how much do OMT docs make?

[idktisnf]

So, how much do DOs that do only OMM make per year?

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[Charlie Bravo]

Unless your in an area where a cash only business can thrive (ie. Upper class neighborhood) you won't do so well. Medicare/Medicaid reimburse very little and i don't think insurance companies do much better.

 

[Primresp]

I'm an attending who does only OMT in my practice.

While it is true that OMT docs *tend* to make more in upscale areas (New York, LA, etc), it is possible to do VERY WELL doing OMT. It just depends on your practice, how many hours you work, if you do injections, prolo, acupuncture, etc.

Medicare pays differently depending on the state. New York, for example, pays pretty well for Medicare.

I've spent many years with many different OMT docs when I was a DO student- they do really really well.

Most OMT docs are turning patients away they are so busy.

Above all, please don't go into OMT unless you really love the work, and also, don't choose another specialty because you think you can't make a great living doing OMT. You can!

Hope that helps.🙂

 

[OnMyWayThere]

Here in in the L.A. area I've heard them making anywhere from $120,000 to an excess of $400,000 a year (one established doc in San Diego) doing only cash based OMT

 

[dcratamt]

Most of the numbers i have heard are in the $300,000-$500,000 range. I could probably scrape by with that.

 

[OnMyWayThere]

There is a doctor in San Diego that charges $300-$500 per session... and has a 3 month waiting list. I guess if they work 4 days a week, 8 hours a day - and each patient takes 1 hour - that equates to over $600k a year on average --- cash.

 

[DOSouthpaw]

As a Second Year FP Resident, let me give you my experience.

We receive monthly billing records from the hospital showing how much we collect, and at the end of my internship, I had seen less patients than the rest of the interns and I had collected three times the amount of money than all of them except for one. Guess what I and that other guy had in common? OMT. I treat about 80% of my patients in the FP clinic and it pays well. It takes me about 3 extra min. per patient and I am able to add 40-120 dollars to each, and the patient feels much better.

The really cool thing is that the OMM residents are basically pain doctors because just about all of the people they are treating are there for pain. As an FP resident, I treat all conditions with OMT and surprise myself at the conditions I am able to correct with a little Osteopathy.

 

[DOSouthpaw]

There is a doctor in San Diego that charges $300-$500 per session... and has a 3 month waiting list. I guess if they work 4 days a week, 8 hours a day - and each patient takes 1 hour - that equates to over $600k a year on average --- cash.

There is a lady in town (a very blue collar area as well) who was wanting to cut down on her hours so she jacked her price up to 250/hr for OMT hoping it would drive some patients away. She is still full and has a huge waiting list.

250/hr with little overhead is very good, but not as good as an Osteopathic FP can make if he/she knows how to do it right. There is no reason you cannot make 400/hr doing FP.

 

[McDoctor]

As a Second Year FP Resident, let me give you my experience.

We receive monthly billing records from the hospital showing how much we collect, and at the end of my internship, I had seen less patients than the rest of the interns and I had collected three times the amount of money than all of them except for one. Guess what I and that other guy had in common? OMT. I treat about 80% of my patients in the FP clinic and it pays well. It takes me about 3 extra min. per patient and I am able to add 40-120 dollars to each, and the patient feels much better.

The really cool thing is that the OMM residents are basically pain doctors because just about all of the people they are treating are there for pain. As an FP resident, I treat all conditions with OMT and surprise myself at the conditions I am able to correct with a little Osteopathy.

I'm pretty sure medicare pays just a little over $50 for the highest billable CPT code 98929 (OMT 9-10 regions). If you are doing OMT to 9 or 10 regions in under 5 minutes then I would argue that you are either overbilling or practicing a form of quackery. I would say the same of any doctor who lists 10 separate diagnoses or procedures in the span of a 5 minute office visit, regardless of whether we are talking about OMT or not.

CMS states that when you bill for OMT, the presumption exists that you are also performing an E and M for the diagnosis. I doubt you are routinely getting paid for an E&M code for low back pain and then also a procedure code for OMT on the lumbar spine, within the span of one visit. There's no way this is happening with 3rd party payors. Medicaid is capitated in my state, and doesn't reimburse OMT at all. So medicaid varies.

As far as cash only goes, obviously you can potentially make whatever the market would bear. But the numbers being thrown around in this thread are far from typical.

 

[McDoctor]

...CMS states that when you bill for OMT, the presumption exists that you are also performing an E and M for the diagnosis. ...

Edit: I actually think I'm wrong on this. I think CMS does allow for an E and M and then a modifier 25 for OMT in 1 visit. but this guideline is not routinely followed by 3rd party payors.

 

[djnels01]

As a Second Year FP Resident, let me give you my experience.

We receive monthly billing records from the hospital showing how much we collect, and at the end of my internship, I had seen less patients than the rest of the interns and I had collected three times the amount of money than all of them except for one. Guess what I and that other guy had in common? OMT. I treat about 80% of my patients in the FP clinic and it pays well. It takes me about 3 extra min. per patient and I am able to add 40-120 dollars to each, and the patient feels much better.

The really cool thing is that the OMM residents are basically pain doctors because just about all of the people they are treating are there for pain. As an FP resident, I treat all conditions with OMT and surprise myself at the conditions I am able to correct with a little Osteopathy.

So what kind of treatments (predominately) are you using to make this kind of $$$?

HVLA? Soft Tissue? Muscle Energy?

 

[thesauce]

Most of the numbers i have heard are in the $300,000-$500,000 range. I could probably scrape by with that.

300-500K? Give me a break.

 

[Onstarr]

300-500k sound too extreme..
not saying it cant be done but.. isnt that a bit high?

but i do hear that many OMT practices have a crazy waitlist.

and you are right.. for FP, you can just add in OMT and make extra cash for just few extra mins... not to mention it is beneficial to the patient.

👍👍

 

[Beau Geste]

300-500K? Give me a break.

megaman!

 

[Phallacious]

My grandmother gave me a chocolate cake she baked espcially for me after I did wonders for her c-spine. In her own words, "I haven't been able to give head like this in decades." If you are inquiring as to precise dollar figures, well I have contended all along..."you can't accurately quantify what my two hands are worth now that I have completed 200 hours of OMM lab."

 

[DOctorJay]

300-500K? Give me a break.

yup, just ask my OMM prof

 

[PlasticMan]

The Docs at NYCOM that do OMT seem to have no problem getting a huge amount of patients. I stopped by the clinic at school yesterday to find out 2 of the docs are no longer taking new patients as they are booked for months!

I have also heard the descendant of the famous Dr. Schiowitz(the guy from NYCOM who invented FPR), has an OMT cash practice in Manhattan and has 7 digit income. 😱

On an unrelated side note, I know of an infectious disease doctor(MD) in Manhattan, who does boutique medicine treating new york's rich and celebs and is always on those top docs of NYC lists and he pulls in $3 million+/year. 😱 😱

 

[OnMyWayThere]

On an unrelated side note, I know of an infectious disease doctor(MD) in Manhattan, who does boutique medicine treating new york's rich and celebs and is always on those top docs of NYC lists and he pulls in $3 million+/year. 😱 😱

😱 How much does he charge each patient a year??

 

[JaggerPlate]

My grandmother gave me a chocolate cake she baked espcially for me after I did wonders for her c-spine. In her own words, "I haven't been able to give head like this in decades." If you are inquiring as to precise dollar figures, well I have contended all along..."you can't accurately quantify what my two hands are worth now that I have completed 200 hours of OMM lab."

Please tell me someone else sees this too ... and it's not just me.

 

[PlasticMan]

😱 How much does he charge each patient a year??

He charges on a fee for service basis, but does not accept insurance. Cash/credit accepted. I know his office fee is ~$500 and a yearly physical is ~$1500. Ka-ching. 😎

 

[DOctorJay]

Please tell me someone else sees this too ... and it's not just me.

look at the screen name😉

 

[JaggerPlate]

look at the screen name😉

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH ... swing and a miss. That's too funny!

 

[Onstarr]

docs in manhattan = ka ching.

 

[JasonUD]

Plasticman beat me to it. I was going to say that my doctor at NYCOM has 2 friends with cash only OMT practices on Park Ave in Manhattan and he said they each bring in over $1,000,000 a year!

 

[Meatwad]

My grandmother gave me a chocolate cake she baked espcially for me after I did wonders for her c-spine. In her own words, "I haven't been able to give head like this in decades." If you are inquiring as to precise dollar figures, well I have contended all along..."you can't accurately quantify what my two hands are worth now that I have completed 200 hours of OMM lab."

LMFAO.

One of the stupidest/funniest things I've ever read on this forum.

 

[DOSouthpaw]

So what kind of treatments (predominately) are you using to make this kind of $$$?

HVLA? Soft Tissue? Muscle Energy?

Ok, let me break down my usual patient that I see in my residency.

Patient problems:
DM, HTN, Dyslipoproteinemia, fatigue, Vit D Defeciency, Back Pain.

This is clearly at least a level four established patient. Most insurance co reimburse about 80-100 bucks for this visit. When I do my osteopathic Exam I find Thoracic restriction (T1-5 because of the increased workload on the heart and sympathetic overdrive in the HTN), SI Joint restriction and probably LE restriction because this person is more than likely overweight. Now of course because of the insulin resistence, this person probably has a buffalo hump around C6-T1 causing restiction around this area. The extra abdominal obesity pulls the shoulder forward causing tightness in the strap muscles in the neck which some attach to the first Ribs, and Psoas Spasm. So now I treat them. MET on the Psoas, Myofascial on the neck and O/A, HVLA on the Thoracics, Articulatory techniques on the SI joints, ribs, and knees, and MET on the shoulders. So now I've treated A/O(739.0), the Cervicals (739.1), the Thoracics(739.2), the Sacrum(739.4), the Pelvis(739.5), the LE(739.6), Ribs(739.8), and the Psoas(739.9). How many areas did I just treat in 5-6 min? Eight! So that is a level four exam with a 25 modifier with a 8 region treatment, and a code for a blood draw if you get some labs done. Of course, you're probably also going to do a Microalbumin and hbA1c on this patient.

Breakdown

EM Code- 80-100
OMT- 80-90
Blood Draw- 15

 

[McDoctor]

Ok, let me break down my usual patient that I see in my residency.

Patient problems:
DM, HTN, Dyslipoproteinemia, fatigue, Vit D Defeciency, Back Pain.

This is clearly at least a level four established patient. Most insurance co reimburse about 80-100 bucks for this visit. When I do my osteopathic Exam I find Thoracic restriction (T1-5 because of the increased workload on the heart and sympathetic overdrive in the HTN), SI Joint restriction and probably LE restriction because this person is more than likely overweight. Now of course because of the insulin resistence, this person probably has a buffalo hump around C6-T1 causing restiction around this area. The extra abdominal obesity pulls the shoulder forward causing tightness in the strap muscles in the neck which some attach to the first Ribs, and Psoas Spasm. So now I treat them. MET on the Psoas, Myofascial on the neck and O/A, HVLA on the Thoracics, Articulatory techniques on the SI joints, ribs, and knees, and MET on the shoulders. So now I've treated A/O(739.0), the Cervicals (739.1), the Thoracics(739.2), the Sacrum(739.4), the Pelvis(739.5), the LE(739.6), Ribs(739.8), and the Psoas(739.9). How many areas did I just treat in 5-6 min? Eight! So that is a level four exam with a 25 modifier with a 8 region treatment, and a code for a blood draw if you get some labs done. Of course, you're probably also going to do a Microalbumin and hbA1c on this patient.

Breakdown

EM Code- 80-100
OMT- 80-90
Blood Draw- 15

You are not getting reimbursed this much for OMT. Also, no way are addressing all these issues and doing OMT within the span of a 15 minute visit as a resident. The symptom of "fatigue" in and of itself warrants an expanded history and review of symptoms.

Most commercial insurances won't reimburse for both the EM code and the procedure code. they will pick the lowest one (the OMT code in this case) and just pay for that. you can appeal it but most physicians don't do their own billing or don't have the time/inclination.

http://okosteo.org/March Pres Msg.htm

diabetes and hypertension warrant consistent careful evaluation of multiple body systems. there's no proven benefit to OMT. This 5-6 minutes is better spent obtaining a thorough review of symptoms, rechecking the nurses vitals, doing monofilament testing, reviewing labs, ensuring core measures are up to date (eye ezams, A1C testing, lipid goals, pneumovax, urine microalbumin, etc...). Just bring this patient back for OMT with a separate visit. You are more likely to get paid properly and it's better medicine.

The idea is to care for people and help them live longer, not rack up charges for every conceivable procedure code. What you are describing is not much different from cardiologists who perform excessive unwarranted catheterizations or gastroenterologists who perform excessive endoscopies.

 

[DOSouthpaw]

No, the above is our reimbursements, the charges are about double that. If you read my post you will see that if I'm charging a level 4 EM code then I must be doing expanded histories and ROS. And how is doing OMT unwarranted if somatic dysfunction is present? I know there is no proven benefit of OMT for HTN/DM, but that's not what I'm treating, I'm treating S/D, which is another identifiable process which is why I include the -25 modifier.

 

[McDoctor]

No, the above is our reimbursements, the charges are about double that. If you read my post you will see that if I'm charging a level 4 EM code then I must be doing expanded histories and ROS. And how is doing OMT unwarranted if somatic dysfunction is present? I know there is no proven benefit of OMT for HTN/DM, but that's not what I'm treating, I'm treating S/D, which is another identifiable process which is why I include the -25 modifier.

I just provided you a link which summarizes what medicare allows, and what medicare typically pays, for OMT. OMT to 7-8 regions is not going to pay more than $50.

 

[Old_Mil]

So, how much do DOs that do only OMM make per year?

True or False: As long as he/she doesn't call himself a doctor, and so long as he/she doesn't engage in any sort of allopathic diagnosis and treatment...any lay person can spend a year reading an OMM book and hang out a shingle calling themselves a provider of "Osteopathic Manipulative Therapy"...?

I would suspect this to be true, and therefore wouldn't recommend this as a field (for the same reason I wouldn't recommend setting your heart on a job in a call center based in the US).

For that matter, I'd view radiology as a bit suspect. Anytime you place yourself in a position where lower cost providers can easily compete with you, you place your career at risk.

 

[McDoctor]

True or False: As long as he/she doesn't call himself a doctor, and so long as he/she doesn't engage in any sort of allopathic diagnosis and treatment...any lay person can spend a year reading an OMM book and hang out a shingle calling themselves a provider of "Osteopathic Manipulative Therapy"...?

I would suspect this to be true, and therefore wouldn't recommend this as a field (for the same reason I wouldn't recommend setting your heart on a job in a call center based in the US).
...

For cash only, this is true. Medicare and insurance companies have a credentialing process and won't reimburse just anyone.

 

[dcratamt]

True or False: As long as he/she doesn't call himself a doctor, and so long as he/she doesn't engage in any sort of allopathic diagnosis and treatment...any lay person can spend a year reading an OMM book and hang out a shingle calling themselves a provider of "Osteopathic Manipulative Therapy"...?

I would suspect this to be true, and therefore wouldn't recommend this as a field (for the same reason I wouldn't recommend setting your heart on a job in a call center based in the US).

For that matter, I'd view radiology as a bit suspect. Anytime you place yourself in a position where lower cost providers can easily compete with you, you place your career at risk.

False. On a purely practical level reading a book on OMM won't teach you how to perform OMM correctly. If you are going to charge $50-$100/hr then you need to get results with your treatments. Second, a lay person cannot just hang a shingle calling themselves a provider of "Osteopathic Manipulative Therapy" and open a clinic. If your claiming this you better have an Osteopathic degree/license whether it be from a Canadian Osteopathic school, other foreign school or a US Osteopathic school. This would be like saying a lay person could read a book on physical therapy and then open there own clinic as long as they don't use an ultrasound machine or charge insurance companies for reimbursement. We don't take COMLEX/USMLE exams and pay yearly licensing fees to the state so that Joe Shmoe can read a book, hang a shingle and steal our livelihood.

 

[homeboy]

this thread is ridiculous.
it's no different than a pain specialist giving an injection to every person with an ache or pain--he can bill for a procedure and make the patient feel better.
doesn't mean every patient needs one.
is OMT any better just because it's "easier" for the physician to do? less invasive?
this is what is wrong with healthcare today.
pathetic.

and dcratamt...you don't need an osteopathic degree: all you need is CME courses (if you're an MD). results my a**.