R
Reborn24
on the open market?
How much can a person with a masters/PH.D. in biomedical engineering make?
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engineers make a lot...
they are really the only people that make stuff 😀
i would not worry about income, esp if you are planning on getting an MD as well. i know you said MS/Phd, but since you are on the pre-allo forum i am just guessing you are premed too.
MD's make money, and the more degrees/training you got, the better off you are granted you utilize it well.
but anyways, here is what you probably want to hear: 6-7 fig income.
they are really the only people that make stuff 😀
i would not worry about income, esp if you are planning on getting an MD as well. i know you said MS/Phd, but since you are on the pre-allo forum i am just guessing you are premed too.
MD's make money, and the more degrees/training you got, the better off you are granted you utilize it well.
but anyways, here is what you probably want to hear: 6-7 fig income.
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It all depends on the job you take, really. Engineers (as in all types of engineers, not just biomed types) with a bachelors degree tend to start out between 48K-60K per year, usually with the potential to get in the 80K-120K range within 10 years or so. I'm not gonna run the numbers but this probably actually comes out better than the typical family practice doc or pediatrician with med school loans and a 7 year delay in income. Many engineers wind up going into management as well, so their incomes could bump up higher depending on how well the company reimburses their management. I'm not sure what the premium on MS/Ph.D is, my guess would be add 10K on average for the MS and 20K for the Ph.D, but that REALLY depends on where you go to work and whether they even value the extra education. Some places won't. As a disclosure, the average starting salary for a bachelors I know to be accurate, the rest is anecdotal, so don't flame too hard if you know otherwise 🙂 Either way, 6 figures is attainable as an engineer, 7 isn't unless you become a CEO (lots of CEOs are engineers, but most engineers aren't CEOs :-D) Of course if you own PATENTS on your designs, that's another story.. if they're valuable patents of course you could make boatloads.
Engineering is a fun field if you like analytical thinking, creativity, and a broad science base. I highly recommend!
Engineering is a fun field if you like analytical thinking, creativity, and a broad science base. I highly recommend!
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The numbers said before seem to be about right. I have seen offers for biomed eng at 40-50k with a BS in industrial settings, MS usually gets you 10k more. In a large corporation, after a time you'll work more into management, where the pay increases again.
To go into an academic setting, you usually need a MS to begin with and the pay is less than in industry. Academic facilities, prestidge (sp?), and the ability to publish can offset this pay cut. PhDs are required for the top academic jobs and some top R&D jobs. These can get to 6 figures, but these take awhile to get into and are more rare.
Getting advanced degrees w/the MD helps mainly in two areas, both related to academics: getting top residencies and getting grants. The things that distinguish the most competititve residencies from the rest is generally not the quality of clinical experience (which is superb), but the availablitity of research dollars and projects. These residencies are geared for physician-scientists who will later go into academic research. Once there, granting agencies favor the more "degreed" applicants, reasoning that they are the best equipped to carry out a given project. This makes getting the project $$$ easier.
To go into an academic setting, you usually need a MS to begin with and the pay is less than in industry. Academic facilities, prestidge (sp?), and the ability to publish can offset this pay cut. PhDs are required for the top academic jobs and some top R&D jobs. These can get to 6 figures, but these take awhile to get into and are more rare.
Getting advanced degrees w/the MD helps mainly in two areas, both related to academics: getting top residencies and getting grants. The things that distinguish the most competititve residencies from the rest is generally not the quality of clinical experience (which is superb), but the availablitity of research dollars and projects. These residencies are geared for physician-scientists who will later go into academic research. Once there, granting agencies favor the more "degreed" applicants, reasoning that they are the best equipped to carry out a given project. This makes getting the project $$$ easier.
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But remember that engineers (even those who make it into management) can get laid off anytime! So the salaries are meaningless by themselves, unless you factor in job stability. As you get older and get more experience in one area, it can actually work against you. I don't think this is the case in medicine, unless one is totally incompetent.
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Good point...it's all about staying marketable in the eyes of your customer (or employer). Actually though, a very similar phenomenon occurs in medicine: New technologies and procedures are coming out every day, and a physician (just like anyone else who provides a service) must stay abreast of the cutting-edge in his field in order to stay marketable to his patients. After all, nobody is going to get a classical CT surgeon (even though they might be incredibly talented) to do a procedure that they can now get done laproscopically.uvce said:
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Weirdoc said:
In the Bay Area, with a PhD in Biomedical Engineering you'll command 85K - 115K ** starting ** salary at some of the big pharma/biotech companies like Amgen, Genentech, Chiron.
With more experience it can get much higher. I would not be surprised if an experienced engineer with 10 years experience make 140K. Plus you'll have options worth tens of thousands of dollars.
I have friends who hold specific jobs at some of those companies above with those kinds of degrees.
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BerkeleyMD said:
7 figure income is unrealistic for a MS/PhD in Biomedical Engineering. You might have a total compensation package worth hundreds of thousands of dollars if you start at a startup company however.
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Another thing you have to consider is that there just aren't a lot of jobs out there. If you go this route you must be prepared to move if necessary. Although we hear constantly about the big, booming Biomedical field...recent grads just aren't seeing it. You will be competing against hundreds of people for a single position. This does not put you in a good place as far as negotiations because there will be someone with better qualifications willing to work for less than you. I have heard that it is easier to get hired on the East coast, but then you need an inflated salary just to keep up with living expenses.
A bigger issue is that many companies would rather hire an ME, ChE, EE rather than a BioE. It is far easier to train the engineer in the biology than to train the bio person in the programming or whatnot that is needed. So, in some cases, the Biomed. Eng person has to first justify their degree and then point out how and why they are good for the position. This is assuming they get to an interview. This problem is slowly going away as BMEs are becoming more and more recognized as a useful and pertinent degree. It is something to keep in mind particularly if you want to live in the midwest where it just seems like no one wants to consider anything or anyone outside their comfort zone.
Undergrad pay is as listed above. The benefits of the advanced degrees are very slight. In some cases, the advanced degree is a hindrance, as a company can hire someone with a BS for less money. Unfortunately, I have a lot of friends going through this right now. It would be far wiser to earn MS/PhD while employed with an engineering firm than to go right into grad school after your BS. The differences in pay for a person with an MS or PhD will vary dramatically based on their location and field. Here, (Ohio) 70-80 is typical with a MS or PhD in engineering with several years of experience. There is the odd duck who is making 6 figures but this comes with 10+ years experience and is never guaranteed. Industry will pay higher than academia but will require more hours and the possiblility of lay-offs at any time. Academia may pay less, but can frequently mean less hours and with tenure, 100% job security. Of course, tenure is not so simple...
Why do you ask?
A bigger issue is that many companies would rather hire an ME, ChE, EE rather than a BioE. It is far easier to train the engineer in the biology than to train the bio person in the programming or whatnot that is needed. So, in some cases, the Biomed. Eng person has to first justify their degree and then point out how and why they are good for the position. This is assuming they get to an interview. This problem is slowly going away as BMEs are becoming more and more recognized as a useful and pertinent degree. It is something to keep in mind particularly if you want to live in the midwest where it just seems like no one wants to consider anything or anyone outside their comfort zone.
Undergrad pay is as listed above. The benefits of the advanced degrees are very slight. In some cases, the advanced degree is a hindrance, as a company can hire someone with a BS for less money. Unfortunately, I have a lot of friends going through this right now. It would be far wiser to earn MS/PhD while employed with an engineering firm than to go right into grad school after your BS. The differences in pay for a person with an MS or PhD will vary dramatically based on their location and field. Here, (Ohio) 70-80 is typical with a MS or PhD in engineering with several years of experience. There is the odd duck who is making 6 figures but this comes with 10+ years experience and is never guaranteed. Industry will pay higher than academia but will require more hours and the possiblility of lay-offs at any time. Academia may pay less, but can frequently mean less hours and with tenure, 100% job security. Of course, tenure is not so simple...
Why do you ask?
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Just so the previous post doesn't scare everyone too much, it IS possible to have a much nicer experience going into the biomedical engineering industry (not to say that the previous poster's experiences aren't possible as well - they are): I only had to apply to one job and got a 60k offer out of it. Work is literally a block from where I've lived the last four years so relocation certainly wasn't an issue. Also, my employer is as traditional engineering as it gets (SAIC), and yet they were thrilled to have the breadth of knowledge that a BioE guy brings to the table. In fact, I'd say that it's been easier for me to come up to speed on the programming/computational side of my job than it has been for some of the EE/math/CS guys to get up to speed on the biological aspects of it.
Anyway, just another perspective I thought I'd add. 👍
Anyway, just another perspective I thought I'd add. 👍
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not true boeing is a bunch of cheapos with starting pay of 40k...also, i know of a friend who worked for boeing 20 yrs and hes just makin 90k...this guy was a level 4 engineer too (there are 6 levels with 5 and 6 being tech levels--u usually get promoted to those if you invent/patent something)...oh and hes a mangerial engineer...so if you wanna make money as an engineer work for contracters!!! you can make like 170k/yr no joke!!Bluntman said:
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MedicineNutt said:
Contracting does make more money, but it is deceptive. You don't have benefits, you don't have a guarantee of a job, you have to find work. You don't have health insurance either. You have to pay a self-employment tax. There are benefits to being a contractor/consultant, but you have to be able to stomach the idea of not having a stable job and living from contract to contract.
Contractors often spend 1/4 to 1/3 of their time finding work. So many contractors are not billable 100% of the time. Most (software) engineers have billing rates in excess of $100/hour because they will only be able to make money for 8 months of the year. The other 4 months are spent finding work.
For what it's worth, an hourly rate can very accurately be converted into an equivalent yearly salary. Just double the rate and x 1000. $10/hour = $20K/year. $100/hour = $200K/year.
For the example above, $100/hour but only billable 2/3 of the time would result in about $133K/year.
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right on^^ forgot to mention that, but it's still a deceptive number lol
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hoberto said:
I agree. As a recent biomed engineering grad (2005) I know firsthand that it is tough to find jobs with a bachelors in biomed. Most companies are looking for someone with a MS or PHD. Many of my friends who I grad. with ended up in pharmaceuticals doing either process engineering or work as a lab rat something they could do getting a degree in chemistry or biology.
And I live on the east coast, so it isnt that easy out here either to find these jobs.
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lmao my bad...kinda misread what you had there!!Bluntman said:
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just saw this earlier in the week:
-Median for MS in Biomed engineering is around $80k.
-PhD market for BME's is a little bit flooded right now, so i would say salary isnt is as high as it could be.
-Of course this all depends on experience/area of specialization/region/overall attractiveness. If you want to up that number, look into some business classes which will get you into the corporate side of things where the real money is.
-Median for MS in Biomed engineering is around $80k.
-PhD market for BME's is a little bit flooded right now, so i would say salary isnt is as high as it could be.
-Of course this all depends on experience/area of specialization/region/overall attractiveness. If you want to up that number, look into some business classes which will get you into the corporate side of things where the real money is.
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My cousin actually did that!...def not a bioeng tho. 🙄 If you've got the time/effort to blow on the trip and don't mind waiting awhile for the car to ship over here, isn't it actually supposed to be cheaper to buy BMWs that way?2ndChrm said:
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I got this off of usnews:
Biomedical Engineer III 25th%ile Median 75th%ile
Chicago, IL $63,277 $70,620 $77,126
thats for a bachelors with 4-6 years experience. They didnt give an option for PhD though. Maybe you can find it if you look harder. Check this address, it lets you choose from thousands of careers and enter the location where you plan to work. They also have info on specific medical specialties and their salary, so that might be useful to everyone else on here.
http://usnews.salary.com/salarywizard/layoutscripts/swzl_newsearch.asp
Biomedical Engineer III 25th%ile Median 75th%ile
Chicago, IL $63,277 $70,620 $77,126
thats for a bachelors with 4-6 years experience. They didnt give an option for PhD though. Maybe you can find it if you look harder. Check this address, it lets you choose from thousands of careers and enter the location where you plan to work. They also have info on specific medical specialties and their salary, so that might be useful to everyone else on here.
http://usnews.salary.com/salarywizard/layoutscripts/swzl_newsearch.asp
