How low is too low?

[Cloud 9]

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Regarding the MCAT. I've seen quite a bit of 24s get accepted, has anyone gotten in with lower or know someone who has?

 

[cabinbuilder]

Regarding the MCAT. I've seen quite a bit of 24s get accepted, has anyone gotten in with lower or know someone who has?

I was accepted with a 24, my classmate was accepted with a 17 (unusual circumstances and they had friends on the admissions committee). Had a 4.0 in college with a learning disability.

 

[nicolemsm]

I was accepted with a 24, my classmate was accepted with a 17 (unusual circumstances and they had friends on the admissions committee). Had a 4.0 in college with a learning disability.

j/w how have they fared on the boards?

i know people are always 'trying' *keyword: trying* to correlate mcat scores w/ step performances, has this person been able to pull through successfully?

 

[gmcguitar4]

I mean...24 is pretty low. I got that before I even started studying for it. If you have a great GPA and other stand-out EC's then you have a better shot.

 

[cabinbuilder]

j/w how have they fared on the boards?

i know people are always 'trying' *keyword: trying* to correlate mcat scores w/ step performances, has this person been able to pull through successfully?

I passed all steps of the boards the first time and the board certifying exam the first time.

My friend passed as well and is board certified.

 

[nicolemsm]

I passed all steps of the boards the first time and the board certifying exam the first time.

My friend passed as well and is board certified.

congrats! 👍 i love hearing success stories...


personally i'm not much of a standardized test fan, yet each step of education seems to weigh these tests so heavily.

 

[MedPR]

Keep in mind that cabinbuilder is now an attending, so his/her 24 is quite a few years ago. Chances are much slimmer now with a 24.

A 25 with >6 should get you in somewhere.

 

[angldrps]

I was accepted with a 24, my classmate was accepted with a 17 (unusual circumstances and they had friends on the admissions committee). Had a 4.0 in college with a learning disability.

😱

 

[NightGod]

congrats! 👍 i love hearing success stories...


personally i'm not much of a standardized test fan, yet each step of education seems to weigh these tests so heavily.

This is because there is no better way to take students that have had hundreds or thousands of different educational backgrounds and get a baseline comparison of their academic abilities. While it's not a perfect system by any means, it's about as close as we're able to get.

 

[UrshumMurshum]

For all intents and purposes anything below a 23 is too low, even for the new D.O. schools. Do people get in with less than a 23? Yes, but it's a rare event and not worth spending your money on such a gamble. A 23 itself is going to be difficult but depending on the rest of your application, you might fare well and get into one of the schools that are less selective towards MCAT.

 

[WorldChanger36]

24 is too low. 27 or higher is recommended.

 

[MedPR]

congrats! 👍 i love hearing success stories...


personally i'm not much of a standardized test fan, yet each step of education seems to weigh these tests so heavily.

Probably because it's the only standardized way to evaluate applicants...

 

[cabinbuilder]

Keep in mind that cabinbuilder is now an attending, so his/her 24 is quite a few years ago. Chances are much slimmer now with a 24.

A 25 with >6 should get you in somewhere.

This is true. I agree that trying to get into med school with a 24 today is a huge gamble. I'm pretty sure that I got in because I had a great story and was from Alaska

 

[HalfListic]

This is true. I agree that trying to get into med school with a 24 today is a huge gamble. I'm pretty sure that I got in because I had a great story and was from Alaska

Yeah, I remember reading your PS somewhere on this forum a while back. Pretty great stuff!

 

[MedPR]

Yeah, I remember reading your PS somewhere on this forum a while back. Pretty great stuff!

Yea, his residency essay was amazing too.

 

[UrshumMurshum]

Yea, his residency essay was amazing too.

I think Cabinbuilder is a she.

 

[cabinbuilder]

I think Cabinbuilder is a she.

Yes, I am a she. See my avatar <-------? It's the cabin my MOM built by herself. Amazing even to me.

 

[Goro]

One of our all-time best students had a 23. We've probably had even lower at times, but these were legacies or "specials".

Regarding the MCAT. I've seen quite a bit of 24s get accepted, has anyone gotten in with lower or know someone who has?

 

[MedPR]

I think Cabinbuilder is a she.

Oh.. Sorry!

 

[user3]

22 or lower is redline.

 

[bijoux22]

I mean...24 is pretty low. I got that before I even started studying for it. If you have a great GPA and other stand-out EC's then you have a better shot.

i

 

[Sandstorm]

Good for you for boasting yourself up while putting others (including me) down. My significant other applied with a 24 and got 3 acceptances last year. I am currently applying with a 24 and I have hope!.....

I thought this forum was for encouraging and supporting others who are going through the same stressful process *smdh guess I was wrong.

It is, but it also tends to serve up some cold, hard, bitter truth.

A 24 without some other standout portion of your application is almost a no-go.

With a wonderful GPA or ec's / etc your chances are boosted, but it is ESSENTIAL you apply early and to many schools.


What percentage does a 24 put you at? Not an absolutely direct correlation but If you're for example 70th percentile...

Compare the number of applicants to number of spots. do 70% of applicants get in? Nope. So you need other portions to pull your application up.


Best of luck

 

[MedPR]

Good for you for boasting yourself up while putting others (including me) down. My significant other applied with a 24 and got 3 acceptances last year. I am currently applying with a 24 and I have hope!.....

I thought this forum was for encouraging and supporting others who are going through the same stressful process *smdh guess I was wrong.

Dude, a 24 is low. The average test taker gets a 25.1. The average TEST TAKER, gets a 25.1. Anything BELOW the average is LOW by definition.

The truth hurts sometimes, but that doesn't make it any less true.

 

[Keeponchuggin]

message deleted

 

[QualityProcess]

This is the pre-DO forum, OP. We're primarily concerned with getting scores that are too good for DO schools. 😉

 

[Mbeas]

Dude, a 24 is low. The average test taker gets a 25.1. The average TEST TAKER, gets a 25.1. Anything BELOW the average is LOW by definition.

Exactly. Some people have trouble calling a spade a spade.

 

[TealC]

True story,

Have a friend who got accepted into MSU COM with a 2.6 cGPA, and a 24 on the MCAT.

What was his/her background/story?

 

[coolingglasses]

This is true. I agree that trying to get into med school with a 24 today is a huge gamble. I'm pretty sure that I got in because I had a great story and was from Alaska

being an Alaska resident is practically a URM right?

only kidding 😉

Good for you for boasting yourself up while putting others (including me) down. My significant other applied with a 24 and got 3 acceptances last year. I am currently applying with a 24 and I have hope!.....

I thought this forum was for encouraging and supporting others who are going through the same stressful process *smdh guess I was wrong.

Maybe he didn't have to say he got that score unprepped, but it's not a spectacular score. 24 by itself doesn't take you out of the game but you'd definitely have to have other bright spots to back it up.

 

[Machine33]

Good for you for boasting yourself up while putting others (including me) down. My significant other applied with a 24 and got 3 acceptances last year. I am currently applying with a 24 and I have hope!.....

I thought this forum was for encouraging and supporting others who are going through the same stressful process *smdh guess I was wrong.

I'm right there with you, man. I am applying with a 24 as well but as long as you applied early and have a balanced application, you should be getting some love too. Although we are not underdogs, it is really hard to not feel like one as I'm sure you can relate to with the way everyone speaks of a 24... It is a low score but it's not too low to hinder you from getting looked at (as your significant other can obviously vouche for 👍)

 

[user3]

True story,

Have a friend who got accepted into MSU COM with a 2.6 cGPA, and a 24 on the MCAT.

This year?

 

[HalfListic]

True story,

Have a friend who got accepted into MSU COM with a 2.6 cGPA, and a 24 on the MCAT.

This is either not true, or not a full story,

Nothing against you Keepon, I just can't seem to believe this


...those stats won't get you anywhere, anywhere.

 

[Ost3oclast]

This is either not true, or not a full story,

Nothing against you Keepon, I just can't seem to believe this


...those stats won't get you anywhere, anywhere.

Thats what I'm saying. A 24? maybe if coupled with a great GPA and such. But a 24 with a GPA that bad? No. Especially to MSU.

 

[MedPR]

True story,

Have a friend who got accepted into MSU COM with a 2.6 cGPA, and a 24 on the MCAT.

I got into JHU with a 3.14/33, but deferred because I thought it wasn't fair to people with 4.0/43.

 

[MURedHawk10]

A 24 does seem low but to say it is too low to get accepted is not true. Pikeville lists their average MCAT at 24, I believe LMUs average is 24 too. VCOM has a 25 average as well as WVSOM. I think William and Carey lists around a 25 as well. Though there is more to a matriculant than their MCAT score, a 24 can certainly get you into a school and seeing the averages it looks like its not as rare as people on here make it sound.

 

[HalfListic]

A 24 does seem low but to say it is too low to get accepted is not true. Pikeville lists their average MCAT at 24, I believe LMUs average is 24 too. VCOM has a 25 average as well as WVSOM. I think William and Carey lists around a 25 as well. Though there is more to a matriculant than their MCAT score, a 24 can certainly get you into a school and seeing the averages it looks like its not as rare as people on here make it sound.

We're not talking about a 24...we're talking about a 24 with a 2.6 Gpa. Big big difference.

And the 2.6 is the more unbelievable part

 

[MedPR]

I really wish people would stop saying that a 24 "seems" low. A 24 is low. It's below the average test taker score. You can list the handful of schools with a 24 matriculant average, but that doesn't change the fact that a 24 is a below average score. You're not getting in with a 2.6/24.

Edit: And if you do get in with a 24, you stand out somewhere whether it be your GPA, an EC, residency, something. Anyone getting in with a 24 is special in some way or another. An otherwise average or normal applicant is not going anywhere with a 24 MCAT.

If you have a 24 and are offended by what I'm saying that's fine. It honestly doesn't matter if you think I'm mean or harsh or whatever else. A 24 is LOW. Period.

 

[MURedHawk10]

I really wish people would stop saying that a 24 "seems" low. A 24 is low. It's below the average test taker score. You can list the handful of schools with a 24 matriculant average, but that doesn't change the fact that a 24 is a below average score. You're not getting in with a 2.6/24.

Edit: And if you do get in with a 24, you stand out somewhere whether it be your GPA, an EC, residency, something. Anyone getting in with a 24 is special in some way or another. An otherwise average or normal applicant is not going anywhere with a 24 MCAT.

If you have a 24 and are offended by what I'm saying that's fine. It honestly doesn't matter if you think I'm mean or harsh or whatever else. A 24 is LOW. Period.

I was saying a 24 seems low for a matriculant to a DO school, I wasn't arguing against the fact that a 24 is a low MCAT score. A 24 is low but there are numerous schools that accept people with 24s. The only reason I have been writing against some of these posts is that I know there are many people who come onto SDN for confidence and reasons to still work hard and try even though they are underdogs. There are still newer schools accepting people with lower than average MCATS and GPAs such as the ones I mentioned earlier. Many of the posts on SDN need to be taken with a grain of salt but I hope people who truly want to become DOs do not give up.

 

[HalfListic]

I was saying a 24 seems low for a matriculant to a DO school, I wasn't arguing against the fact that a 24 is a low MCAT score. A 24 is low but there are numerous schools that accept people with 24s. The only reason I have been writing against some of these posts is that I know there are many people who come onto SDN for confidence and reasons to still work hard and try even though they are underdogs. There are still newer schools accepting people with lower than average MCATS and GPAs such as the ones I mentioned earlier. Many of the posts on SDN need to be taken with a grain of salt but I hope people who truly want to become DOs do not give up.

Its true...sometimes people need inspiration.

But, telling someone with a 2.6 gpa and 24 MCAT that they have a shot at acceptance is sort of counter productive and definitely misleading. (not that you say this, but just so that you know that the comments telling this person that there is a LOT more work to be done are probably more helpful than anything else)

 

[MedPR]

I was saying a 24 seems low for a matriculant to a DO school, I wasn't arguing against the fact that a 24 is a low MCAT score. A 24 is low but there are numerous schools that accept people with 24s. The only reason I have been writing against some of these posts is that I know there are many people who come onto SDN for confidence and reasons to still work hard and try even though they are underdogs. There are still newer schools accepting people with lower than average MCATS and GPAs such as the ones I mentioned earlier. Many of the posts on SDN need to be taken with a grain of salt but I hope people who truly want to become DOs do not give up.

Ok, you tell me which would motivate you to work harder.

Option 1. Don't feel bad. Lots of schools take people with a 24. Don't worry you'll be fine.

Option 2. A 24 isn't good enough, you have to retake and do better.

?????

Fact is, it isn't good advice to tell someone with a 24 that they have a legitimate shot. Yes, people with 24s get in, but people also win the lottery. Would you advise someone to spend their paycheck on lotto tickets because "People win everyday!" Hell no you wouldn't. Tell these people with terrible MCAT scores (24, for example) to sack up and retake the damn thing. Hard truths are better than false hope.

 

[MURedHawk10]

Ok, you tell me which would motivate you to work harder.

Option 1. Don't feel bad. Lots of schools take people with a 24. Don't worry you'll be fine.

Option 2. A 24 isn't good enough, you have to retake and do better.

?????

Fact is, it isn't good advice to tell someone with a 24 that they have a legitimate shot. Yes, people with 24s get in, but people also win the lottery. Would you advise someone to spend their paycheck on lotto tickets because "People win everyday!" Hell no you wouldn't. Tell these people with terrible MCAT scores (24, for example) to sack up and retake the damn thing. Hard truths are better than false hope.

If someone had a 24 and wanted to be a DO and did not believe they could improve their MCAT score because they are not good standardize test takers (and had a decent GPA) I would tell them to apply June 1st to especially the new schools and other newer ones. If they apply early with a decent gpa and ECs they have a shot. There are schools with lower than average matriculant stats. It is not false hope to tell someone with a 24 to apply (assuming they have a decent GPA and extracurriculars) when there are schools with 24, 25 and 26 average MCATs who also have GPAs that are not that high. I am not trying to give false hope, I am saying that if someone has a 24 that hope is not lost.

 

[MedPR]

If someone had a 24 and wanted to be a DO and did not believe they could improve their MCAT score because they are not good standardize test takers (and had a decent GPA) I would tell them to apply June 1st to especially the new schools and other newer ones. If they apply early with a decent gpa and ECs they have a shot. There are schools with lower than average matriculant stats. It is not false hope to tell someone with a 24 to apply (assuming they have a decent GPA and extracurriculars) when there are schools with 24, 25 and 26 average MCATs who also have GPAs that are not that high. I am not trying to give false hope, I am saying that if someone has a 24 that hope is not lost.

I would tell them to reconsider medicine because there are tons of standardized tests to take down the road. At some point you have to think about whether or not you can actually complete school, pass all the required tests, and be intellectually competent.

Pre-meds get so caught up in trying to get into med school without even considering if they can make it through. Someone who cannot improve on a 24 needs to step back and assess their academic ability.

 

[Cloud 9]

^MedPR, the standardized tests down the road are nothing like the MCAT.

Those tests, eg, USMLE, board exams, are designed to see if you know it or not, kind of like the gimme discretes on the MCAT. It is not designed to trip you up with convoluted passages, convoluted wording, or trick you. I have a good GPA, however I have never had a science test in my entire undergrad with 3-4 confusing paragraphs to read and then answer based on them. All of my science exams to date have been like discrete questions.

I have never even had an English test like that (all of my English exams focused on writing essays, sometimes identifying quotes).

So it does not surprise me in the least that someone can do very well "in the real world" and not do well on the MCAT.

The MCAT is simply not comparable to any science test out there really. I mean, think about the DAT or the PCAT...they are composed of pure discretes...the USMLE and board exams are composed of pure discretes as well.

I know quite a bit of foreign doctors who can't even compose a coherent email who have been working in the USA since forever...let me see how they would do on the passage dense MCAT, probably not very well.

 

[MedPR]

^MedPR, the standardized tests down the road are nothing like the MCAT.

Those tests, eg, USMLE, board exams, are designed to see if you know it or not, kind of like the gimme discretes on the MCAT. It is not designed to trip you up with convoluted passages, convoluted wording, or trick you. I have a good GPA, however I have never had a science test in my entire undergrad with 3-4 confusing paragraphs to read and then answer based on them. All of my science exams to date have been like discrete questions.

I have never even had an English test like that (all of my English exams focused on writing essays, sometimes identifying quotes).

So it does not surprise me in the least that someone can do very well "in the real world" and not do well on the MCAT.

The MCAT is simply not comparable to any science test out there really. I mean, think about the DAT or the PCAT...they are composed of pure discretes...the USMLE and board exams are composed of pure discretes as well.

I know quite a bit of foreign doctors who can't even compose a coherent email who have been working in the USA since forever...let me see how they would do on the passage dense MCAT, probably not very well.

Have you taken Step 1? My girlfriend has, and she disagrees. You're also completely wrong about the USMLE. It's not discretes like MCAT discretes. It's cases and questions that require multiple steps and concepts to answer correctly. Not to mention there are more than 4 answer choices. I'm pretty sure you're a pre-med talking out of your ass regarding the USMLE. My girlfriend took it, I saw her prep, and she disagrees with everything you're saying about it.

Perhaps our definition of "discrete" isn't the same. Here are some USMLE sample questions. https://www.score95.com/USMLE-Step-1-Qbank/Study-Prep-Course They are nothing like MCAT discretes.

Regardless, I didn't say that a low MCAT = low USMLE. I said, if you can't perform well on the MCAT, perhaps you should step back and assess your academic ability.

 

[Cloud 9]

Have you taken Step 1? My girlfriend has, and she disagrees. You're also completely wrong about the USMLE. It's not discretes like MCAT discretes. It's cases and questions that require multiple steps and concepts to answer correctly. Not to mention there are more than 4 answer choices. I'm pretty sure you're a pre-med talking out of your ass regarding the USMLE. My girlfriend took it, I saw her prep, and she disagrees with everything you're saying about it.

Perhaps our definition of "discrete" isn't the same. Here are some USMLE sample questions. https://www.score95.com/USMLE-Step-1-Qbank/Study-Prep-Course They are nothing like MCAT discretes.

Regardless, I didn't say that a low MCAT = low USMLE. I said, if you can't perform well on the MCAT, perhaps you should step back and assess your academic ability.

Well we can agree to disagree. I was basing this based on input my family members told me. I still don't think doing well on the MCAT correlates to a good USMLE or board score or even a successful future as a physician. My parents never took the MCAT and they had Step 1s of 99 percentile so...then again that was 20 years ago, maybe the exam changed.

From the board questions I have seen in my parent's review book, the questions are discrete in that the question stem provides all the info you need, there isn't blocks of text outside the question of which a lot of it is unnecessary.

 

[Ost3oclast]

I think people who do well on the MCAT will always say that MCAT scores correlate well with higher USMLE scores. I also think people with lower MCAT scores will say that MCAT performance doesnt relate to USMLE scores.

 

[eeyoreish]

Well we can agree to disagree. I was basing this based on input my family members told me. I still don't think doing well on the MCAT correlates to a good USMLE or board score or even a successful future as a physician. My parents never took the MCAT and they had Step 1s of 99 percentile so...then again that was 20 years ago, maybe the exam changed.

From the board questions I have seen in my parent's review book, the questions are discrete in that the question stem provides all the info you need, there isn't blocks of text outside the question of which a lot of it is unnecessary.

You reason like someone with a low MCAT score.

The claim: MCAT score correlates to USMLE performance.

Your response: Anecdote, 2 individuals took USMLE and performed well, did not take MCAT, therefore claim is false.

Me: *brain explodes* Did you ever think they might have performed well on the MCAT if they had taken it... EHHHH???? HOW IS YOUR RESPONSE ANSWERING THE CLAIM AHHH.... I'm sorry I'm not usually this harsh but your "reasoning" is just so awful that it hurts.

P.S. there is data showing USMLE and MCAT scores correlate, too lazy to find the link. also, 24 MCAT is going to be on the low end for this cycle, apply at the really really low end schools like pikeville and the newer schools as well as a couple reaches.

 

[eeyoreish]

I think people who do well on the MCAT will always say that MCAT scores correlate well with higher USMLE scores. I also think people with lower MCAT scores will say that MCAT performance doesnt relate to USMLE scores.

I think the people that actually know what they are talking about will say they correlate. The people who have no idea what the USMLE is like, are premeds, have not looked at any of the data AND did poorly on the MCAT will disagree.

 

[Temperature101]

Ok, you tell me which would motivate you to work harder.

Option 1. Don't feel bad. Lots of schools take people with a 24. Don't worry you'll be fine.

Option 2. A 24 isn't good enough, you have to retake and do better.

?????

Fact is, it isn't good advice to tell someone with a 24 that they have a legitimate shot. Yes, people with 24s get in, but people also win the lottery. Would you advise someone to spend their paycheck on lotto tickets because "People win everyday!" Hell no you wouldn't. Tell these people with terrible MCAT scores (24, for example) to sack up and retake the damn thing. Hard truths are better than false hope.

What is the average mcat for DO? If I am not mistaken..I think it's 26. Therefore, a 24 is low but not for DO schools...Sure it is low for MD.

 

[MedPR]

Well we can agree to disagree. I was basing this based on input my family members told me. I still don't think doing well on the MCAT correlates to a good USMLE or board score or even a successful future as a physician. My parents never took the MCAT and they had Step 1s of 99 percentile so...then again that was 20 years ago, maybe the exam changed.

From the board questions I have seen in my parent's review book, the questions are discrete in that the question stem provides all the info you need, there isn't blocks of text outside the question of which a lot of it is unnecessary.

What scores did your parents get? How do you know they scored in the 99th percentile? Do you have the data to support that? The 2 digit score is not a percentile score. Never was, if that's what you are referring to.

I posted a link to current sample questions. The fact that your parents took the test 20 years ago and you're using that as an example shows how simple minded and uninformed you are.

You reason like someone with a low MCAT score.

The claim: MCAT score correlates to USMLE performance.

Your response: Anecdote, 2 individuals took USMLE and performed well, did not take MCAT, therefore claim is false.

Me: *brain explodes* Did you ever think they might have performed well on the MCAT if they had taken it... EHHHH???? HOW IS YOUR RESPONSE ANSWERING THE CLAIM AHHH.... I'm sorry I'm not usually this harsh but your "reasoning" is just so awful that it hurts.

P.S. there is data showing USMLE and MCAT scores correlate, too lazy to find the link. also, 24 MCAT is going to be on the low end for this cycle, apply at the really really low end schools like pikeville and the newer schools as well as a couple reaches.

+1.

I think the people that actually know what they are talking about will say they correlate. The people who have no idea what the USMLE is like, are premeds, have not looked at any of the data AND did poorly on the MCAT will disagree.

+1.

 

[eeyoreish]

[/B]
What is the average mcat for DO? If I am not mistaken..I think it's 26. Therefore, a 24 is low but not for DO schools...Sure it is low for MD.

Standard deviation is 2, average for c/o 2017 will probably be a 27 or 28 extrapolating the trends = potentially 2 standard deviations below the mean which would be really really really low.