How much above the averages?

[Gleevec]

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So I know that stats are sometimes overemphasized, but as I am just gearing up for the new application cycle I am trying to select a broad mix of schools with a good range of difficulty for me to get into.

I was wondering about how many points above the average MCAT and GPA for the particular school you have to be to raise your chances of getting in from that of the average applicant, to something more reasonable. By reasonable, I mean what most would consider a "good shot" of getting in. Im not saying by any means that stats are the whole picture, or that they will determine by themselves how good a chance you have of getting in (I know all schools are hard in this aspect), but Im just trying to create a preliminary list of schools to apply to.

Thanks!

 

[cabruen]

Gleevec, I understand your desire to ask this question, but you have been around SDN long enough to know the difficulty or near impossibilty of answering such a question. To have the slightest chance of answering that with anything but a vague qualitative statement, you would need a huge statistical database of applicants and schools. Something like.....well.....exactly like MDApplicants.com.

One of SDN's own, Xaelia has put together this marvelous resource and service to the pre-med committee. It deserves our support.

http://mdapplicants.com

 

[VienneseWaltz]

The MSAR (Medical School Admissions Requirements, from the AAMC) posts stats for schools that report them. Some schools list them on their Web sites. U.S. News & World Report reports stats for its top 50. Most people I know apply to three groups: very competitive (Yale, etc), competitive (Emory, etc), and in-state. Be aware that many private schools still give some preference to their states' applicants via funding agreements with state legislatures, although this preference will not be as strong as at a public school.

 

[Lady MD]

Hello Gleevec,

I'm surprised that you didn't get into any schools this year. From what I remembered, you have very good stats.

Did you only apply to Top 10 schools this year??

I wouldn't bother to over-calculate exactly how much above the average you should be. Just make sure when you reapply next year, that you include more lower-tiered schools and middle-tiered schools. I'm sure that you'll get in next year. 🙂

Originally posted by Gleevec
So I know that stats are sometimes overemphasized, but as I am just gearing up for the new application cycle I am trying to select a broad mix of schools with a good range of difficulty for me to get into.

I was wondering about how many points above the average MCAT and GPA for the particular school you have to be to raise your chances of getting in from that of the average applicant, to something more reasonable. By reasonable, I mean what most would consider a "good shot" of getting in. Im not saying by any means that stats are the whole picture, or that they will determine by themselves how good a chance you have of getting in (I know all schools are hard in this aspect), but Im just trying to create a preliminary list of schools to apply to.

Thanks!

 

[fava]

i don't think he's applied yet...
gleevec -- from your posts, you sound like a pretty bright guy, with good numbers and whatnot.
apply to some top-ten schools, some top-25, and then some "less competetive" ones, and i am sure you will do wonderfully.
good luck

 

[Gleevec]

Couple of things:

1. This will be my first application cycle coming up (I am a jr. in college right now)

2. It is very difficult with MDApplicants to see whether people got rejected flat-out or withdrew their application. Also there definitely seems to be an upward skewage in the representation of the population. Still a great site and one I did consult before posting.

3. I was in fact wondering based on actual PEOPLE's applicant experiences what they felt this range was, not some gargantuan statistical sample that apparently does not exist.

4. I am very willing to take vague qualitative statements/quantitative guesses. This was just for my information on a very few schools I was considering in order to ensure I was not applying to too many reach schools.

 

[Street Philosopher]

Gleevec, IIRC your MCAT was like 38. i assume your GPA is pretty high too. In your case, numbers will not keep you out. So looking at how much higher your numbers will be from the average will not help you at all. The most important things now are:

1. how you present yourself with your personal statement
2. your recommendation letters
3. the pattern of your extra curricular activities
4. how you present yourself with secondaries
5. how you present yourself during the interview.

It's all about presentation from here on out. Make your application interesting and compelling. Knowing that your numbers are great, focus on letting them know that you are more than just your scores. If you lack EC's, then get going. At the least, you will have ammunition in case you need to send updates later on in the application cycle.

If you take nothing else from my post, just take this: your numbers are good enough, and by good enough i don't mean you'll squeek by; they are great and no longer a factor to improve or worry about.

My personal opinion is that you will be reasonably safe applying to the top 30 schools. I would be shocked if you didn't have success with a few in the top 20 and and probably some in the top 10.

 

[THE instiGATOR]

http://www.premedguide.com/medfind.html

 

[Polar girl]

It seems like he knows how much his stats are above the school's averages, so that site wouldn't do any good. He wanted to know how much above he needed to be. Even if he didn't know, it would be pretty worthless. It told me I would be competitive at all the California schools. As a Missouri resident.

 

[Gleevec]

Originally posted by Polar girl
It seems like he knows how much his stats are above the school's averages, so that site wouldn't do any good. He wanted to know how much above he needed to be. Even if he didn't know, it would be pretty worthless. It told me I would be competitive at all the California schools. As a Missouri resident.

Polar Girl, actually Cali schools out of state are one of those groups of schools that got kicked out of my list because I have read about ppls difficulties on SDN and from my friends.

Instigator, thanks for the premedguide link, that is a pretty cool site to use along with mdapplicants.

And Street, thanks for the advice. I can definitely see what you mean about interviews being so important. Also I think your philosophy is really good about always taking great care in the next step. I wasnt worried about "improving my numbers" or anything, I was fine with that, I just didnt want to make the mistake of applying to too many reach schools.

Also, that Kobe dunk is so sick. Wasnt someone on SDN at the game. I forget, was it you Street? Either way, I could not believe it when I saw it. Great gif ya got there.

 

[Street Philosopher]

wouldn't worry about reach schools in your case, dude. your mcat is competitive everywhere. that of course doesn't mean you'll definitely get in at a top10, but numbers-wise, you're right up there with the top dogs. if anything, you should be concerned with applying to too many backup schools.

ps: i wasn't there in person. but dr. dodger dog was. 🙂

 

[fava]

seriously, if $ is not an issue, then apply to all the reach schools you want, as long as you balance with some safer ones.

 

[nero]

Originally posted by Street Philosopher
Gleevec, IIRC your MCAT was like 38. i assume your GPA is pretty high too. In your case, numbers will not keep you out. So looking at how much higher your numbers will be from the average will not help you at all. The most important things now are:

1. how you present yourself with your personal statement
2. your recommendation letters
3. the pattern of your extra curricular activities
4. how you present yourself with secondaries
5. how you present yourself during the interview.

It's all about presentation from here on out. Make your application interesting and compelling. Knowing that your numbers are great, focus on letting them know that you are more than just your scores. If you lack EC's, then get going. At the least, you will have ammunition in case you need to send updates later on in the application cycle.

If you take nothing else from my post, just take this: your numbers are good enough, and by good enough i don't mean you'll squeek by; they are great and no longer a factor to improve or worry about.

My personal opinion is that you will be reasonably safe applying to the top 30 schools. I would be shocked if you didn't have success with a few in the top 20 and and probably some in the top 10.

If these are your #s, then don't worry.....My #s are similar, and street is on the money........basically, at every interview i've been to, only one thing has been an issue, how i present myself.....i'm from a very low ranked school, but most of them didn't care, since my lors were awesome..........present yourself well, and your set......you'll get plenty of interviews with those #s and likely into a top 10 or15 school...........one more thing, apply to lots of schools in the 20-40 range.........i made a mistake of applying to schools in the top 13 and then schools in teh 40s.........lukily i got into one of the top schools......however, out of 12 schools who were 40 or worse, i got only like 3 interviews.........at two of them , they said that they didnt' think i would come there, so likely they would not waste an acceptance on me.......i thought this was harsh, i'm thinking, why invite me then?.........in teh end i found out that they had some formula or something stupid like that and dind't look at the files.........jus whatever the computer spits out............anyway, make sure you dont fall into the trap of "he's not likley to come"..........or the trap of "he's good, but not that good"................apply to a few low ranked but stay within the 20-40 range.........of course atleast 6 or 8 top schools
nero

 

[All-Star14]

Sounds like you've got things under control, Gleevec (in terms of GPA and MCAT). Just make sure you shine in your personal statement and interviews. I'm sure Dean Singer will give you an idea as to which schools you should apply; however, I've been advised to take her advice with a grain of salt (by current applicants).

 

[pillowhead]

not to discourage you, but it seems like some middle tier schools seem to actively reject people with with extremely high stats b/c they seem to think you won't go there. I got 13 interview offers out of 17 schools i applied to, but no love from Tufts or Boston even after writing letters of interest to them explaining my fiance is planning on doing a PhD in boston (that has since changed luckily). When i called boston, there attitude was basically, why would you go here when you know you'll get in somewhere else? i think this only applies to a very few schools, but it's something to take into account.

but if you have high stats, you will get plenty of interviews so long as your LORs aren't wacky. just get your application in super early and don't act like a jerk at your interviews.

 

[VienneseWaltz]

pillowhead is right. A friend who's about to graduate from Wash U got rejected post-secondary from Tulane and BU (she interviewed at Yale, Stanford, and Duke, too). I've interviewed at least 5 schools that are head-and-shoulders above Northwestern, but got dissed post-secondary all the same. Not every school has that attitude--in fact, I think most schools are willing to let you make that decision yourself--but you should concentrate on the schools where your peers will be.

 

[UCLA2000]

around 3 points in each to stand out. (if avg gpa =3.5 then 3.8, if avg mcat is 30 then 33)

but numbers alone won't do it for you. you have to have the extras to back it up as well.

 

[lattimer13]

you have to have a 50+ with higher than a Y on the writing sample of the MCAT. you also need a 4.834589901 cum GPA and a 5.674839998771 or higher sci GPA. if you don't meet this criteria, you shouldn't bother applying, but if you do, you should apply to at least 119 schools to give yourself a decent shot at getting into at least one school.

come on, you know that numbers are only part of the puzzle!

 

[Gleevec]

Originally posted by lattimer13
you have to have a 50+ with higher than a Y on the writing sample of the MCAT. you also need a 4.834589901 cum GPA and a 5.674839998771 or higher sci GPA. if you don't meet this criteria, you shouldn't bother applying, but if you do, you should apply to at least 119 schools to give yourself a decent shot at getting into at least one school.

come on, you know that numbers are only part of the puzzle!

Yes, I do know they are only part of the puzzle, which is why I stated it repeatedly in my original post... 🙄