How many Hours of Vet/Animal Experience do Most of You Have?

[CupOfJeaux]

Hey.

I am planning on applying to vet school in 2-3 years and was just wondering how many hours do most applicants have? And how large of a range in different types of animals do most applicants have?

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[Backwoods Boy]

I am in a small boat right now. I didn't decide to become a vet until this past March. I had a job lined up during the summer for my neighbor. I helped her for a few weeks and then I was told she didn't need anything else... Now I am working for a vet.

Long story short, I have approximately 100 hours or so.

 

[thereservoirdog]

I'm applying right now and I have
~1000 small animal clinic
400 wildlife research
200 wildlife rehab
100 zoo hospital

 

[psjlg2]

I have about 7,600 hours of Veterinary experience. I decided I wanted to be a vet when I was about 15 and have worked nearly half/full time as a tech ever since.
Maybe 1,500 hours animal experience from Schutzhund training german shepherd to pet sitting. Most of my hours were pet-sitting for sick cats that needed SQ fluids every other day and for diabetic dogs so I'm not sure how much of that will actually count for "animal" experience since it was just pet-sitting.

Most of my experience was wildlife and small animal, so I'm lacking in LA.

 

[TrocarKarin]

I'm applying with about 1300 hours of small animal experience (at a clinic that does wildlife as well), and 5 hours equine.

As for animal experience, I've got about 200 hours as a stablehand, and about 900 in schutzhund training.

 

[misswhiskers]

I will be applying next year and so far have . . .
approximately
6,000 lab animal
150 wildlife
40 dairy
50 small animal

 

[psjlg2]

As for animal experience, I've got about 200 hours as a stablehand, and about 900 in schutzhund training.

Yay for Schutzhund training! I've always thought that if you can wear a bite-sleeve and have a 100lb german shepherd fly at you, you can do anything.

 

[DVMDream]

Vet Experience:

I started working for a SA vet the summer before my senior year of high school. I worked there for slightly over a year as a vet tech and then left for college. I still work there for winter and summer breaks. So from them, I have a around 3000 hours.

In the town I go to school at I have around another 200-300 hours as a SA tech.

Both SA vets I worked for also did exotics. So I have seen a few small pocket pets and a couple of pot bellied pigs.

Animal Experience:

I volunteered at the Wild Life World Zoo this past winter for about 80 hours.

At 13, I did a summer camp for kids at the AZ Humane Society. I remember a lot from this experience. Including cleaning burns on a dog, watching a vet place a cast on a puppy, and picking one animal to promote for adoption. It lasted a month and this is what really wanted me to continue into vet med.

Throughout junior high and high school I volunteered at a no-kill animal shelter in the cattery. So I have a few hundred to a thousand hours here.

A few years back, I volunteered at the Humane Society in the town I am attending school for about 30-40 hours.

I have 0 equine or large animal experiences.

Other than research I had to do as part of my classes, which included creating and running your own experiment and then presenting the results to the class and some of the biology department faculty, I have no other research experience.

Try to get some experience in any way you can. I had to start cleaning kennels and then I moved up from there and don't compare yourself to other people when you do apply for vet school. I find myself doing that now. It doesn't help and only makes you less confident in your abilities. Nobody knows how the admission committees determine who they accept and reject; it is completely random. Good luck to you!

 

[twelvetigers]

~1,500 small animal clinic
~650 research
~70 large animal
~15 clinical pathology
some small animal exp. from a few smaller things...

And 2,000 hours in a close-but-no-cigar type setting, so I have to call it work experience.

 

[aspiringDVM]

3000 small animal vet
400 equine surgery, ambulatory, therio
50 farm/mixed practice
20 underprivileged vaccination clinics
1000 equine rehab
1000 goat keeping (VERY conservative estimate for VMCAS)

 

[CupOfJeaux]

Well I have about 2000 hours of veterinary experience and about 1000 hours of animal experience at at vet clinic, including emergancy medicine and a few exotics/pocket pet type animals.

I also have about 1000 hours of zoo animal experience. That includes some animal husbandry but mostly handling education animals and speaking to the public.

I am trying to get a more diverse background and get experience with different animals. I have an interview comming up to work in the equine ICU at my school's vet school. So hopefully I can get that gig and add to my overall range of activities. Does anyone have any ideas of other types different of jobs/volunteering that I should consider?

Also I have fostered kittens that were left at the clinic I work at that were later adopted by other people. Can that count as animal experience?

I also have done other like small things with animals such as pet sitting and volunteering at dog washes (washing the dogs) to raise money for local breed rescues, but the time is pretty negligable so I don't know if I should even bother with that.

My GPA was not great my first few years of college, but is now improving (4.0 last semester!!) and I still have a lot of prereqs and the GRE left to take. So I think I can get a pretty competive sGPA and last however many hours hours GPA. But I am trying to make sure that I have a lot and wide range of activities to set me apart from others that have less than steller overall GPAs.

 

[AUhopeful]

I am currently applying and I have.....

Veterinary Experience
2,600 SA
1,000 LA (equine, surgery and breeding clinic)

Animal Experience
360 avian zookeeper
1,500 barn manager, riding instructor and cattle farm
300 humane society

 

[nyanko]

Veterinary:
Animal shelter: 50 (conservative estimate at spay-neuter clinic)
Small animal clinical: 3400 (3000 at a large private practice that had some horse/goat/random other mixed, but I just put down small animal, 400 hours at Banfield)
Research: 2800 (2000 for my MS up to app deadline, though it will continue far past that. about 800 for my undergrad research/thesis)
Vet microbiology diagnostic lab: 475 (through Oct 1, will continue to work there)

Total vet: 6725

Animal:
Animal shelter: 1050 (200 of it before finishing high school, 850 after, from kennel to adoption counseling to organizing a food drive in middle school)
Pet store kennel tech: 550 (if you read my personal statement you know how I feel about this )
Behavioral research: 80 (orca watch at Sea World, didn't feel involved enough with the actual research to list it as veterinary)
Lab animal tech: 1350 (this is another that could be split up between animal and vet probably, as I did do/assist with a lot of veterinary procedures and research while there, but the majority of the job was kennel type work so I just kept it here)

Total animal: 3030


So my total comes to 9,755 between veterinary and animal experience. I don't feel like it's very diverse, but there's definitely depth in research and small animal clinical at the very least. I did not include the fostering I did for a local rescue, because I don't really know how to.

 

[DreamDVM]

I am applying next year (not this year), and I currently have 335 hours SA experience, 150 hours wildlife (there is a vet on staff and I'm counting it as vet experience), and 150 hours in a parrot rescue center (animal exp). My goal is 2000 hours total, with >1000 hours in clinical SA and at least 100 in LA. We'll see how that goes.

I have to say, the totals represented here are the highest I've seen so far. Not sure if low-experience people are shy to post in this thread or what But I've seen much lower totals quoted on this board in the past. Just so you have an idea.

LeAnne

dreamdvm.blogspot.com

 

[Minnerbelle]

Not very diverse and pretty low in the # of vet experience working with vets but what can I do at this point. I could cry all day but that's not helpful.

These are all pretty conservative estimates of what I actually did (probably about 75-80%) but especially because I'm not officially on paper for having worked those extra hours (I usually slipped back in after I timed out since there would be major overtime issues) I didn't want to risk having vet schools dispute my hours and have HR kicking my ass. Anyone else have that problem?

~750 vet services at shelter
~1700 wildlife + large animal/exotics animal husbandry (still debating how to classify this experience)
~2700 research at time of apps + counting
~700 running a small animal rescue at time of apps + counting

lots of fosters (some needing intensive vet care) + pet sitting/dog walking (even walked the college president's dog for 2 yrs) but I dunno how much of this I'm going to put into my apps.

 

[NittanyKitty]

Applying right now and have:

2,400 small animal clinical
750 research
450 large animal clinical
20 exotics/avian clinical
10 small animal emergency
5 zoo animal

Also have about 1000 hours of assorted animal experience including pet store employment, agriculture classes, animal judging competitions, horse lessons, pet-sitting, etc.

 

[cedriccj3]

I'm going to hope that DreamDVM is right about these numbers being a bit high...or I have no shot at all! It does seem a bit high with everyone being in the multiple thousands though, so hopefully it doesn't represent the average. My hours:
vet
500 research with doing surgeries on rats
300 SA clinic, often involving surgeries
20 SA Neurology Specialist
50 hours shelter medicine
8 Exotic (saw an orangutan vasectormy...amazing)
and hopefully ~20 hours of equine or LA before the app is due, but i'm having trouble finding someone to take me under their wing.

Animal
160 exotic animal experience (orangutan and chimp sanctuary)
275 working at an animal shelter (dogs, cats, goats, guinea pigs, etc)
40 hours working with a wildlife rehabilitator (squirrels, raccoons, rabbits)
150 hours foster caring for sick or young animals (dogs and cats)


Goodluck everyone!

 

[nyanko]

I'm going to hope that DreamDVM is right about these numbers being a bit high...or I have no shot at all! It does seem a bit high with everyone being in the multiple thousands though, so hopefully it doesn't represent the average.

I think that something people need to keep in mind when reading these kinds of threads on SDN are that many of us here are different from the traditional applicant for whatever reason. For example, I am 28 years old, got my first degree in a different field (Computer Science) and have a mediocre undergraduate GPA that I need to make up for in other areas of the application - basically I need to show dedication to the profession above and beyond someone who knew what she wanted to do from a young age and got good grades as an undergrad.

Related is that most of the adcoms will look at the whole application, and honestly GPA/GRE are even more important in the initial screening so a bit lower than average on experience is probably not much of an issue if your GPA and GRE scores are above average. So don't worry too much about the numbers on threads like this - rather I would just look at the diversity of people's experience and kind of 'get ideas' as to what people are doing and what you can do to get more experience, if you're a couple years out from applying. Just my two cents!

 

[Minnerbelle]

Related is that most of the adcoms will look at the whole application, and honestly GPA/GRE are even more important in the initial screening so a bit lower than average on experience is probably not much of an issue if your GPA and GRE scores are above average. So don't worry too much about the numbers on threads like this - rather I would just look at the diversity of people's experience and kind of 'get ideas' as to what people are doing and what you can do to get more experience, if you're a couple years out from applying. Just my two cents!

I totally agree. If you look at the actual breakdown of assessment, some vet schools will explicitly say that 70% of their decision is based on JUST your academics (GRE/GPA/Coursework). Of course you won't be accepted with 0 experience no matter how high your GPA and GRE scores are, but for these schools your vet/animal experiences, extracurriculars, personal statement, etc... are ALL TOGETHER only worth 30% of your application package.

 

[ReadyBeVet]

Veterinary Experience:
350 hours in exclusively small animal hospital
400 hours in small animal/exotics hospital
20 hours equine
Total: 770 hours

Animal Experience:
750 hours volunteering at local animal shelter
1000 hours working at above animal shelter
50 hours Breed Rescue
Will begin Wildlife Job in Spring 2010. Average 20 hrs/wk for semester

Total to date:1800 hours

I feel like this is a fair number of hours, but I still am trying to add a LA experience.

 

[runnervet]

What about Pet ownership as animal experience. I am putting that down for about 32000 hours= 5 hours a day for 18 year rough estimate.

 

[david594]

What about Pet ownership as animal experience. I am putting that down for about 32000 hours= 5 hours a day for 18 year rough estimate.

Check on the school, some specifically say don't bother mentioning pet ownership.

The line in your personal statement "Having pets growing up..." will give them just as much information.

 

[georgie339]

...

 

[DVMorBust]

Doesn't the VMCAS specify not to use pet ownership hours this year?

I didn't put pet ownership hours down - but I did use a lot of hours that involved my pets. I counted activities that were beyond the usual 'feed, water, walk, obedience training (basic), etc." I know a lot of people on here have done 'above and beyond' things with their animals - SAR, agility, competitive horseback riding, etc. I'd recommend taking a look and seeing what in your hours was basic care, and what might have been the result of something more in-depth.

 

[GellaBella]

I am also not including pet ownership

I think most people applying to veterinary school have kept some sort of an animal as a pet during their lifetime. Growing up my family had potbellied pigs, pygmy goats, cats, rabbits, dogs, turtles, chickens, ducks, raccoons, it was like a petting zoo at our house. but to me, adding that to my application just doesn't seem right. Sure I cleaned out cages, fed the animals etc but I feel silly putting it on there. It is something I mention in my personal statement but that is all.

 

[Near]

Okay, I was just browsing threads, but I just had to speak up. Wow, you guys have killer hours! I mean, that's compared to most predents and a lot of premeds I've heard about.

I hope you all become vets one day!

 

[twelvetigers]

Thanks, near!

OKSU is one of the strange, strange schools that wants you to include pet ownership hours on your application. So far, it's the only one I've ever heard of, and I wouldn't bother doing it anyway if it weren't the only school I'm applying to (so why not?)

At any rate, I would recommend going a bit easier on the hours in you insist on including them. I did like, 15 min a day starting at 10 years old (and stopping at 18 when I left for college). Maybe I did more some days, but I'm sure I did less on other days. 5 hours a day, even if that's honestly true, is a pretty steep estimate. Also, unless you're 25+, your hours are probably a bit off... because you couldn't have been caring for a pet at age 2.

So, if you do include it, be conservative about it.

 

[georgie339]

...

 

[cedriccj3]

I would have to agree that the average SDNer is a bit more obsessed with getting into vet school than the rest, and would tend to have more experience...or at least that's how I'm justifying it to make myself feel more competitive haha.

I'm applying to NCSU this year (IS) and on the website it listed that the average vet exp for accepted students was somewhere around 3000 hours, but it also noted that the high end of the range was a student with over 10,000 hours. This makes it pretty hard to determine what the typical student would have with that huge number throwing off the average....maybe they could be nice and post the median??

And georgie, I am listing it as vet/research experience because it was under the supervision of a PhD prof at my school, who also wrote me a LOR. You should be good counting it as vet exp as long as you were working under a PhD prof. Goodluck!!

 

[BurntFlower]

I only have 100 hours of small animal experience in a clinic in Bolivia. Other than that, I have nothing else.

 

[cvt]

first things first- i'm new here; this is my first post, so hi.

I've just started my "new" undergrad degree, so I wont be applying to vet schools for another 2-3 years. In that time I hope to get MUCH MUCH more and diverse experience.

right now I have about 600 hours in a small animal practice (which is where i currently work as a tech)
and about 350 at an equine hospital (where I did my externship for tech school)

I used to ride horses competitively and I've noticed that a couple schools consider that animal experience. How does one go about deciding on an hour number? I probably rode an average of 2 hours a day for 5 years, but it seems silly to include something like that.

I also hope to volunteer at the pittsburgh zoo over the summers, and possibly do a research internship during my third year.

I'm already stressing out about getting into (read: not getting into) a vet school and I've still got a few years to go. Do they look down upon people that took a while to figure out what they really want to do? I feel like I'm getting a very late start.

 

[AstroFish]

Out of curiosity, how do you account for time spent in the "front" of a SA clinic? For example, I've worked as a receptionist/technician for about a year, with a lot of my initial familiarity with testing procedures/goals and other aspects of the practice coming from the reception side.

Should any of that time be included as hourly experience, or would that be better suited to be explained within a personal statement?

Thanks!

 

[vnair2]

When someone asks how many vet hours others have, they want to hear low numbers so they feel better about themselves. People with thousands of hours are no longer welcome in this thread.

I was accepted last year with 400 hours at the time I applied, all of which was in a SA practice.

 

[nyanko]

It makes me feel worse about myself every time anyone posts their GPA so let me have my application strengths damn it!

 

[dullflame]

Hahaha thanks for making us lower number people feel better, vnair2. My hours are okay but they're not astronomical.

 

[PAVetHopeful]

Alright, this will probably sound nit-picky to some of you, but here goes...

Working as a vet assistant is not the same as being a tech/nurse. Most states require certification/licensure to practice as a vet tech. This requires two years of academic work, as well as six months of practical work (I am generalizing, but the requirements are similar in most states). Most techs have at least an associate's degree, if not a BS. In other words, it is a skilled profession. Getting an after school job in high school (or college) and learning on the job is simply not the same.

Why do I even mention this? Most (if not all, hopefully of you will go on to become veterinarians. The vast majority of those will work with techs/nurses (we prefer nurses, but that's a whole nother thang). It is important to realize the value of skilled nurses and the place that they have in your practice. Elevating unskilled workers to the same status is not only insulting, but harmful to the practice. Unskilled workers are more likely to cause harm to patients than people who are more thoroughly trained. At the other end of the spectrum, it is a waste of a salary to have a certified tech work as a receptionist/restrainer.

I realize that as a nurse at a large university teaching hospital, my perspective on what nurses should be responsible for may be a bit different than people working in general practice. I also realize that there are still nurses out there who do not provide a high standard of care. However, the profession has worked hard to increase recognition of our role in veterinary medicine, as well as to increase the requirements for licensure to provide a minimal standard.

That said, I don't think that anyone here meant to insult technicians/nurses. And if it improves your application to say it, I can't say I blame you for putting it on there. My goal here was only to bring awareness to the fact that saying you were/are a tech when you weren't/aren't is insulting to those of us who are. There is a lot more to say about this, but I think I've gone on long enough.

If you stayed until the end, thanks for reading.

 

[DVMDream]

Alright, this will probably sound nit-picky to some of you, but here goes...

Working as a vet assistant is not the same as being a tech/nurse. Most states require certification/licensure to practice as a vet tech. This requires two years of academic work, as well as six months of practical work (I am generalizing, but the requirements are similar in most states). Most techs have at least an associate's degree, if not a BS. In other words, it is a skilled profession. Getting an after school job in high school (or college) and learning on the job is simply not the same.

Why do I even mention this? Most (if not all, hopefully of you will go on to become veterinarians. The vast majority of those will work with techs/nurses (we prefer nurses, but that's a whole nother thang). It is important to realize the value of skilled nurses and the place that they have in your practice. Elevating unskilled workers to the same status is not only insulting, but harmful to the practice. Unskilled workers are more likely to cause harm to patients than people who are more thoroughly trained. At the other end of the spectrum, it is a waste of a salary to have a certified tech work as a receptionist/restrainer.



I realize that as a nurse at a large university teaching hospital, my perspective on what nurses should be responsible for may be a bit different than people working in general practice. I also realize that there are still nurses out there who do not provide a high standard of care. However, the profession has worked hard to increase recognition of our role in veterinary medicine, as well as to increase the requirements for licensure to provide a minimal standard.

That said, I don't think that anyone here meant to insult technicians/nurses. And if it improves your application to say it, I can't say I blame you for putting it on there. My goal here was only to bring awareness to the fact that saying you were/are a tech when you weren't/aren't is insulting to those of us who are. There is a lot more to say about this, but I think I've gone on long enough.

If you stayed until the end, thanks for reading.

I do agree with you to a point here. In most places in order to be a vet tech you have to go to a technical school and obtain a certification. I work as a vet tech/assistant in AZ. No I am not certified nor do I plan on becoming certified. In AZ you do not have to go to vet tech school to become a licensed vet tech. You can work as a veterinary assistant for 3000 hours under a licensed veterinarian and then take the same test that you would take coming out of vet tech school to get your certification. I have now been working as a vet tech/assistant (which ever you prefer) for over 4 years. I do EVERYTHING that a certified veterinary technician would do. The techs that I do work with who are certified are no better or worse than those that are not. Never have I caused harm to an animal by not having a piece of paper that told me I am now "certified". I do believe that when someone starts working as a vet assistant they do need to be watched carefully and shown what to do, but I believe on the job training is just as good as going to school and sitting in classroom as they lecture about how to be a vet tech. The main reason I say that I am a vet tech is because people think that vet assistants help the doctors and the vet techs, but in AZ that is not the case. I help the vet and do all the same things that certified vet techs do. I think it is a good thing to become a certified vet tech and I am not sure of how things work where you are from, but this is how things work in AZ and that is the reason why I consider myself a vet tech instead of an assistant.

 

[nyanko]

I agree with DVMDream. In CA you can take the exam with a bachelors in a related field and a signed technical skills list from a veterinarian you've worked under for over a year or something - you don't need to attend school specifically for techs. When I worked as an assistant in FL (where licensure is not mandatory), I did everything that a licensed tech would do anywhere else. My clinic didn't actually even employ any registered or licensed techs, only assistants who were referred to on the schedule and such as techs. The OTJ trained vs RVT argument has been done to death in other places, though, and this isn't really the place for it. Experiences should be judged on what your responsibilities at your place of employment were, not your title, anyway.

 

[PrimalMU]

Well, I'll weigh in here. I work with some VERY good certified techs and can honestly say that unless you've either gone to school or have many, many, MANY hours of CE (which is probably actually better than most vet tech programs), then you probably don't know as much as a certified tech. That's not to say that all techs are "better" than those with on the job training, but lets face it: an education in the hands of someone who actually cares is probably going to make them "better" (hate that term) than someone who cares equally but only has on the job training. And I think that makes sense... if you were going to hire a tech, and two applicants were equally enthusiastic about the job/industry, who would you choose? The one with a degree or the one with just on the job training, all other things being equal?

I've worked at a clinic with no registered techs, and I currently work at one where over half of the techs are registered. I can tell you from experience that having registered techs who care about their job and what they do significantly increase the quality of care from ALL members of the staff, registered or otherwise.

 

[PigsRock]

What about Pet ownership as animal experience. I am putting that down for about 32000 hours= 5 hours a day for 18 year rough estimate.

I certainly don't know about everywhere else, but Dr. Pelzer (director of admissions at VMRCVM) said to DEFINITELY include pet ownership. I asked her, "Even if it's like feeding barn cats once a day," and she said yes! However, she said it's probably best to undershoot your hours slightly and definitely have it from when you were old enough to have responsibility for the animal. And be honest! As an example, she said the admissions people did the math on one girl, and she would have been caring for her animals eight hours a day from the time she was crawling! (They threw out her application.)

 

[PAVetHopeful]

Never have I caused harm to an animal by not having a piece of paper that told me I am now “certified”.

I didn't say that you caused harm by being uncertified. I said that an unskilled worker is more likely to cause harm than one who is more thoroughly trained. I think that intuitively makes sense. Academic work provides us with the theory behind what we do and why we do it. Are you saying that you can learn the same amount of anatomy/physiology/pharmacology/pathophysiology, etc on the job as someone who has both academic and on the job training?
By that logic, I could continue to work with the vets that I work with now and in a few years, become a vet. Because OTJ training is the same, right?

Its also not just about a piece of paper. Its about having a standard.

I do EVERYTHING that a certified veterinary technician would do.

When I worked as an assistant in FL (where licensure is not mandatory), I did everything that a licensed tech would do anywhere else

I hope that if you are running anesthesia, you have acquired more than OTJ training. Or you are strictly supervised.

In AZ you do not have to go to vet tech school to become a licensed vet tech. You can work as a veterinary assistant for 3000 hours under a licensed veterinarian and then take the same test that you would take coming out of vet tech school to get your certification.

In CA you can take the exam with a bachelors in a related field and a signed technical skills list from a veterinarian you've worked under for over a year or something - you don't need to attend school specifically for techs

As I noted in my post, I generalized about the requirements for licensure. I searched, albeit briefly, for a list of requirements by state and couldn't find one. 40 out of 50 states require licensure to practice as a vet tech. The requirements are becoming more rigorous with time. In 15 years, I no doubt that they will become more stringent.

Incidentally, what majors are accepted as a "related field"?

MANY hours of CE (which is probably actually better than most vet tech programs),

I do agree that CE is in many ways more helpful than some of the classes in vet tech schools once you are in the field. However, a strong base of knowledge is necessary to understand new concepts and incorporate them into practice.

I've worked at a clinic with no registered techs, and I currently work at one where over half of the techs are registered. I can tell you from experience that having registered techs who care about their job and what they do significantly increase the quality of care from ALL members of the staff, registered or otherwise.

Thanks

 

[david594]

I hope that if you are running anesthesia, you have acquired more than OTJ training. Or you are strictly supervised.

I read a book on anesthesia once. And yeah, I worked as an OTJ technician.

At first I was a bit insulted by your post, but then the more I thought about it, the more I realized the Certified techs I have worked with have been pretty awesome across the board. I don't know if it has more to do with their formal training, or their commitment to the field, continuing education and years of experience most of them had. I would also agree the a certified tech is far more likely to have a solid background in the science behind the tasks they preform compared to an OTJ tech. Not to say an OTJ tech can't learn these things but would have to take a deliberate effort on their part to do that. So what I might expect 90% of certified techs to know, I might only expect 10-20% of OTJ techs to know. (~Insert discussion of tidal volumes and dead space here~)

On the other hand I feel like in a general practice setting the more advanced skill sets of certified techs are under utilized/appreciated and thats one of the reasons they are less embraced compared to OTJ technicians.

 

[nyanko]

Incidentally, what majors are accepted as a "related field"?

I don't think there is a definitive list, but I can tell you that my Molecular Biology and Microbiology degree was sufficient (I took vertebrate anatomy, physiology, pathogenic microbiology, immunology, etc...incidentally all upper division courses that a tech with an associates wouldn't have taken). The CA state VMB goes over transcripts to make a judgment on it, I believe. When I was job-hunting out here in CA I submitted transcripts, a skills list and credentials to them in case I needed to be licensed for any of the jobs I was interested in, and I was ready to schedule a test date until I found a job where I didn't need it.

There is an obvious benefit to formal education, but I really think that it's assuming a bit too much to state that OTJ training for the technical skills associated with the job is equal to a lack of understanding of the concepts behind them. Certainly there are people like this, and perhaps they would be more likely to be OTJ trained than certified, but I don't think it goes the other way in that a random OTJ trained assistant is necessarily more likely to lack a conceptual and theoretical understanding than a certified tech.

 

[IHeartGoldens]

le sigh..
most of my hours are in research, would that count against me?
I do have some SA/exotic, equine,food animal,shelter and usda vet exp but overall hours in that amount to about 275.. with research being around 2200 as it is my main interest.
my animal exp are varied too (foster,zoo,horseback riding,alpaca volunteer ,bird banding,pet sitting etc etc ) which is about 1800

I'm worried that I don't have a ton of hours in one speciality but more of a variety..

 

[twelvetigers]

You have some other hours besides just the research - I think 275 is more than enough to show you've gotten your feet wet (plus all the animal experience, they DO look at that you know!) Being interested in research is a great thing! Most applicants (especially the non SDN-ers) are going to be SA/LA. Research is really important to any field, especially medical, and the adcoms know that. Plus, where does a school make money and get its name out there? Through big, awesome research projects with grants and published papers, etc. so of course research is a great thing to be interested in. Point it out, play it up!

As for the OTJ vs. tech debate, I see where both sides are coming from. I just wanted to add that in Oklahoma, there aren't any rules about differentiating tech vs. OTJ. Incidentally, the pay increase that would be expected upon completion of a degree doesn't really... exist. A RVT/LVT could work at a vet school or a very large or specialized practice (probably in Tulsa or OKC) and get paid more than an OTJ person (the vet school only hires licensed techs) but in a general small-town setting, a tech is a tech without any distinction between the two. I don't think there's much room for pay increase based on level of training.

Just my observations. It's a shame, really... but I get paid $0.25 more than minimum wage, and a RVT would get the same pay here.

ETA: Also, we have a 'tech' that's been working for us for 18 years. Is she more or less likely to mess up than a newly graduated LVT?

 

[IHeartGoldens]

twelvetigers,
thanks for the vote of confidence.

I'm hoping my varied background makes up for anything icky on my application. I guess we shall see

 

[eventualeventer]

I definitely think (and hope!) that the SDN is a skewed segment of the application population, and this seems to be supported by the fact that we seem to have a larger proportion of people who manage to get in somewhere each year than what the numbers suggest. Anyway, these are my stats, which I just finished calculating from old pay stubs and journal entries. What I put on VMCAS:
Vet
~100 hours shadowing LA practice, mostly equine but a few cows/alpacas
~3000 working at equine ambulatory+inpatient in area with wealthy clientele (i.e. people with money to spend on their horses)
~600 working at equine teaching hospital
~200 as undergrad assistant on equine nutrition project
~250 fly genetics research, was given own long-running project that I set up and ran until late July, when I came down with pneumonia and was told to stay out of the lab until my chest was 100% clear (there are some mold issues in the lab because the flies require very high humidity)
- 20 hours shadowing SA vet

Animal - oy, as a horse person, it was hard to figure out what to put, and I'm still second-guessing myself:
- Lifelong (well, since I was 10) equestrian, though no horses of my own. I felt really awkward putting this on VMCAS but tried to estimate the hours I spent working at the barn in exchange for lessons, taking lessons, and preparing for and going to dressage schooling shows. I put 9,000 as an average of 4 hours/week (v. conservative) for 4.5 years (50 wks/yr, to simplify things), late 1997-2002. Since 2002, I've mainly been puttering around on friends' horses, so I didn't count that in my hours, although I mentioned it briefly in the description.
- Various positions in campus equestrian club, including overseeing horse care (scheduling, making sure people were doing their jobs, doing first aid treatment type things) for a summer, teaching lessons, training school horses, etc. Estimated 2400 hours.
- Handled dogs at training sessions for therapy and assistance dog organization, 80 hours.
- Pet-sitting, farm-sitting, exercising horses people on vacation (paid): 250 hours.

As you can see, I'm VERY deficient in the SA department, and I'm worried that it might end up killing my application. I was, um, busy doing equine stuff, which I like and also paid $$. This summer also got killed by the fly research and commuting to my job. The excuses never end.

 

[DVMDream]

I said that an unskilled worker is more likely to cause harm than one who is more thoroughly trained. I think that intuitively makes sense. Academic work provides us with the theory behind what we do and why we do it. Are you saying that you can learn the same amount of anatomy/physiology/pharmacology/pathophysiology, etc on the job as someone who has both academic and on the job training?

I agree. An unskilled worker would be more likely to cause harm than one more thoroughly trained. Part of my OTJ training included learning information about anesthesia, what medications are used for what, what information blood work shows us, etc. We have also had extensive pharmacology training OTJ for why we would use antibiotic A vs. antibiotic B, etc. I understand that this is not the norm for OTJ training but this is what I have learned OTJ. I have also taken extensive upper level coursework in cellular and molecular biology, animal physiology and anatomy, and parasitology and I know that my learning in just these courses have given me a much better understanding of how medications work in the body, how different organ systems function in the body and how cell signaling pathways work. All things that the certified vet techs I work with would never know.

Its also not just about a piece of paper. Its about having a standard.

I agree. Most certified vet techs do tend to have a higher standard, but not all. Many certified vet techs I have met just simply do not care. They finished their schooling and they just simply do what they have to in order to get a paycheck. You also do not have to be certified to have a standard. I am not certified, I don’t get paid well, but I still LOVE my job. I love the clients and the patients and I have a high standard of giving the very best care to all people and pets that walk into the clinic.

As I noted in my post, I generalized about the requirements for licensure. I searched, albeit briefly, for a list of requirements by state and couldn't find one. 40 out of 50 states require licensure to practice as a vet tech. The requirements are becoming more rigorous with time. In 15 years, I no doubt that they will become more stringent.

Awesome! I believe all 50 states need to require licensure and I am slightly disappointed you could not find out more information on a state by state case (not saying that is your fault; just this information should be easily found; I am disappointed that it could not be found easily). I know AZ is going to start requiring licensure in the very near future. I believe that vet tech schools also need to become more rigorous and teach the higher level stuff such as cellular and molecular biology. How cells work is a major part of how the entire body works and I believe it would lead to a better understanding than just saying this is what the kidney does, this is what the liver does, etc.

I also believe they need to require that people in vet tech school need to get hands on experience sooner rather than later. We have had many vet techs on their externship/internship (not sure of which one is correct) realize that they really do not like being a veterinary technician and wish that they had never gone to school.

At first I was a bit insulted by your post, but then the more I thought about it, the more I realized the Certified techs I have worked with have been pretty awesome across the board. I don't know if it has more to do with their formal training, or their commitment to the field, continuing education and years of experience most of them had.

You have gotten lucky. Most of the certified techs I have worked with have been in the job so long that they can no longer stand it. Most of them are working as office managers and do not really do much technician work, which I find quite sad. We once had a certified vet tech treat everyone like crap, just because she had worked in an emergency clinic and was “certified”. This is not true for all certified vet techs. I have met some amazing certified techs as well. Most of the techs that I have worked with who have only had OTJ training are awesome! They get paid very little (minimum wage), work just as hard as certified vet techs, and yet still love their job. That takes a very high level of standard to keep coming back when you are not being paid what you should be.

I overall agree that in a perfect world all techs should be certified. In a perfect world, vet tech schools would teach more rigorous coursework that would give a much deeper understanding of what is going on in the body (not saying vet techs don’t understand; they just understand on a higher level, i.e. organs and organ systems).

I think nyanko summarizes this up the best:

The OTJ trained vs RVT argument has been done to death in other places, though, and this isn't really the place for it. Experiences should be judged on what your responsibilities at your place of employment were, not your title, anyway.

Experiences are everything. Job titles are just titles. We could argue over this forever and no one would be able to come up with the “right” answer. Everyone has their own opinions. I have stated mine, but I agree with nyanko that this is not the place to argue over this because it could go on forever. There are pluses and minuses to both RVT’s and those that have been OTJ trained. Again, in a perfect world vet tech schools would be much more rigorous (this is starting to happen) and all techs would need to be certified. But, then there would be arguments on what a vet assistant is what they should and should not be allowed to do. It is a never-ending cycle that has no “right” or “wrong” answer.

 

[Highlsnds3]

I'm hoping to become a LA vet, but basically other than being a LA owner I don't have much LA experiance.

VETERINARY:
5080 SA Vet Tech (all OJT), clinic and spay/neuter programs

ANIMAL:
other than being a pet and LA owner
18200 Kennel manager/groomer (low end, probably more like 21000)
700 Military working dogs (drug detection)--Not my reg. job, just volunteered during my off time. Again probably low est.
20 Showing my cattle
540 Dog Trainer -part time job
1440 Stable worker--spent my free time at the stables in exchange for riding every now and then. (Side note-I got my first horse because of this job! He's 24 now and has moved all over the US with me!)

Just my $.02 on the "vet tech" debate. In TN you are not required (as of yet)to be licensed. The only "techs" at the clinic I worked at were the OJT type. Out of the 4 vets I worked with at that clinic (one right out of school and 3 with 10, and 20+ years experience) the only vets that could hit a vein on any of the animals that came in, were the fresh out of school vet (he managed about 75% of the time) and the owner of the clinic. There were many times an OJT tech saved the life of an animal because they could hit a vein whereas the vet with 20 years experience could not. Also the most devastating thing I experienced was being with that same vet at a euthanasia in front of the client with her digging for a vein for 30 minutes. Now this says a lot more about the vet than the "tech" IMO, but there it is!

 

[DVMDream]

I'm hoping to become a LA vet, but basically other than being a LA owner I don't have much LA experiance.

VETERINARY:
5080 SA Vet Tech (all OJT), clinic and spay/neuter programs

ANIMAL:
other than being a pet and LA owner
18200 Kennel manager/groomer (low end, probably more like 21000)
700 Military working dogs (drug detection)--Not my reg. job, just volunteered during my off time. Again probably low est.
20 Showing my cattle
540 Dog Trainer -part time job
1440 Stable worker--spent my free time at the stables in exchange for riding every now and then. (Side note-I got my first horse because of this job! He's 24 now and has moved all over the US with me!)

Wow! You have a lot of experience. Way to go!!

Also the most devastating thing I experienced was being with that same vet at a euthanasia in front of the client with her digging for a vein for 30 minutes. Now this says a lot more about the vet than the "tech" IMO, but there it is!

When we do a euthanasia with the owner present in an exam room, we take the pet back to the treatment area and set an IV catheter. This makes a mucher nicer appearence for the owner and you don't have to worry about whether or not you will be able to find the vein in front of the owner.