How many psych LORs do I need ?

[Kobebucsfan]

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I havent different numbers, just wanted to get a final confirmation. so far I have 2 letters from IM

will be doing psych electives soon for psych LORs

 

[Taddy Mason]

I’d suggest 4 minimum, with at least 2 psych, even though some programs only require 3. That said, try and get 5-6 so you have back-ups - trust me, I learned the hard way. Some programs require a Dept. chair letter so I would also suggest contacting that individual now so he/she can get to know you and write a more personable letter.

 

[michiganpsych08]

I agree you will generally only need 3, but some programs require 4. I had a total of 4 with 3 being psych and 1 being IM. Be sure to ask for letters early. I requested all my letters as soon as ERAS was accepting them so I wasn't waiting on letters and my app could be complete September 15th

 

[Stagg737]

Agree with what's already been said. Go for 4 letters with at least 2 being psych (I had 2 psych, 1 FM, 1 OB/GYN), ideally 1 being from a chair if possible. I also agree with getting letters early and just saving them/uploading them when the app opens. Imo there's no reason for your application to not be complete on Sept 15, so get your letters early and stay ahead of the game.

 

[Kobebucsfan]

i appreciate all your help. im applying in september have so many questions. im glad i found this forum, didnt think i would get so many replies

 

[Kobebucsfan]

im having a hard time scheduling psych electives thru my school. they r all booked until like october. I only have 1 psych scheduled in july and a neuro in august. Do any programs when i apply for residency require 3 psych letters ? or is 2 psych letters enough

 

[Taddy Mason]

im having a hard time scheduling psych electives thru my school. they r all booked until like october. I only have 1 psych scheduled in july and a neuro in august. Do any programs when i apply for residency require 3 psych letters ? or is 2 psych letters enough

I applied to ~45 programs and don’t recall any specifically requiring 2 psych letters, though a number of them did say 2 psych letters were preferred. IIRC only one required 4 letters (not including MSPE).

 

[splik]

you should look at the requirements for each program but almost no program requires more than 3 LoRS, and typically only one needs to be a psychiatry letter, but most applicants will have more than one psych letter. Typically programs who say they want 4 letters are including the MSPE/Dean's Letter as a "letter". Your letters should be from the people who know you best, and are able to write the best letter for you. Whether that is a psychiatrist, a plastic surgeon, radiation oncologist, or urologist matters less. The most important thing is that your letters are as strong as possible and the person knows you. a letter from some well known psychiatrist who you met once is meaningless. OTOH if you happen to know a rockstar psychiatrist very well who is able to comment on your clinical performance then that is fine. Remember, strong letters from non-psychiatrists also carry some weight because you will have to do half an intern year so we want to know you can cut it.

Having only one letter from a psychiatrist is sufficient. Having 3 psych letters may be too many. You should ideally have at least one medicine/peds letter because I want to know your skills are sufficient to survive your medicine/peds month. a neurology letter would also be good. As already stated, most important thing is that the letter writers know you will and are able to sing your praises with specific examples rather than writing vague statements.

 

[Kobebucsfan]

thank you so much, all of you. in your fourth years, how many psych electives have you done.

My only psych electives will be one in July and another one signed up in November. everything is booked or I would have done more before the september application submission. My school also has affiliation with hospitals in Asia and Europe. I'm thinking about doing a psych elective there, hoping it would be a great experience and might stand out in application. but its out of the country, not sure if that is frowned upon.

so basically my plan is
July - psych elective
August- psych elective outside the country
November - psych elective

im gonna try hard and bother my coordinator some more to find some psych electives for me in september or october

 

[Taddy Mason]

Honestly I wouldn’t load your 4th year with psych electives 1-2 is plenty. I did a sub-I/AI at a state hospital and CD elective that I switched to from an ICU elective less than a week prior to the rotation just because it would be more flexible with scheduling residency interviews (it actually turned out to be an awesome rotation and am really glad I made the switch). I’d recommend a IM sub-I/AI, possibly a neuro elective, and then just do stuff that seems fun/interesting or are in areas where you really won’t get to experience after you start residency (e.g., surg, gas, IR, etc.).

 

[Kobebucsfan]

Honestly I wouldn’t load your 4th year with psych electives 1-2 is plenty. I did a sub-I/AI at a state hospital and CD elective that I switched to from an ICU elective less than a week prior to the rotation just because it would be more flexible with scheduling residency interviews (it actually turned out to be an awesome rotation and am really glad I made the switch). I’d recommend a IM sub-I/AI, possibly a neuro elective, and then just do stuff that seems fun/interesting or are in areas where you really won’t get to experience after you start residency (e.g., surg, gas, IR, etc.).

hmm interesting, all i heard is u have to show the committee that you are interested and to show that u have to do lot of psych electives. like maybe in interview they say "hmm u only done 2 psych electives, why so few", that would scare me

 

[Taddy Mason]

hmm interesting, all i heard is u have to show the committee that you are interested and to show that u have to do lot of psych electives. like maybe in interview they say "hmm u only done 2 psych electives, why so few", that would scare me

There are numerous other ways to show a genuine interest in psych. Also remember that programs will only know what electives you’ve taken 4th year up to the point that your MSPE is written and submitted to ERAS, which is only ~2-3 electives depending when you start 4th year. None of my 4th year psych electives were listed on anything in ERAS and it never came up as an issue during interviews.

 

[Kobebucsfan]

You are awesome! You have been great help.

So my school has this elective opportunity where i can go to a diff country and do a psych elective 😳ctober8 to Nov 2
are these bad dates for interview season ?

 

[Taddy Mason]

You are awesome! You have been great help.

So my school has this elective opportunity where i can go to a diff country and do a psych elective 😳ctober8 to Nov 2
are these bad dates for interview season ?

You should be okay. You’re usually given a range of dates to pick from if offered an interview, so you’ll have some flexibility. Also, most programs don’t start interviews until early November. Check the interview invite threads from last year if you want a more specific idea as to when IIs go out and interviews generally start.

 

[Doctorows]

For what it's worth, I went to 3 interviews by the end of October last year. And all of my interview invitations came in and were scheduled before November. The time zone difference may get in the way somewhat when it comes to refreshing your email multiple times a day during a season when interview slots fill in a matter of hours for some programs. Just something to keep in mind, too.

 

[FlowRate]

I can only think of one program that requires a Chair letter and it's UNC. They don't actually require a chair letter. I interviewed there without one.

 

[Taddy Mason]

I can only think of one program that requires a Chair letter and it's UNC. They don't actually require a chair letter. I interviewed there without one.

I deleted the Excel spreadsheet I made when applying about 1 week ago. But I know I applied to 2 programs that explicitly required a department chair letter. I applied to UNC and they weren’t one of the 2. I mainly applied upper Midwest, Great Lakes, and East Coast and I’m 99% positive both programs that required department chair letters were in the Midwest/Great Lakes region.

 

[Doctorows]

If there are programs very high on your list that "require" a chair letter to consider your application (this may be a loose requirement anyway - I was definitely offered interviews by programs that had similar requirements, like CK/CS score to interview, without having initially met them) I say go ahead and try to get that chair letter. But don't go crazy over it, and definitely prioritize getting a strong letter from a psychiatrist who actually knows you/has worked with you. I was specifically told by one program director during my interview that she didn't care about chair letters because she knew that they were a formality on a generic template.
I had one psych letter, one IM, and one research, and saved the chair letter for programs that wanted 4. By the way, if a program lists 3 letters in their "How to apply section" most often that actually means they just want 3, not 4 or 5+.

 

[FlowRate]

I deleted the Excel spreadsheet I made when applying about 1 week ago. But I know I applied to 2 programs that explicitly required a department chair letter. I applied to UNC and they weren’t one of the 2. I mainly applied upper Midwest, Great Lakes, and East Coast and I’m 99% positive both programs that required department chair letters were in the Midwest/Great Lakes region.

Ah I didn't apply in that region. But UNC's website, unless they updated it since I applied, did state explicitly that it was required.

 

[OldPsychDoc]

I deleted the Excel spreadsheet I made when applying about 1 week ago. But I know I applied to 2 programs that explicitly required a department chair letter. I applied to UNC and they weren’t one of the 2. I mainly applied upper Midwest, Great Lakes, and East Coast and I’m 99% positive both programs that required department chair letters were in the Midwest/Great Lakes region.

Really a ridiculous, outmoded requirement...we'd much rather have a letter from someone who knows you well and has worked with you clinically.

 

[MacDonaldTriad]

90% of letters are average (I know the statistical stupidity of this statement), but they are worth reading because of the 5% that are scathing and the 5% that are from someone you trust.

 

[FatherPsychiatry]

When I applied, I had 2 psych, 1 non-psych, and my home program department chair letter. None of the content of my letters was specifically commented on during interviews (besides generic stuff like "all your letters were good"), except if my interviewer happened to have known one of the letter writers.

90% of letters are average (I know the statistical stupidity of this statement), but they are worth reading because of the 5% that are scathing and the 5% that are from someone you trust.

This is very true. When I reviewed apps these past couple years, all the letters I saw were fairly generic stuff ie "med student rotated with us, built good rapport with patients and contributed to the team" and some might have added a presentation or specific case example a student worked on. I don't think I noted anything that stood out besides 1) negative things about an applicant or 2) I knew the letter writer