How many POIs?

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I see there's a thread on this already, but with only 3 replies...

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=786578

How many POIs did you contact before getting in?

Were they all great fits on paper AND in person, or did the conversation determine more about the overall "fit"?

Are phone conversations as good as in person?

How much information is best to include in the introductory email.

Insider's Guide has a sample email, but it seems a bit artificial-- plunging right in and attempting to discuss study design, etc...

I've just introduced myself and stated interest and requested a visit.

Is this sufficient?

Are 14 POIs- one per school-- enough? How did this work out in your experiences?

 

[syzergy]

I see there's a thread on this already, but with only 3 replies...

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=786578

How many POIs did you contact before getting in?

Were they all great fits on paper AND in person, or did the conversation determine more about the overall "fit"?

Are phone conversations as good as in person?

How much information is best to include in the introductory email.

Insider's Guide has a sample email, but it seems a bit artificial-- plunging right in and attempting to discuss study design, etc...

I've just introduced myself and stated interest and requested a visit.

Is this sufficient?

Are 14 POIs- one per school-- enough? How did this work out in your experiences?

I applied to 14 schools. I emailed at least one POI at each school sometimes 2-3 if we had matching interests. The email was really to see if they were planning to accept students for the next cycle. I stated some of my research interests and that I thought we would be a match. Some replied, others didn't. Those who weren't taking students let me know so I didn't waste my money sending in an application. Don't request a meeting. That's kind of pushy and faculty certainly don't have time to meet with 100+ students that are applying. You get to meet with the faculty if you're invited for an interview. Keep it brief and light. Some faculty will reply and want more information. Others won't.

 

[mewtoo]

I applied to 14 schools. I emailed at least one POI at each school sometimes 2-3 if we had matching interests. The email was really to see if they were planning to accept students for the next cycle. I stated some of my research interests and that I thought we would be a match. Some replied, others didn't. Those who weren't taking students let me know so I didn't waste my money sending in an application. Don't request a meeting. That's kind of pushy and faculty certainly don't have time to meet with 100+ students that are applying. You get to meet with the faculty if you're invited for an interview. Keep it brief and light. Some faculty will reply and want more information. Others won't.

Did you attach your CV in the first email? I've heard some people say that you should, but I'm not sure if its exactly appropriate. To me I think its kind of pushy to do so if they didn't ask for it.

 

[printscreen]

Nope, no CV. Just a request to talk on the phone. For some reason, I feel more confident in judging the dynamic and making my point why they should accept me (!) over the phone.

I think it just provides more information than email does for some reason-- plus, I'm sooo busy and a broke recent grad 😉 so if we're not a match, I'd rather they just refused me right away.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

I would advise against requesting a visit. It's enough to email, introduce yourself, say something intelligent about your match with their interests, see if they're taking students in the next cycle and get your name on their radar. If they look at your app materials and decide to interview you, then you can visit the program. But faculty really don't have time to let applicants visit before the interview stage.

+1. In general, I'd say if they're interested in meeting/speaking with you, they'll let you know. Otherwise, all they might have time for is a quick email.

I don't see anything wrong with attaching a CV and, as psycscientist mentioned, talking (briefly) about your match/interests and asking if they're accepting students for the coming year. Anything more than that, I'd save until they reply and make it known that they're interested in further discussion.

As for raw number, I applied to around 12-14 programs, and contacted at least one POI at each (I think I emailed more than one POI at only perhaps two or three sites).

 

[psychRA]

I think that ultimately, the same approach is not going to work for every POI, so I'd err on the side of not being too demanding. Asking for a meeting is too much. In my opinion, even a phone call is pushing it - POIs have busy schedules, and frankly, that's why we have interview days, so they can meet with people in an organized manner. Granted, my mentor in my program tends to be a bit socially anxious, and she really doesn't even like to chat with applicants when they seek her out at conferences. She does a very thorough reading of applicant files, and prefers to base her interview decisions on the application materials. So for her, getting a barrage of applicant emails that require some kind of follow up is actually stressful.

As for me, I applied to 12 clinical programs, got interviews at 6, got accepted to 6. I contacted zero POIs ahead of time. I turned out just fine.

 

[wigflip]

As for me, I applied to 12 clinical programs, got interviews at 6, got accepted to 6. I contacted zero POIs ahead of time. I turned out just fine.

Wow! That's pretty impressive. Congrats!

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Wow! That's pretty impressive. Congrats!

Agreed, good job.

I'd say the take-home message is this: contacting POIs prior to applying is generally recommended (if for no other reason than to possibly avoid spending money on an application to work with someone who won't be taking students), but certainly isn't necessary. This is only for Ph.D. and the more research-heavy/mentorship-model Psy.D. programs, mind you.

If you do contact POIs, keep the emails brief, include a CV if you're so inclined, try to avoid making any explicit requests regarding a meeting (whether via telephone or in-person), and in all honesty, don't expect a timely reply. However, if you don't hear back, don't take that to mean the POI isn't interested in you; many professors can be notoriously bad about remembering to reply to emails, particularly at the beginnings of new semesters.

Beyond that, there really is no "magic number" of POIs to contact. Some people contact dozens, and others don't contact any. Just use your best judgment and go with whatever most suits you.

 

[psychRA]

Wow! That's pretty impressive. Congrats!

Thanks, and I hope that I didn't come across as snotty! When I was applying, all of my peers were totally on the ball when it came to making a list early, getting in touch with POIs, seeking out faculty members at conferences, etc., and I was just too overwhelmed and anxious to network the way that they all did.

In the end, some of my peers got into lots of programs, and some got into one or two (or none). Then there was me - at the time, I thought I was totally failing at the process because I wasn't contacting POIs, but it worked out just fine. I just want to reassure applicants that there's more than one way to get in!

 

[InNae]

Nope, no CV. Just a request to talk on the phone. For some reason, I feel more confident in judging the dynamic and making my point why they should accept me (!) over the phone.

I think it just provides more information than email does for some reason-- plus, I'm sooo busy and a broke recent grad 😉 so if we're not a match, I'd rather they just refused me right away.

It's probably a good idea to consider the POI's perspective rather than just your own. The POI has zero idea whether s/he would like to take the time out of a very busy schedule to talk with you if you don't provide basic information and a CV up front. Also, POIs have many students contacting them, so it is rather risky to depend on memory for one phone conversation rather than well-prepared and presented written information.

Perhaps you were joking with the "I'm sooo busy" statement? I guarantee you're nowhere near as busy as the POI.

 

[printscreen]

Perhaps you were joking with the "I'm sooo busy" statement? I guarantee you're nowhere near as busy as the POI.

I think that's tricky. POIs are out there drafting statements of purpose, networking, and trying to get published. It's hard to say whether these things take that many more hours at the Assistant or Associate Professor level than at the student level.Also my current PI that I work for networks and makes requests of more advanced "senior" faculty all the time, but I know part of the reason for his success is that he extends a lot of energy in the other direction doing stuff for his students- it makes the lab work harder to know he's not too busy for us. He does take requests to meet informally with applicants-- we had 2 today. Of course, every lab and every PI is different.

 

[printscreen]

I think that ultimately, the same approach is not going to work for every POI, so I'd err on the side of not being too demanding. Asking for a meeting is too much. In my opinion, even a phone call is pushing it - POIs have busy schedules, and frankly, that's why we have interview days, so they can meet with people in an organized manner. Granted, my mentor in my program tends to be a bit socially anxious, and she really doesn't even like to chat with applicants when they seek her out at conferences. She does a very thorough reading of applicant files, and prefers to base her interview decisions on the application materials. So for her, getting a barrage of applicant emails that require some kind of follow up is actually stressful.

As for me, I applied to 12 clinical programs, got interviews at 6, got accepted to 6. I contacted zero POIs ahead of time. I turned out just fine.

Wow, that's pretty great... something tells me it must have been a strong stand-alone app though.

Social anxiety is not something that I'd even considered; well I guess psychologists are not immune. 🙂

 

[cara susanna]

I'm REALLY bitter about the whole contacting POIs thing. I got 3 interviews and they were all with people I didn't email beforehand. I met two that I'd emailed at a conference and they didn't recognize my name at ALL, which indicates that my email alone did not leave an impression.

Although I guess I could be a terrible emailer?

 

[mewtoo]

I'm REALLY bitter about the whole contacting POIs thing. I got 3 interviews and they were all with people I didn't email beforehand. I met two that I'd emailed at a conference and they didn't recognize my name at ALL, which indicates that my email alone did not leave an impression.

Although I guess I could be a terrible emailer?

Or they could be like one of my mentors who is scatterbrained and inundated with e-mails all the time. You also never know what in the world was going on in their lives or what they were doing while reading their email. Or they could be like me and need to have the name attached to a face. Try to not take it personally.... now I just need to take my own advice as I apply this fall. 😀