How much "better" is MGH/BWH?

[Blaster1492]

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Hi all, hoping you can offer some insight to a 4th year med student going through the interview process...

Everyone mentions BWH and MGH as the center of the pathology training world. Having interviewed at both, I can see why and was certainly very impressed. Here's the thing though - my wife and I definitely want to end up in Chicago (her family is there, my family location is not an issue for me). I really liked University of Chicago's program when I interviewed there - kind faculty and residents, academic atmosphere, some big names, and emphasis on teaching. People speak highly of the program, including on this website, but I still get the sense that it is not quite on the same level as MGH/BWH.

My question is do you think I would be a stronger candidate for a job IN THE CHICAGOLAND AREA coming from UofC or MGH/BWH?

Based on their feedback, I think I have a pretty good chance of matching at the program I like the most. I am interested in academic medicine, but not basic science work (not sure yet what I would specialize in). I fully appreciate that its hard to compare programs and you have to choose the program that fits you best. All of these are wonderful programs and I would be lucky to train at any of them. But I'm just trying to get a sense of whether geography/connections are more important than the difference between "The Best" and "Awesome".

Your thoughts are appreciated, thanks!

 

[MetroPath]

Hi all, hoping you can offer some insight to a 4th year med student going through the interview process...

Everyone mentions BWH and MGH as the center of the pathology training world. Having interviewed at both, I can see why and was certainly very impressed. Here's the thing though - my wife and I definitely want to end up in Chicago (her family is there, my family location is not an issue for me). I really liked University of Chicago's program when I interviewed there - kind faculty and residents, academic atmosphere, some big names, and emphasis on teaching. People speak highly of the program, including on this website, but I still get the sense that it is not quite on the same level as MGH/BWH.

My question is do you think I would be a stronger candidate for a job IN THE CHICAGOLAND AREA coming from UofC or MGH/BWH?

Based on their feedback, I think I have a pretty good chance of matching at the program I like the most. I am interested in academic medicine, but not basic science work (not sure yet what I would specialize in). I fully appreciate that its hard to compare programs and you have to choose the program that fits you best. All of these are wonderful programs and I would be lucky to train at any of them. But I'm just trying to get a sense of whether geography/connections are more important than the difference between "The Best" and "Awesome".

Your thoughts are appreciated, thanks!

I would think U of C based on local connections. Not to say you cannot get a job from MGH. I have not heard good things about the job market in Chicago (this is from ppl that trained at U of C and personal msgs here on SDN, but no experience myself) though so being there for four years and establishing contacts, networking is a plus.

I know of an individual who finished two fellowships and got one interview in Chicago. So if you truly want to be in Chicago, go to U of C and start making friends in whatever institution from day one. I am not joking.

 

[hesperion]

Having trained in Chicago I would say do residency there if you want to stay in the city or general area.

 

[Tissue issue]

blaster1492- Given our tight job market it is imperative to do your training at the biggest name institution possible. An academic chairperson in Chicago who is hiring wants the best CV possible- good luck in Boston!

 

[hesperion]

I disagree. If blaster wants to stay in academics in Chicago and is interested in the UofC, there is no reason to not train there. He/she will make better connections as a resident over 4 years than as an outsider.

And as many people have stated, choosing a program should be more about where you fit than a place you think/perceive is better. Brigham, MGH, UofC ... come on ... they're all well known, excellent programs. Go to the place you like the most.

 

[pathstudent]

Isn't the chair of u of c from BWH?

Go to BWH if you want to. You only live once so take the opportunity to experience another of amerca's great cities. . You will easily get a job in the Chicago. Yes programs like to hire internal people but they also like to hire external people if they have good pedigree.

You can do anything from BWH. It is like going to kentucky if you are a blue chip basketball recruit.

And it is a win win for you. Either you get a great job in Chicago or you don't and then you don't have to live next door to your mother in law and sister in law.

Best of luck to you. This is probably the most exciting moment of our not very exciting lives.

 

[NuckingFuts]

Everyone mentions BWH and MGH as the center of the pathology training world.

Good luck in Boston- you'll love the culture, weather, food, diversity, people, academics, and the arts. 👍

 

[deleted314957]

Chicago

 

[Euchromatin]

Go to whichever program you feel most comfortable at and/or you think suits your learning style the best. You are going to be there for four years. All the options you listed are well known - I don't think there is much difference in prestige between them.

Also, keep in mind that most people end up applying for jobs during their fellowship year, so your fellowship institution will likely be more important in terms of both name recognition and geographic location than where you will actually be doing residency.

 

[gbwillner]

Go to whichever program you feel most comfortable at and/or you think suits your learning style the best. You are going to be there for four years. All the options you listed are well known - I don't think there is much difference in prestige between them.

Also, keep in mind that most people end up applying for jobs during their fellowship year, so your fellowship institution will likely be more important in terms of both name recognition and geographic location than where you will actually be doing residency.

THIS

This is good advice, listen to it. MGH/BWH are great, but all programs have pros and cons. Make sure those align with your interests. Making local connections in Chicago will trump the Harvard name in private practice, IMHO. Training at a program you want to work in as faculty is a double-edged sword. You may make friends/enemies along the way- you may be seen as an indispensable asset or an average pathologist not worth keeping. You will also likely be taken for granted when negotiating a contract.

 

[2121115]

Training at a program you want to work in as faculty is a double-edged sword. You may make friends/enemies along the way- you may be seen as an indispensable asset or an average pathologist not worth keeping. You will also likely be taken for granted when negotiating a contract.

^^^ This ^^^

There is more to lose than to gain. But if you are coming from BWH/MGH to anywhere else, they will likely assume you are the best pathologist ever and you will have the upper hand.

 

[caffeinegirl]

As an MGH alum, I would recommend going to the program that is best suited for YOU. From your post, it sounds like Chicago. If you want to stay in Chicago, then go to UofC and establish a network early...tell everybody there you want to stay, etc. Going to another program out of the city and then trying to get into a tough geographic market (which it sounds like it may be from the prior posts in this thread) is challenging...but not impossible (based on my personal experience). But if you feel the most comfortable at UofC go there rather than going to any other program because you think it's "prestigious." You'll be happier in the long run!

 

[Blaster1492]

Thanks to everyone for really helpful and reasonable responses. Sounds like its about 50-50.

Just to clarify, I don't like MGH and BWH just for the names, I really like the programs and could see myself being happy there. I also feel that way about Chicago, as I described in my original post. It really comes down to how it plays out for my future. I see the point about the disadvantages to trying to get a job at the same institution in which you trained. I'm not set on trying to get a job at UofC, per se, just somewhere in the Chicagoland area.

Pathstudent - excellent point about moving near mother in-law. How's the residency training in Alaska?

 

[malchik]

If your goal is a faculty job at a Chicago institution, you are best served going to U of C. But you need to make sure that you are well liked there by the people that matter. You would out-compete the BWH/MGH grad in a local job recruitment, and you might even get them to create a position for you that the BWH/MGH grad would never even know to apply for.

 

[caffeinegirl]

If your goal is a faculty job at a Chicago institution, you are best served going to U of C. But you need to make sure that you are well liked there by the people that matter. You would out-compete the BWH/MGH grad in a local job recruitment, and you might even get them to create a position for you that the BWH/MGH grad would never even know to apply for.

Completely agree with malchik

 

[yaah]

In my experience, the quality of the training program and how it reflects on an applicant's candidacy for a job is almost entirely related to the quality of the candidate him/herself.

In other words, when you are comparing good programs it really doesn't matter because other factors are going to be more important - most specifically your goals, motivations, work ethic, and personal skills.

You need to pick the program that will allow you to excel the most and where you will be happy and productive. It is more important to consider that than to weight "potential impact on the location of my job six years from now" as a key factor.

 

[lipomas]

Everyone mentions BWH and MGH as the center of the pathology training world. !

Um, no, they don't. Except maybe for people in those training programs.

Lots of people talk about them being good training programs. But there are lots of good training programs. Find one that fits your career goals and lifestyle, investigate stuff, ask lots of questions, in other words find the program for you. You aren't going to get anything special by training there if it isn't for you.

 

[LIT2012]

Recently, 2 people who did residency at U of Chicago, went to MGH for a year of fellowship, have been hired back to U of Chicago as attending. And they were not even the top residents from this program, I heard.

Hi all, hoping you can offer some insight to a 4th year med student going through the interview process...

Everyone mentions BWH and MGH as the center of the pathology training world. Having interviewed at both, I can see why and was certainly very impressed. Here's the thing though - my wife and I definitely want to end up in Chicago (her family is there, my family location is not an issue for me). I really liked University of Chicago's program when I interviewed there - kind faculty and residents, academic atmosphere, some big names, and emphasis on teaching. People speak highly of the program, including on this website, but I still get the sense that it is not quite on the same level as MGH/BWH.

My question is do you think I would be a stronger candidate for a job IN THE CHICAGOLAND AREA coming from UofC or MGH/BWH?

Based on their feedback, I think I have a pretty good chance of matching at the program I like the most. I am interested in academic medicine, but not basic science work (not sure yet what I would specialize in). I fully appreciate that its hard to compare programs and you have to choose the program that fits you best. All of these are wonderful programs and I would be lucky to train at any of them. But I'm just trying to get a sense of whether geography/connections are more important than the difference between "The Best" and "Awesome".

Your thoughts are appreciated, thanks!

 

[LADoc00]

When did MGH and BWH start getting lumped together?? I think BIDMC has more in common with BWH as its literally across the street...

They are VERY different programs with different applicant pools and different career paths.

I did not even apply to MGH personally, its not for everyone.

there was a poster here that PM'd me who was the chief resident at some Chicago program (maybe NW?) but in the end he stated it wasnt great place to train. That was 5 years ago, take from that what you will.

I would (as in personal preference) rank BWH no1. Also take from that what you will.