How much do you save/invest every year?

[Splenda88]

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I just did my tentative attending budget plan and I realized that I will only be able save/invest 80-85k/yr (on a 330k/yr salary)? Is that even good considering I plan to be FI in 10-12 yrs.

I might have to pick up some extra shifts because the goal was to save/invest 100k+/yr.

How much you guys/gals save/invest every year?

 

[sylvanthus]

About 110ish roughly if you include job matching. I did awesome my first year with extra 10-99 income, but am starting to drop down more than id like given the lack of ED shifts.

Plan this year is 40k ish into 401k/457, 20k matching, 50k index funds, and whatever I can into soloK. So ill likely hit about 115ish realistically.

 

[bravotwozero]

120k per year for the last few years. Hoping to keep it that way.

 

[Splenda88]

About 110ish roughly if you include job matching. I did awesome my first year with extra 10-99 income, but am starting to drop down more than id like given the lack of ED shifts.

Plan this year is 40k ish into 401k/457, 20k matching, 50k index funds, and whatever I can into soloK. So ill likely hit about 115ish realistically.

My company does not offer a match. The amount in taxes that the government is taking from one's paycheck is outrageous. I was shocked to see that my take home pay will be only 55% of my gross after all deductions (taxes, medical/dental, Roth 401k, 529b, LTD insurance etc...)


How many years have you been an attending?

 

[Splenda88]

120k per year for the last few years. Hoping to keep it that way.

That is great. What's your yearly salary?

 

[sylvanthus]

My company does offer a match. The amount in taxes that the government is taking from one's paycheck is outrageous. I was shocked to see that my take home pay will be only 55% of my gross after all deductions (taxes, medical/dental, Roth 401k, 529b, LTD insurance etc...)


How many years have you been an attending?

Two

 

[emergentmd]

If you are saving 80k/yr, you are doing a really good job and should get to Fire in 10 yrs esp if market continues to go up.

I typically saved 100K/yr since attending but last few yrs prob 3-400

 

[Splenda88]

If you are saving 80k/yr, you are doing a really good job and should get to Fire in 10 yrs esp if market continues to go up.

I typically saved 100K/yr since attending but last few yrs prob 3-400

300-400k/yr! That's really impressive.

 

[Splenda88]

Two

You probably have another 8-10 yrs to become FI if you continue with that pace.

 

[Bobblehead]

I just did my tentative attending budget plan and I realized that I will only be able save/invest 80-85k/yr (on a 330k/yr salary)? Is that even good considering I plan to be FI in 10-12 yrs.

I might have to pick up some extra shifts because the goal was to save/invest 100k+/yr.

How much you guys/gals save/invest every year?

I think you might consider living more below your means if it really matters that much to you to hit a specific number for savings. Using your numbers of 55% take home after taxes and deductions including the 401k and 529 that means you are taking home 181.5k per year. If you take an additional 85k off for investments that leaves you about $8000 a month to live off of to cover a mortgage, car, food, utilities, insurance and fun.

However including the 401k and 529 which you indicate leave your check as part of the 45% you're not taking home, you're already over 100k in savings. If it really matters to get to 100k of investments that come after your paycheck gets deposited to your account then you need to reduce your living expenses to $6700 a month which would be a $1300 per month reduction.

Since this is your "attending" budget I'm assuming your current monthly outlay is far lower and you are now projecting that your monthly expenses are dramatically increasing for some reason.

 

[Splenda88]

I think you might consider living more below your means if it really matters that much to you to hit a specific number for savings. Using your numbers of 55% take home after taxes and deductions including the 401k and 529 that means you are taking home 181.5k per year. If you take an additional 85k off for investments that leaves you about $8000 a month to live off of to cover a mortgage, car, food, utilities, insurance and fun.

However including the 401k and 529 which you indicate leave your check as part of the 45% you're not taking home, you're already over 100k in savings. If it really matters to get to 100k of investments that come after your paycheck gets deposited to your account then you need to reduce your living expenses to $6700 a month which would be a $1300 per month reduction.

Since this is your "attending" budget I'm assuming your current monthly outlay is far lower and you are now projecting that your monthly expenses are dramatically increasing for some reason.

The 80-85k/yr includes 401k, 529. Student loan repayment which is a huge expense is part of the budget as well. I will try to pick up extra shifts to reach that 100k+

 

[sylvanthus]

I wouldnt go tooooo nuts with saving and living like a resident. Who knows what the market is gonna do and youve gotta live lift also.

I, personally, still bought a nice house, spend money on fixing it up, bought a decent car, etc etc.

You can both save and live alittle.

 

[Splenda88]

I wouldnt go tooooo nuts with saving and living like a resident. Who knows what the market is gonna do and youve gotta live lift also.

I, personally, still bought a nice house, spend money on fixing it up, bought a decent car, etc etc.

You can both save and live alittle.

I will 'upgrade' from living on 50k/yr to 100k (not including student loan repayment). Gotta spend a little more on the family.

 

[doctalaughs]

I just did my tentative attending budget plan and I realized that I will only be able save/invest 80-85k/yr (on a 330k/yr salary)? Is that even good considering I plan to be FI in 10-12 yrs.

I might have to pick up some extra shifts because the goal was to save/invest 100k+/yr.

How much you guys/gals save/invest every year?

Save about 120k/yr (albeit off a higher income). But also about 6 month left on a pretty high mortgage so probably will boost that to 180k/yr shortly.

Also plan to work at least 25 years total so not skimping on spending right now. If I planned my career to be much shorter I would definitely be more tight with the spending (would target closer to 40% saved instead of 20%).

 

[FutureInternist]

About 110ish roughly if you include job matching. I did awesome my first year with extra 10-99 income, but am starting to drop down more than id like given the lack of ED shifts.

Plan this year is 40k ish into 401k/457, 20k matching, 50k index funds, and whatever I can into soloK. So ill likely hit about 115ish realistically.

Don’t forget HSA, 529 (if kids and they will go to college).

Also, should have 3-6 months saved as an Emergency Fund.

 

[Mman]

I just did my tentative attending budget plan and I realized that I will only be able save/invest 80-85k/yr (on a 330k/yr salary)? Is that even good considering I plan to be FI in 10-12 yrs.

I might have to pick up some extra shifts because the goal was to save/invest 100k+/yr.

How much you guys/gals save/invest every year?

Ballparking it, if you get paid $330K per year you are probably taking home about $240K per year. Saving 33% of that after tax amount is not bad. Although that means you are living on about 160K per year. Saving 80K per year for 10 years will leave you with something on the order of $1.2M or so assuming 8% ish returns. With a 3% SWR, $1.2M will only provide you with around $40K per year of income which is only 1/4 of what you are currently living on. So definitely premature to think that will make you financially independent unless after 10 years you can drastically slash your expenses.

How much raw $$$ someone saves isn't really relevant to your particular situation since income can drastically vary. Living expenses are far more independent of salary, though still dependent on location quite a bit.

My current annual spend is roughly broken down annually as follows....

Mortgage + property taxes: 40K
2 kids private school: 25K
Miscellaneous (groceries+utilities+insurance+cell phones+lawn care+TV+internet+etc): 100K
vacations + other fun stuff: 30K
student loans: 20K

So for me once you subtract out the kid expenses and mortgage and student loans, my wife and I probably spend around $125K to 150K per year or so which likely requires around $4-6M or so to sustain indefinitely depending on the particulars of taxes. Once we get in the neighborhood of $5M retirement assets (excluding home) and kids education is paid for I will greatly slow down working since that could probably keep us going forever.

I suggest you do a similar analysis where you figure out what your current spending level is and what you project it to be in retirement and then after that you can start to determine how much money you eventually need.

 

[FutureInternist]

Miscellaneous (groceries+utilities+insurance+cell phones+lawn care+TV+internet+etc): 100K

wait…. What!?!?!

 

[sylvanthus]

Don’t forget HSA, 529 (if kids and they will go to college).

Also, should have 3-6 months saved as an Emergency Fund.

Ya im doing about 10k in a 529 each year. Cant do a HSA as took a higher tier health plan due to 4 kids.

 

[Splenda88]

@Mman

My take home will be ~180k after all deductions (Taxes, 401k, HSA, 529, medical/dental/vision, disability insurances etc...). I think I can try to tighten the budget a little bit in order to bring the saving/investing to 90k/yr. Student loan repayment will take a big chunk out of my take home pay (~24k/yr).

 

[Splenda88]

Ya im doing about 10k in a 529 each year. Cant do a HSA as took a higher tier health plan due to 4 kids.

Will do about the same for 2 kids since my kids are older.

 

[FutureInternist]

Ya im doing about 10k in a 529 each year. Cant do a HSA as took a higher tier health plan due to 4 kids.

From my understanding, as long as you are enrolled in a “High Deductible Health Plan” you would be eligible for an HSA.

 

[Chemist0157]

We currently spend about 120K annually, but once loans are paid off, I should be able to save/invest 150K (conservative number). I actually nerded out and made my own retirement calculator as I was making a DCF calculator anyway. Just need to accumulate 3.5M by 45 or 4M by 50 and be set. Hopefully, I have more by then as a cushion in case there is a badly timed crash/correction.

 

[Monocles]

Was averaging about 22k a year during five years of training. Hoping to save 120k a year as an attending!

EDIT: also, just discovered SDN has a finance forum after being here for 10 years.. also most of yall are psych lmao!

 

[emergentmd]

wait…. What!?!?!

groceries+utilities+insurance+cell phones+lawn care+TV+internet+etc): 100K

This is my estimate and seems quite reasonable. This is 70K for me. I am sure I could find 30k easily in the misc to get to 100k. Consumables alone would be close to 30K.

Groceries/eating out family of 5 - 40k
insurance/healthcare - 10K
Utilities (gas/water/waste/electric) - 10K
Lawn care - 2k
Internet - 1k
TV - 1K
Cell phone - 3k

 

[Splenda88]

Was averaging about 22k a year during five years of training. Hoping to save 120k a year as an attending!

EDIT: also, just discovered SDN has a finance forum after being here for 10 years.. also most of yall are psych lmao!

How were you able to save 22k/yr during training?

 

[Mman]

wait…. What!?!?!

I'm adding in the etc.

Our credit card bill is basically about 100K per year which includes all the stuff I listed plus everything else you randomly buy throughout the year. Clothes, shoes, gas, whatever. Just normal day to day living stuff that we purchase without thinking about it.

 

[Monocles]

How were you able to save 22k/yr during training?

Our residency salary was a bit higher than the national average due to making up for VHCOL in Boston. I was paid 60k-80k during my five years. This ended up being about 4k post tax each month so I had a lot to work with.

Rent+utilities (splitting with wife) ~$1200 for me
Commute $300-400
Food $300-400
Other expenses, entertainment etc $0-$500

This ended up with me saving about an average of close to $2k a month each year. During covid my commute costs and entertainment costs were nearly 0 so was saving an average of $3k a month out of my $4k takehome lol

 

[doctalaughs]

I'm adding in the etc.

Our credit card bill is basically about 100K per year which includes all the stuff I listed plus everything else you randomly buy throughout the year. Clothes, shoes, gas, whatever. Just normal day to day living stuff that we purchase without thinking about it.

Yep, most people don’t realize how much they spend in the “etc” category but just look at your credit cards.

Mine is roughly:
- save 120k
- mortgage 65k
- food/entertainment 40k
- vacations travel 45k
- insurance/cars 20k
- 529 12k
- etc 120k- in this category includes lessons, toys, phones, computers/electronics, home projects/improvements, maintenance, lawn/trees and much more stuff I’m not thinking of.

 

[Mman]

Yep, most people don’t realize how much they spend in the “etc” category but just look at your credit cards.

we pay essentially everything on credit cards so it is quite easy to see what we spend both month to month and year over year. I just file that under normal expenses of living current lifestyle. Obviously can be adjusted down if needed, but the spending is what it is right now.

 

[Nocturnist]

I just did my tentative attending budget plan and I realized that I will only be able save/invest 80-85k/yr (on a 330k/yr salary)? Is that even good considering I plan to be FI in 10-12 yrs.

I might have to pick up some extra shifts because the goal was to save/invest 100k+/yr.

How much you guys/gals save/invest every year?

I max out a 403b and 457 at 19k each a year, employer contributes another 14k per year, and i put another 6k a year to Roth IRA so 58k a year total into retirement. Whatever extra I have left I pretty much split evenly between real estate (I've paid 1/3rd of my 15 yr mortgage in the past year, and just bought a beach house as well) and my brokerage account (cost average investing around $500 a day into 7-8 ETFs).

I dont budget or put any thought into how much I save or invest, the only thing I look at is my net worth which I try to calculate every month or so to make sure its growing at the same pace more or less.

I've found that my net worth has roughly consistently grown at 50% of my gross income. I keep around 100-150k in cash, rest is almost evenly split between stocks/retirement and real estate.

I'm not planning to retire early, but it would be nice to be financially independent enough in the next few years to not have to think twice about dropping to 0.5 FTEs if I wanted to travel more or spend more time with my family

 

[Nocturnist]

How were you able to save 22k/yr during training?

My residency program auto-deducted 11% of our resident salary into the state's retirement fund. We didn't have any say in the matter, but at the end of residency we were given the choice to cash it out or roll it over. After 3 years I had 16k saved in retirement. I'm glad I rolled it over as opposed to cash it out and take the penalty hit. 5 years later its grown to nearly 30k.

 

[Monocles]

My residency program auto-deducted 11% of our resident salary into the state's retirement fund. We didn't have any say in the matter, but at the end of residency we were given the choice to cash it out or roll it over. After 3 years I had 16k saved in retirement. I'm glad I rolled it over as opposed to cash it out and take the penalty hit. 5 years later its grown to nearly 30k.

Did they offer any matching %?

In some ways this is good lol. I have classmates from training who lived paycheck to paycheck despite making EXACTLY the same as me and also having their parents give them a monthly "lifestyle stipend".

 

[Nocturnist]

Did they offer any matching %?

In some ways this is good lol. I have classmates from training who lived paycheck to paycheck despite making EXACTLY the same as me and also having their parents give them a monthly "lifestyle stipend".

Nope, not at all- but if you stuck around and worked in the state system for a decade you were eligible for state pension. I dont know the details of this, but alot of people in fellowships or longer residencies stuck around the medical system for a few more years for this perk.

I definitely lived paycheck to paycheck in residency until I got my unrestricted license 3rd year and moonlit my butt off. I made more than my attendings and paid all my loans off by the end of residency. I was lucky enough to live in a relatively low cost of living area for residency, and was smart enough to buy an apartment during residency rather than rent. It's nearly doubled in value since then and now I rent it out with a good ROI.

 

[Splenda88]

I max out a 403b and 457 at 19k each a year, employer contributes another 14k per year, and i put another 6k a year to Roth IRA so 58k a year total into retirement. Whatever extra I have left I pretty much split evenly between real estate (I've paid 1/3rd of my 15 yr mortgage in the past year, and just bought a beach house as well) and my brokerage account (cost average investing around $500 a day into 7-8 ETFs).

I dont budget or put any thought into how much I save or invest, the only thing I look at is my net worth which I try to calculate every month or so to make sure its growing at the same pace more or less.

I've found that my net worth has roughly consistently grown at 50% of my gross income. I keep around 100-150k in cash, rest is almost evenly split between stocks/retirement and real estate.

I'm not planning to retire early, but it would be nice to be financially independent enough in the next few years to not have to think twice about dropping to 0.5 FTEs if I wanted to travel more or spend more time with my family

You basically save/invest ~200k/yr. That is a remarkable amount. Salary > 400k/yr or significant other makes also 6-figure?

 

[Nocturnist]

You basically save/invest ~200k/yr. That is a remarkable amount. Salary > 400k/yr or significant other makes also 6-figure?

I would say thats somewhere around how much I save, probably closer to 300k a year but I honestly don't keep track. Some of the money I use for the brokerage account comes from my cash reserves, since I'm trying to get out of cash because its just collecting dust sitting in the bank. I find its too much work to keep track of my saving and more relevant to keep track of my NW. I make 550k a year, SO makes 6 figures as well.

 

[doctalaughs]

I would say thats somewhere around how much I save, probably closer to 300k a year but I honestly don't keep track. Some of the money I use for the brokerage account comes from my cash reserves, since I'm trying to get out of cash because its just collecting dust sitting in the bank. I find its too much work to keep track of my saving and more relevant to keep track of my NW. I make 550k a year, SO makes 6 figures as well.

Good job.

What net worth “number” are you shooting for before pulling back significantly or not working? Career length plan?

 

[Nocturnist]

Good job.

What net worth “number” are you shooting for before pulling back significantly or not working? Career length plan?

Great question. Not shooting for any number in particular but I'd say around 5m would be a wild guess and a comfortable number. Between the SO and I we're around halfway.
No career length plan- i enjoy my job and would like to keep doing it, would just be nice to rest easy knowing I can cut down to as much as I want someday and not worry about paying the bills.

 

[Splenda88]

Great question. Not shooting for any number in particular but I'd say around 5m would be a wild guess and a comfortable number. Between the SO and I we're around halfway.
No career length plan- i enjoy my job and would like to keep doing it, would just be nice to rest easy knowing I can cut down to as much as I want someday and not worry about paying the bills.

You can pretty much semi retired and call it a day. Your net worth will double in 7-10 yrs even if you stop investing. It's great that you enjoy your job.

How long did it take you and SO after residency to achieve that net worth?

 

[Nocturnist]

You can pretty much semi retired and call it a day. Your net worth will double in 7-10 yrs even if you stop investing. It's great that you enjoy your job.

How long did it take you and SO after residency to achieve that net worth?

I'm 5 yrs post residency.
I'm including my real estate equity in my nw (as i think I should) though its both much less liquid and i dont necessarily count on it doubling every 7-10 yrs. When you folks talk about that "number" are you referring to just the amount you have in investments or your total nw?
Im not planning to liquidate my primary residence or my beach house as I'd like to keep enjoying them, so while they contribute to my nw I'm not totally sure how they'll play into cash flow for future (semi)retirement (other than being paid off some day therefore decreasing my COL since I'm rent/mortgage free)

 

[kratos99]

I’m in Canada, family medicine.
I was able to save on average 12k month (CAD) usually my first few years in practice. I’m 41 this year, two kids, wife stays at home and our net worth is 4.5m (CAD) around 3.6m USD. With dividends last month I invested about 20k but that was more than usual as I got a large refund. I usually am able to invest 7-10k a month now as I cut down on my hours and have more expenses with kids.
My clinic income gets taxed at only 15% here in Canada and I get to write off a bunch of stuff. That plus there are no health care expenses, private school expenses etc. But the first few years in practice we really pinched-like I biked to work, had only one car, no cable, ate in etc.

 

[Splenda88]

I'm 5 yrs post residency.
I'm including my real estate equity in my nw (as i think I should) though its both much less liquid and i dont necessarily count on it doubling every 7-10 yrs. When you folks talk about that "number" are you referring to just the amount you have in investments or your total nw?
Im not planning to liquidate my primary residence or my beach house as I'd like to keep enjoying them, so while they contribute to my nw I'm not totally sure how they'll play into cash flow for future (semi)retirement (other than being paid off some day therefore decreasing my COL since I'm rent/mortgage free)

Equity on your home(s) is part of your NW. That "number" is the total NW.

 

[doctalaughs]

Great question. Not shooting for any number in particular but I'd say around 5m would be a wild guess and a comfortable number. Between the SO and I we're around halfway.
No career length plan- i enjoy my job and would like to keep doing it, would just be nice to rest easy knowing I can cut down to as much as I want someday and not worry about paying the bills.

You can probably set your sights higher than that. If you really save close to 300k/yr and plan to work a full career could easily generate 20M+. You should likely be at 5M in 5 more years unless there is a big correction.

I save far less — and have significantly more than 5M net worth (albeit being ~ 15 years out, and planning to work 10 more full time minimum).

 

[Mman]

Equity on your home(s) is part of your NW. That "number" is the total NW.

while your home is obviously part of your net worth, unless you are moving out and renting it is not part of your retirement savings and it will not compound in value at the same rate as investments (unless you get insanely lucky in the right market, but even then you still can't get rid of it so does not contribute to retirement income).

For retirement planning purposes, I solely focus on my retirement assets and my projected expenses. That's it. The kids 529 plans have nothing to do with my retirement, nor does the value of my home except in that if paid off it means I have no mortgage/rent in retirement. And while in some time frames retirement assets have doubled every 7-10 years, very little chance that happens in the near future especially if you consider after inflation returns (which is all you should care about). I think a real return of 4-6% is most likely which would mean doubling every 12-18 years and not 7-10 years.

 

[kratos99]

while your home is obviously part of your net worth, unless you are moving out and renting it is not part of your retirement savings and it will not compound in value at the same rate as investments (unless you get insanely lucky in the right market, but even then you still can't get rid of it so does not contribute to retirement income).

For retirement planning purposes, I solely focus on my retirement assets and my projected expenses. That's it. The kids 529 plans have nothing to do with my retirement, nor does the value of my home except in that if paid off it means I have no mortgage/rent in retirement. And while in some time frames retirement assets have doubled every 7-10 years, very little chance that happens in the near future especially if you consider after inflation returns (which is all you should care about). I think a real return of 4-6% is most likely which would mean doubling every 12-18 years and not 7-10 years.

It depends on the market. But I agree. Even in the hottest real estate markets a home generally won’t grow in value as fast as an index fund. The exception is if you leverage insanely. You CAN use your home as an ATM though using HELOC If desperate and can always sell and downsize to liquidate the capital. And of course you save on rent but have to pay property taxes and maintenance.

 

[Nocturnist]

while your home is obviously part of your net worth, unless you are moving out and renting it is not part of your retirement savings and it will not compound in value at the same rate as investments (unless you get insanely lucky in the right market, but even then you still can't get rid of it so does not contribute to retirement income).

For retirement planning purposes, I solely focus on my retirement assets and my projected expenses. That's it. The kids 529 plans have nothing to do with my retirement, nor does the value of my home except in that if paid off it means I have no mortgage/rent in retirement. And while in some time frames retirement assets have doubled every 7-10 years, very little chance that happens in the near future especially if you consider after inflation returns (which is all you should care about). I think a real return of 4-6% is most likely which would mean doubling every 12-18 years and not 7-10 years.

Agree that it doesn't contribute as easily to retirement income as investments or cash, although living mortgage/rent free greatly decreases your cost of living, so maybe instead of 200k in retirement now you only need 100k (plus then your net worth continues to climb with your home's appreciation). Push comes to shove, can relatively easily tap the equity with a HELOC.

While real estate has historically appreciated slower than the stock market, the leveraging any average Joe can achieve in real estate can yield much higher returns. A house purchased with 20% down appreciating at 4% a year is a 20% return on your investment. My primary home appreciated 15% this year which means a 75% return on my down payment. While I certainly don't anticipate that pace continuing, I do think looking at the scarcity of any available homes in my area, lack of new construction, and low mortgage rates the next few years, 6-8% is quite reasonable next few years.

Anyway, I consider real estate to be a healthy and frankly a really enjoyable way to diversify. There's no enjoyment to be gained from ETFs, but I'm on cloud 9 every time I'm at my beach house.

 

[Mman]

Agree that it doesn't contribute as easily to retirement income as investments or cash, although living mortgage/rent free greatly decreases your cost of living, so maybe instead of 200k in retirement now you only need 100k (plus then your net worth continues to climb with your home's appreciation). Push comes to shove, can relatively easily tap the equity with a HELOC.

While real estate has historically appreciated slower than the stock market, the leveraging any average Joe can achieve in real estate can yield much higher returns. A house purchased with 20% down appreciating at 4% a year is a 20% return on your investment. My primary home appreciated 15% this year which means a 75% return on my down payment. While I certainly don't anticipate that pace continuing, I do think looking at the scarcity of any available homes in my area, lack of new construction, and low mortgage rates the next few years, 6-8% is quite reasonable next few years.

Anyway, I consider real estate to be a healthy and frankly a really enjoyable way to diversify. There's no enjoyment to be gained from ETFs, but I'm on cloud 9 every time I'm at my beach house.

the benefit of owning your home in retirement is not the net worth of the home, it's the reduction in expenses from not having a mortgage or rent as well as whatever happiness you derive from that home.

My point isn't to not own your own home, it's that the value of it in your net worth shouldn't really be thought of as the same part of your retirement savings that fund spending in retirement. Having a net worth of $5M when $3M of it is tied up in a house leads to a bit different spending in retirement than the same net worth with $500K in a house and $4.5M in stocks/bonds.

 

[emergentmd]

I consider your homestead part of your net worth, similar to any investment property.

If your home is worth $1M, and you paid it off then you have alot of Cash to do whatever you want. Sell it, buy a 300K home. HELOC. Refinance and pull out 600K.

I would never recommend taking a loan against your home but it carries the same potential as any other investment property.

 

[emergentmd]

It depends on the market. But I agree. Even in the hottest real estate markets a home generally won’t grow in value as fast as an index fund. The exception is if you leverage insanely. You CAN use your home as an ATM though using HELOC If desperate and can always sell and downsize to liquidate the capital. And of course you save on rent but have to pay property taxes and maintenance.

Most people who invest in real estate should leverage otherwise you are taking away one of the more valuable reasons to real estate invest.

If someone offered you 100K at a 3% rate that you can deduct the interests to invest in the market, I would think most people would jump at the change.

So why not put in 100K into a 400K home. If the home goes up 10% next yr, you have made a 40% return. If it goes up 50% in 10 years, you have a 200% return.

 

[kratos99]

Most people who invest in real estate should leverage otherwise you are taking away one of the more valuable reasons to real estate invest.

If someone offered you 100K at a 3% rate that you can deduct the interests to invest in the market, I would think most people would jump at the change.

So why not put in 100K into a 400K home. If the home goes up 10% next yr, you have made a 40% return. If it goes up 50% in 10 years, you have a 200% return.

But you can also leverage with stocks. (Take a HELOC
and buy an ETF.) To me investing in real estate comes with too many risks. I’m also not a handyman so tenants calling me to fix things isn’t my cup of tea. There are also too many transaction fees but biggest gripe is with lack of liquidity.

 

[Nocturnist]

But you can also leverage with stocks. (Take a HELOC
and buy an ETF.) To me investing in real estate comes with too many risks. I’m also not a handyman so tenants calling me to fix things isn’t my cup of tea. There are also too many transaction fees but biggest gripe is with lack of liquidity.

How does one leverage with a heloc? The bank will only give you a HELOC for an amount that is generally 75-80% of your EQUITY in the house. This is why you can't really get any meaningful one until many years into your mortgage. I'm not aware of any other such easily accessible/wide spread loan that allows nearly any average Joe to leverage 5x to sometimes even 33x their initial investment.