How much do you expect to make?

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Yadster101

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How much money do you expect to make after med school and residency?

If I become a psychiatrist, in the midwest, working 40 hours a week, I'd expect to make 210k w/ great benefits or ~245k w/o any benefits. Wbu?

Area of medicine:
Region:
Hours per week:
Expected salary:
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Great benefits are worth more than 35k
 
Things are damn uncertain right now with healthcare so I don't "expect" to make anything. With that said, I'll be starting med school at a (relatively) advanced age and won't start collecting attending paychecks until I'm in my early to mid thirties depending on the specialty, so monetary considerations are important.

I'd be fairly disappointed if my starting salary pre-tax was smaller than my debt load, which will probably end up being around 300k after residency. Assuming I do EM, which is what I'm currently leaning towards, I'd ideally like to work my ass off for at least $450k/year till I hit 40. If I decide to go/match into Ortho and take on that brutal and long residency, I'd be disappointed with anything less than a cool half a mil starting out and growing into high six figs in a few years. It may sound greedy but frankly, at that point I'd be damn near 40 and lets face it, at 40 you only have so many years left to enjoy living life before you hit the tending to petunias stage.

^^Caveat to the above expectations is that location is not very important to me, especially if I do something flexible like EM. If there is money to be made by geographical arbitrage in BFE, I'll more than happily go there.
 
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Lord Humongus said:
If I decide to go/match into Ortho and take on that brutal and long residency, I'd be disappointed with anything less than a cool half a mil starting out and growing into high six figs in a few years.
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Unless you're going into spinal, going into the upper six figures is pretty ambitious, and to be blunt starting at a half mil or higher is a pretty ridiculous standard to set: http://www.medscape.com/features/slideshow/compensation/2013/orthopedics

Anyway, my expectations:

Area: FM/Ortho
Region: Not the west or Northeast
Hours per week: 50-60
Expected Salary: 180k+ / 350k+
 
Yadster101 said:
How much money do you expect to make after med school and residency?

If I become a psychiatrist, in the midwest, working 40 hours a week, I'd expect to make 210k w/ great benefits or ~245k w/o any benefits. Wbu?

Area of medicine:
Region:
Hours per week:
Expected salary:
Click to expand...
Area of medicine: Emergency medicine
Region: Down Under
Hours per week: ~40
Expected salary: as resident ~$100k-$200k (only counting income, nothing else); as attending ~$350k-$450k (but this includes about $100k worth of benefits, etc)
 
Stagg737 said:
Unless you're going into spinal, going into the upper six figures is pretty ambitious, and to be blunt starting at a half mil or higher is a pretty ridiculous standard to set: http://www.medscape.com/features/slideshow/compensation/2013/orthopedics
Click to expand...

No, agree it is ambitious. I had set my bottom expectations at ~my debt burden, the half a mil figure was an ideal scenario that factored in an above average job in a highly undesirable location. According to the below link, the median starting salary for general ortho was at 416k in 2012. This is the median and includes academics and people working in NYC and San Francisco. I don't think it's completely outrageous to think that a 90th percentile starting salary in BFE could hit 500k if the median nationwide is >400k.

http://www.beckersspine.com/orthope...urgeon-compensation-by-years-in-practice.html

But either way, this is all mental masturbation. I'm at least 10 years away from hypothetically becoming an ortho attending. I'm not confident to predict that humans won't have been reduced to living in caves 10 years from now, let alone what physician salaries will be.
 
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For anyone students in the US trying to predict how much they will be making in the future, I suggest you take a look at Medscape's annual Physician Compensation Report: http://www.medscape.com/features/slideshow/compensation/2015/public/overview

However, as has been pointed out, if you are starting school now, you could be 10 years from actually practicing as an attending, and 10 years is a lot of time for compensation trends to change. At some point, procedure-based specialties and radiology are going to start seeing their salaries drop relative to other fields. So the person going into ortho and expecting a "cool half mil" immediately upon graduation from residency, may find that to look less and less likely.
 
Strongman1 said:
For anyone students in the US trying to predict how much they will be making in the future, I suggest you take a look at Medscape's annual Physician Compensation Report: http://www.medscape.com/features/slideshow/compensation/2015/public/overview

However, as has been pointed out, if you are starting school now, you could be 10 years from actually practicing as an attending, and 10 years is a lot of time for compensation trends to change. At some point, procedure-based specialties and radiology are going to start seeing their salaries drop relative to other fields. So the person going into ortho and expecting a "cool half mil" immediately upon graduation from residency, may find that to look less and less likely.
Click to expand...

FWIW, medscape is lower than all of the companies in Modern Healthcare's amalgamated survey.

Here is the MGMA's data on starting salary https://www.aamc.org/download/399576/data/startingsalariesforphysicians.pdf
 
Area of medicine: dermatology
Region: not the northeast
Hours per week: 40-50
Expected salary: 250+ (I hope)
 
PatsyStone said:
Area of medicine: dermatology
Region: not the northeast
Hours per week: 40-50
Expected salary: 250+ (I hope)
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For those hours in that specialty, I'm not sure it's possible to make <250.
 
Tri723 said:
Medscape is a joke of a salary survey. You can take that to the bank (figuratively and literally) . I know people (tons) signing starting contracts higher that the proposed average on medscape in almost every specialty .

Dont count on medscape.
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That's not so bad, is it? I think a conservative estimate is almost always better when making plans with money. Or are the estimates by Medscape so grossly understated?
 
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matchmeifyoucan said:
That's not so bad, is it? I think a conservative estimate is almost always better when making plans with money. Or are the estimates by Medscape so grossly understated?
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from what i've seen its not that its "grossly understated," but rather it simply doesn't take into account that if you want to make a lot more than what's on Medscape, its almost always possible. i.e. for someone who wants to make money, why use a survey that includes people who work assistant professor at an academic institution and see a third of the patients and have little ancillary revenue streams and never make partner?

Hope that makes sense.
 
Area of medicine: derm
Region: southeast
Hours per week: 35-40
Expected salary: 375+
 
Ive always been a hope for the best prepare for the worst so I suppose thats more like a bare minimum I would be willing to take, but ideally I want to have a family and actually spend time with them. So whatever allows me to live comfortably, take nice vacations, and spend lots of time with family would be great! But my future is still very unclear.
 
Area of medicine: general surgery
Region: California or Colorado. Maybe Washington State
Hours per week: 60
Expected salary: $300,000 plus benefits
 
Realistically. Unless you are in a specialty where you can hammer out multiple procedures per day or very very quick clinic visits. Most you of can probably expect to make 200-350 working 40-60 hours per week. Regardless of what you decide to do. And that's probably working 14 to 20 days per month. And it's not that people can't hammer out more work and get more from production but my guess is most of won't want too after a certain point. There are outliers, anecdotes, and spine surgery. The days of ridiculously high salaries are over. You'll get paid well to do what you do but expect to get paid for EXACTLY what you do and not what you could do or for "availability" in most markets. Also. Most of you will be employees by the time you are done. Well paid wage slaves. The days of the private group contracting in are also dying - they can't compete. I wouldn't recommend expecting to be a partner of anything in "5-10 years after being done with training". And. Yes. Outlier jobs. Anecdotes. Yes. Hope you can find one if that's what you want.

I still think it's solid, honest, and good work. All of it. God bless primary care.
 
I'll play.

Area of Medicine: Not sure yet but leaning toward procedural IM specialties

Region: West or Midwest

Hours per week: 50-60

Expected salary: Something that will pay off my debt and still put me above average (but hoping for 250k inflation adjusted)
 
bashwell said:
Area of medicine: Emergency medicine
Region: Down Under
Hours per week: ~40
Expected salary: as resident ~$100k-$200k (only counting income, nothing else); as attending ~$350k-$450k (but this includes about $100k worth of benefits, etc)
Click to expand...

Do residents make that much in Australia?
 
FindMeOnTheLinks said:
I'll bite. Here's what I'm hoping:

Area of Medicine: ENT

Region: Suburban Minnesota or northeast Iowa or southwest Florida

Hours per week: 50-60, plus free clinic

Expected salary: $350,000
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I love the specificity and randomness in the locations
 
qw098 said:
Why those particular regions?
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Haha well, I am originally from the suburbs of Minneapolis and most of my family lives there. I think I might actually want to go a bit more rural in Minnesota (maybe one of the bigger towns up in cabin country or even Duluth) but we'll see. I went to college in a small town in NE Iowa and it's just beautiful there, really a hidden gem, and I would love to live there too. Probably will have a home there after I retire for sure. As for southwest Florida, a lot of my family also lives there and I do love the weather as well as the great golf courses and salt-water fishing.

So I have really grown attached to all three of these regions and it's going to be damn hard to make a decision on where I want to live. Maybe it will be all three. Maybe it will be somewhere completely different. I guess I'll just go where the wind blows me, I know I'll enjoy it wherever I end up.
 
Area of medicine: Psychiatry
Region: South FL
Hours per week: 50
Expected salary: 275k-300k

Hopefully that salary is possible. Otherwise I will be eating ramon noodle a few years after residency due to my projected outrageous 275k student loan.
 
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Ibn Alnafis MD said:
Do residents make that much in Australia?
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Yup they can, especially as a senior resident/registrar. 🙂 (In Australia a resident is known as a registrar). In general you get paid for overtime, extra for nights and weekends, etc. The $200k is pushing it a bit but if you have lots of overtime, locums, etc, then yup you can make that much.
 
kirbymiester said:
Area of medicine: Radiology
Region: West of Texas
Hours per week: 60
Expected salary: $300k
Click to expand...
We'll work together one day Bee.

bashwell said:
Area of medicine: Emergency medicine
Region: Down Under
Hours per week: ~40
Expected salary: as resident ~$100k-$200k (only counting income, nothing else); as attending ~$350k-$450k (but this includes about $100k worth of benefits, etc)
Click to expand...
450k AUD is 320k USD. Still pretty good, is this what EPs make around Sydney or in smaller city?

I'll play.
Area of medicine: EM
Region: Lone Star
Hours per week: 40-60
Expected salary: $300k+
 
kenjixshadow said:
We'll work together one day Bee.


450k AUD is 320k USD. Still pretty good, is this what EPs make around Sydney or in smaller city?

I'll play.
Area of medicine: EM
Region: Lone Star
Hours per week: 40-60
Expected salary: $300k+
Click to expand...

how many ED docs actually work 40-60 hours a week?
 
PL198 said:
how many ED docs actually work 40-60 hours a week?
Click to expand...
Mainly new graduates. Once they are established like WCI, they start cuting to 30- hrs a week.
 
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Tri723 said:
Medscape is a joke of a salary survey. You can take that to the bank (figuratively and literally) . I know people (tons) signing starting contracts higher that the proposed average on medscape in almost every specialty .

Dont count on medscape.
Click to expand...

The Medscape compensation report does not list "proposed" averages - it is real averages based on 20,000 respondents. And it is certainly more accurate than the "tons" of people you know. (data >> anecdotal evidence).

I suggest you check your attitude before interviews or you'll be lucky to match in anything.
 
Strongman1 said:
The Medscape compensation report does not list "proposed" averages - it is real averages based on 20,000 respondents. And it is certainly more accurate than the "tons" of people you know. (data >> anecdotal evidence).

I suggest you check your attitude before interviews or you'll be lucky to match in anything.
Click to expand...

I'll trust anecdotal evidence over data any day. None of the medscape numbers match up with anything I'm hearing in real life. They aren't even close. What are the hours worked? Are your precious data points coming from numbers that include benefits? What about goodies for the family like paying for tuition for kids? Bonuses? Etc
 
Area of medicine: Anesthesia but heavily business focused
Region: Tex-Ok
Hours per week: 40-60
Expected salary: $1-2 milly
 
Strongman1 said:
The Medscape compensation report does not list "proposed" averages - it is real averages based on 20,000 respondents. And it is certainly more accurate than the "tons" of people you know. (data >> anecdotal evidence).

I suggest you check your attitude before interviews or you'll be lucky to match in anything.
Click to expand...
Aren't these medscape numbers self reported? Come on! Most people won't report their real number... What did he say to warrant that scolding?
 
Psai said:
I'll trust anecdotal evidence over data any day. None of the medscape numbers match up with anything I'm hearing in real life. They aren't even close. What are the hours worked? Are your precious data points coming from numbers that include benefits? What about goodies for the family like paying for tuition for kids? Bonuses? Etc
Click to expand...
Ditto...excluding academic, numbers ive heard are in line with mgma, so before I check my attitude like someone suggested above, i'd rather check a more reliable survey like mgma.
 
Tri723 said:
Medscape is a joke of a salary survey. You can take that to the bank (figuratively and literally) . I know people (tons) signing starting contracts higher that the proposed average on medscape in almost every specialty .

Dont count on medscape.

Compensation: hope for 700k max out

Specialty: whatever's highly marketable and maxes out my credentials for matching
Region: wherever the business brings me
Hours: towards the beginning, as many as possible...after establishing, up to 55-60
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plane or boat?
 
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Whats up Doc! said:
Ive always been a hope for the best prepare for the worst so I suppose thats more like a bare minimum I would be willing to take, but ideally I want to have a family and actually spend time with them. So whatever allows me to live comfortably, take nice vacations, and spend lots of time with family would be great! But my future is still very unclear.
Click to expand...

I'm the same way. I'll take a 40 hour week making 180-200k over a 60 hour week making 250-275k. Obviously I'd like more money, but I'd also like to be able to spend some time with my family and not have to be ghost dad while my kids are growing up.
 
kenjixshadow said:
We'll work together one day Bee.


450k AUD is 320k USD. Still pretty good, is this what EPs make around Sydney or in smaller city?

I'll play.
Area of medicine: EM
Region: Lone Star
Hours per week: 40-60
Expected salary: $300k+
Click to expand...
Yup, the exchange rate definitely matters if you're back and forth between Oz and USA etc. But purchasing power within Australia is still quite high.

It's what EPs make as staff specialists (sort of similar ish to being an academic attending, usually working at a teaching hospital) which could be in any big city like Sydney or Melbourne but also in smaller cities or regional centres too.

But in general I'd say you'll get paid better in the US for EM. And I don't personally know but I hear TX is one of the best for EM salaries, especially with FSEDs? But Australia ain't so bad. You have to look at what's best for you obviously. There are some things that are more important than money. For example, rarely if ever having to work overnight again, better practice environment in terms of medico legal stuff, friendly patients where people tend to say thank you and please, more reasonable CME, no Press Ganey or other performance measures or not as common at least, the Aussie healthcare system has its issues but it seems more stable currently than back home in the US where there's more uncertainty about what's coming in the future either with the ACA or whatever its replacement will be in the future, etc. I'm completely generalising and there are huge exceptions both ways but very generally speaking I'd say the US is better for money but Australia for lifestyle as a physician.
 
W19 said:
Aren't these medscape numbers self reported? Come on! Most people won't report their real number... What did he say to warrant that scolding?
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Why in the world would a doctor, who volunteered to participate in an anonymous survey, not report their real salary? And the scolding was because any med student who expects a salary of 700k is either entitled, not with both feet in reality, or both - especially with significant uncertainty with future compensation for US doctors in general.
 
Strongman1 said:
Why in the world would a doctor, who volunteered to participate in an anonymous survey, not report their real salary? And the scolding was because any med student who expects a salary of 700k is either entitled, not with both feet in reality, or both - especially with significant uncertainty with future compensation for US doctors in general.
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just so you understand, i'm not planning for working for a "salary" in the future. My career path and track is different from what you think. Can't say here because people on SDN from my school will immediately know who it is. I never said I "expected" that amount. It's something that i would like to achieve although. I think it's ok to set goals. People may not necessarily want to answer what they truly earn on Medscape because it sets off a hater alarm and others will proceed to try to cut it down, without understanding the effort required before. There's also a problem in that those numbers come from extremely heterogenous jobs. You arn't comparing equal to equal. Whatever, no sense in further arguing. I've got stuff to study. good luck to you.
 
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Strongman1 said:
So says a future doctor... [sigh]
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Yeah because I'm going to be a doctor. Just because someone wrote something in some journal doesn't make it the word of god. Does the author have any financial or other conflicts? Is the study well designed? Is the sample size adequate? Does the data relate to my patient population? Is it reliable? Will it change my practice? I'm seriously doubting that you are an attending
 
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