money in it! You have to be able to sustain your practice or there is no point in practicing and not everyone wants or needs to be a millionaire. I was one of those optometrists who seriously considered moving to an underserved area. I love our small towns and rural areas. Unfortunately, 1) I couldn't find one, 2) There was no money in doing it. Optometrists really are everywhere. I don't think you are going to find an area that is truly underserved. What you will find is either an area that has an adequate number or too many. Never less.

Students need to hear the true stories because they certainly aren't going to get the information from the schools. Sure you are hearing a lot of negative stories because they are TRUE. Students need to be realistic that their $150,000+ loans may be dogging them for a long time because it may become harder to pay them off as time goes by. There is no guaranty that salaries will be maintained 10-20 years from now. We might all be very sorry that we built so many schools and flooded the market with ODs. You won't see the effects now.

I truly love the profession, we need optometry, and we need more optometrists, but not at the expense of killing the profession. Our strength is in having the right amount of ODs so that private practice will continue and we will be economically strong enough to hire new graduates with decent salaries which will have an effect on commercial interests, and we will have the strength to fend off the cheap vision plans because we will all be making enough to not take them. Note that I offered to take in students who want to learn about optometry. I'm not against optometry or optometry students. I'm against those who want to build more schools, turn our ODs into optical slaves, and throw us measly scraps for income.

If your state really thinks that there are underserved areas, then clearly building new schools is not the answer. That's crazy thinking. The best thing that can be done is for the state to ADVERTISE that you will be subsidized to practice in an underserved area. While I'm not a proponent of bigger government or silly programs like this, it would be better at attacking the problem directly. People are building more schools for economics and prestige, nothing more, and unfortunately, there's not a darn thing we can do about it.