How many schools to apply to? 3.66/3.99/521

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How many schools should I apply to?

  • 20 schools - increased chances?

    Votes: 47 71.2%
  • 15 schools to save $750 for an extra interview/moving

    Votes: 19 28.8%

  • Total voters
    66
9

907914

Howdy, all! I have run in to the issue of there really not being a whole lot of schools that my stats match to that are in a location my family (wife and child) would do well in/like. I have saved enough money for 20 school applications and 4 interviews, but there are really only about 15 schools where my stats match that we would all enjoy.. What should I go with?
 
With your stats, and a good rest of your app, I imagine you will have a great cycle even with just 15 carefully chosen schools.
You only need to attend one school in the end so keep that in mind. However, I did not expect to get into the school where I will be matriculating in the fall so you might also be surprised with a broad enough list.

You will do great.

Best luck!
 
Which is more important: having a place you and your family “would all enjoy” or maximizes your chances of being a doctor?
I have the question mark because I am unsure: Will applying to 5 more schools really increase my odds that much if I have a really well thought out list of 15 schools?

By “all enjoy” I mean good public schools for daughter, good job prospects for my wife, and low COL.
 
My question still remains
Which is more important. You becoming a doctor to family being happy?
Family being happy. Doesn’t mean the two are mutually exclusive. Far from it, I would think.

I just don’t know if I am overthinking it - I know I have a statistically good chance of getting in somewhere, but I don’t know the ‘odds’ difference between applying 20 schools and 15.

I always tell people on here “don’t apply somewhere you wouldn’t actually want to go,” and I am having a hard time convincing myself of that. There are a solid 10 schools I had on my list that I would have loved before I got my MCAT back that I am like 3 points higher than their 90th%. This is a good problem to have for most, so i am not trying to complain.
 
Family being happy. Doesn’t mean the two are mutually exclusive. Far from it, I would think.

I just don’t know if I am overthinking it - I know I have a statistically good chance of getting in somewhere, but I don’t know the ‘odds’ difference between applying 20 schools and 15.

I always tell people on here “don’t apply somewhere you wouldn’t actually want to go,” and I am having a hard time convincing myself of that. There are a solid 10 schools I had on my list that I would have loved before I got my MCAT back that I am like 3 points higher than their 90th%. This is a good problem to have for most, so i am not trying to complain.

Don’t worry about yield protection as long as you show interest in the school. There are still a lot of schools that won’t yield protect you.
 
Don’t worry about yield protection as long as you show interest in the school. There are still a lot of schools that won’t yield protect you.
Very true. On another note though, wouldn’t it also be a disservice to myself not to apply to the schools with the best ‘name’ that I can get in to? (I could care less about the prestige for the sake of prestige; I care about the financial aid, the resources and support for students, and the boost for the match).
 
Very true. On another note though, wouldn’t it also be a disservice to myself not to apply to the schools with the best ‘name’ that I can get in to? (I could care less about the prestige for the sake of prestige; I care about the financial aid, the resources and support for students, and the boost for the match).

You’re going different directions here. Ultimately, it’s your job to decide what’s important in your life and go ahead with that.
 
You’re going different directions here. Ultimately, it’s your job to decide what’s important in your life and go ahead with that.
I am going different directions. Hence the question and the poll lol
 
I am going different directions. Hence the question and the poll lol

Bottom line is that of course you’re gonna do better with 20 vs. 15 schools. How much better? Well, that’s almost impossible to quantify. If I were in your situation I would go ahead and apply to 20 schools because you will regret having to take an extra cycle much more than having to pay for 5 secondary fees that you didn’t need to.
 
More schools can make a huge difference for finances, if not admission. You're very likely to get in somewhere applying to only 15. Multiple places, really.

But I had two similarly ranked schools give me need-based packages that were going to be $80,000 difference in total, due to minor differences in their policies about whether they recalculated yearly or locked you in four all for years. I also got a huge scholarship offer from one school, and rejected without interview from several similar schools ranked around it.

None of this can be predicted very well, and that extra few places you're considering could end up saving you six figures.
 
Apply to 20. Maybe you will get only 4 interviews and 2 will be at these 5 not so perfect schools. If you can do those first it would be good interview experience for the other 2 you want. No way to predict the future and it’s better to be safe than sorry.
 
I think you should apply to 20. You can make those extra schools places you’d all enjoy but think you might get yield protected. You can explain in secondaries why the schools are a good match and I think you’ll have a shot.

I say this as someone who applied to only 16 schools. I had a great cycle and could have probably only applied to 12. But that’s all hindsight and I’m glad I shelled out the money for the extra applications. Better safe than sorry.
 
Apply to as many as you can possibly afford. You have no idea how you'll do, despite your great stats. My stats were not as good as yours, but they were good and well within the heartland of many good schools. I applied to 24 schools, got one interview, and was admitted to that one. And, incidentally, that one was a school where my girlfriend told me that I had no shot because my overall package was not a good fit. You just never know, so you should absolutely maximize your chances of acceptance.
 
I will echo what others are saying. Even with good stats, statistically, your chances of being accepted at any individual school are low, especially at "top" schools. I have similar stats to you and I will be applying to many more than 15 schools.
 
How real/common is yield protection; does my lower cGPA save me from that?
My stats were relatively similar to yours. I would say you're in an even better position than I was, but my narrative was fairly unique in my opinion. Regardless, I got interviews from schools all up and down the spectrum from top 20 schools to "unranked" schools. I applied to 37 schools, and received interviews from 22 IIRC. We're not the same person, but I wouldn't worry too much about yield protection with a 3.6x. If I were in your position a year ago, I would have been concerned only applying to 15 schools (depending on which schools they were), but in retrospect if your list isn't too top heavy, it's definitely possible that you can make it work.
 
OK, by a vote of 22 to 9, the "Apply to 20 schools" have it.
Any input on this list?

  • Cincinnati - 517
  • Creighton - 511
  • Duke - 518
  • Einstein - 516
  • Harvard - 520
  • Jefferson - 514
  • Ohio - 517
  • Stanford - 520
  • UCLA - 518
  • UCSF - 518
  • UNC - 514
  • University of Iowa - 514
  • University of Michigan - 518
  • University of Washington - 511
  • University of Wisconsin - 513
  • USF/Morsani - 517
  • UVA - 519
  • UVM - 512
  • Washington State University – 509
  • Washington University – Saint Louis - 522

    1) So, red are the schools where I worry yield protection will keep me out.
    2) Green are the schools where I worry my low cGPA (Despite fantastic sGPA/MCAT/ECs) will keep me out
    3) Yellow are my state schools - I am well above all of their metrics, but they are still my state schools so I should apply, right?
 
You won't get yield protected at your state schools. They know they are the most affordable option and will appreciate someone with a high MCAT. You and I are in a similar boat GPA, MCAT, and EC-wise. I think your list is good, but I'm assuming "Ohio" is Ohio State?
 
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OK, by a vote of 22 to 9, the "Apply to 20 schools" have it.
Any input on this list?

  • Cincinnati - 517
  • Creighton - 511
  • Duke - 518
  • Einstein - 516
  • Harvard - 520
  • Jefferson - 514
  • Ohio - 517
  • Stanford - 520
  • UCLA - 518
  • UCSF - 518
  • UNC - 514
  • University of Iowa - 514
  • University of Michigan - 518
  • University of Washington - 511
  • University of Wisconsin - 513
  • USF/Morsani - 517
  • UVA - 519
  • UVM - 512
  • Washington State University – 509
  • Washington University – Saint Louis - 522

    1) So, red are the schools where I worry yield protection will keep me out.
    2) Green are the schools where I worry my low cGPA (Despite fantastic sGPA/MCAT/ECs) will keep me out
    3) Yellow are my state schools - I am well above all of their metrics, but they are still my state schools so I should apply, right?
I might add a few more of the places that are all about MCAT, and take off some of the low yield public and private schools. E.g. your choice of Northwestern, U Chicago, Vandy, Sinai, Case Western, NYU instead of Creighton, Jefferson, Iowa, Wisconsin or Vermont. Especially the public ones, they're not gonna believe you'd pick them over UW.

U Washington and Washington State are such a good safety net for you that I think you can mostly aim at match and reach schools with the rest of your list
 
In addition to those listed above, add Pitt! Full disclosure, I'm biased. That said, I have similar stats and got in, and they are very friendly to non-trads and families. If you already made the changes above, I'd sub Pitt for Ohio State or Cincy.
 
WashU loves high MCATs and will show you the money so you show 'em the love.
Same for Northwestern, U Chicago and Vanderbilt, they all love offering scholarships for majority of tuition. Would make those three priority to add
 
In addition to those listed above, add Pitt! Full disclosure, I'm biased. That said, I have similar stats and got in, and they are very friendly to non-trads and families. If you already made the changes above, I'd sub Pitt for Ohio State or Cincy.
Hmm, You know I never considered Pittsburgh. All I knew about Pittsburgh was from this scene in an episode of fairly odd parents some 14 years ago:
261708


After further research, yah I will definitely add Pitt to my list in place of an Ohio school. Both Ohio schools seem about on par with each other academically (as far as I can tell...) so which is the better town, Columbus or Cincinnati?
Don't worry about GPA. You are getting the LizzyM 5 point boost there... particularly given that some of that coursework was done while you were in the service. WashU loves high MCATs and will show you the money so you show 'em the love.
To the first bolded: I get that, it is just difficult not to stigmatize ones self. Particularly looking at both cGPA and how my research is only like 500ish hours across 2 years...granted, as you said, there is the military and extensive clinical experience. Just as far as top schools are concerned, I keep getting hung up on the cGPA and the higher-than-average-but-low-for-T10 research. Thank you for the words of confidence.

To the second bolded: Do schools such as these really just throw money at whoever to see what sticks? Or are you specifically commenting on my potential for scholarship? On a side note, I can tell they love high MCAT - how the hell do you even get a 522 median?! There are only 800 applicants who are even above a 520!
Same for Northwestern, U Chicago and Vanderbilt, they all love offering scholarships for majority of tuition. Would make those three priority to add
I will throw Vandy in there. Same for U chicago - it is in a nice but still 'affordable-ish' area of Chicago. In another post, LizzyM told me that Northwestern is in an expensive and/or cramped part of chicago despite being a nice area. Any Chicagoan's that can confirm? If so, I will leave Northwestern off for family's sake.
 
I suggest the following

  • Cincinnati - 517
  • Creighton - 511 OR SLU
  • Duke - 518
  • Einstein - 516
  • Harvard - 520 OR Stanford - 520 OR NYU
  • Jefferson - 514
  • Ohio - 517
  • BU
  • UCLA - 518 OR UCSF - 518
  • University of Iowa - 514
  • University of Michigan - 518 OR UVA - 519
  • University of Washington - 511
  • University of Wisconsin - 513
  • USF/Morsani - 517
  • Washington University – Saint Louis - 522
  • UVM - 512
  • Washington State University – 509
ADD: Case OR Hofstra OR Rochester OR Pitt OR Keck
  • Note that I am being a tad more conservative.
 
I suggest the following

  • Cincinnati - 517
  • Creighton - 511 OR SLU
  • Duke - 518
  • Einstein - 516
  • Harvard - 520 OR Stanford - 520 OR NYU
  • Jefferson - 514
  • Ohio - 517
  • BU
  • UCLA - 518 OR UCSF - 518
  • University of Iowa - 514
  • University of Michigan - 518 OR UVA - 519
  • University of Washington - 511
  • University of Wisconsin - 513
  • USF/Morsani - 517
  • Washington University – Saint Louis - 522
  • UVM - 512
  • Washington State University – 509
ADD: Case OR Hofstra OR Rochester OR Pitt OR Keck
  • Note that I am being a tad more conservative.
Thank you for the list/modifications. I know that is like the third list you have given me, but I greatly appreciate the help in narrowing things down in getting specific!
 
Sorry, I misunderstood. The 5 points, in my experience, has been for active duty. Not reserves. (don't kill the messenger... just going by what I've seen happen with applicants over the years).

WashU will make big scholarship offers to applicants with high MCATS. Gotta get the high MCAT folks away from the coasts and to St. Louis one way or another and money talks.
 
Sorry, I misunderstood. The 5 points, in my experience, has been for active duty. Not reserves. (don't kill the messenger... just going by what I've seen happen with applicants over the years).

WashU will make big scholarship offers to applicants with high MCATS. Gotta get the high MCAT folks away from the coasts and to St. Louis one way or another and money talks.
No, you are all good. I know it is a major difference and I understand the boost for Active Duty. Have heard from others that any military experience is viewed positively, but AD is definitely a moreso thing. Other guy was just insulting. Can probably delete my rant.

That makes sense for WASHU, everyone wants to be on the coasts.
 
You should add Mayo to the list. You can apply to both their Rochester and Scottsdale campuses. They give a holistic review.
 
Well here's a question for curiosity's sake, did you mark that you were a veteran on your application? According to law, reserve soldiers do not count as veterans unless they served 20 years or were on active duty for over 180 days.
I mark “Other” as I am actively in the Inactive Ready Reserve. Were I still in the reserves I would mark reserves. Were I out of the IRR I would still mark ‘other’ and put “Served six years in the reserves” had I been deployed I would mark Veteran. In any case, yes I am checking “yes” to have you ever served in the US Armed Forces, because I have served in the US Armed Forces. Have I served more than 180 days of service? By far, if that is what you are asking. Do I still qualify for VA home loan, GI bill, military discounts at private shops, access to on base, VA health systems, personal financial counseling, mental health counseling, in state tuition waivers, and all other benefits that are granted to Active duty veterans? Yes to all of the above, if that is what you are asking.

Are you trying to pander for a reaction? Are you trying to downplay my role in the reserves so I don’t apply to top tier schools for some reason? Do I get a +5 LizzyM for Military? Probably not. Is it like a +2 or +3? Possibly, but in the context of the extensive leadership, clinical, and volunteer opportunities that being in the military has provided, a ‘Military boost’ is by no means my top priority.
 
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@MemeLord By any chance do you know if HPSP folks are considered active or reserves during their military residency?
 
I don't understand half of what you said but sounds good and best of luck in med school.
In the future, feel free to engage in constructive dialogue before sharing opinions on things you don’t understand. Thanks for the wishes of luck, appreciate it.
 
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@MemeLord By any chance do you know if HPSP folks are considered active or reserves during their military residency?
During military residency? You are active duty, yes. I believe that the residency is counted as TIS as active duty towards retirement but not towards time commitment. During medical school, however, it is not counted as TIS as they are assigned to IRR status (where I am at now). If you are at USHSU, I am not sure if schooling portion counts towards TIS. @Matthew9Thirtyfive would know better.
 
During military residency? You are active duty, yes. I believe that the residency is counted as TIS as active duty towards retirement but not towards time commitment. During medical school, however, it is not counted as TIS as they are assigned to IRR status (where I am at now). If you are at USHSU, I am not sure if schooling portion counts towards TIS. @Matthew9Thirtyfive would know better.

You are correct. You incur a commitment for HPSP and for residency, which you serve concurrently. Residency counts as time in service toward retirement but not toward commitment, as you said. The time in med school is IRR time and does not count toward TIS or retirement.

At USUHS, the time in med school is active duty but does not count toward TIS. However, it counts toward the multiplier when you do retire. So when you hit your 20 years, if you retire then it will be for 24 years.
 
Sorry, I misunderstood. The 5 points, in my experience, has been for active duty. Not reserves. (don't kill the messenger... just going by what I've seen happen with applicants over the years).

WashU will make big scholarship offers to applicants with high MCATS. Gotta get the high MCAT folks away from the coasts and to St. Louis one way or another and money talks.
Would you provide any different advice as far as school list and/or competitiveness based on that? I apologize for the confusion, I thought you were aware of my situation, my fault it was not clear.
 
You are correct. You incur a commitment for HPSP and for residency, which you serve concurrently. Residency counts as time in service toward retirement but not toward commitment, as you said. The time in med school is IRR time and does not count toward TIS or retirement.

At USUHS, the time in med school is active duty but does not count toward TIS. However, it counts toward the multiplier when you do retire. So when you hit your 20 years, if you retire then it will be for 24 years.
While this was likely the situation for anyone who joined before fiscal year 2018, anyone who joined after that does not have access to the whole 20 year retirement scheme right? This is the start of a whole different thread so I don’t want to get into it too terribly much but aren’t people who joined after 2018 under the blended retirement program or TSP strictly? I just remember having the option of opting into TSP only as opposed to the 20 year system
 
While this was likely the situation for anyone who joined before fiscal year 2018, anyone who joined after that does not have access to the whole 20 year retirement scheme right? This is the start of a whole different thread so I don’t want to get into it too terribly much but aren’t people who joined after 2018 under the blended retirement program or TSP strictly? I just remember having the option of opting into TSP only as opposed to the 20 year system

It’s still true. The BRS (the new system) still has a pension. To get the pension you are still required to do 20 years, even under the BRS. So this still applies. The details are just different, and if you leave prior to 20 you can take your TSP with you (which has a matching program now up to 5%).
 
It’s still true. The BRS (the new system) still has a pension. To get the pension you are still required to do 20 years, even under the BRS. So this still applies. The details are just different, and if you leave prior to 20 you can take your TSP with you (which has a matching program now up to 5%).
Thank you for clarifying. Even after a few multi-hour briefings on the transition, all the details still never stuck in my head.

@ClamShell I hope your question was fully addressed.
 
Thank you for clarifying. Even after a few multi-hour briefings on the transition, all the details still never stuck in my head.

@ClamShell I hope your question was fully addressed.

There is an official page on the new system that has all the details and a calculator. It’s pretty easy to find if you Google.
 
There is an official page on the new system that has all the details and a calculator. It’s pretty easy to find if you Google.
Didn't know that the webpage for it was this extensive. I did not look in to it as I only planned on the 6 years in when the switch was made.

Blended Retirement

Not really related to the content of the post, but if anyone is thinking USHSU or HPSP then ^^^
 
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