How much can a high MCAT offset a low GPA for an ORM prospective MD?

[907914]

---

Members don't see this ad.

I didn't quite say that.

I just said that being a hospital wayfarer or hospital receptionist, even if those posts sometimes involve face to face contact with a patient, are weak sauce as clinical experience because they're not closely tied enough to the patient receiving medical care.

There are definitely different tiers of clinical exposure as far as ECs go. Nurse > Cardiopulmonary/Medical Assistant > phlebotomist/X-ray tech > EMT > scribe > helping patients in the ED > Shadowing by itself > nothing

 

[mmchick]

Not to be considered would be a very low metric on the app, gpa,mcat, no ECs or volunteering, IAs, etc. Most school will screen for these. A level of concern develops when one metric does not correlate with the others., i.e. 3.9 GPA and 501 mcat.
I think the answer to your question is straightforward, people in the 10- 25%tile for our metrics usually don't get an invitation to interview.

Have not even the slightest clue for which school you represent, but AAMC statistics might conflict this generalized statement regarding those in only <25%tile GPA or MCAT positions. https://www.aamc.org/download/321508/data/factstablea23.pdf

Those with 514+ MCATs and GPAs 3.0-3.6 range from 42-71% acceptance rates. Or 31-64% for those with GPA >3.6, but MCAT 498-509. Now, certainly a chance <50% is concerning.. but a 50% acceptance rate of those within a single merit that fits 10-25%tile wouldn't suggest the same dismal view of [usually not getting an invitation to interview].

I think SDN is a source that typically leans more pessimistic. I would hedge that a single weakness met with considerable strengths is part of life in general and certainly a pre-med app that could have a chance when applied strategically. Just my 2 cents.

 

[mmchick]

There are definitely different tiers of clinical exposure as far as ECs go. Nurse > Cardiopulmonary > scribe > phlebotomist/X-ray tech > EMT > helping patients in the ED > Shadowing by itself > nothing

Sorry, how does a scribe beat out both a phlebotomist and EMT that both have hands-on clinical roles? 😆

 

[907914]

Sorry, how does a scribe beat out both a phlebotomist and EMT that both have hands-on clinical roles? 😆

It doesn't, thanks for the correction! Fixed. And this is just my "I am a premed who doesn't know what he is talking about" ranking.

 

[ElloMellowYellow]

Ugh. Why do these conversations always have to come down to... good v. better v. best v. Harvard?

 

[Angus Avagadro]

Have not even the slightest clue for which school you represent, but AAMC statistics might conflict this generalized statement regarding those in only <25%tile GPA or MCAT positions. https://www.aamc.org/download/321508/data/factstablea23.pdf

Those with 514+ MCATs and GPAs 3.0-3.6 range from 42-71% acceptance rates. Or 31-64% for those with GPA >3.6, but MCAT 498-509. Now, certainly a chance <50% is concerning.. but a 50% acceptance rate of those within a single merit that fits 10-25%tile wouldn't suggest the same dismal view of [usually not getting an invitation to interview].

I think SDN is a source that typically leans more pessimistic. I would hedge that a single weakness met with considerable strengths is part of life in general and certainly a pre-med app that could have a chance when applied strategically. Just my 2 cents.

I believe you are missing some important information in this chart.

Applicants with a 3.0 to 3.19 GPA with a 514 MCAT,(low GPA and High MCAT), represents 0.26% of all 95,000 applicants, so very small "N". 245 students applied and 103 received acceptance for 42% acceptance rate according to the chart. My example of 501 MCAT and 3.9 GPA, (low MCAT with High GPA), shows 2,141 applicants with these stats,( 0.7% of all 95,000 applicants), with 668 accepted for a 31% acceptance according to the chart. I believe this reinforces my assertion. If you look in the 3.4 to 3.59 GPA and 501 MCAT you will see that they have a dismal acceptance rate of 19%. Applicants in the lower percentile have a much lower admission rate than students from the higher percentiles. Also, a low metric quite likely will get screened out by many schools with MCAT and GPA requirements. Is it possible to get accepted with a single low metric? Clearly according to the chart. Is it likely, no according to the chart. Usually, people in these categories have some exceptional life experiences or overcame great obstacles.

 

[Goro]

I believe you are missing some important information in this chart.

Applicants with a 3.0 to 3.19 GPA with a 514 MCAT,(low GPA and High MCAT), represents 0.26% of all 95,000 applicants, so very small "N". 245 students applied and 103 received acceptance for 42% acceptance rate according to the chart. My example of 501 MCAT and 3.9 GPA, (low MCAT with High GPA), shows 2,141 applicants with these stats,( 0.7% of all 95,000 applicants), with 668 accepted for a 31% acceptance according to the chart. I believe this reinforces my assertion. If you look in the 3.4 to 3.59 GPA and 501 MCAT you will see that they have a dismal acceptance rate of 19%. Applicants in the lower percentile have a much lower admission rate than students from the higher percentiles. Also, a low metric quite likely will get screened out by many schools with MCAT and GPA requirements. Is it possible to get accepted with a single low metric? Clearly according to the chart. Is it likely, no according to the chart. Usually, people in these categories have some exceptional life experiences or overcame great obstacles.

People like these may also have been accepted via an SMP or post-bac, where the high GPA from the program will do little to raise the cGPA, but yet still show that the candidate can handle med school.

In addition, as cited above, the AAMC has data from multiple MD and DO schools showing that the greater the discrepancy between MCAT and GPA, the less likely it is for someone to be accepted.

Lastly, the overall grid can be deceiving. the data doesn't reflect skewing by people who live in lucky states or who fulfill school-specific missions. It does NOPT apply across the board among 150ish MD schools.

 

[993444]

At my school, the Dean likes high MCATs. We're not alone in this regard.

Is this more common in the DO world?

 

[Goro]

Is this more common in the DO world?

Tell it to the likes of NYU/WashU class schools.

 

[mmchick]

I believe you are missing some important information in this chart.

Usually, people in these categories have some exceptional life experiences or overcame great obstacles.

People like these may also have been accepted via an SMP or post-bac, where the high GPA from the program will do little to raise the cGPA, but yet still show that the candidate can handle med school.

Lastly, the overall grid can be deceiving. the data doesn't reflect skewing by people who live in lucky states or who fulfill school-specific missions. It does NOPT apply across the board among 150ish MD schools.

I certainly would agree that a chart simply based on GPA and MCAT acceptance rates is inherently missing the many other aspects of candidacy that schools prioritize aside from these metrics, that is an obvious caveat. What I'm suggesting is that, though an extreme split candidate (3.0 GPA and 514 MCAT) only makes up 0.26% of the applicant pool.. well, within their cohort, they still have a fighting 42% chance of acceptance based on those merits alone despite definitely being <25%tile. Now given that that type of applicant is a rather extreme example given the, yes very small N, my logic was more so based on a reasonable cohort of, say, 3.3-3.6 GPAs that are considered slightly below average but not entirely dismal like a 3.0 GPA; this paired with a high MCAT 514+ brings that to 62%+ acceptance rate and climbing. My point is to consider these threshold-low GPA or MCAT metrics when paired with a compensatory counterpart score.. their N is much higher to a comparable degree like their more advantaged counterparts (at about ~2-4% of applicant pool per cohort) and there's something that tells me 500-1500 applicants per "score cohort" are not Olympic athletes that solved world peace as UN ambassadors. It tells me that run-of-the-mill applicants with a slightly below average metric <25%tile paired with a high compensatory stat have a decent chance at getting an acceptance - granted, the rest of their candidacy is strong, strategic, and well-rounded.

I wouldn't disagree that likely the people getting by with these coin-toss metrics had some extra run-up like an SMP or post-bacc backdoor entry or fulfillment of a school mission.. but to paint the picture as if you must unequivocally have >25%ile stats to have more of a shot than [usually no interview] is a bit misleading. Nonetheless, this has been an interesting discourse.

 

[Lucca]

3.6 GPA isn't that low. Score a 510+ and you have a solid shot at MD. Score a 515+ and you'll have a pretty good shot at MD. Score 520+ and maybe nobody even reads your GPA. This is all provided the rest of your app is in order. High MCAT/lower GPA >>>> high GPA / low MCAT.

 

[Goro]

I certainly would agree that a chart simply based on GPA and MCAT acceptance rates is inherently missing the many other aspects of candidacy that schools prioritize aside from these metrics, that is an obvious caveat. What I'm suggesting is that, though an extreme split candidate (3.0 GPA and 514 MCAT) only makes up 0.26% of the applicant pool.. well, within their cohort, they still have a fighting 42% chance of acceptance based on those merits alone despite definitely being <25%tile. Now given that that type of applicant is a rather extreme example given the, yes very small N, my logic was more so based on a reasonable cohort of, say, 3.3-3.6 GPAs that are considered slightly below average but not entirely dismal like a 3.0 GPA; this paired with a high MCAT 514+ brings that to 62%+ acceptance rate and climbing. My point is to consider these threshold-low GPA or MCAT metrics when paired with a compensatory counterpart score.. their N is much higher to a comparable degree like their more advantaged counterparts (at about ~2-4% of applicant pool per cohort) and there's something that tells me 500-1500 applicants per "score cohort" are not Olympic athletes that solved world peace as UN ambassadors. It tells me that run-of-the-mill applicants with a slightly below average metric <25%tile paired with a high compensatory stat have a decent chance at getting an acceptance - granted, the rest of their candidacy is strong, strategic, and well-rounded.

I wouldn't disagree that likely the people getting by with these coin-toss metrics had some extra run-up like an SMP or post-bacc backdoor entry or fulfillment of a school mission.. but to paint the picture as if you must unequivocally have >25%ile stats to have more of a shot than [usually no interview] is a bit misleading. Nonetheless, this has been an interesting discourse.

Tell you what. Apply with those stat and tell us how it works out for you.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

People like these may also have been accepted via an SMP or post-bac, where the high GPA from the program will do little to raise the cGPA, but yet still show that the candidate can handle med school.

In addition, as cited above, the AAMC has data from multiple MD and DO schools showing that the greater the discrepancy between MCAT and GPA, the less likely it is for someone to be accepted.

Lastly, the overall grid can be deceiving. the data doesn't reflect skewing by people who live in lucky states or who fulfill school-specific missions. It does NOPT apply across the board among 150ish MD schools.

Very good points!

 

[mmchick]

Tell you what. Apply with those stat and tell us how it works out for you.

Not sure why these discussions always have be made personal, this was supposed to be an impartial view of anecdotal vs statistical evidence. But alas is the strategy to corner pre-meds into feelings of inadequacy for the sake of making a point.

 

[Goro]

Not sure why these discussions always have be made personal, this was supposed to be an impartial view of anecdotal vs statistical evidence. But alas is the strategy to corner pre-meds into feelings of inadequacy for the sake of making a point.

We're hear to give realistic advice, not hugs and kisses.

 

[djsbaseball2014]

If it helps, I have a 3.67 cGPA and a 2 year streak of consistently around 3.2-3.4, but my MCAT is a 521 and you can’t have a stronger upward trend. Have not had a single negative statement about the app. Weird statements, but nothing negative.

So to directly address you question, I would say as long as your gpa is >3.5, if your MCAT is sufficiently elevated then no one will care.

How can you know the receptiveness of your application if you are just now applying? Get accepted into a US MD school and then come say it had no effect, this process is way too random so finish your app cycle first before you start making claims that have no weight.

 

[907914]

How can you know the receptiveness of your application if you are just now applying? Get accepted into a US MD school and then come say it had no effect, this process is way too random so finish your app cycle first before you start making claims that have no weight.

If you frequent the forums sufficiently then you will find that I tend to make claims based solely on the feedback provided by the ADCOMs, physicians, and MED students of SDN. That post was based on assessments of my app by a very large number of the ADCOM members on here and does not necessarily reflect my own perspectives of my competitiveness (still get hung up on the low-ish cGPA and a stupid IA....). You are correct in that it is mostly baseless and unverified as of yet because I am merely an applicant and there is always a statistical likelihood I do not have successful application, which I am aware of and have contingency plans for. However, I feel confident in reflecting the opinions of more knowledgeable and more respected individuals than myself.

 

[MyOdyssey]

If it helps, I have a 3.67 cGPA and a 2 year streak of consistently around 3.2-3.4, but my MCAT is a 521 and you can’t have a stronger upward trend. Have not had a single negative statement about the app. Weird statements, but nothing negative.

So to directly address you question, I would say as long as your gpa is >3.5, if your MCAT is sufficiently elevated then no one will care.

Schools you apply to don't have to give you verbal negative feedback on your application or any other aspect of your application.

They can simply ghost you, or not invite you for an interview either before or after receiving your secondary application.

Even if you are wildly successful, and I believe you will receive one or more acceptances, there may be other things in your application that compensate for any perceived deficiencies in your GPA, such as for example your meritorious military service. I have seen at least one ad com on here post that military service is equivalent to 3-5 points on the MCAT. Given your military service, your 521 MCAT would translate to a 524-526 MCAT. How many applicants out there have that going for them?