How many people get HP on their AIs in a given year?

[asdf1192]

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Seems like there is no clarity on this issue. Is a HP terrible? Is it average? How many people in your rotation end up with HP vs H, and how does it impact them? Does it mean applying to 20 extra programs and a backup specialty? Does it mean being challenged at every interview about why you didn't get Honors? Thanks

 

[Druggernaut]

Totally dependent upon where you're rotating. Some places may give 5-10% honors, others give them out like candy. They indicate the percentage on your SLOE, and it can be interpreted accordingly by programs and your interviewers.

It certainly does not mean applying to a backup specialty, and by itself does not mean applying to 20 extra programs.

 

[RustedFox]

Yet another reason why I hate "grading systems" that make zero sense this side of 2000.

"Is a HP terrible? Is it average?"

Its "high-pass", so by the very meanings of the words involved, it should be above average, at the very least. Words have no meaning anymore.

 

[doggydog]

Yet another reason why I hate "grading systems" that make zero sense this side of 2000.

"Is a HP terrible? Is it average?"

Its "high-pass", so by the very meanings of the words involved, it should be above average, at the very least. Words have no meaning anymore.

It should be above average, but it definitely has become average. A pass is almost a death sentence at this point.

 

[UCA2390]

It should be above average, but it definitely has become average. A pass is almost a death sentence at this point.

I cant tell if you're being facetious or not, but how is a pass a kiss of death? If program gives away 10% honors, and there are EM bound students rotating, many of them will get Pass alone and likely still match. Or am I just HORRIBLY mis-informed? I know at my program we had 8 EM bound students rotate through last month and only 1 of us got honors, everyone else was a pass.

 

[Makati2008]

I cant tell if you're being facetious or not, but how is a pass a kiss of death? If program gives away 10% honors, and there are EM bound students rotating, many of them will get Pass alone and likely still match. Or am I just HORRIBLY mis-informed? I know at my program we had 8 EM bound students rotate through last month and only 1 of us got honors, everyone else was a pass.

I know of a program that use a H/HP/P as a screening tool. If you get a pass, no invite


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[Psai]

I know of a program that use a H/HP/P as a screening tool. If you get a pass, no invite


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Geez.

 

[CliveStaples]

Isn't this what the SLOEs are for? Lots of programs don't even have honors or whatever, so the distinction is meaningless except to compare people who rotated at the same institution. The grade itself doesn't matter much to me - it's the quality of the SLOE that would seem to make the biggest difference.

 

[doggydog]

Isn't this what the SLOEs are for? Lots of programs don't even have honors or whatever, so the distinction is meaningless except to compare people who rotated at the same institution. The grade itself doesn't matter much to me - it's the quality of the SLOE that would seem to make the biggest difference.

Quality is hard to gauge too when you have attendings who can't bother to leave a two sentence comment at the end of a shift eval saying anything about your performance.

 

[CliveStaples]

Quality is hard to gauge too when you have attendings who can't bother to leave a two sentence comment at the end of a shift eval saying anything about your performance.

That's a problem, but I think that while the comments in the SLOE are helpful, I think PDs get the most value from the objective grading portion while measures your performance in a variety of categories against other students who rotated at that institution. There might be a few shifts where they don't get a good gauge on your performance, but over an entire month of shifts, lectures, workshops, simulation labs, etc. you can end up with a pretty decent picture about how somebody performed.

 

[Got Em]

It should be above average, but it definitely has become average. A pass is almost a death sentence at this point.

@doggydog where did you get this information, if I may ask? I think someone may have been trying to scare you.

Based on many PDs, APDs, and residents that I have spoken to personally, this is not true. Many (or most) places give 10-15% honors, 15-30% HP, and the rest P. If a Pass is "almost a death sentence", at least 50-60% of applicants will be in trouble. This is definitely not the case. As a matter of fact, multiple PDs and APDs have stated that while they prefer to see H and HP, a P is okay, as long as your SLOE comments are good and the rest of your application is decent.

For an average EM applicant w/ average stats, even you get all Ps on EM aways (w/ good comments), you'll likely match somewhere according to match data. Also, there were 10+ people at my school that matched EM last year and the majority had 1 or 2 Ps on aways.

 

[Got Em]

I know of a program that use a H/HP/P as a screening tool. If you get a pass, no invite


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

That is definitely not the norm, but I can see of a few competitive places doing this.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

This is the whole point of the SLOE, and why its so valuable. I can tell you, at my rotation, a HP puts you in the top 1/3 of students that rotate. The SLOE reflects that, and shows a percentage of how many people get each grade. An Honors is meaningless from a rotation where 50% get Honors and 50% get HP. But if 10% get Honors, and 25% get HP, then either of those grades are very good and a pass there doesn't mean you are a bad student. Its all about the breakdown, and its why the SLOE has become so very important when screening applicants.

Not grading is even worse. Nothing is less objective than "everyone gets a pass". That only hurts candidates. Having a truly objective grading scale where faculty actually critically have to decide who the top 10, top 1/3, middle 1/3, etc candidates is extremely important.

Of note, nothing ticks me off more about grades/SLOES than when I read a SLOE writers SLOE and see their breakdown and it says something like:

Total SLOES written: 20
Top 10: 10
Top 1/3: 8
Mid 1/3: 2
Low 1/3: 0

Stuff like this drives me nuts as an clinical educator. How you can be a physician and not understand basic math is beyond me. It really hurts the students in the long run, because it makes them all just look like average students, and I'm sure some of them are truly standout ones.