How long will companies operate like this? and whats the plan?

[sozetone]

Guys,

I'm wondering how long the companies like CVS, WAGS, and WM will operate like this? i mean, barely enough staff to run the Rx's for the day. Then they ask you to be clinical tester. Immunizer, screener.........etc, and on and on right? maybe like me you gotta manage too. (scheduling, Meeting KPI'S, meetings....whatever)........

What do you think is the over all agenda here and how long will it go on before they collapse the pharmacies?

My theory is simply they are trying to burn out the current stock of over paid pharmacists (by todays pa.y scale). by cutting to make profit goals now, they also put huge strain on the left over good performers. Those good performers were probably hired by 2017 or before....the cuts started late 17 into 18.........so the bulk of their staff pharms are making 60---70$ (or more for long timers) an hour! probably averaging like 65$/hr staff. Is'nt it wise from a business perspective to get the F**K rid of us and replace with current market value pharmacists? or keep paying wages from years ago? Am i being a conspiracy theorist here? lol.

Thanks..

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[mentos]

I mean, they got rid of the Wal-Mart greeters who make $9/hr so of course they want to get rid of pharmacists who make $20/hr more than new grads.

 

[wagrxm2000]

You realize the only thing that matters is profits right? Have to impress the stockholders.

As long as reimbursement sucks and continues to hurt us, they will continue to cut, it's that simple.

Oh and if you follow initiatives, you shouldn't feel the cuts but you knew that since you are awesome right?

 

[Sine Cura]

Cutting hours is an initiative.

 

[grumpyRph]

There are probably going to be a lot more “PIP” posts coming back. Performance improvement plans. Yeeeesh.

 

[Sine Cura]

Walmart implemented a Net Promoter Score system recently for pharmacy and low performers are already having to implement action plans and getting vists and NPS is a huge chunk of the eval for this year.

Remember Walmart is the worst-rated out of any retail chain in Consumer Reports. They want NCO, which is great when you have downtime to clean and your staff is knowledgable, efficient, and gives a **** and isn't a bunch of failed single mothers who just want to work the bare minimum to keep CalWORKS or the equiv outside of California, but meanwhile the pharmacy exists within a EBT-magnet zoo.

 

[sozetone]

~So like i was asking, what is the over all goal of these companies here. I mean, yeah they are saving money, but it feels like a whole lot more than that,,,,, whats your opinion? they got us on the hit list or what? They cannot operate like this for a long period of time ya know? eventually they are gonna cut so hard and deep that they fail, (they are almost there) so whats up here?

And yeah sine i know all about NPS. I'm just gonna have my techs cherry pick people for the surveys....like we did QPF....that should work right?

 

[Sine Cura]

The only way to "cherry pick" surveys is to talk about it with the few regulars that actually like you and obviously don't ask people that hate you to do surveys.

Walmart pharmacy as currently configured is done and teetering on the edge of a cliff. The incipient recession will be the last push.

 

[sozetone]

LOL, i dont do PIP's...... i just quit. 2 weeks... i can easily transition back to Florida. I know what a PIP is all about....

 

[sozetone]

The only way to "cherry pick" surveys is to talk about it with the few regulars that actually like you and obviously don't ask people that hate you to do surveys.

Walmart pharmacy as currently configured is done and teetering on the edge of a cliff. The incipient recession will be the last push.

Yeah im kinda feeling that myself.....they have the most "robust" system to process Rx's.....

The only way to "cherry pick" surveys is to talk about it with the few regulars that actually like you and obviously don't ask people that hate you to do surveys.

Walmart pharmacy as currently configured is done and teetering on the edge of a cliff. The incipient recession will be the last push.

You think NPS is a way to oust pharmacists?

 

[wagrxm2000]

~So like i was asking, what is the over all goal of these companies here. I mean, yeah they are saving money, but it feels like a whole lot more than that,,,,, whats your opinion? they got us on the hit list or what? They cannot operate like this for a long period of time ya know? eventually they are gonna cut so hard and deep that they fail, (they are almost there) so whats up here?

And yeah sine i know all about NPS. I'm just gonna have my techs cherry pick people for the surveys....like we did QPF....that should work right?

Either you need to take me off ignore or listen to what I said.

So again the goal is profits and with reimbursement continuing to hurt, the only way to fix it is cuts.

I can see my entire districts numbers and stores are not "struggling".

 

[lord999]

You realize the only thing that matters is profits right? Have to impress the stockholders.

As long as reimbursement sucks and continues to hurt us, they will continue to cut, it's that simple.

Oh and if you follow initiatives, you shouldn't feel the cuts but you knew that since you are awesome right?

I agree, but I’d turn that argument a bit as well. I’m curious how low they can go before a serious reinvention occurs. Are NACDS members collectively Blockbuster in a Netflix era?

I have to say if CVS and Walgreens don’t also work on finding new models of profitability, they will run out of time as the current model has an expense floor that going under causes a circle of death. Cuts to the floor is only a time strategy, a business must have a sustainable profitable model to survive and convince customers to pay in, that’s why you can’t drink Walgreens soda fountains anymore because they were racist. (I haven’t lost my mind, read up on Civil Rights sit ins and where they occurred as Walgreens never recovered from that blow to their restaurant business as the model was whites only, and Walgreens couldn’t change that perception.)

I think about how viable Circuit City was until they committed organizational suicide by bad business decisions, like changing incentive structures and cutting key personnel who drove sales. I can see the chains do similar things if they stop thinking about the core business. But especially for CVS as they have diversified profit centers, there could be a day where retail pharmacy is not a core business. Walgreens does not have that flexibility and their last foray into labs failed spectacularly

 

[APN-59 rph]

If Pharmacy becomes a net loss and the theory of "drawing customers to the shopping experience" starts to fail..then Adios...And A Diablo to management...If and when this happens will be decided soon ish....WAG's who knows? they started as a pharmacy..

 

[sozetone]

Either you need to take me off ignore or listen to what I said.

So again the goal is profits and with reimbursement continuing to hurt, the only way to fix it is cuts.

I can see my entire districts numbers and stores are not "struggling".

I ignore you because you are an arrogant, know it all little Pr**k. You assume everything before you know the facts. You just talk without thinking.,...making blanket statements, it;s just ignorant and i have no time for it. thanks!

 

[sozetone]

My district and Market for WM is top in the nation by the way. Check it out if you know where im at. And, no thats not all my doing, I never claimed to be "awesome", just good at what i do, just like Wagsrx!

 

[wagrxm2000]

I ignore you because you are an arrogant, know it all little Pr**k. You assume everything before you know the facts. You just talk without thinking.,...making blanket statements, it;s just ignorant and i have no time for it. thanks!

Sorry that I speak the truth.

Look people like to complain here and hate their job. That's all I get from your posts so I'm going to be straight forward everytime. You post here and want people to simply agree with you. I get that but I'm not going to do that.

People need to understand that if they follow their companies initiatives, everything will work out. It's why I continue to not struggle even though my hours are also getting cut.

 

[wagrxm2000]

I agree, but I’d turn that argument a bit as well. I’m curious how low they can go before a serious reinvention occurs. Are NACDS members collectively Blockbuster in a Netflix era?

I have to say if CVS and Walgreens don’t also work on finding new models of profitability, they will run out of time as the current model has an expense floor that going under causes a circle of death. Cuts to the floor is only a time strategy, a business must have a sustainable profitable model to survive and convince customers to pay in, that’s why you can’t drink Walgreens soda fountains anymore because they were racist. (I haven’t lost my mind, read up on Civil Rights sit ins and where they occurred as Walgreens never recovered from that blow to their restaurant business as the model was whites only, and Walgreens couldn’t change that perception.)

I think about how viable Circuit City was until they committed organizational suicide by bad business decisions, like changing incentive structures and cutting key personnel who drove sales. I can see the chains do similar things if they stop thinking about the core business. But especially for CVS as they have diversified profit centers, there could be a day where retail pharmacy is not a core business. Walgreens does not have that flexibility and their last foray into labs failed spectacularly

The goal for these chains is pretty clear. Move beyond pharmacy and into other fields.

At some point you will see in all major areas minute clinics (which are already everywhere), dental and optics clinics.

As for the hour cuts, they will only burn out the stores that don't keep up. If you look at Walgreens, they want everyone to get their scripts the same day, get a text when they are ready and everyone get 90 days.

The amount of time saved just from those things will allow so many hours to be cut. If stores don't do it, well they will struggle.

 

[M0df]

OP. I think you are just starting to go through your 7 stages of grief. CVS, then Wags, have done exact same thing years earlier when they drastically reduced staffing levels. There is more turnover but only corporate knows exact numbers. They probably think it is at acceptable levels. Some turnover is actually healthy for the bottom line. You are making predictions on a very small sample size here. It is fine if you need to vent though. But just that you know, if your job was open in my area, I would apply. Almost everything you describe is actually better than my current job.

I am further along in dealing with grief process btw. I have to thank CVS for starting me on that path early.

 

[Cookiecatfromouterspace]

I don’t think their plan is to oust all the Pharmacists who make a lot of money. I agree with wagrxm2000 that they will continue to cut hours until they make enough revenue to keep their stockholders happy. What is enough? Who knows it may never be enough if they don’t get enough from reimbursement. I think the problem with retail is that companies want to use pharmacy to make profit. It’s really hard to make a profit when you’re mostly dealing with the government and insurance companies whose job is to make sure they pay the least amount for healthcare, specially drugs. In the Hospital side of things pharmacy is not viewed as a profit generator. And the way that Hospital pharmacies make a “profit” is by making sure that the pharmacy operates under budget. Cost savings. There’s many ways to ensure savings but less ways to generate income. Retail companies will continue to do this as long as pharmacists let them and there’s an oversupply of pharmacists. We need all the old folk to retire and stop being greedy and we need less new pharmacists. Simple supply and demand.

 

[sozetone]

OP. I think you are just starting to go through your 7 stages of grief. CVS, then Wags, have done exact same thing years earlier when they drastically reduced staffing levels. There is more turnover but only corporate knows exact numbers. They probably think it is at acceptable levels. Some turnover is actually healthy for the bottom line. You are making predictions on a very small sample size here. It is fine if you need to vent though. But just that you know, if your job was open in my area, I would apply. Almost everything you describe is actually better than my current job.

I am further along in dealing with grief process btw. I have to thank CVS for starting me on that path early.

What i described applies to all chains. And have you worked as a manager for WM? if no, then your not qualified to comment on what "my job" is like compared to yours. This thread is not a pissing contest. i'm asking your opinion on what is the overall desired result of theses companies by doing what they are doing. Beyond saving money, by cutting labor. There is more to this than that. so please, thrill me with your acumen.

 

[wagrxm2000]

What i described applies to all chains. And have you worked as a manager for WM? if no, then your not qualified to comment on what "my job" is like compared to yours. This thread is not a pissing contest. i'm asking your opinion on what is the overall desired result of theses companies by doing what they are doing. Beyond saving money, by cutting labor. There is more to this than that. so please, thrill me with your acumen.

I love this guy. Some people just can't handle critique

 

[M0df]

First you say it applies to all chains. In the next sentence you ask if I worked for WM as a manager to discredit my point... which one is it?

You are right. It is not a pissing contest that is why I don't see the need to describe my current or previous work conditions. But as was pointed out to you, as bad as it has become at WM, it can get worse.

You answered your own question on why these companies are doing it. Others agree with you. Is there more you are looking for? Yes. It is capitalism. They don't feel additional payroll expense will bring in enough return because they think same work can be done with less.

 

[sozetone]

I love this guy. Some people just can't handle critique

No this guy did not critique me at all, i never explained "my job" either......he just strayed off topic and gave me a hard time......Sorta like all your posts wags...! There was a topic and a question posted. remember?

 

[sozetone]

First you say it applies to all chains. In the next sentence you ask if I worked for WM as a manager to discredit my point... which one is it?

You are right. It is not a pissing contest that is why I don't see the need to describe my current or previous work conditions. But as was pointed out to you, as bad as it has become at WM, it can get worse.

You answered your own question on why these companies are doing it. Others agree with you. Is there more you are looking for? Yes. It is capitalism. They don't feel additional payroll expense will bring in enough return because they think same work can be done with less.

Hey you and wags should get together and have a beer.......

 

[M0df]

We probably should. I can learn from him on how he adapted to Walgreens business and is making it work for him.

 

[sozetone]

I mean, they got rid of the Wal-Mart greeters who make $9/hr so of course they want to get rid of pharmacists who make $20/hr more than new grads.

Actually man, a lot of those guys were making 20+/hr, and you know why.....because they were old and it was the last job you could do with minimal physical work requirements. Thats why they changed the job requirements. No kidding... my greeters were mostly making large hourly rates.....the literally broke their backs working for wal mart, then settled into this position until retirement....We took pictures and i got them lunch and stuff as they were being ousted......I felt terrible for them. But yeah some will have been short timers at 9-13/hr and that looks good in case any class action law suits pop up. You can target everyone if say 80% are overpaid by the new standard ya know? Same as we see with pharmacists.

 

[nextyearrx]

Guys,

I'm wondering how long the companies like CVS, WAGS, and WM will operate like this? i mean, barely enough staff to run the Rx's for the day. Then they ask you to be clinical tester. Immunizer, screener.........etc, and on and on right? maybe like me you gotta manage too. (scheduling, Meeting KPI'S, meetings....whatever)........

What do you think is the over all agenda here and how long will it go on before they collapse the pharmacies?

My theory is simply they are trying to burn out the current stock of over paid pharmacists (by todays pa.y scale). by cutting to make profit goals now, they also put huge strain on the left over good performers. Those good performers were probably hired by 2017 or before....the cuts started late 17 into 18.........so the bulk of their staff pharms are making 60---70$ (or more for long timers) an hour! probably averaging like 65$/hr staff. Is'nt it wise from a business perspective to get the F**K rid of us and replace with current market value pharmacists? or keep paying wages from years ago? Am i being a conspiracy theorist here? lol.

Thanks..

How many tech hours does your store have?

I have seen 178 tech hours for 2300 scripts weekly volume

 

[SoylentGreen]

They are going to push us as hard as they can for as long as they can. It'll get worse. The people who can't handle it will be pushed out. The people who get burnt out will be replaced by the reserve army of unemployed pharmacists. Maybe there's some extra nastiness in store for longer term staff who get paid more, I don't know, but this applies to everybody.

I handled a day by myself recently where another pharmacist called in, so we ran 5 less than what were supposed to get (s3g), without it getting too bad, which makes me think more pharmacist hours cuts are in store.

And they're right - I'm not going to quit anytime soon because I would take a big pay cut going anywhere else. I've been around enough to know that our working conditions really are worse than almost anybody else's, but we still get paid a lot more than a lot of people who work at jobs that are no picnic either.

 

[sozetone]

We probably should. I can learn from him on how he adapted to Walgreens business and is making it work for him.

Cmon pal... no one is "Adapting", they are just hanging on until they are forced into a position of un-employment. Some will be longer than others, and the companies will always have a "reason".... thats the end result for all of us currently working. Longevity is no longer a thing....your only fooling yourself if you keep pushing and assuming you will make it through because you are good at your job.

They are going to push us as hard as they can for as long as they can. It'll get worse. The people who can't handle it will be pushed out. The people who get burnt out will be replaced by the reserve army of unemployed pharmacists. Maybe there's some extra nastiness in store for longer term staff who get paid more, I don't know, but this applies to everybody.

I handled a day by myself recently where another pharmacist called in, so we ran 5 less than what were supposed to get (s3g), without it getting too bad, which makes me think more pharmacist hours cuts are in store.

And they're right - I'm not going to quit anytime soon because I would take a big pay cut going anywhere else. I've been around enough to know that our working conditions really are worse than almost anybody else's, but we still get paid a lot more than a lot of people who work at jobs that are no picnic either.

Well your def with WM like me, managing here in BFE , CO. Got us cut down hard....its a nasty system to operate single coverage now.....Connexus is a beast , the constant interruptions to counsel, answer phones, help fill, bag, on top of four point and visual verification.....jeez man. Taking out the trash, vacuuming, on and on....I was a tech since 1997 and registered PharmD since 2012, i would never stay on as a tech these days....and yeah CVS and WAGS people have it very hard, but dont understand the difference in working at WM......

 

[sozetone]

How many tech hours does your store have?

I have seen 178 tech hours for 2300 scripts weekly volume

197 hours 1800--2000/wk but at wal mart man..... it's different if your not at WM... i promise....and if you are, you are working with way too little tech hours during flu season...i had nearly 400 in 2017 when i started! so cmon man..... this is getting ridiculous.

 

[Sine Cura]

I am not going to comment on individual stores' script volume, but if you are using 90-day equivalent numbers LOL. Even more LOL if filled not sold.

190-200 per 1600 sold real Rx count. 32 per weekday, 24 on Saturday and 16 Sunday (weekends are key days to complete basic inventory management tasks and other routine weekly/monthly matters). If everyone can do everything (no unlicensed people that have limited functions), get RR and digital engagement to passable numbers, it's doable barring dumpster fire ghetto stores especially in LOLCalifornia with RPH overlap. RPHs cannot be slugs and have to keep techs in line too. 8.5 tech hours sold per 1 Rx is doable but not "gonna stand here and do nothing else" doable.

A few weeks ago we spiked to 2k fills but that isn't Rx sold and bumping hrs up is a no go anyway

Example: I looked up a "random" store's Q3 P&L and see 6600 Rx sold and 729 support hours (rough estimate) based on the prevailing starting rate for techs so 9 Rx per tech hr. That was CA though

 

[wagrxm2000]

Cmon pal... no one is "Adapting", they are just hanging on until they are forced into a position of un-employment. Some will be longer than others, and the companies will always have a "reason".... thats the end result for all of us currently working. Longevity is no longer a thing....your only fooling yourself if you keep pushing and assuming you will make it through because you are good at your job.


Well your def with WM like me, managing here in BFE , CO. Got us cut down hard....its a nasty system to operate single coverage now.....Connexus is a beast , the constant interruptions to counsel, answer phones, help fill, bag, on top of four point and visual verification.....jeez man. Taking out the trash, vacuuming, on and on....I was a tech since 1997 and registered PharmD since 2012, i would never stay on as a tech these days....and yeah CVS and WAGS people have it very hard, but dont understand the difference in working at WM......

Nope we're adapting, life has never been better at my store

Sorry just because you can't adapt doesn't mean others aren't able to.

 

[owlegrad]

life has never been better at my store.

So life improved after they cut hours? Makes sense. Who wants all that pesky help around just holding up counters.

 

[mentos]

Nope we're adapting, life has never been better at my store

Sorry just because you can't adapt doesn't mean others aren't able to.

Never??? Even before flu shots?

 

[wagrxm2000]

So life improved after they cut hours? Makes sense. Who wants all that pesky help around just holding up counters.

Never??? Even before flu shots?

I wouldn't know what to do with myself if I had all those hours still with the way we run now.

The intern does the flu shots. I highly recommend having one. I usually precept 2 during flu season.

 

[Sine Cura]

Walmart doesn't even hire interns anymore, as in those in school

 

[wagrxm2000]

Walmart doesn't even hire interns anymore, as in those in school

They don't allow precepting?

 

[SoylentGreen]

They don't allow precepting?

They do allow precepting of students on rotation. I don't know about interns who work for pay.

 

[SoylentGreen]

Example: I looked up a "random" store's Q3 P&L and see 6600 Rx sold and 729 support hours (rough estimate) based on the prevailing starting rate for techs so 9 Rx per tech hr. That was CA though

We get a little more than that but we are serious about the 90 day fills for everyone who qualifies for it. I know not everybody is really executing this. Also no partial fills unless they ask for it. I feel like our tech help is adequate.

 

[quickpic007]

Walmart doesn't even hire interns anymore, as in those in school

I heard this too but couldn't confirm...When did this start?

 

[Sine Cura]

• California Northstate is apparently too good to send APPE community interns to crappy locations
• You can always use extra hours to clean especially if boss is picky about dust, shiny sink, no cobwebs on signs etc
• Sorry, I meant that the intern thing is allegedly NO external hires for interns (from MHWD). Theoretically if you were a tech you may still be hired (I am still trying to place a former tech as an intern)

 

[Bubba98]

I wouldn't know what to do with myself if I had all those hours still with the way we run now.

The intern does the flu shots. I highly recommend having one. I usually precept 2 during flu season.

Key to adapting to budget cuts. Either you have access to students and utilize them or you don't and sink. They are a necessity in all mandatory counseling states during flu season with budget cuts. The DMs should be QBing this to make sure all their stores are eligible for interns and assist RxMs in the rotation program.

 

[Sine Cura]

Unless the school intern is the counsel or immunization bitch I wouldn't want them working in the pharmacy because otherwise they are probably gonna be useless (can't type, can't fill productively, can't do insurance, hope they can actually do a counsel and project confidence w/o the customer starting to freak out)

California pharmacists at WM have it pretty cush though. When the state of California mandates meal periods, 1.5x/2x OT and maximum tech filler to pharmacist ratios, it's "surprising" how corporations are able to minimize costs given those restraints... for now.

I don't even get the choice of working 12-13 hrs shifts (I much vastly prefer that to working 8 hour shifts 5 days a week). I only 4-pt 120-260 Rx a day depending on how ****ty the other pharmacist is.

inb4 "do you even DUR?"

 

[wagrxm2000]

Unless the school intern is the counsel or immunization bitch I wouldn't want them working in the pharmacy because otherwise they are probably gonna be useless (can't type, can't fill productively, can't do insurance, hope they can actually do a counsel and project confidence w/o the customer starting to freak out)

California pharmacists at WM have it pretty cush though. When the state of California mandates meal periods, 1.5x/2x OT and maximum tech filler to pharmacist ratios, it's "surprising" how corporations are able to minimize costs given those restraints... for now.

I don't even get the choice of working 12-13 hrs shifts (I much vastly prefer that to working 8 hour shifts 5 days a week). I only 4-pt 120-260 Rx a day depending on how ****ty the other pharmacist is.

inb4 "do you even DUR?"

My interns don't do tech work, they help with my work so I have more time with my customers and so I can sit and eat.

Also it's not hard to fill if needed.

 

[Sine Cura]

So what would that be aside from what I already mentioned? Phone Rx? Transfers? Call offices and tell them to do their ****ing job?

 

[wagrxm2000]

So what would that be aside from what I already mentioned? Phone Rx? Transfers? Call offices and tell them to do their ****ing job?

My interns review, verify, immunizations, transfers, counsel, etc and only fill as needed.

They have their own school work too like journal club etc.

 

[BidingMyTime]

My interns review, verify, immunizations, transfers, counsel, etc and only fill as needed.
They have their own school work too like journal club etc.

You are letting them verify under your license? I don't trust anyone that much, especially students that I don't even know. If I am legally responsible for something, then I will do the final verifying of it.

 

[wagrxm2000]

You are letting them verify under your license? I don't trust anyone that much, especially students that I don't even know. If I am legally responsible for something, then I will do the final verifying of it.

Nothing against our profession but anyone can look at a tablet and make sure the lettering matches what the computer says.

 

[Bubba98]

Nothing against our profession but anyone can look at a tablet and make sure the lettering matches what the computer says.

I may be getting old but back in the day it was easy to differentiate brand name tablets but now every generic is tiny and white and I can't see s###

 

[wagrxm2000]

I may be getting old but back in the day it was easy to differentiate brand name tablets but now every generic is tiny and white and I can't see s###

We have a magnifying lens when needed.