How much do FM docs make in NYC?

[ibarne242]

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So it's very hard to actually find out what FM doctors make. I'm a PGY-2 (almost 3). I want to work in NYC as it's my favorite city, but I'm afraid of the "lower salary" everyone talks about. I really don't know how much lower it really is. Can anyone provide some insight?

 

[AMEHigh]

Totally depends on where you work. I’d say starting at 165,000 (but could be lower if you work for the health department for example) to 210,000 would be average for first job.

 

[InternistDO]

I’ve seen anything from $160 to $240 (+/- production), depending on if you’re working for Health + Hospitals or one of the large academic systems.

If you wait until May 15th, the NYC salary transparency law goes into effect and employers will be required to post salary ranges, so you can then browse to your hearts content.

 

[Sardonix]

Totally depends on where you work. I’d say starting at 165,000 (but could be lower if you work for the health department for example) to 210,000 would be average for first job.

Wow I hate the idea of living in New York even more now.

 

[AMEHigh]

Wow I hate the idea of living in New York even more now.

Well good thing no one is forcing you to live there!

 

[MateoGM416]

Totally depends on where you work. I’d say starting at 165,000 (but could be lower if you work for the health department for example) to 210,000 would be average for first job.

I’ve seen anything from $160 to $240 (+/- production), depending on if you’re working for Health + Hospitals or one of the large academic systems.

If you wait until May 15th, the NYC salary transparency law goes into effect and employers will be required to post salary ranges, so you can then browse to your hearts content.

Would either of you say the workload for FM docs in NYC on average compared to less populated areas? Or would that also depend on where you work. I can't imagine there is a shortage geographically of primary care physicians in NYC

 

[InternistDO]

Would either of you say the workload for FM docs in NYC on average compared to less populated areas? Or would that also depend on where you work. I can't imagine there is a shortage geographically of primary care physicians in NYC

There is a huge shortage in all the outer boroughs actually. Especially Brooklyn and the Bronx.

Workload varies, like anywhere. When I was a student I rotated in an FQHC where the attending (with a resident and a few students) was expected to grind through 20 patients in 4-5 hours which was absolutely nuts. NYC Health + Hospitals seems to cap docs at around 20 per full day (which seems about the national average). I've seen postings that expect only 12-16 per day. 20-22 seems about average.

The biggest concern I have with jobs in NYC (or Philly, or Boston) is making sure you aren't expected to refer everything that moves to a specialist. The tide is changing, even here, but the ivory tower idea that specialists are always better is still strong out.

 

[NRAI2001]

There is a huge shortage in all the outer boroughs actually. Especially Brooklyn and the Bronx.

Workload varies, like anywhere. When I was a student I rotated in an FQHC where the attending (with a resident and a few students) was expected to grind through 20 patients in 4-5 hours which was absolutely nuts. NYC Health + Hospitals seems to cap docs at around 20 per full day (which seems about the national average). I've seen postings that expect only 12-16 per day. 20-22 seems about average.

The biggest concern I have with jobs in NYC (or Philly, or Boston) is making sure you aren't expected to refer everything that moves to a specialist. The tide is changing, even here, but the ivory tower idea that specialists are always better is still strong out.

I always wonder why people think this? 20 patients in 5 hours is literally 15 mins per primary care patient. 4 per hour. Most are usually there for simple reasons. You re not rounding on ICU patients. These are wellness checks, UTIs, ear infections, refills, go over A1c or TSH, colds...etc. I hope it doesnt take you 15 mins for any of these. More like 5-10mins. Occasionally will have a more complicated pt and that has to be factored in.

 

[InternistDO]

I always wonder why people think this? 20 patients in 5 hours is literally 15 mins per primary care patient. 4 per hour. Most are usually there for simple reasons. You re not rounding on ICU patients. These are wellness checks, UTIs, ear infections, refills, go over A1c or TSH, colds...etc. I hope it doesnt take you 15 mins for any of these. More like 5-10mins. Occasionally will have a more complicated pt and that has to be factored in.

Those are all easy, and if you have a reasonably healthy panel and good office support and subspecialty access you may be able to churn out 40 a day. But if you have an older, sicker panel, or a panel with low health literacy, or are in a place where it may be difficult to refer certain issues, especially time consuming conditions like psych, then I think 40 patients is either going to be unsustainable or lead to you practicing very little actual medicine other than med refills and USPSTF screenings.

I'm probably biased on where I've trained though, all inner city areas with lots of poverty and therefore the patients in clinic tend to have multiple problems, most managed by us. I might have a different perspective if I had more experience with healthier populations.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Those are all easy, and if you have a reasonably healthy panel and good office support and subspecialty access you may be able to churn out 40 a day. But if you have an older, sicker panel, or a panel with low health literacy, or are in a place where it may be difficult to refer certain issues, especially time consuming conditions like psych, then I think 40 patients is either going to be unsustainable or lead to you practicing very little actual medicine other than med refills and USPSTF screenings.

I'm probably biased on where I've trained though, all inner city areas with lots of poverty and therefore the patients in clinic tend to have multiple problems, most managed by us. I might have a different perspective if I had more experience with healthier populations.

For a standard day, 40 isn't sustainable. But mid/upper 20s very much is.

 

[NRAI2001]

For a standard day, 40 isn't sustainable. But mid/upper 20s very much is.

How much time do you need per patient on average. Its funny at my office they switched from salaried to productivity based system. Friday the docs were seeing 20 per day and on Monday moving forward they were seeing 40+ per day and happier than ever.

EMR, patient population and staff make a huge difference.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

How much time do you need per patient on average. Its funny at my office they switched from salaried to productivity based system. Friday the docs were seeing 20 per day and on Monday moving forward they were seeing 40+ per day and happier than ever.

EMR, patient population and staff make a huge difference.

Wide variety. Some patients I see twice a year for about 5 minutes. Some I see every 3 months and need 15-20 minutes.

I schedule patients for every 15 minutes and very very rarely run behind since the super fast patients let me build up some wiggle room for the ones who need more time.

 

[Sleepingdoc]

every year some suckers who graduate buy into seeing more patients for less pay(dream of a admin who is trying to take advantage of them).... Who wants to see upper 20's amount of patients in 8 hours everyday, full of geriatrics or foreign language speaking patients, who dont even know what medications they are on and multiple comorbid conditions.... Good luck doing those in 5-10 minutes...

 

[jacobus1919]

I have classmates who work in NYC; Bronx and Brooklyn. Seems it ranges between 164 to 185 yearly. Some have not so good incentives from what I am hearing. I would rather go Upstate and be paid fair with good incentives and better PTO benefits with Admin days

 

[betamale]

Better work for urgent care. I was offered 285k for urgent care at NYC. <200k would be very depressing and financially hard in NYC.

 

[Sleepingdoc]

I have classmates who work in NYC; Bronx and Brooklyn. Seems it ranges between 164 to 185 yearly. Some have not so good incentives from what I am hearing. I would rather go Upstate and be paid fair with good incentives and better PTO benefits with Admin days

These people are suckers. No one is forcing them to work for that much... you can get so much more... Some nurses are making more than this... LOL

 

[jacobus1919]

These people are suckers. No one is forcing them to work for that much... you can get so much more... Some nurses are making more than this... LOL

I agree. but i for one prefer not to live in NYC period. I can drive there anytime for a quick trip.

 

[c0pycat]

I have classmates who work in NYC; Bronx and Brooklyn. Seems it ranges between 164 to 185 yearly. Some have not so good incentives from what I am hearing. I would rather go Upstate and be paid fair with good incentives and better PTO benefits with Admin days

Wow...so 4 years of undergrad...4 years of medical school and 3 years of training...to be making 164-185K?! What a joke...your friends are so so underpaid after so much schooling and training. NYC is trashy...dirty, high taxes and so expensive...just not worth it.

 

[Sleepingdoc]

Wow...so 4 years of undergrad...4 years of medical school and 3 years of training...to be making 164-185K?! What a joke...your friends are so so underpaid after so much schooling and training. NYC is trashy...dirty, high taxes and so expensive...just not worth it.

Exactly.. These people who work for less may be physicians but they are not smart... Sorry they are just stupid. I would have used a french language too because they ruin it for other people too by signing for a low amount, and brings the market down. I tell my colleagues who work there, be smart, you are worth so much more than that...164k in new york is like 65k somewhere else...lol

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Many of the people who do FM in NYC have trust funds that would allow them to live comfortably in NYC without the salary or a rich partner (think investment banker, hedge fund manager etc.)

 

[Sleepingdoc]

Many of the people who do FM in NYC have trust funds that would allow them to live comfortably in NYC without the salary or a rich partner (think investment banker, hedge fund manager etc.)

That still does not mean you work more and get paid less from your job.

 

[Ironheme]

That still does not mean you work more and get paid less from your job.

But if they want to live in NYC and aren't doing it for the money - it may be the right choice for them.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

That still does not mean you work more and get paid less from your job.

I was just saying that the salary isn’t needed so it’s like a drop in the bucket. What’s 150k vs. 300k when you have a 10million dollar trust. Kind of like the spouses of billionaires who start unsuccessful chocolate businesses or something. It’s an accessory career to talk about at dinner parties, not a needed job/wage


Obviously this doesn’t apply to all doctors in the city, but it’s been my observation for a decent amount

 

[Sleepingdoc]

I was just saying that the salary isn’t needed so it’s like a drop in the bucket. What’s 150k vs. 300k when you have a 10million dollar trust. Kind of like the spouses of billionaires who start unsuccessful chocolate businesses or something. It’s an accessory career to talk about at dinner parties, not a needed job/wage


Obviously this doesn’t apply to all doctors in the city, but it’s been my observation for a decent amount

I hope these people work for charity and just do good in the society, why get paid at all, if they want to do good in the society, good for them. Yes I totally agree- I would do the same as well if i have a 10 mil trust. But if i work for a corporate, and expect to get paid that little to work, its just not smart.