How much does undgr school name matter?

[Monkeymaniac]

Advertisement - Members don't see this ad

.

 

[braluk]

one major reasons why those kids got into medical school is because they were superstars to begin with to get into those schools, and probably had the same drive/ambition all throughout college to continue to do extraordinary things extracurricularly to stand out from the rest of the crowd. What alot of schools look for in terms of namesake, at least based on heresay, is how successful your current school is when it comes to producing students who are accepted into medical school, how difficult it is, how you stack up to the rest of the students in your school, and if they have any official ties to them (i guess here is where namesake will help). If you have an top 5 school in the nation produce the best lawyers in the country, and the best engineers and researchers, but leaves much to be desired in their premedical studies program, and another school which is nowhere on the top 50 but produces many students that get into medical school, you can bet that medical schools might raise an eyebrow at the latter. In the end, I think that being from any relatively decent US accredited college shoudn't play too much into the big picture, as long as you are making your education and experience noteworthy.

 

[BigRedPremed]

The simple answer is that it matters some but not as much as you think.

 

[Jimmydix]

Going to a top 10 school has sincerly hurt my chances of getting in....An admissions counselor told me "you went to the toughest school in the country, but your GPA is still in the lowest tier of matriculants"...no $hit.....i would of rather gone to the worst school in the country and got a 4.0.....STATS mean more than ever with all the applicants applying

 

[LizzyM]

One problem with schools such as U of I Urbana Champaigne is that the classes are so very big that it is difficult for a faculty member to get to know a student well enough to write a really informative and flattering LOR. These letters are commonplace from Ivies & top tier schools where seminars are taught in small groups and senior faculty members are more likely to know students as more than a name in the gradebook.

 

[biggoron42]

i dont think it is a big deal...i also attend state u, and i've found a lot of research opps, community service projects, etc. while also receiving a solid pre-med base (honestly general chemistry is general chemistry everywhere). and you'll find less competition for these resources, because there are less of the "gunner premeds" you find at ivy u.

as for the problems with big classes, at OU we have honors sections capped at 19 students for all the giant lecture courses, so motivated students can escape those sinkholes; i am confident most other well known state universities have honors colleges and honors courses as well. in addition upper division courses and independent research offer a great avenue for faculty interaction...

i've been semi-successful so far in this cycle, and whenever i go to the big league ivy interviews and see people who paid 200k for their undergrad education, i silently have a little chuckle...

 

[dakta]

All good thoughts here. Admissions committees know schools very, VERY well. They know the undergraduate premedical advisors and/or committee members, and they know who's recommendations they can trust and whose they can't. Ivy League schools' letter-writers are usually well-known. That said, many state school programs are known, too, and state medical schools know the advisers at their state undergrad institutions. Some of the ivy league schools are also bad about grade inflation, and we (admissions committee members) are aware of those programs, too.

Just do your best wherever you are. You'll get an interview with a quality application. Then the committee can get down to who you are during your visit.

Best of luck!

 

[Stolenspatulas]

Everyone will say its not a big deal.

For top tier schools... its VERY MUCH a big deal.

On the interview circuit at top schools it really seems like everyone I've met has come from Yale, Harvard, MIT, Stanford, Duke, UChicago, Columbia, etc. Very rarely have I seen people from other schools (maybe like ~15% of interviewees).

I think there are a few schools that do like taking people outside of top undergrads and pride themselves in doing so (one is Hopkins, which boasts representation for I think 50+ schools for their 120 students).

If you look at the students that go to top schools you will see for the most part that they are all from the Ivies and other top schools.

This does not mean, of course, that its impossible to get into a top school from a relatively unknown undergrad... its just that you'll have more to prove (probably mean your gpa will be less respected and your mcat will be depended upon more).

***If you just want to go to A medical school.. I dont think it matters as much... but if you want to go to a top medical school, i think it matters a lot.

 

[braluk]

Good point, but I also think, again, that it has to do something with the type of student that top schools admit in the first place. I couldn't possibly imagine how another top school might favorably look another top school that may have had histories of grade inflation and still look at GPA objectively over another lesser known school's better track record of hard to obtain high GPAs. I think its because the students that have been accepted at top universities are a unique type of student that accomplishes things much differently at other universities, the types of students which might even be called gunners had their placement been different- after all, they are la creme de la creme. I can also imagine it has alot to do with connections- letter writers and committee letters at these schools are probably written by people who also graduated from other top universities/medical schools, which end up having more clout if written by accomplished alumni above all else.

 

[LifetimeDoc]

Once you are admitted to medical school, very little. 🙄

 

[ColumbiaGuy]

I graduated from a less known state school in California and was told by the admissions director of a certain New York medical school that my 3.6 GPA is not that impressive considering the school I went to. I actually got denied an interview while talking to her and this is the only reason that she gave me (She really ripped it apart). I am not a top tier applicant but I think that I should at least be considered in the running (MCAT 31).

 

[FutureLegend05]

I am going to University of Illinois at Urbana Champaign, and
I am currently majoring in computer science. I recently realized while
I was surfing MDapplicants.com that most of people who got into
top-tier medical schools graduated from IVY, and other top-tier
undergraduate schools. So I am worried as hell about this.

Engineering college at UIUC is descent but the university as a whole
is not considered a prestigious school. Would the fact that I'm in
engineering school help?, of course, other factors like GPA and MCAT being
pretty descent. How much would the fact that I'm a student from
UIUC hurt in admission process?

I would appreciate for your comments.

In my opinion, it's good for the initial impression and it compliments your GPA if it's higher than average. Other than that, it's a pretty level playing field.

 

[bigdan]

I went to Utica College - maybe as low as you can go on the totem pole, and got into all 8 medical schools I applied at. So school name isn't the be all and end all.

But some medical schools - mine for example - have a list of undergrad schools that are considered in a different way than all other undergrads, in that they are notoriously difficult to get high GPAs at. Better said, a 3.9 at Utica is NOT a 3.9 from Duke or Princeton.

dc

 

[OrthoJock]

Illinois will not hold you back.

 

[HumbleMD]

People on this board love to tell you that undergrad school doesn't matter at all. You may want to check where they are from and what medical schools they were accepted to before taking their advice to heart. Coming from an upper-middle school, I feel I'm placed somewhere in the middle so my opinion isn't too biased one way or the other. In my humble opinion, it very much matters, as I can't say I speak to many students from lesser known schools at the really prestigious interviews. A genius who attends a lesser school should of course excel anywhere and will probably get into some good schools, but undergrad name and reputation certainly helps. You don't want to have to make excuses for where you go (as I did at my UPenn interview).

But, for some more objective advice (as you should always take SDN's advice with a grain of salt), take a look at some of the more prestigious university's webpages for where their matriculants come from, and I'll tell you now you don't see that many random tiny state schools.

 

[Dookter]

But, for some more objective advice (as you should always take SDN's advice with a grain of salt), take a look at some of the more prestigious university's webpages for where their matriculants come from, and I'll tell you now you don't see that many random tiny state schools.

This question has been beaten to death on SDN. One thing though: you cannot look at school webpages and conclude that the tiny state schools held students back and prevented them from getting into top schools. The students at those schools are by and large NOT Ivy L material. I went to the University of Tennessee, and absolutely no more than a handful of students in the entire school would be material for top medical schools. This would be the case before top medical schools even knew where they went to college. It has nothing to do with the "UT" on the transcript. It has to do with everything else on the application. And the handful that ARE top medical school material usually end up at top medical schools. There is no way to look at the stats out there and conclude anything. If you rock, medical schools will see it and let you in. If not, they will also see that. The name value of the top undergrads does help. But honestly, the fact that a lot of the kids you meet on the interview trail from these schools are VERY good applicants has a lot more to do with it.

 

[MonkeyNuts!]

Going to a top 10 school has sincerly hurt my chances of getting in....An admissions counselor told me "you went to the toughest school in the country, but your GPA is still in the lowest tier of matriculants"...no $hit.....i would of rather gone to the worst school in the country and got a 4.0.....STATS mean more than ever with all the applicants applying

Totally agree. I got screwed in a similar fashion. Not to complain, because everyone has their own road to medical school, but still it would have been nice to go right after college. Not that 2 years matters in the long run, but hey I ain't getting no younger.

 

[NervousNed]

I am going to University of Illinois at Urbana Champaign, and
I am currently majoring in computer science. I recently realized while
I was surfing MDapplicants.com that most of people who got into
top-tier medical schools graduated from IVY, and other top-tier
undergraduate schools. So I am worried as hell about this.

Engineering college at UIUC is descent but the university as a whole
is not considered a prestigious school. Would the fact that I'm in
engineering school help?, of course, other factors like GPA and MCAT being
pretty descent. How much would the fact that I'm a student from
UIUC hurt in admission process?

I would appreciate for your comments.

hold on computer science at uiuc is amongst the top 5 in the nation! uiuc is more than descent, its computer science program is in the league of stanfrod mit, berkley...you'll be fine, a low gpa at uiuc is justified, as it is also a school that doesnt boost gpas

 

[Monkeymaniac]

Thanks for your help guys!

 

[Darksmurf]

i dont think it is a big deal...i also attend state u, and i've found a lot of research opps, community service projects, etc. while also receiving a solid pre-med base (honestly general chemistry is general chemistry everywhere). and you'll find less competition for these resources, because there are less of the "gunner premeds" you find at ivy u.

You're right that it's not a big deal if you have a 38 MCAT and a 3.8 SGPA, as you have.

Everyone will say its not a big deal.

For top tier schools... its VERY MUCH a big deal.

I can't agree more. If you look at the first through fourth year students and their colleges at Yale, Columbia, and Cornell at least, you will find almost every 9 out of 10 come from Ivys or school in the same league as the Ivys (no pun intended) such as Stanford, Duke, or (God-forbid) UChicago. That's not because they are the best applicants, because those kids are just kids, like everyone else. It's because their schools have a name, and that opens doors for them. Worth the dough? Probably not, unless daddy paid for it (which he probably did because he went to school there before you, made tons of cash because the name of the school opened doors, and got you into school as a legacy). The application cycle is not a strict meritocracy and schools with name-recognition have an advantage. Period.

In my opinion, it's good for the initial impression and it compliments your GPA if it's higher than average. Other than that, it's a pretty level playing field.

This is the opinion of a Harvard student who likes to think he/she earns everything he/she gets. It is utterly untrue when applying to med school at an 'elite' school. If you're not from an Ivy, your numbers have to be better. It's only a level-playing field for Princeton vs. Harvard vs. Yale vs. Stanford vs. Dartmouth vs. Brown etc. Well, okay, maybe not Brown, but the others.

hold on computer science at uiuc is amongst the top 5 in the nation! uiuc is more than descent, its computer science program is in the league of stanfrod mit, berkley...you'll be fine, a low gpa at uiuc is justified, as it is also a school that doesnt boost gpas

This comment completely misunderstands the issues. It is not a matter of academic rigor. It is a matter of parochial elitism and name cachet. Ivys favor Ivys as a sister would favor a brother. It's incestuous. The phenomenon we are talking about is probably in some ways subconscious. Say 'Harvard' to someone in Macon, Georgia or East LA and the connotation in either case is the same (as far as intelligence and academic prestige). That's not because those people have done their research, looked up where a particular college at those universities falls on the some arbitrary ranking list. They have been taught from infancy that God endowed Ivys and their cousins (Stanford, Duke, etc) with academic power. It's visceral, it's in people's bones. It has nothing to do with smaller classes so the professors know the students better (grad students do alot of the actual undergrad teaching anyway, especially at Harvard). There are small colleges all across this nation that field thousands of applicants, but they don't seem to be over-represented at 'elite' med schools.

The admissions committee is not going to look up where the computer science college of UIUC is ranked. And even if they did, it wouldn't mean anything to them because they are not computer scientists. But 'Princeton' means something to everyone.

Whoops. Got a little carried away. Chip now removed from shoulder.

 

[Dookter]

That's not because they are the best applicants, because those kids are just kids, like everyone else.

Your post contains a lot of truths. You carry them too far to represent the reality of the situation, but you still have some good points. One place where you're most wrong is with the statement I quoted. The kids I know personally from the Ivys really are exceptional students and were obviously exceptional applicants. They exceed anything I saw where I went to college. So the kids at all school are not the same. And this plays into the admissions process far more than the name of where they went to undergrad. And also, you might want to check your facts, but I do not see 9 out of 10 kids coming from schools like the ones you listed....

 

[Darksmurf]

Your post contains a lot of truths. You carry them too far to represent the reality of the situation, but you still have some good points. One place where you're most wrong is with the statement I quoted. The kids I know personally from the Ivys really are exceptional students and were obviously exceptional applicants. They exceed anything I saw where I went to college. So the kids at all school are not the same. And this plays into the admissions process far more than the name of where they went to undergrad. And also, you might want to check your facts, but I do not see 9 out of 10 kids coming from schools like the ones you listed....

I appreciate your comments, but respectfully dissent. Ivy kids are no better than the good students at any other Division I school in America. Those schools (Ivys and cousins) don't have many spots. Is it logical to suppose that the flawed vetting system used by the elite schools really gets the best applicants? No. When everyone and their dog scores 1500+ on the SAT, how can you differentiate them anyway? Factor in legacy (Bush went to Yale, remember). And what do you get? Smart kids that aren't any smarter than the smart kids at other schools. But they are treated as divine progeny. They are given the assumption of intelligence and accomplishment. And it's just flat out not true of them more than anyone at other schools. Are there brilliant, amazing kids at the Ivys? Of course. But they've got their share of stupid kids too. But those latter kids reap the ill-gotten rewards of title.

The more Ivys I meet, the more head-shaking I do.

 

[Dookter]

I appreciate your comments, but respectfully dissent. Ivy kids are no better than the good students at any other Division I school in America. Those schools (Ivys and cousins) don't have many spots. Is it logical to suppose that the flawed vetting system used by the elite schools really gets the best applicants? No. When everyone and their dog scores 1500+ on the SAT, how can you differentiate them anyway? Factor in legacy (Bush went to Yale, remember). And what do you get? Smart kids that aren't any smarter than the smart kids at other schools. But they are treated as divine progeny. They are given the assumption of intelligence and accomplishment. And it's just flat out not true of them more than anyone at other schools. Are there brilliant, amazing kids at the Ivys? Of course. But they've got their share of stupid kids too. But those latter kids reap the ill-gotten rewards of title.

The more Ivys I meet, the more head-shaking I do.

Now this post I mostly agree with. The problem with your point, though, is that you're talking about the smartest kids at all other schools vs. the Ivy kids. Of course there is no difference between them. And the smartest kids at the other schools DO get into top medical schools. But the Ivys [and schools like them] have MANY more genius kids than do most of the other schools out there. So when you add that in with the name value that you're talking about, you end up with tons of Ivy kids in top medical schools. I met plenty of smart people in college, but I'll admit I sometimes felt like I was swimming in a sea of *****s.

Before you said the Ivy kids were just like all other applicants. That is absolutely not the case. But when you add the disclaimer that you genius kids at other school are just like the genius kids at Ivy schools, well, yeah, duh.....

 

[indo]

People from purdue and Notre Dame seem to think they have a leg up on God.

 

[szhao]

yea go computer science, hehe love the major, hate the courses.

 

[Darksmurf]

Now this post I mostly agree with. The problem with your point, though, is that you're talking about the smartest kids at all other schools vs. the Ivy kids. Of course there is no difference between them. And the smartest kids at the other schools DO get into top medical schools. But the Ivys [and schools like them] have MANY more genius kids than do most of the other schools out there. So when you add that in with the name value that you're talking about, you end up with tons of Ivy kids in top medical schools. I met plenty of smart people in college, but I'll admit I sometimes felt like I was swimming in a sea of *****s.

Before you said the Ivy kids were just like all other applicants. That is absolutely not the case. But when you add the disclaimer that you genius kids at other school are just like the genius kids at Ivy schools, well, yeah, duh.....

I think we still differ on the matter of degree. I'm not talking genius kids at other schools, nor the smartest kids, but merely the smart kids. It's subtle, and I'm probably a semantic [expletive deleted] for insisting on it, but I think that the Ivys get much more credit than they deserve.

But we are probably in general agreement.