How much do yall work?

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EctopicFetus said:
I have a question. First I realize im an incredibly boring human. What else is there to do? I admit the financial rewards of work play a huge role for me. Take away EM pay and im not working.. But lets say you are in your early 50s, kids are still at home (lets pretend) what is it that you do if you dont work? 100 hours a month is basically 12-8s or 8-12s or 10-10s. So lets call it 8-12 days a month of work. That leaves 18-22 days off a month.

Docs I know, golf, fish etc. I like some of those things.. However, it becomes a chore. I dont know how people spend their time. When I retire I want to travel and do it well but like most things I can only do so much. I know some people have very time consuming hobbies. I dont. Perhaps this is my issue?
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WhatJobDoIPick said:
So much.

My hobbies/past times currently:
-Learning golf
-Video games (Nintendo switch 2 is a blast)
-Reading about modern Iranian history
-Lifting
-Running
-Board gaming
-Hiking w dog
-planning a trip to Europe

Literally would rather do anything else than work in the ED.
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I go between these two positions too frequently. If I have say, 6 days off, I'm itching to go back to work and "do some medicine" by day 5.

Then, just last night I gave away a shift to another doc who wanted the hours, giving me a stretch of 8 days off. Immediately after completing the swap, I said to myself: "GOOD! Get me the EFF away from that place for a good long while."

We're planning a trip to Oregon next month, Italy in October, and I'm absolutely skiing on my birthday in January.

I'm a damn good golfer, but I don't want to play. I played in a tournament on Monday and thought to myself: "THIS, this is why I don't play anymore... 18 holes should take 3-4 hours and go smoothly, not 5+ hours and involve all this circus. Screw this.
 
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WhatJobDoIPick said:
I wish I had a more stable group to play with but most recently played Wingspan which was a lot of fun. Scythe is another of my all time favs.
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I play Waterdeep with a friend, who was the one who got me into it. He said it's more interesting than Risk, and I concur!
 
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EctopicFetus said:
I have a question. First I realize im an incredibly boring human. What else is there to do? I admit the financial rewards of work play a huge role for me. Take away EM pay and im not working.. But lets say you are in your early 50s, kids are still at home (lets pretend) what is it that you do if you dont work? 100 hours a month is basically 12-8s or 8-12s or 10-10s. So lets call it 8-12 days a month of work. That leaves 18-22 days off a month.

Docs I know, golf, fish etc. I like some of those things.. However, it becomes a chore. I dont know how people spend their time. When I retire I want to travel and do it well but like most things I can only do so much. I know some people have very time consuming hobbies. I dont. Perhaps this is my issue?
Click to expand...

@HemorrhagicShock living the life and not working clinical anymore
 
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EctopicFetus said:
I have a question. First I realize im an incredibly boring human. What else is there to do? I admit the financial rewards of work play a huge role for me. Take away EM pay and im not working.. But lets say you are in your early 50s, kids are still at home (lets pretend) what is it that you do if you dont work? 100 hours a month is basically 12-8s or 8-12s or 10-10s. So lets call it 8-12 days a month of work. That leaves 18-22 days off a month.

Docs I know, golf, fish etc. I like some of those things.. However, it becomes a chore. I dont know how people spend their time. When I retire I want to travel and do it well but like most things I can only do so much. I know some people have very time consuming hobbies. I dont. Perhaps this is my issue?
Click to expand...
Oh I could walk tomorrow! I would miss people and some significant aspects of the ED but I would:
Sleep and wake at reasonable times
Workout more like 2-3hr a day (bike, run, lift)
Read. I have so many books to read.
Watch. I have so many movies to watch!
Listen. I have a stack of podcasts I’d love to enjoy.
Cook. I enjoy fancy prissy foodie from scratch cooking.
Make more of my little plastic model tanks and planes. Could do this a few hours most days.
Play. I love board games and computer games.
Plus the hang out with the family stuff. Maybe I could actually coach one of their teams.
Oh and the travel! I have about 1838268 things I’d like to see.

Eventually I may get a volunteer position or something to keep further engaged (I like history and outside, so maybe something park service or local history related).

There aren’t enough hours left in my life.
 
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WhatJobDoIPick said:
So much.

My hobbies/past times currently:
-Learning golf
-Video games (Nintendo switch 2 is a blast)
-Reading about modern Iranian history
-Lifting
-Running
-Board gaming
-Hiking w dog
-planning a trip to Europe

Literally would rather do anything else than work in the ED.
Click to expand...
I have tried golf over and over and find it boring. I tend to enjoy sports where I compete against someone. Basketball , tennis etc. I find golf so boring.

I enjoy the gym. That’s the one think I would do more of for sure.

Hiking I enjoy also but I feel like I have enough time to do this now if I wanted to

Planning vacations is also fun but especially today AI can do 95% of the work in no time.
 
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WhatJobDoIPick said:
I wish I had a more stable group to play with but most recently played Wingspan which was a lot of fun. Scythe is another of my all time favs.
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I have wingspan at home. Had never played it before and had some friends over. We heard it was complicated so I looked up a video tutorial of how to play online and this was what came up:

Not gonna lie, it took us about 2-3 minutes before we realized this might not actually be accurate.

FYI: For people who have played wingspan, you might find the video comical. It isn't worth a watch for anyone else.
 
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My day so far:

Two Karen's pissed off at me.

Almost every case some flavor of somatization.

Unsolvable "family doesn't want to care for patient" x 17.

Can't wait to leave this trash field.
 
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WhatJobDoIPick said:
My day so far:

Two Karen's pissed off at me.

Almost every case some flavor of somatization.

Unsolvable "family doesn't want to care for patient" x 17.

Can't wait to leave this trash field.
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Even from the utilization side "I cant take take of grandma anymore" is deeply annoying. It's not as bad since I just spend 5 minutes slotting them into an external transfer or clarifying the patient status and move on but it still hurts my soul as a flashback to seeing people just dumping humans in the ed and running
 
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AlmostAnMD said:
Even from the utilization side "I cant take take of grandma anymore" is deeply annoying. It's not as bad since I just spend 5 minutes slotting them into an external transfer or clarifying the patient status and move on but it still hurts my soul as a flashback to seeing people just dumping humans in the ed and running
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Almost sounds like....you should have had a plan.
 
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Janders said:
Oh I could walk tomorrow! I would miss people and some significant aspects of the ED but I would:
Sleep and wake at reasonable times
Workout more like 2-3hr a day (bike, run, lift)
Read. I have so many books to read.
Watch. I have so many movies to watch!
Listen. I have a stack of podcasts I’d love to enjoy.
Cook. I enjoy fancy prissy foodie from scratch cooking.
Make more of my little plastic model tanks and planes. Could do this a few hours most days.
Play. I love board games and computer games.
Plus the hang out with the family stuff. Maybe I could actually coach one of their teams.
Oh and the travel! I have about 1838268 things I’d like to see.

Eventually I may get a volunteer position or something to keep further engaged (I like history and outside, so maybe something park service or local history related).

There aren’t enough hours left in my life.
Click to expand...

I’m not the biggest fan of traveling the way most people do it (cramming as much as they can into 1-2 weeks, having to deal with jet lag while also trying to tick things off the box) but the biggest perk of true retirement is that when you do travel, you can spend a good minimum 3-4 weeks at a location to really immerse yourself in the location and culture.
 
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16 shifts ~160-170 hours. between a full time job and a part time job.

Have actually been over 200 hours month on 18 shifts for the last year, but i'm leaving the part time job and increasing the full time job to hit the 160-170 hours goal. Which I guess is better for the family than consistently doing >140 at one job and >60 at another.

Wife says I have to take my foot off the gas, but she also likes expensive vacations and investing in properties, so the cash machine cant stop yet.
 
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RustedFox said:
You guys are insane.
You all must bring home freaking 500K+ a year.

I work 120/month (sometimes less) and live on that 360K.
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Its nice to own multiple properties in south florida while still fully funding the retirement and still going on vacations. At some point all of those investments hit a point where I can stop working almost completely and be a dad who is actually 'around' by the time my kids care about that (the one kid is a toddler right now. She doesnt care. objectively im just as exciting to her after a 10 minute turd break as a 8 day locums trip out of state). Goal is to not just "slow down" but to be able to work exclusively for pocket cash and my own brain exercise in a few years,
 
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EctopicFetus said:
I have a question. First I realize im an incredibly boring human. What else is there to do? I admit the financial rewards of work play a huge role for me. Take away EM pay and im not working.. But lets say you are in your early 50s, kids are still at home (lets pretend) what is it that you do if you dont work? 100 hours a month is basically 12-8s or 8-12s or 10-10s. So lets call it 8-12 days a month of work. That leaves 18-22 days off a month.

Docs I know, golf, fish etc. I like some of those things.. However, it becomes a chore. I dont know how people spend their time. When I retire I want to travel and do it well but like most things I can only do so much. I know some people have very time consuming hobbies. I dont. Perhaps this is my issue?
Click to expand...

I’m 44. I have two kids, a household to maintain and run, and an aging parent (I lost my father in the past year). I barely have time for anything that doesn’t involve the above, and my husband feels the same
 
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Perhaps the heart of this discussion on how many hours you work (also dependent upon what point in your career you are) is how we each allocate the rest of our time. It’s very personal and individualized. How much we work might boil down to even the minutia of how long we take to get ready in the morning or to go to work. Some drag time out with even simple tasks and others tackle them like a drill sergeant. Some enjoy sitting and staring at the sky not needing much more to do, while others need to stay constantly busy even in their time off. I thought how much you work just depended upon how much you want to spend, but I’ve changed my mind and now also think it depends a lot upon the pace you spend on trivial tasks along with how much satisfaction you derive from each of those items that fill up the day. There is a bell curve, but to each their own. Start high with hours worked in residency, pay off your loans and build up a nest egg, then gradually decrease according to burn out, other priorities, and your own unique use of time.
 
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Mount Asclepius said:
Perhaps the heart of this discussion on how many hours you work (also dependent upon what point in your career you are) is how we each allocate the rest of our time. It’s very personal and individualized. How much we work might boil down to even the minutia of how long we take to get ready in the morning or to go to work. Some drag time out with even simple tasks and others tackle them like a drill sergeant. Some enjoy sitting and staring at the sky not needing much more to do, while others need to stay constantly busy even in their time off. I thought how much you work just depended upon how much you want to spend, but I’ve changed my mind and now also think it depends a lot upon the pace you spend on trivial tasks along with how much satisfaction you derive from each of those items that fill up the day. There is a bell curve, but to each their own. Start high with hours worked in residency, pay off your loans and build up a nest egg, then gradually decrease according to burn out, other priorities, and your own unique use of time.
Click to expand...
See this variability among guys and their gym/exercise routine. I notice the consistent AM crew maintains strict sleep hygiene and schedules so they can wake up at 3-4 am to go straight to the gym, get their work out in, shower at the gym, then go straight to work after. No traffic, no crowd. Efficiency.
 
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sloh said:
See this variability among guys and their gym/exercise routine. I notice the consistent AM crew maintains strict sleep hygiene and schedules so they can wake up at 3-4 am to go straight to the gym, get their work out in, shower at the gym, then go straight to work after. No traffic, no crowd. Efficiency.
Click to expand...


I worked nights for 5 years and had a similar schedule. Strict schedule of waking up and going to gym, but it would be at 2p or so instead since I worked nights.

Gym was what kept me mostly sane.

Now that I'm back on days I'm up at 5:15a every morning before work at 7a.

The great irony of working nights for 5 years is actually at my core I'm a morning person lol
 
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DocEspana said:
16 shifts ~160-170 hours. between a full time job and a part time job.

Have actually been over 200 hours month on 18 shifts for the last year, but i'm leaving the part time job and increasing the full time job to hit the 160-170 hours goal. Which I guess is better for the family than consistently doing >140 at one job and >60 at another.

Wife says I have to take my foot off the gas, but she also likes expensive vacations and investing in properties, so the cash machine cant stop yet.
Click to expand...

Ah yes, the ol' "make a lot of money to buy me expensive things but also be home to give me attention"
 
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RustedFox said:
You guys are insane.
You all must bring home freaking 500K+ a year.

I work 120/month (sometimes less) and live on that 360K.
Click to expand...

565, 723, 684, 767, 626 (out to Sept but projected ~830)

Don’t have records before this and would have to pull tax records from CPA.
 
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RustedFox said:
You guys are insane.
You all must bring home freaking 500K+ a year.

I work 120/month (sometimes less) and live on that 360K.
Click to expand...
Yeah I'm in your camp, now. Was north of 400k for a while, but being debt free dramatically improves cash flow.

I never understood the people who say 'don't know what I'd do if I wasn't working'. There aren't enough hours in the day right now for me to get done everything I want. Gym time + my recent addition of 10k steps or swimming is already like 2-3 hours of daily exercise. Add to that things that need to get done around the house, kids, me cooking some of my own meals, books I've been meaning to read, and you've got everything you need to fill up your day.

But yeah, also up at 4am for the gym when I have my morning shift. Not necessarily because I want to, but because I know if I don't get in my workout before my shift on days, it's not happening at all lol.
 
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low 500s last 2 years (average 130-140 a month), moving into admin this year so clinical hours will go down about 25-30% but with admin money will prob be low 600s
 
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This thread reminds me of reading about people's STEP scores and thinking I would never get into residency lol. I'm actually really interested in how many true days off people get a month, especially those who are not nocturnists and have to deal with the back and forth switching. That is what I am trying to maximize these days.
 
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lp430 said:
This thread reminds me of reading about people's STEP scores and thinking I would never get into residency lol. I'm actually really interested in how many true days off people get a month, especially those who are not nocturnists and have to deal with the back and forth switching. That is what I am trying to maximize these days.
Click to expand...

I went nocturnist to maximize my time off.

I choose my shifts. Otherwise, eff off unless you wave bonus money at me.
Taking 3 big vacations in the next 6 months.
 
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anyone think of maybe doing part time after 5-7 years i want to get my house paid off
 
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Interpolfanclub said:
I’ve done EM for 15 years now, these numbers are not typical.
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I know but having the potential to even make 600k+ is big. I can only make ~500k as an IM doc even if I work really hard.

The system is unsustainable (too much waste), so I might as well make a lot of $$$ fast and not holding any bags (student loan) when everything blows up.
 
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Splenda88 said:
Jesus Christ.

I should have done EM.
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You can make this money in IM as well

end stage fibro

Post in: 'Physician advisor position / transitioning away from clinical medicine'

anonperson said:
Who in the organization is championing this risk score? Any reason why they are so invested?

It's always amusing when administration starts to focus on various measures year to year. Most make little to no sense. It is always some clown who is pushing for it who happens to have disproportionate influence.
Click to expand...

bolded part bang on. in this case, came from the board wanting a specific goal --> system CEO + CMO --> various --> CMIO (who is a good/smart guy) and head of case mgmt (who means well and i think is overall effective, but perhaps set in their ways) settled on the score...
  • Like

"on my W2....pays maybe 20k more than the average hospitalist salary in the area. per actual man-hour...way more. the average grunt is working harder for the money, but their ceiling is higher. there are hospitalists in my area that round, then hitup 2 SNFs, they make significantly more than i do. i am not allowed to see patients on the weekdays, so theres a cap there."
Click to expand...
 
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lp430 said:
This thread reminds me of reading about people's STEP scores and thinking I would never get into residency lol. I'm actually really interested in how many true days off people get a month, especially those who are not nocturnists and have to deal with the back and forth switching. That is what I am trying to maximize these days.
Click to expand...
I get 7-10 days off a month. Months that I take a vacation up to 13. I plan my vacations to be at the end of the month/beginning of the month to allow for spreading it out.
 
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Splenda88 said:
I know but having the potential to even make 600k+ is big. I can only make ~500k as an IM doc even if I work really hard.

The system is unsustainable (too much waste), so I might as well make a lot of $$$ fast and not holding any bags (student loan) when everything blows up.
Click to expand...
You could probably get these numbers too. You just have to go PRN at many places. They will call you with offers to fill in for bonus money. I know multiple IM docs that do this and their pockets jingle and gold dust falls from their pant legs as they walk.

The system is unsustainable because too many people have their hands in the cookie jar (CMGs, shareholders, admin, etc).
 
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Most I ever worked was 135hrs/mo, and never felt like I was working too much eventhough my wife said she felt the tension during busy weeks. I always denied it but fast forward to now where I am working 3-4 dys/month by choice and I can see what she is talking about.

life is so much better when work has become more of a hobby than a job. Docs who don't what they could do with their time just hasn't cut down to know there are lots to do. I enjoy working out regularly, playing golf 2-3x/wk, seeing my kids all the time, spending time with the wife, always some house chores, more travelling, etc.

I always thought that I would work 4-6 dys a month b/c I "did not know what to do with my extra time" but man, I am seriously contemplating working 2 dys a month just to feel like I am not completely hanging things up.
 
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Porfirio said:
565, 723, 684, 767, 626 (out to Sept but projected ~830)

Don’t have records before this and would have to pull tax records from CPA.
Click to expand...
Social security has some record too depending on how you do your taxes how you get paid it could be accurate.
 
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lp430 said:
This thread reminds me of reading about people's STEP scores and thinking I would never get into residency lol. I'm actually really interested in how many true days off people get a month, especially those who are not nocturnists and have to deal with the back and forth switching. That is what I am trying to maximize these days.
Click to expand...
My true days off are few but plenty.. I barely work past midnight. I do a fair bit of admin work but my admin work is generally under my control. I have a few standing meetings per month.. but I can work clinically on those days if i want to. I took multiple vacations earlier this year. Gone for 8 days, 10 days and 10 days. I could have done literally nothing. Cancelled any meetings but chose to answer emails (very few). One thing that is unattractive about many of the admin jobs (like medical director ,Chief of Staff, etc) you never really get a day off. I can take a full day off whenever I want. The trickiest part is some of my closest friends are my fellow partners. If they text me, does that count as not taking a day off?
 
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emergentmd said:
Most I ever worked was 135hrs/mo, and never felt like I was working too much eventhough my wife said she felt the tension during busy weeks. I always denied it but fast forward to now where I am working 3-4 dys/month by choice and I can see what she is talking about.

life is so much better when work has become more of a hobby than a job. Docs who don't what they could do with their time just hasn't cut down to know there are lots to do. I enjoy working out regularly, playing golf 2-3x/wk, seeing my kids all the time, spending time with the wife, always some house chores, more travelling, etc.

I always thought that I would work 4-6 dys a month b/c I "did not know what to do with my extra time" but man, I am seriously contemplating working 2 dys a month just to feel like I am not completely hanging things up.
Click to expand...
I dont know. Maybe.. I just took 2 weeks off. Did nearly nothing work related. We traveled to Europe. Trip was great. Toward the end I was ready to get back to work. I cant figure out how to even mildly enjoy golf. By the time I get to 6-8 holes I am bored out of my mind and cant wait to be done. No amount of booze or lack thereof changes it for me. I spend time with my kids, I take them to their sports practices, coaching, attend all their events (I of course miss some), I travel. I clean up around the house, I pay the bills, arrange for contractors to do stuff, manage our finances etc. I got to the gym 3-4 days a week. Again, I think part of MY pathology is a need to always be productive. This has had negative impacts on me in some ways (perhaps like this discussion), but I cant stand wasting time. I take time to decompress and relax. I love playing sports, same for watching sports and live music.. But I do wonder if a mix of being an EM doc and the current world by ability to focus and let my brain not have a bunch of input is a skill I lost.
 
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Porfirio said:
You could probably get these numbers too. You just have to go PRN at many places. They will call you with offers to fill in for bonus money. I know multiple IM docs that do this and their pockets jingle and gold dust falls from their pant legs as they walk.

The system is unsustainable because too many people have their hands in the cookie jar (CMGs, shareholders, admin, etc).
Click to expand...
Hard to get these numbers in IM. There is no way I can make an additional 250k to get my income to 600k unless I work at least 25+ days/month. Most PRN hospitalist jobs pay $1800--2400 per shift.
 
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last year 1800 hrs = 150/month

last year was low/mid $600K all in (salary, profit sharing, benefits, etc)

currently partner SDG southeast

was about $400K pre-partner IIRC @~$200/hr plus benefits.

over all I feel fortunate
 
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TeddyBoomBoom said:
last year 1800 hrs = 150/month

last year was low/mid $600K all in (salary, profit sharing, benefits, etc)

currently partner SDG southeast

was about $400K pre-partner IIRC @~$200/hr plus benefits.

over all I feel fortunate
Click to expand...

The money has always been good in EM. It's just that the jobs sucks.
 
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For reference, those $600k+ jobs are about the ceiling for private equity retina jobs at 160 hours and 10+ pph
 
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I've been averaging 120-130 clinical hours plus 40 admin hours a month for the last few years plus 3 part-time jobs outside of medicine (Army that takes up about 30 days/year, a portrait photography business I'm expanding, and several short-term rental properties we've been developing).

For me, I'd get really bored if doing anything less and I still take my kids to school almost every day and rarely miss any of their other stuff, although our oldest is 7 so that may change in the future.

I think the key is how hard the EM job is. Fortunately, I have a pretty good one with a relatively low volume at a suburban level 3 and rural level 4 place with a pipeline for easy transfers when needed.
 
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