How much do ECs matter relative to GPA/MCAT? What about top schools?

[artvandelay786]

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If I have solid stats, how badly would these ECs hold me back in admissions to a top school?

2 years volunteering in a lab
~100 volunteer hours
~30 shadowing hours
Marathon training each year
Social organization on campus
Officer for health related organization.

Really want to apply to Brown, Duke, etc., but worried that my ECs are holding me back. Ie., don't have 1000 hours volunteering and shadowing, publications, paid research job/ta position.

Any insight?

 

[Dbate]

If I have solid stats, how badly would these ECs hold me back in admissions to a top school?

2 years volunteering in a lab
~100 volunteer hours
~30 shadowing hours
Marathon training each year
Social organization on campus
Officer for health related organization.

Really want to apply to Brown, Duke, etc., but worried that my ECs are holding me back. Ie., don't have 1000 hours volunteering and shadowing, publications, paid research job/ta position.

Any insight?

They seem like the same general ECs everyone else has. Except for the marathon running. I know a few people who have completed marathons and I personally think it is very impressive.

This is just my opinion, but I think that is the most unique thing about your application and will probably help you standout from others.


Keep in mind that pretty much everyone has the same ECs, so your ECs won't differentiate you too much.

 

[OCDOCDOCD]

Hours don't mean much; even a petri dish of e.coli can put in thousands of hours in a lab. What matters to top schools is what you've done in your ECs. They want to see exceptional achievement inside and outside the classroom. They also want you to be "interesting" in some way. You need to have passions outside of academia.

Unless you've done something impressive in your ECs, I'd say you don't have a chance at top schools.

 

[dahassa]

If I have solid stats, how badly would these ECs hold me back in admissions to a top school?

2 years volunteering in a lab
~100 volunteer hours
~30 shadowing hours
Marathon training each year
Social organization on campus
Officer for health related organization.

Really want to apply to Brown, Duke, etc., but worried that my ECs are holding me back. Ie., don't have 1000 hours volunteering and shadowing, publications, paid research job/ta position.

Any insight?

As stated above, hours don't matter as much as what you actually did during your EC. Having said that, your EC are pretty standard. So I don't think they hurt you. EC matter the most at the top schools, because all the applicants generally have solid stats so EC can be the differentiating factor.

 

[Cardiothoracic]

So what kind of extracurricular activities would impress schools like UCSF, Harvard, John Hopkins, Columbia, etc..? I used to think that a 3.8 gpa and a 36+ mcat would be enough to get in

 

[scarlett14]

So what kind of extracurricular activities would impress schools like UCSF, Harvard, John Hopkins, Columbia, etc..? I used to think that a 3.8 gpa and a 36+ mcat would be enough to get in

def not true...i know plenty of ppl who applied this past cycle with those stats or even better and didnt get in cause they didnt really have anything all that special or unique about them or their experiences. doing typical premed extracurrics is the best way to blend in with the rest of the applicant pool...youre better off doing activities and things you actually care about instead of what you "should" be doing to "impress" them...

 

[Cardiothoracic]

def not true...i know plenty of ppl who applied this past cycle with those stats or even better and didnt get in cause they didnt really have anything all that special or unique about them or their experiences. doing typical premed extracurrics is the best way to blend in with the rest of the applicant pool...youre better off doing activities and things you actually care about instead of what you "should" be doing to "impress" them...

I agree, but I don't know what those activities could be.

 

[TexasSurgeon]

I agree, but I don't know what those activities could be.

I would presume getting something like a publication would be a good way to stand out

 

[dahassa]

I agree, but I don't know what those activities could be.

Well, from my experiences during second look and from analyzing the results of my friends, I would say there isn't a formula for getting into schools like Harvard, Columbia, ect. But a lot of the people I met fell into 1 of 3 groups.

1- people with average stats for top schools (3.8/36) and a unique factor-Rhode Scholar, Concert Pianist, Professional Chinese ballet dancer, Former Lawyer/top Law schools grad, ect (no joke I met all of these people during second look).

2- people with above average stats for top schools- 4.0/40+ MCAT/ lots of research/Multiple publications (the kdizzle and wangers of the world)

3- people with average stats for top schools (3.8/36) with something that stands out. The majority of people I met fell into this group. They had a cool personal narrative or a unique interest or something that made them slightly different. For example: (again ppl I met)

White girl with average stats from an upper middle class background, but became passionate about healthcare issue in Kenya. Ended up majoring in African studies, learning said language, doing her research on healthcare issues in Kenya, took a year off to work in Kenya with red cross.

Black guy from disadvantaged background. First in his family to go to college. Has average stats for top school.

White guy from disadvantaged/rural background. Wants to go into primary care/rural medicine. Has tons of EC devoted to this future dream.

URM with average stats for top schools + went to Yale for UG + good but typical EC

Non-URM with average stats for top schools + tons of research + 2-3 publications

I think a part of it is getting involved in things you are passionate in and whatever drives you to become a doctor. The other part is making this narrative clear in your application and marketing yourself well.

 

[Dbate]

Well, from my experiences during second look and from analyzing the results of my friends, I would say there isn't a formula for getting into schools like Harvard, Columbia, ect. But a lot of the people I met fell into 1 of 3 groups.

1- people with average stats for top schools (3.8/36) and a unique factor-Rhode Scholar, Concert Pianist, Professional Chinese ballet dancer, Former Lawyer/top Law schools grad, ect (no joke I met all of these people during second look).

2- people with above average stats for top schools- 4.0/40+ MCAT/ lots of research/Multiple publications (the kdizzle and wangers of the world)

3- people with average stats for top schools (3.8/36) with something that stands out. The majority of people I met fell into this group. They had a cool personal narrative or a unique interest or something that made them slightly different. For example: (again ppl I met)

White girl with average stats from an upper middle class background, but became passionate about healthcare issue in Kenya. Ended up majoring in African studies, learning said language, doing her research on healthcare issues in Kenya, took a year off to work in Kenya with red cross.

Black guy from disadvantaged background. First in his family to go to college. Has average stats for top school.

White guy from disadvantaged/rural background. Wants to go into primary care/rural medicine. Has tons of EC devoted to this future dream.

URM with average stats for top schools + went to Yale for UG + good but typical EC

Non-URM with average stats for top schools + tons of research + 2-3 publications

I think a part of it is getting involved in things you are passionate in and whatever drives you to become a doctor. The other part is making this narrative clear in your application and marketing yourself well.

Hmmm, I wonder if I know this person. There aren't too many people from Yale UG going to Columbia this year.

Is this person a hispanic girl?

 

[OCDOCDOCD]

I agree, but I don't know what those activities could be.

A pattern I noticed on MDApps is that an extremely common trait among people (who claim to be) accepted to top schools is that they play an instrument. Apparently HMS is the new Julliard.

But seriously though, you need to bring something to the table that most other people don't. What top schools really love though is when you have a narrative to wrap it all up in that shows passion for some cause or activity. Doesn't really matter what it is as long as it's impressive, interesting, and unique.

 

[PanRoasted]

Well, from my experiences during second look and from analyzing the results of my friends, I would say there isn't a formula for getting into schools like Harvard, Columbia, ect. But a lot of the people I met fell into 1 of 3 groups.

1- people with average stats for top schools (3.8/36) and a unique factor-Rhode Scholar, Concert Pianist, Professional Chinese ballet dancer, Former Lawyer/top Law schools grad, ect (no joke I met all of these people during second look).

2- people with above average stats for top schools- 4.0/40+ MCAT/ lots of research/Multiple publications (the kdizzle and wangers of the world)

3- people with average stats for top schools (3.8/36) with something that stands out. The majority of people I met fell into this group. They had a cool personal narrative or a unique interest or something that made them slightly different. For example: (again ppl I met)

White girl with average stats from an upper middle class background, but became passionate about healthcare issue in Kenya. Ended up majoring in African studies, learning said language, doing her research on healthcare issues in Kenya, took a year off to work in Kenya with red cross.

Black guy from disadvantaged background. First in his family to go to college. Has average stats for top school.

White guy from disadvantaged/rural background. Wants to go into primary care/rural medicine. Has tons of EC devoted to this future dream.

URM with average stats for top schools + went to Yale for UG + good but typical EC

Non-URM with average stats for top schools + tons of research + 2-3 publications

I think a part of it is getting involved in things you are passionate in and whatever drives you to become a doctor. The other part is making this narrative clear in your application and marketing yourself well.

This actually sounds super accurate based on MDApps I've seen...

 

[Cardiothoracic]

Well, from my experiences during second look and from analyzing the results of my friends, I would say there isn't a formula for getting into schools like Harvard, Columbia, ect. But a lot of the people I met fell into 1 of 3 groups.

1- people with average stats for top schools (3.8/36) and a unique factor-Rhode Scholar, Concert Pianist, Professional Chinese ballet dancer, Former Lawyer/top Law schools grad, ect (no joke I met all of these people during second look).

2- people with above average stats for top schools- 4.0/40+ MCAT/ lots of research/Multiple publications (the kdizzle and wangers of the world)

3- people with average stats for top schools (3.8/36) with something that stands out. The majority of people I met fell into this group. They had a cool personal narrative or a unique interest or something that made them slightly different. For example: (again ppl I met)

White girl with average stats from an upper middle class background, but became passionate about healthcare issue in Kenya. Ended up majoring in African studies, learning said language, doing her research on healthcare issues in Kenya, took a year off to work in Kenya with red cross.

Black guy from disadvantaged background. First in his family to go to college. Has average stats for top school.

White guy from disadvantaged/rural background. Wants to go into primary care/rural medicine. Has tons of EC devoted to this future dream.

URM with average stats for top schools + went to Yale for UG + good but typical EC

Non-URM with average stats for top schools + tons of research + 2-3 publications

I think a part of it is getting involved in things you are passionate in and whatever drives you to become a doctor. The other part is making this narrative clear in your application and marketing yourself well.

Hypothetically speaking, would it be an advantage if you lived in poverty your whole life (below 24k a year for family), were foreign born, were the first in your family (mom/dad/brother/sister) to go to college and get a degree, and got around a 3.8 gpa/36+ mcat with average/slightly above average ec's? Advantage isn't exactly the right word, but would it be impressive to top schools that you managed to do that coming from a disadvantaged background?

 

[dahassa]

Hmmm, I wonder if I know this person. There aren't too many people from Yale UG going to Columbia this year.

Is this person a hispanic girl?

No, it was an AA male. I didn't meet him at Columbia. I met him at Duke. I believe he graduated this year (2013) and was deciding b/w Duke and Penn. He said he was leaning towards Duke, but I'm not sure where he ended up if that helps.

 

[sliceofbread136]

Sorry man, unless you did some super stellar research with alot of pubs, top 10 and even top 20 will likely be out of your reach. No harm in applying to some as reach schools though.

 

[OCDOCDOCD]

Hypothetically speaking, would it be an advantage if you lived in poverty your whole life (below 24k a year for family), were foreign born, were the first in your family (mom/dad/brother/sister) to go to college and get a degree, and got around a 3.8 gpa/36+ mcat with average/slightly above average ec's? Advantage isn't exactly the right word, but would it be impressive to top schools that you managed to do that coming from a disadvantaged background?

Yes, that's why they ask about all those things on the primary and often the secondary as well. However, if you really want to seal the deal you should do something related that disadvantaged background as a major part of your ECs. For example, after getting into college you created a charity to help other poor kids immigrating from your country also get into college. Or if you came from a country rife with civil unrest then maybe you spearheaded awareness campaigns and petitioned politicians to help your country out. There isn't an adcom in the world that wouldn't eat that up.

 

[Dbate]

No, it was an AA male. I didn't meet him at Columbia. I met him at Duke. I believe he graduated this year (2013) and was deciding b/w Duke and Penn. He said he was leaning towards Duke, but I'm not sure where he ended up if that helps.

I know exactly who that is. I'm pretty sure there is only one black guy who got into Duke from undergrad this year.

Do you know his major? I bet this guy was a Bio/Econ double major from Ghana.

Our school publishes a list of where everyone is heading off to next year and he is going to Duke.
🤣

 

[Benedictus123]

You guys should try not to Internet detective people. It's creepy.

 

[Dbate]

You guys should try not to Internet detective people. It's creepy.

Hmmm Benedictus, sounds Catholic. Maybe someone goes to Georgetown?


Nah, probably Notre Dame. 😀

 

[Benedictus123]

You got it! Class of '06.

Funny story though, I'm not Catholic. Or religious at all.

Edit: ha, just remembered that I have where I went to school in my profile.

 

[Dbate]

You got it! Class of '06.

Funny story though, I'm not Catholic. Or religious at all.

Edit: ha, just remembered that I have where I went to school in my profile.

I didn't look I swear 😎

 

[phunky]

At top schools, ECs matter much more in a sense, because everyone is 3.8+/35, so numbers really won't distinguish you in any way (apart from 40+ mcat). You need to be unique AND have near perfect numbers.

 

[MadRadLad]

At top schools, ECs matter much more in a sense, because everyone is 3.8+/35, so numbers really won't distinguish you in any way (apart from 40+ mcat). You need to be unique AND have near perfect numbers.

So what if you're applying to mid-tier schools (say 3.7/32 medians) with the same kind of score as their medians.

Obviously some higher stats will give you a leg up, but do ECs matter as much to these schools? Because if the logic is "top tiers get their pick of stats, so ECs matter more", the same could apply for a school like, say, Wayne State.

Even though their stat requirements may not be as high, you have plenty of people with less competitive and more competitive stats apply, so you have to have your ECs make a case for you anyway. Now sure, having slightly better stats will have MORE of an effect, but since you have more people with average stats applying to mid-tier schools, it's the same kind of effect isn't it?

 

[jjesque]

You don't really need to do anything extraordinary (Rhodes, publications, etc.) to get into such schools with "average" (meaning average for top schools) stats. I think the key is to do things that interest you and to try to do them at a higher level. Rather than volunteering, why not take a leadership position? Rather than simply being part of a community service program, serve on the steering committee and better the program. Rather than being a lab rat/doing grunt work, take on an independent research project.

Publications are really not as exciting as people make them out to me. Most faculty (and adcoms) understand that publications are strongly a product of the kind of lab you work in and PI you work with, and not necessarily correlated with individual effort.

(FYI I go to a top 5 school, had a mid-30's MCAT and am Asian)