Hi all, just wondering whether most people around here have masters, and also what kind. right now I am applying to phds-- I graduated from undergrad last december and I have been working in research for a year. I have one interview and am waiting on four schools who haven't sent out invites yet but I am already wondering what my back-up plan should be just in case I don't get in. Do people recommend masters and if so in which? If I majored in psychology, would a masters in general psychology not help me for grad schools? Or would people recommend trying to get an RA position in the field?
How many of you applicants have masters?
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Basically, a masters in general or experimental psych will help you if you didn't get the psych background as an undergrad (not the case for you), had a low undergrad GPA, need more research experience, and/or need a way to narrow your research interests. This is the route I took because I wasn't a psych major and didn't have enough of a grasp on psych research. I have found it very helpful. I never had a program look at my degree as a drawback.
I have heard from others that a masters in Clinical Psychology can work both ways. At some programs it looks good to have additional experience in grad school and clinical work. Other programs will wonder why you didn't simply stop with the masters.
A year working as an RA is never a bad idea. It's a matter of weighing finances (e.g. whether you can get into a funded masters program) and your specific needs.
I have heard from others that a masters in Clinical Psychology can work both ways. At some programs it looks good to have additional experience in grad school and clinical work. Other programs will wonder why you didn't simply stop with the masters.
A year working as an RA is never a bad idea. It's a matter of weighing finances (e.g. whether you can get into a funded masters program) and your specific needs.
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Will graduate with an MS in May, and before enrolling in my masters program I did a double major and a minor...
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That's a strange thing for a school to wonder. Is that actually true?
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I couldn't see that being true at all. Although it would probably depend on the degree. If you are able to do what you want at the master's level, then why get a doctorate? (Not my personal belief, but some might think this way)
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I would go for the full-time RA position (at least 2 years) unless your GPA is below 3.5/3.6
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I've applied to clinical PhD programs for fall 2010, but last year, I pondered this same question myself. As a non-psychology major out of school for several years, I've only been taking psych classes part time the last year and a half in order to catch up on my pre-reqs. With less than one year of research experience, I wondered if the Master's would be a good way to get a thesis under my belt and prove that I still had the academic chops to hack it in a PhD program after my hiatus.
I took this question to several of my psych professors. The answer I got was always the same: their brows would knit, and a look of disapproval would play briefly across their faces. It doesn't hurt your chances, they'd say, but it doesn't give you any advantage, plus for most PhDs you won't be able to transfer the credits from your master's to your doctoral program. Therefore, they tended to see it as a 2 year delay, and were appropriately discouraging of the idea. The bottom line, they said, was that the great majority of acceptances are offered to students who only have their BA/BS. Get more research experience, but don't bother w/ a master's.
So I took their advice, and have ended up taking 7 undergrad classes total in time for application deadlines, (including RA for credit). I've got 3 interview invites and counting, so I guess I'd say they were spot on. Time will tell...but that's was I was told. Does that jive with what you've heard?
I took this question to several of my psych professors. The answer I got was always the same: their brows would knit, and a look of disapproval would play briefly across their faces. It doesn't hurt your chances, they'd say, but it doesn't give you any advantage, plus for most PhDs you won't be able to transfer the credits from your master's to your doctoral program. Therefore, they tended to see it as a 2 year delay, and were appropriately discouraging of the idea. The bottom line, they said, was that the great majority of acceptances are offered to students who only have their BA/BS. Get more research experience, but don't bother w/ a master's.
So I took their advice, and have ended up taking 7 undergrad classes total in time for application deadlines, (including RA for credit). I've got 3 interview invites and counting, so I guess I'd say they were spot on. Time will tell...but that's was I was told. Does that jive with what you've heard?
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I have an M.S. in Psychology and a subsequent 7 years of actual clinical experience. For what it's worth, so far I have 5 interviews lined up for this season. I think what you *do* after you get the M.S. probably means more than the M.S. (or M.A.) itself.
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As I said, I have my masters in general psych, which is a very different case. Consequently, I have no personal experience applying with a masters in clinical psychology. I have heard that the degree can cause problems for certain programs, however, and I think that makes sense. A masters in clinical psych or mental health counseling is a terminal degree that leads to licensure. If you simply wanted to practice, why wouldn't you stop there?* These programs don't usually have a substantial research requirement, so they are not a stepping stone to the work you do in doctoral programs in the same way that general masters are.
*Note that there are good reasons for deciding to seek a doctoral degree after a clinical masters, it just may require some explaining.
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Just to play devil's advocate, you spent a good amount of time taking those pre-reqs and getting the extra research experience. What would be the drawback of entering a masters program that provides these same things? It may take one semester longer, but you would have more credits of coursework. Plus, there are fully funded programs out there that mean you would not be losing money. I don't really see the practical difference between these two routes.
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I agree with this minus the GPA bit, I have a 3.2ish GPA, but I have spent last two years doing non-psych research, but gotten the pubs etc and I have 6 interviews so far... undergrad was psych... I think the research matters at least for clin psych phd
Do you think a student has a shot if they have a few months of research experience and clinical experience, along with a terminal master's?
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I honestly cannot speak on the importance of a masters because I myself have not had to go that route. However i have anecdotal experience thorugh friends that have had to do that route, and it worked for them. I myself was originally intending on med school and changed my mind, hence that was the only reason I came to a medical research institute in the first place.
sorry
Edit: having said this I might met lots of people that came straight out of psych undergrad into a post-bacc research fellowship and are now applying to psych programs and having success... the nice thing about this is that its guaranteed pay, health insurance, a nice city experience, and at least one letter of rec (not too mention if you are lucky some pubs and ocnference experience).
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I think the student would have a shot...but I'd recommend that the student get more research experience and the student have approx. 1 year of clinical experience to have an even better shot. You will soon find out that this is a huge crap shoot..but coupling other strong parts of your application (research experience, clinical experience, volunteer work, etc) with the fact that you have done a master's degree will certainly not hurt anything.
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I don't know... I mean I guess some doctoral program out there may think that way. There are so many good reasons why a person with a master's in clinical psych would want to pursue a doctoral degree, i.e. betterment of oneself in a field, more career options (including teaching, supervision, etc. etc.), love of the field, desire to be better equipped to help one's clients, to mention a few.
One PsyD program that I applied to even required a master's in clinical psych to be able to apply to the program.
I think that it makes sense to say that if you have a truly terminal degree such as a doctorate in another field, or an unrelated degree such as an MBA, that reasoning makes much more sense.
Just my $0.02.
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I had a MA in General Psych with an Experimental concentration before applying for a Ph.D. in Social Psych. The main reason I did it was because I was in a combined BA/MA Psych program in undergrad, and I was halfway done with the MA when I earned my BA.
If I wasn't halfway done, I doubt I would have gone for it, but...
In my experience, there's a big difference between undergrad and master's level courses. The MA courses tended to be much more focused on reading journal articles rather than textbooks, and there was a good deal more writing. The stats classes were on an entirely different level as well (undergrad topped out at regression, grad topped out with factor analysis, logistic regression, and a little bit of structural equations modeling). You're also in much smaller classes (depending on your undergrad), so you'll likely get pretty solid letters of recommendation if you make a good impression on your profs. Plus, the masters thesis will help you stand out.
Again, I don't know what effect it would have for future clinicians, but it definitely helped my application for Social.
If I wasn't halfway done, I doubt I would have gone for it, but...
In my experience, there's a big difference between undergrad and master's level courses. The MA courses tended to be much more focused on reading journal articles rather than textbooks, and there was a good deal more writing. The stats classes were on an entirely different level as well (undergrad topped out at regression, grad topped out with factor analysis, logistic regression, and a little bit of structural equations modeling). You're also in much smaller classes (depending on your undergrad), so you'll likely get pretty solid letters of recommendation if you make a good impression on your profs. Plus, the masters thesis will help you stand out.
Again, I don't know what effect it would have for future clinicians, but it definitely helped my application for Social.
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If you have had your masters and worked for a couple of years, I think it is less of an issue because programs understand that your experiences working have yielded reasons to pursue a higher degree. I think the argument would be, though, that if you are coming straight from a masters program, why didn't you consider all of these reasons before entering the field?
But I'm sure it depends on the school. I also don't hold strong views on the matter one way or another, I'm only repeating what I've seen people post on this board in previous threads.
Do programs expect you to have experience with performing therapy if you only have a BA? For example, I've interned in a psychiatric unit and I have volunteered in a children's hospital, but I have never actually performed therapy given the fact that I am not lisenced and don't have a masters....
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Having good "people skills"? Absolutely. Performing actual therapy with clients? I don't think that would be reasonable given that you don't yet meet the requirements that would allow you to do so...
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Clinical experience is a funny thing with a lot of programs. It doesn't hold much sway with the more research-oriented programs, but it probably does make a bigger difference for clinically-focused programs (and I would certainly think PsyD programs too). While I don't think anyone expects you to have actual therapy experience, the range of clinical experience can be pretty vast. Personally, I had an internship that was very strong clinically, although it did not include actual "therapy." You can PM me for more info. if you'd like.
And I don't have my Master's, although I did do an honors thesis as an undergrad that was virtually on par with a Master's thesis. I have a bunch of interviews lined up, so obviously this route (plus quality research/clinical experiences) worked for me.
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I could see that being the case, but I also think that there is something to be said about programs (mostly PsyD programs from what I've heard) often telling applicants with BA's and BS's that because of there lack of competitiveness that they should enroll in the master's program first, with the intent of then applying for the doctoral program when they are finished. Many PsyD programs have MS/PsyD track programs, and most programs that I know of award an MS after the first two years of the program. I guess what I'm saying is that the MS is less terminal than I think you're saying. Like you said, I don't really have the strongest opinion on the matter, but I enjoy hearing a different perspective on the subject.
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If you are a psych undergrad who is interested in pursuing a doctoral degree in clinical psychology, don't bother getting a masters. I have heard from multiple profs who have stated that a clinical PhD program will cover academically everything you would learn from a master's program. Instead, you should focus on obtaining research experience.
Of course, I can only comment on clinical programs. And this is just for psych undergrads who have solid GPA's. There are plenty of other reasons why this might not apply.
Of course, I can only comment on clinical programs. And this is just for psych undergrads who have solid GPA's. There are plenty of other reasons why this might not apply.
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You raise an interesting point. Obtaining a master's would only have taken one semester longer than the route I chose, and funded slots are available, saving money. On the face of it, your comparison puts each option on equal footing, or perhaps favors the master's option. Let me explain why I find this to be a specious argument (thanks, GRE).
Funded master's slots may exist, but they are more the exception than the rule, wouldn't you agree? At least you might admit that there are more unfunded slots than funded ones? Therefore the pure odds are against it. Furthermore, competition for such funded slots is heavy. It would have been an act optimism to the point of pretentiousness to presume to obtain one. And without obtaining one, the cost per credit is appreciably higher in graduate than in undergraduate studies. Add to this months of time lost to the master's program application process, and the two routes don't stack up nearly so equally as you would have us believe, neither in time nor dollars spent.
By taking undergraduate course work part time, and working full time at a reasonably "real" job, I've been able to save enough money that I can now hope to augment the poverty wages that grad schools offer as a stipend and that grad students consider themselves lucky to get (and are lucky, I might add). No funded master's could have compared financially to that.
So in my situation, what I did worked out right for me...so far. The fourth interview invite came today. But really, I was just following advice. It was no brilliant flash of insight on my part, and I don't wish to suggest otherwise. Time will tell, in any event. There are just so many intangibles related to how professors select applicants for interview and then for fellowships. There's no one answer that's correct for everyone.
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I would not recommend someone take an unfunded slot when they are hoping to get into a Ph.D. program later. RA gigs are preferable at that point. I do agree that unfunded slots are more common than funded slots. However your line of thought indicates that the latter are not even worth applying for in the first place. I think this is extreme. You also don't have to accept offers that do not provide funding that meets your standards.
Doesn't this depend on the two particular programs you're comparing? I suppose it also depends on part time versus full time enrollment.
The process of applying to programs is not so intense that you can't apply while working full time. It's not as intense as applying to Ph.D. programs either. It is more time consuming than applying to take undergraduate credits though, and if that is a large deterrent for people, then that's something they should definitely take into consideration.
I agree that you made the right choice for you. I made the right choice for myself. My stipend amounted to the same amount I was making at my "real job" and I got to do work that was a lot more stimulating.
I was merely bringing up my argument to show people that there is nothing inherently wrong with getting a general masters first. It is definitely an individualized decision.
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I didn't get into one program last year because I didn't have a Masters. Soo it really depends on the school.
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Well, I have a masters but I still haven't heard any kind of response from my schools yet, so....
I've done my studies is areas other that psych (Biology for undergrad and my masters was in Brain & Mind Sciences). However I do have quite a bit of research experience in several labs working on mental health topics so I'm hoping this will help (in addition to very nice psych GRE scores).
TBA if my weird background is a major hindrance.... :S
I've done my studies is areas other that psych (Biology for undergrad and my masters was in Brain & Mind Sciences). However I do have quite a bit of research experience in several labs working on mental health topics so I'm hoping this will help (in addition to very nice psych GRE scores).
TBA if my weird background is a major hindrance.... :S
I can't speak to other masters programs, but I was well funded in mine provided it was a masters. My tuition was waived the first year til residency could be established and I recieved a 7500 RA/TA gig. Not a lot, but good enough for sure. No competition. Every person entering recieves the same gig- be it for clinical, general experimental, or school psychology. costs per credit weren't that much higher either as i recall.
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In general, a terminal masters won't do much for you in regard to competitiveness for a clinical/counseling Ph.D. Some people will complete a MHC or SW program, but honestly their time would be better spent as an RA or in a more relevant MA/MS program. I mention relevant because the types of course you'd take in a research/experimental masters are more in line with what you'd take in a doctoral program. Sometimes people can get a few classes waived during their first year, though i doubt more than 9-12 credits would transfer into a doctoral program.
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LaSalle Psy.D. will transfer 18 credits.
Chestnut Hill College will transfer up to 30 credits for entry directly into year 2.
Just two schools in my area that I'm aware of, don't know about other schools.
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