how much does cost of school affect your decision?

[gracietiger]

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the schools i am interested in are tufts, western, uc davis, csu, and maybe penn.

however, i can't help but wonder if i am crazy for even considering tufts, western and penn, as they would be about twice as much per year to attend.
i am really, really interested in tufts due to its selective courses, especially the ones that deal with animals and public policy and/or law, which seems really unique to that vet school (i haven't found anything like that at any of the others). however, i definitely don't know if the opportunity to dive a little deeper into some intellectual topics i'm interested in would be worth 20,000 more a year. i am not sure if those selective programs "pay off" as i am not really sure what kinds of unique career options would be available to someone who took an additional course in vet school about animal law and policy. any thoughts?

what makes you guys, who decide to attend a private vet school or one out of state, decide that the extra 100,000 you might spend on tuition is worth it? why not try another, maybe two more, admission cycles at the state university? is there often just no choice? or are you guys selecting schools that you think are a better fit, as that is more important than the cost?
i guess, to me, it seems that a vet school is a vet school, and that i would be better off focusing on getting into my state-funded school (which would be uc davis). but i also realize, given uc davis' competitiveness, that may not even be an option. but i also want to know that when i graduate from vet school, i would have a lot of options to do what i wanted, not have to immediately usher into a private practice in order to repay debts.

the costs definitely seem overwhelming. i am so gravitated towards tuft's programs, for example, but it's hard to know if a .5 or 1 credit course is worth all that money!

 

[DocDVMD]

No other option besides out of state 😀 I don't think the difference between schools is enough to justify spending a huge amount of money more (plus interest), but since my only options were OOS, I was able to consider each program and decide which I liked better for various reasons. If I were you, I'd shoot for Davis-it's a fantastic school!

 

[DollyyLlama]

here's a thread on this topic called "justifying out of state vet school"

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=602391

and another called "debt load"

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=606540

Cost of school should definitely affect your decision of where to attend, and it should be one of several factors in choosing where to apply. Like you said, Davis is very competitive, so private schools might give you better odds.

 

[StillDreaming]

UC Davis is a great school, and you should definitely strongly consider other courses and program sturcture when deciding. Money, is definitely a factor.

But from someone who picked Tufts over their IS school, the overall program (not just a few selectives course) were a better program for me to learn. I did receive some grants that made Tufts A LOT cheaper than the price for those who don't get funding, but it was still slightly more expensive than my in-state. It may be worth applying to Tufts, and then proceeding with the Financial Aid application to see if you can get any help in making it cheaper. However, if you will be paying the entire price, then it may not be worth it. But this is not something others can answer for you. Moving across the country can be an awesome new experience, and you can get to see a totally different environment, and the selectives courses may be great for you, but is it worth the extra money? No one can answer this but you.

For me. Had I not received any grants from Tufts, I would be going to my in-state, but because i was lucky enough to receive this money i chose Tufts. If you have any questions for specifics on what i like about tufts, and my whole decision process then just PM me, i am more than willing to help.

GOOD LUCK!

 

[flyhi]

This topic has been debated over and over again, but I think as StillDreaming mentioned, it comes down to being a very personal decision.

You asked why an applicant that didn't get into their IS wouldn't just apply 2 or 3 times more to IS before going to OOS. In reality, this can be a very difficult decision when you are accepted to OOS but not IS. You are then forced with the decision of turning down a definite for the unknown of what may happen the following cycle. You may not get into any schools the following year, or a different OOS that is even more expensive and perhaps a less appealing OOS than what you originally had.

You could apply to just your IS for a couple of cycles (some people do this) and then broaden your scope if you don't get in.

 

[gracietiger]

thanks so much for the insight guys.

i hope it didn't seem like i was implying that people who choose or chose to attend an out of state, or private, veterinary school were doing something "wrong" by that rather than applying several times to their in state choice. when i re-read my post, i realized it might have seemed that i was somehow judging people for choosing a more expensive school or for not being able to get into their in state.
i was really just curious as to why, if people could get into their in state, they might choose otherwise. how much the benefits of particular programs outweigh a heftier bill. obviously, if a person is passionate about attending veterinary school and does not get accepted into their in state, but does get accepted to another school, then that is certainly a better choice than declining vet school altogether. and being as how davis is a competitive school, and my state school, i might very well not even have the option of attending my in-state school.
so i wanted to clarify that so it doesn't seem like i am judging those who didn't consider the cost of school as their main factor.
i am really just curious as to the thoughts on how much a school's atmosphere, programs and location outweigh it's possibly greater costs. i am also curious if the debt incurred at the end of school significantly dictates what a recent grad decides to do afterwards. i wonder if it is better to pay a ton more to complete a more personally fitting program, or if it is better to have less debt at the end of school so i can embark on a more personally fitting career choice? or do students find that they can pursue any option that they want despite their debt? i mean, really, it's not like there is a huge amount of difference between 100 and 150,000 at the end of the day.

i really appreciate the insight. i'll have to search more carefully for older posts about this topic. i realize that the decision is very personal, but it's still hard!

 

[sumstorm]

In addition, tuition generally continues to increase each year, making the total cost potentially higher, especially if you include lost income as a vet.

I am actually delighted that I got into my IS and that it is (I believe) the cheapest vet school in the country. I would have had a much harder time if I had only gained admissions to an OOS school. I should note that I was living, previously, in NJ where all schools are OOS, and then NY, but my husband was offered a job in several other states (same job, various 'home base' locations) and we intetionally opted to move to a state where I had a good chance of gaining admissions (I am a non-trad with most of my pre-reqs taken over 7 years ago.) Sometimes relocating just makes more sense.

Having said that, even though we have the money to pay out of pocket for any of the schools, we are pretty frugal. We like to have the options that reserving money provides, such as potentially purchasing a practice earlier, or the option to relocate across country upon graduation, or travel, or the ability of my husband to retire earlier (he is older.) This frugality also enabled us to purchase a home near the vet school that is at an amazingly low price due to needing updates (cash) that will cost a fraction of the value it will add, without selling our current home/land. Other examples of this include us taking in housemates both in school and at our regular home. Our current home is convertable to a B & B. We both grew up in pretty poor families, and we like having money 'just in case' along with the ability to have and share amazing experiences.

Either way, I will graduate with a DVM. BTW, I read something recently on NCSU's website that sounds like it would be up your alley in terms of ethics & public policy, but I don't remember Exactly what it was. When I get a chance, I will look it up again.

 

[sumstorm]

i am really just curious as to the thoughts on how much a school's atmosphere, programs and location outweigh it's possibly greater costs. i am also curious if the debt incurred at the end of school significantly dictates what a recent grad decides to do afterwards. i wonder if it is better to pay a ton more to complete a more personally fitting program, or if it is better to have less debt at the end of school so i can embark on a more personally fitting career choice? or do students find that they can pursue any option that they want despite their debt? i mean, really, it's not like there is a huge amount of difference between 100 and 150,000 at the end of the day.

$50,000 plus interest over the life of the debt is significant and is a huge difference in my opinion.

$100,000 with a 10y schedule = ~$1,150/mo & ~$138,100 total
$100,000 with a 30y schedule = ~$652/mo & ~$234,690 total
$150,000 with a 10y schedule = ~$1,726/mo & ~$207,145 total
$150,000 with a 30y schedule = ~$978/mo & ~$352,038 total

Now, maybe I am crazy, but there is a big difference in those numbers, especially the total cost of the education including interest. Actually, the minimal difference is more than my first house cost.

That does not mean it isn't worth it for some people, just that I really hate hearing anyone say it isn't significant or large.

Anyways, I have talked with several vets who opted not to specialize and/or pursue internships/residency due to their debt load coming out of vet school. They didn't feel like they could afford to delay repayment or take the lower initial income. All were bright, intelligent people who could explain how it would have benefited them, financially and otherwise, to complete a residency. several were dissatisfied with thier choice of career because they felt like they were drowning in debt that wasn't compensated by the amount of income they could generate, and several were feeling the effects of the current economy. None of these individuals were living lavishly.

Opportunity costs.

 

[StillDreaming]

I agree with sumstorm (and was on some level, that person that said it shouldn't be a factor only a few months ago). But looking at the repayment schedules are total amount repaid (like she put on her post) makes you realize it is a big deal and shouldn't be the DECIDING factor, but should definitely be a factor when deciding and waying out the pros and cons. There is a VERY big difference between 100,000 and 150,000, look at the numbers and use the fin aid calculators, it's pretty scary those numbers.

As for the internship/residency aspect. You can still go on and participate in these programs as your loans are defered (as if you are in school) but interested still adds up for all but subsidized loans and one or two others, so thats an addition 1-4 years of interest. Its a personal choice once again if you choose to take the low income and added interest for those 4 years, for the possibility (depending on the specialty) of a higher income potential.

As for your question "i wonder if it is better to pay a ton more to complete a more personally fitting program, or if it is better to have less debt at the end of school so i can embark on a more personally fitting career choice? " It's probably better than picking a personally fitting career choice. So what you need to consider is will the school that is more personally fitting provide you with the opportunities that will offer you a more personally fitting career choice, or is the end the same for both schools, just a more 'interesting' 4 years of vet school? Again, personal choice.

 

[jglovicz]

the schools i am interested in are tufts, western, uc davis, csu, and maybe penn.

i guess, to me, it seems that a vet school is a vet school, and that i would be better off focusing on getting into my state-funded school (which would be uc davis). but i also realize, given uc davis' competitiveness, that may not even be an option.

Sorry, I just can't overlook this. CSU, UPenn, and Tufts are all super competitive...(not just Davis). Just thought I'd throw it out there. My two cents are to apply to schools that you would consider going to (ie, only apply to your IS if that's the only seat you'd accept for your first application cycle, or apply to all of the above). I think there is a benefit in casting a wide net (I applied to tons of schools this cycle) because then you have options (to me, it was worth it to consider OOS schools rather than applying several more times without a guarantee that I'd get into my IS). Good luck!

 

[bunnity]

Yeah like jglovicz said the schools you mentioned can be really hard to get into OOS. I think Penn has something like 60 OOS seats for 1,250 OOS applicants, so that means about 5% of OOS applicants get seats at Penn (whereas in-state is more like 20%). Of course not everyone who is accepted actually goes there, but I don't think their OOS waitlist moves much. Since your in-state is so competitive, it might be worth also applying to schools that have better OOS acceptance rates. Not to say you can't get into the schools you mentioned - I don't know your stats or anything - but it is something to consider. Someone had a spreadsheet on here of OOS acceptance rates - does anyone remember who had it?

 

[DVMorBust]

There's two completely different questions here - 1. What is it worth to go to vet school, and 2. Given the choice, what makes School B worth paying more for. As has been said, they're both extremely personal decisions.

In terms of deciding where to apply, the best piece of advice I can give is to take each school on your list, and really consider every angle. If this was the ONLY school you got into, would you go?

Obviously things can change after applying (family emergencies, relationships starting or ending, win the lottery, etc.), and even after getting in. A huge part of my initial decision was purely based on finances (Tufts vs. Wisconsin, my instate), and was made, somewhat reluctantly, before I got in to WI ('if I get in to WI, I'm going there'). It wasn't my top choice when I applied - but then I got in, and went to see the program and absolutely fell in love with it. I probably would have picked WI over Tufts even if they were both the same price.

Does this have a point? I guess just that you're not going to know if a school will or won't be a good fit until you actually visit and get a feel for the environment, which may or may not be feasible and is, unfortunately, completely impossible to get a feel for without being there. Try to do enough research beforehand so that you're not faced with a 'I only got into x really expensive school, and now I don't think it's worth it' situation.

 

[gracietiger]

wow, you all make such wonderful points. i reread some old posts about this topic and realize it's a very invoking subject. thank you all so much.

i completely agree that there is quite a big difference between 100 and 150,000. i don't have debt now, nor have i ever lived with it, so i guess it's easy to think of debt as debt, and if it's pushing 100,000, what's an extra 50 grand? but i see now that is a really silly line of reasoning. i can see arguments as to why the extra 50, 100 grand would be worth it, but i also see how much of a difference that truly is. i did not mean to trivialize such a large amount of money. i'll be going to vet school with basically nothing, so i don't want to seem like some snob who won't feel a difference between tens of thousands of dollars.

the reason i asked this question was because as of now, i really am only considering the schools i listed. really, when it comes time for me to apply, i actually think i would only seriously consider davis, western, and csu. maybe tufts. maybe. so yes, i am totally limiting myself. but truthfully, i would have to be told by these admissions committees that i will never get into these schools for me to consider another. my location is something that is very important to me, so i'm more willing to try three or four years than i am to move somewhere that i don't really want to. my academics are strong, so i'm hoping that at some point in the next several years, one of these schools would let me in!

you guys have raised so many good points to consider. thank you so much for sharing. it is so interesting to read about how people come to make their decisions, because you are all right in that this kind of decision is very personal. so no one makes a right or wrong decision, but it seems that the financial issue was a strong consideration for everyone. it's very difficult to decide how much of an influence it should play in choosing schools!

 

[supermouse786]

hmm cost did not play into where i applied at all... i'm more concerned about getting the education i want..

if you are concerned about cost you may want to consider some schools that allow you to become a resident after one year and then pay instate tuition... many states (kansas and colorado) are changing their rules and not allowing OOS students to become residents and pay instate tuition while enrolled.....

ps. csu is $44/year which i think is more than western and around the same as tufts i believe

 

[david594]

many states (kansas and colorado) are changing their rules and not allowing OOS students to become residents and pay instate tuition while enrolled.....

I dont think that is a new thing with either of those schools.

I turned down my PEI interview based almost 100% on cost reasons. A small shift in exchange rate could have made the extra $20k for an education there an extra $80k and that wasn't a risk I was willing to take. Once I got into Ohio I withdrew my app from Michigan based sheerly on the large price difference.

I plan to do a SA internship and hopefully residency and I really think my prospects for both of those will have far more to do with how I do in school as opposed to where I go. So I would rather avoid incurring any unnecessary debt in the process.

 

[sumstorm]

hmm cost did not play into where i applied at all... i'm more concerned about getting the education i want..

When people say this, I am always curious.... what are you studying that the majority of vet schools couldn't provide suitable, quality education?

For the most part, I was limited by the age of my undergrad pre-reqs, so I had an easier list to work off of than a lot of people.

 

[gracietiger]

this may change the subject quite a bit, but it came to my mind as i was reading through this post. it seems a lot of people would agree that i'm basically shooting myself in the foot by being so limited in my options. however, sumstorm, you also said that you were quite limited as well.

i am wondering what everyone's take is on applying to only a couple of schools, maybe even one, and how that would affect an admissions committee's decision? like if i ONLY applied to davis? i have heard that the admissions committees know that you have no other options, so it's really easy for them to deny you, knowing you'll just have to try again later. but at some point, does applying only to that school, even if multiple times, indicate a committment to that school and location?

i think that davis would be the best option for me. i live here in davis, my boyfriend has a great job here, i like it here and it's a great school with strong programs in my interest. perfect for me, no, but i think it'd be really great. so come time for me to apply to davis, should i apply to others just so i appear open to many other schools, or do i only apply to davis so that they know i'm serious about it?

 

[DollyyLlama]

I think that unless you're sure that you would refuse an acceptance from every other school even if you didn't get into Davis (that is, you would rather not go at all than not go to Davis), apply to other schools. Many applicants have a dream school, but are willing to go to the one that accepts them. Applicants also change their minds about schools as they go through the process, take a closer look at what's offered, maybe visit the school, are holding an acceptance in their hands- so yes, if you look at the Successful Applicants thread, some did apply to only one or two schools, but personally I am glad that I applied to more because my first choice (also Davis) didn't pan out.

 

[sumstorm]

So, my goal was my IS, which I am glad I was accepted at.

My criteria for paying to apply (since that does cost $):
1) must be able to apply without re-taking pre-reqs
2) must be eligible (have suitable pre-reqs) with my previous college attendance and the classes I took this year (2 business, biochem, genetics, animal nutrition)
3) must have at least a reasonable offering in wildlife/zoo medicine (because I am not willing to rule those areas out of my potential future yet

Using those guidelines, I narrowed down my options. Some were really easy to rule out (ie grades must be from the past 5 years, biochem must include a lab, GPA must be above X, etc.)

I then ONLY applied to schools where I was willing to move AND/OR my husband might potentially be able to obtain work in the next couple of years. I don't think it is worth applying if I am not willing to make the move if it comes up....and I think that would be hard to explain on future apps (I didn't take the opportunity because I never really wanted to move.) When I first started to plan an application to vet school, my game plan was to have at least one 'low cost' school in the mix (at the time I was in NY) and that school was still NC.

If I didn't have those limitation, a different limitation I might have considered was whether I could acquire IS tuition after a year.

I personally wouldn't be comfortable applying on only one school, but I know quite a few people who only applied to NCSU (and never got in, after several applications.) So some people do. But I wouldn't waste the effort/time/energy if I knew there wasn't a chance I would attend the school.

 

[bunnity]

i am wondering what everyone's take is on applying to only a couple of schools, maybe even one, and how that would affect an admissions committee's decision? like if i ONLY applied to davis? i have heard that the admissions committees know that you have no other options, so it's really easy for them to deny you, knowing you'll just have to try again later. but at some point, does applying only to that school, even if multiple times, indicate a committment to that school and location?

I only applied to Penn and that didn't come up in the interview. I'm not sure if that section of the VMCAS is available to the ad-com; I would be interested to know if it was. I kind of doubt that the school would deny you on the basis that you wouldn't be able to go somewhere else - I feel like they either want you or they don't, and there is no guarantee that you would re-apply or re-apply to that particular school (for example you could move and it would no longer be your in-state). The other thing is even if they knew where you applied, they wouldn't know where you were accepted or how many options (if any) you had.

Oh I should point out that Penn was my in-state and so I had a fighting chance of getting in - would have been very different situation if I had lived somewhere else.

 

[jglovicz]

I don't think any vet school would look (or care) if you applied to 1 school or all of them. To be honest, there are so many other criteria to base their decisions...I know a lot of people will apply to only one or two schools their first application cycle with the plan that they will apply to more after another app cycle.

 

[IvyLynx]

Applying to only one school is fine, but I don't understand why you would unless 1) you were severely financially crunched and/or 2) that's the only school you would attend if offered attendance. Unfortunately Davis doesn't accept transfers, otherwise I would suggest you consider that as a possibility.

 

[ckgilabert]

People who know me know that i was always the one that said "it doesnt matter how much your debt is if you're doing what you love or what you've dreamed of doing".

I'm the type that has taken all loans that i possible can during undergrad so that i could focus on school and be part of clubs and have the free time that I want.

so after saying that....i'm already a little over $30,000 in debt.

and after saying that....i'm REALLY grateful that I got into the vet prep program at colorado and I'll be paying in-state tuition for vet school.


BUT...if i didnt get that opportunity...i would've still gone after my dream no matter what the cost.

 

[Caninerepro]

I think there are very valid arguments for both going to the low cost/IS school, and looking at a more expensive but more suitable program OOS. Had I gotten into my IS (CSU) I would have stayed here with bells on -- b/c CSU has always been my #1 school -- it is why I came here to establish residency and get my BS & MS. That said, I also applied to several OOS schools, and got into a few of them. In the end I felt the opportunity to graduate a year or two earlier and get out to making money was a better financial return than waiting for an IS slot at a lower tuition cost. In my case I felt that was better for me. I am fortunate to no longer have a wife or job to affect my decisions.

I have also not chosen the least expensive of the schools I got into (nor the most expensive), because once again my chosen school (MN) is the best fit for me. I feel in my case the better earning potential I would have from the specialized training I would have access to there would more than reimburse me for the added tuition cost up front. Now, if all you want is a DVM, or none of your schools are more strong in your field than the others, then by all means go for the low cost provider, a DVM really is just a DVM wherever you get it from. Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[Angelo84]

Just a comment on interviews and applying to multiple schools. The schools you apply to are seen by the ad comm. I found this out during an interview when I was asked why I was applying to penn when tufts would probably accept me. This threw me for a bit of a loop--I had thought that section of VMCAS wasn't seen by the schools and I was surprised that they assumed I would get into tufts. I was also asked at that interview (Penn) why I applied to Iowa and Illinois. In several interviews I was asked if I had heard from other schools as far as interview/acceptance. I think it does impact their decision at least in part.

 

[sumstorm]

People who know me know that i was always the one that said "it doesnt matter how much your debt is if you're doing what you love or what you've dreamed of doing".

But if your dream eventually includes things like having a clinic of your own, the debt you accumulate now may prohibit you from obtaining credit later on. Well, I guess there are a lot of other things that debt could prohibit (living where you want, owning a home, etc), but that is a big one for me and one I see a lot of people forget to consider...that and if they will be able to afford the time of lower earnings to complete internships/residencies.